England post 2022 6Ns, Aus tour and beyond

First topic message reminder :

A few things whirling around my head and most start with the fact that Eddie is likely to remain in charge. There are probably a lack of available alternatives and the RFU won't want to fork out more money. Therefore, he is likely to remain in charge until the RWC 2023 is done. Bearing that in mind what are the positives and negatives?

Positives
We have some decent forwards for sure and the set piece should be fine. Underhill was terrific yesterday and I think a return to Curry and Underhill playing around a big 8 would be very handy. Dombrandt should be that man.
Our defence is excellent and the team spirit is clearly there.
We have loads of quality players who can hopefully return to fitness and form and add to the mix. All countries lose players and of course we have more resources than anyone bar France, but we will no doubt look completely different if Launchbury, Hill, Curry, Cowan-Dickie, Manu, May, Watson, Cockanasiga, Farrell are all fit and firing.
We have some foundations to build on and it is not Eddie's fault that we have not had Manu, or a decent replacement, available to add some power to our midfield.
There is enough time to fix many of these issues.

Negatives
Inconsistent selection
Inconsistent tactics and coaching team (too many coaching changes). Taking over from Lancaster Eddie was very clear on what to do. Restore England's traditional strengths in the set piece, defence and back it up with good kicking. Now we are totally confused as what we are trying to do.
The whole thing about playing players not in their best positions
Everyone is bored with Eddie's comments - we need less of him

Aus Tour
What a statement he made by winning 3-0 last time post a grand slam. Ruthless in taking off Burrell after 25 minutes. And they were missing Manu then as well and ended up with Ford, Farrell and Joseph so if we assume that Manu is unavailable then there is still hope. But we need players in their correct position and we need some consistency. Considering we don't have too many options at 12 and Slade is not really working out should we revert to Farrell? Not exactly a running beast, but at least he will be fresh and might just add some toughness. I would love to see Youngs left behind and to back 2 of our younger 9s. Genge, Dombrandt, Smith, Steward etc all need exposure to a tough away series.

Autumn
Based purely on form this is now the time to select the 23 Eddie sees as our strongest RWC team. All bets are off now and if a Mako or Bill V are playing well and showing the form and hunger to return then why not consider them. We might need then in the RWC group even if they are back ups to the regular starters. So maybe give them a game to see where they are? And then hopefully we can enjoy some consistent selection allied with a revamped game plan.

Anyone else hopeful that Eddie can resurrect the team and our RWC ambitions?

And not a single falcon lol

I would have put Ted Hill on the bench over Lawes.

Lawes is a class act, we know that..but Jones could have tested hill against a strong Baas Baas side.

And is he trying to play the wingers in to form...meh

GeordieFalcon wrote:And not a single falcon lol

I would have put Ted Hill on the bench over Lawes.

Lawes is a class act, we know that..but Jones could have tested hill against a strong Baas Baas side.

And is he trying to play the wingers in to form...meh

I agree about Hill, and I certainly don't think there is any benefit to Lawes getting a cameo against France A (oops, the Barbarians).

I think Nowell is there to
(a) cover the back line, more or less from 11-15.
(b) be able to show EJ whether he is truly in game shape and whether he should tour
(c) prevent a young'un from showing his stuff

I put Nowell in the same medical basket as Manu Tuilagi. Too many injuries without sustained time for proper recoveries. Take the summer off, son.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah despite his mini obsession with talking down Smith and proclaiming Ford as the best fly half in the world (think that's a bit click baity from Stephen Jones style) I do hope we sweep all before us on the way to world cup glory. I still think Gleeson will be feeling very uncomfortable in how quickly this change of attack is taking. Perfect summer foil though surely as it will be open, we should have the edge in the setpiece so it's all set for some exciting games; and frankly after the turgid last couple I'll be happy with that.

He's not alone in thinking the best flyhalf in England this season plays outside of London. Then again last season it was the other way round. Nice to have options at 10.

If things click in Australia that would certainly be good timing. I suspect we'll do well down there and maybe in the AIs as tend to, it's often the 6N we find the hardest.

I think he's very much in the minority who thinks George Ford is the best fly half in the world. It's almost his mini selling point now like Jones calling for Dave Attwood or Cooper-Wooley for England at any given opportunity. Ford is great to have as 3rd choice.

Ford is fantastic but Smith can offer things in attack that Ford can only dream of. Smith is the future.....we need to build around him. Ford is a great option after Smith, he's a cracking 10.

doctor_grey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:And not a single falcon lol

I would have put Ted Hill on the bench over Lawes.

Lawes is a class act, we know that..but Jones could have tested hill against a strong Baas Baas side.

And is he trying to play the wingers in to form...meh

I agree about Hill, and I certainly don't think there is any benefit to Lawes getting a cameo against France A (oops, the Barbarians).

