Glasgow and Edinburgh 28 and Counting - The banter goes on!

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28 and counting, where do we get the energy!

Another Glasgow re-signing coming up this afternoon, following on from the White Rhino, the animal theme is hinted at again. Who could that be?

Ancient history:

https://www.606v2.com/t70348p1000-glasgow-and-edinburgh-unceasing-banter-thread-27#4033843

Tramptastic wrote:It's the nature of Scotland as a country, there's often a push to emigrate and see the world when you are young and folk often travel but end up settling down abroad - doesnt make them or their kids any less scottish, its often up to the individual.

It's also worth a chuckle or two when you see  an Ozzie or all blacks side that feature players such as Angus Scott-Young, Fraser McReight, Jake McDermott, Angus Bell or Finlay Christie. Those names juxtaposed against their respective accents should spin the head of those who see nationality purely as a place of birth or blood and disregard those who make their home elsewhere or who have parents and grandparents who make a point of telling their kids "our home is here but it can also be There".

However, we very much have failings in our sports systems in Scotland. We end up with some elite level athletes and sport stars but the playing base, not just for rugby but sports in general, is shocking. Having a disproportionate level of high end athletes can often mask over systemic failings at grassroots sports levels.

I don't think names are anywhere near an indication of nationality any longer. I don't think they have been for decades else every Thomas, Williams, Evans and Jones would be Welsh qualified. Eddie Jones is many things, but Welsh qualified he is not.

Birthplace certainly isn't an indication of nationality and single nationality will, thankfully, become less and less prevalent in the modern world.

But my point on diaspora is as above. It's about the quality of the player.

Yes and No

Been a few cases recently. Redpath, Ashman and others who would have had a good shout at an England cap but choose Scotland.

Others have gone the other way, like Arundel and Bevan Rodd.

I don't see Scots prople stopping moving awsy from Scotland any time soon and the reasons people make choices about their careers remain complicated and personal.

I don't see much changing any time soon.

Sam Johnson broke his jaw playing the Sharks last weekend and will be out for 2-3 months apparently. Not a good start to the season for him.

The GI bug that caused Fagerson and Cancieliere to sit out the last game is apparently rampaging through the whole squad at the moment with over 10 players affected. That might explain a little bit of the drop off in performance last weekend towards the end of the game.

Glasgow had to do some negotiations with the SRU about which players could come home early as they were in the position where they might have struggled to get a team out this saturday.

Franco Smith visa situation is now resolved apparently but it may not be worth him flying down now and they don't want him to catch the lurgy either.

It sounds like it has been a pretty difficult trip down south for the warriors.

Jeez that doesn't sound good. Could end up a humping this weekend.

Hearing that Javan Sebastian may be leaving us to head north to one of your sides.

Oakdene wrote:Hearing that Javan Sebastian may be leaving us to head north to one of your sides.

Edinburgh by the sound of things. Replacement for the venerable WP Nel

Will be good for his Scotland ambitions to be up north

BigGee wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Hearing that Javan Sebastian may be leaving us to head north to one of your sides.

Edinburgh by the sound of things. Replacement for the venerable WP Nel

Will be good for his Scotland ambitions to be up north

Has developed really well to be fair to the lad. He was ridiculed when he first played for is due to his size.

Decent enough at club level. I thought he was incredibly sloppy in his last Scarlets game, then he was subsequently dropped.

Just saw that Kunivalu has left to join Brive. He turned into a really good player at Edinburgh but understandably is looking for more gametime. With the depth of the Edinburgh backrow that's been a real issue.

Glasgow game postponed due to the GI bug in the camp.

That's another trip down south for the boys later in the season then.

I wonder how this might effect Toonie's plans as well.

Wes Goosen finally making his debut

Matches Off:
Gala 2nds v Peebles 2nds - Peebles 2nds
Melrose Storm v Boroughmuir 2nds
Gala YM v Edinburgh University Medics
Hawick Force v Stew-Mel 2nds
All away teams cannot raise a team

That's a pretty depressing sign of the times in Scottish club rugby that major clubs like Muir and Stew Mel cannot even put out a 2nd team

Notice how they are all away games in the borders? I wouldn't be surprised if at the home/Edinburgh games the numbers are available. People have got different priorities especially those with young families. Speaking for the young dad's, there's no chance of being away for 6 hours on a Saturday if there are wee tots at home.

Maybe a rethink on how and where 2s leagues are distributed?

A good point Tramp - as a player who spent most of my adult career in a 2nd XV I know that issue well.

Thing is I was in the 2s team of a club in the equivalent of the 4th/5th division for the 1st XV. Back then (7-10 years ago) the likes of Muir or Stew Mel easily put out 4 or 5 teams a week.

For them to be struggling to have 2 full teams is a major worry for the state of rugby in Scotland.

Yeh I totally agree with you there, multiple factors feeding in to this:

1) covid fecked team sport participation. People sought out individualistic sports during lockdown and started to appreciated not feeling like a broken human being for 2 days after a match
2) not playing rugby for 2 years has a huge affect on the body. I went back to playing after covid (started a family so we were being very cautious) and I'm still getting used to the physical demands of the sport again. It's so hard to get back in to after an extended break. I guarantee lots of elder statesmen will not have returned to the sport.
3) priorities change. As we discussed earlier, social attitudes are changing especially with regards to family life. Having every Saturday out playing rugby is no longer feasible.
4) drinking culture changing. Rugby has a bad rep. Young folk are drinking less or see it as less important, rugby has a rep for peer pressure and supreme n0bbery. Doesn't make it very attractive.
5) head injuries. Enough said.

I do wonder if the move to hsving all these subs per team has helped either, though that predstes covid obviously.

When i played, when you got down to the 3rd or 4th teams, which most vlubs did have. You were lucky to have 15 players and even the 1st team probably only had one sub.

It seems to me that a whole team in most clubs sit on the bench these days and only play 10 or 20 mins. I can't imagine i would have enjoyed that.

The problem of home and away teams was a factor even in the old days though. For the clubs i played for, long away trips were always an issue, not least becsuse people worked on saturday morning and could just not get away early enough to go on a road trip. That is one of the reasons most clubs won their home games.

A lot has changed in the world since then though, organised sport was a good way for people to spend their leisure time then, wheras now, there are many more options. It is not just rugby thst struggles to attract people either.

When i stopped playing rugby, largely dictated by work commitments. As when i started nursing, i began to work at weekends, i then got more into cycling as my excercise fix and suddenly appreciated being able to ride when it suited me and not necesserily on a saturday afternoon.

I can't see rugby ever grtting back to its levels of the 1980s when i played and that is a shame for people thst won't experience the pleasure and joy of being involved in a rugby club.

There is a danger that it will become a sport played at a high level and by kids in a safe environment as they grow up and maybe not much in between.

Big win for Edinburgh - anybody watch?

It was a good 5 pts for Edinburgh but very poor showing for Zebra against a weakened team, they were 4 scores down and a man sent off by HT, which made it a pretty poor spectacle.

Matt Currie was impressive for Edinburgh and Goosen looks like he will be a good addition to the squad. harriso had a pretty good cameo off the bench and certainly looks like one for the future.

Crosbie was subbed off with a head injury quite early, hopefully that won't cost him a squad place for these AIs.

Just watched the game (fast forwarding a lot as it wasn't much of a spectacle).

Job done for Edinburgh with a potential banana skin averted of traveling to Italy with a 2nd string team. Zebre were pretty terrible.

Blair will be happy with 5 points and a number squad players getting a run out. Matt Currie really looks a star of the future - he's in a competitive position though. I really like our reserve front row of Venter, McBurney and De Bruin - all very dynamic and powerful.