I think Nowell is there to
(a) cover the back line, more or less from 11-15.  
(b) be able to show EJ whether he is truly in game shape and whether he should tour
(c) prevent a young'un from showing his stuff

I put Nowell in the same medical basket as Manu Tuilagi.  Too many injuries without sustained time for proper recoveries.  Take the summer off, son.  

Nowell has managed 1296 minutes of rugby already this season for Chiefs and England. Pretty decent that.

And scored 3 tries in that time...

Personally think he's a bit lucky to be involved in front of guys like Radwan, OHC, Murley etc who have genuinely performed at various points during the club season.

I know he's got credit in the bank and I've been a big fan of him in the past, but it's been a while since he looked like a truly top level wing.

That's one hell of a back row for a Baabaas game!

Atkinson, Cokanasiga and Freeman is more hard carrying than we've had in the backs recently. It may well be needed with the relative lack of carriers in the pack though.

It's an absolutely rapid back three in contrast to several Six Nations ones.

Really great to see Curry, Underhill and Willis in the same 23. The sort of players who should continuously push the others to improve.

Just watching the prem final. Earls and Billy v looking quite good. Freddie looks so solid and strong at the back. I hope chessum keeps coming on as looks so much better than Ewels.

Earl is a quality player...

Wouldn't have him over any of Underhill, Curry and Willis (if he were bumped to 7) though.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Earl is a quality player...

Fantastic player. Offers a lot more in attack than any of our other flankers. He seems out in the cold but he'd be such a useful RWC squad member that I wouldn't be surprised if he featured in the warm-ups then forced his way in.

GeordieFalcon wrote:And not a single falcon lol

I would have put Ted Hill on the bench over Lawes.

Lawes is a class act, we know that..but Jones could have tested hill against a strong Baas Baas side.

And is he trying to play the wingers in to form...meh

They must have heard you. Late injury withdrawal by Dombrandt means Chick now starts at 8

England making a few silly mistakes.

And Randall tried....lol

Hhmm Collier subbed already

Wasn't sure the May knock-on was deliberate ...

England look like a scratch side but the Barbarians do not. Hmmm.

Yep not pretty ... the point about the pre-latch seems valid - thought that wasn't allowed now or is it only if two or more pre-latch?

Best thing about Englands try was the determination by Jonny May to race across to get involved.

Two intercept tries now

Why chick over barbeary? Randell looks a shadow of himself. Mark Atkinson, oh dear. Our props look awful and our hooker is anonymous. Why Ewels? Hasn't done anything in 40 mins. Has an international coach ever lost his job after losing against a 14 man scratch side?

Harry Randall not having a game.

But there is still something special about seeing the Barbarians jerseys out there.

If Dombrandt is out and Simmonds already out, I wonder if Billy Vuniploa will get a place tomorrow? Either him or Barbeary must be involved for the main summer tour now. I agree Chick, Ewels, Atkinson and the whole front row look poor. Rodd has been disappointing.

Pretty underwhelming so far. Really inaccurate from England. The line-out seems to fluff up every time we are in a threatening postion. They seem to be about as much of a scratch team as Barbarians.

I appreciate that Smith is trying things out of the box, but I wish he would stop kicking the ball away when we are in threatening positions.

Thought Skelton could also have got a yellow/ red for a similar challenge he made really early on, needless.

Lots to work on in this half.

Why do we keep playing so much inside/ just outside of our 22? It is really unnecessary and we inevitably knock it on...

Painful to watch ...

This is absolutely pathetic...

England are awful

Better - now do it another 5 times ...

Good try, now bloody play territory off the effing kickoff!

Smith is leaving too many points on the pitch...

I can't watch this any more.
Going out to play Sunday Touch Rugby. Will watch the rest of the match later when I get home and stop retching.

England are world class....

What are they doing???? Stop playing in the 22!

Ps Who's at 8

And by the way, the red jerseys look like poop.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ps Who's at 8

Callum Chick marra.

Curry moved to 8 I think

in touch - just

but given .... hmmm

Clearly in touch, but the TMO didn't even check the third angle.

Ben Whitehouse ... two duff calls so far ...

Cumbrian wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ps Who's at 8

Callum Chick marra.

Nah he'd gone off mate

Was he totally in control of thay ball aswell?

Yeah, it was a rubbish call, but why were they even in that position? England have played this game like idiots.

The French Fijians have bossed this game

GeordieFalcon wrote:Was he totally in control of thay ball aswell?

Ooops, must have missed that!

Yay scored another try, we'll now go and drop the ball on out own line again...

Is that 9 points Smith has missed? Can't have that against the Wallabies...

FFS - how many conversions is he going to miss?

woeful ...

We're getting stuffed by 14 men, and a lot of it is down to really crap decision making.