Going to be a much tougher test for the squad away to Cardiff next week but also a very winnable game. If we win that then it's probably a 7/10 for our start to the season. Lose and we'll be majorly on the back foot with tougher tests to come.

Good summary RDW, I agree. Hopefully having Goosen will make a bit of difference against Cardiff and Benneton. I've also been very impressed with Currie and Dean seems to be in a good run of form at the moment too. Shame he didn't get a call up to partner Bennett for Aus. Munster straight up after the Autumn internationals will be a tough one and I imagine a few of the international players will be rested? Back to full strength for the derby close to xmas though I thought there would be more games but seems to be a fairly modest run of fixtures.

https://www.connachtrugby.ie/connacht-sign-scottish-hooker-grant-stewart/

I totally missed this but glad he's got another pro contract.

bsando wrote:Good summary RDW, I agree. Hopefully having Goosen will make a bit of difference against Cardiff and Benneton. I've also been very impressed with Currie and Dean seems to be in a good run of form at the moment too. Shame he didn't get a call up to partner Bennett for Aus. Munster straight up after the Autumn internationals will be a tough one and I imagine a few of the international players will be rested? Back to full strength for the derby close to xmas though I thought there would be more games but seems to be a fairly modest run of fixtures.

We've got the small matter if as away trip to Saracens then home to Castres before the derbies!

Just bought tickets to go and see Glasgow play bath at the Rec this December.

Open stand with no cover! Hope the weather plays ball.

BigGee wrote:Just bought tickets to go and see Glasgow play bath at the Rec this December.

Open stand with no cover! Hope the weather plays ball.

Might go to that game myself! I love a trip to the rec!

NeilyBroon wrote:

BigGee wrote:Just bought tickets to go and see Glasgow play bath at the Rec this December.

Open stand with no cover! Hope the weather plays ball.

Might go to that game myself! I love a trip to the rec!

I have never been there and it is a somewhat iconic ground.

Due to be redeveloped soon into a more modern stadium, so maybe my last chance to see it in all of its windswept/rainy glory.

Huw Jones featuring in the posted pictures of Warriors in training this week.

Nearly ready for his come back?

Gee, I managed to book a room for 2 nights in Bath. There is very little available; we, Bigson Pipetto and I, ended up in a quadruple room at the YMCA. pause for outrageously homophobic jokes from FES.
As I was flying out to Nice with Mrspip on Monday I left Bigson to get the tickets. Good news... he got the tickets. Bad news..he got four.
If anyone needs a ticket in the uncovered behind the try line terrace let me know.
Gee, remember if you can't get a room ...it's fun to stay at the....

jimbopip wrote:Gee, I managed to book a room for 2 nights in Bath. There is very little available; we, Bigson Pipetto and I, ended up in a quadruple room at the YMCA. pause for outrageously homophobic jokes from FES.
As I was flying out to Nice with Mrspip on Monday I left Bigson to get the tickets. Good news... he got the tickets.  Bad news..he got four.
If anyone needs a ticket in the uncovered behind the try line terrace let me know.
Gee, remember if you can't get a room ...it's fun to stay at the....

I am only going for the day Jim, with my brother who's daughter is at Uni in Bath, so he is staying over and no doubt we will be meeting up with her for dinner before i head back to the smoke.

If you fancy meeting up for a beer at the game however, that would seem like a good plan.

My brother is a fellow teacher, recently retired, you'll get on just fine.

We can work on the logistics nearer the time.

Enjoy Nice.

I regularly do a virtual ride up the Col d'Eze on my Wattbike and it never seems to get any easier.

My daughter who studied French and spent half a year abroad in France says that it is her favourite city in France. Am sure you will have a great time.

Scotland age-grade team-mate Ferrie will also make his first appearance for the Warriors if he comes off the bench tomorrow night, with the man from East Kilbride in his second season as part of the FOSROC Scottish Rugby Academy at Scotstoun.

Head Coach Franco Smith names a starting XV showing 11 changes from the club’s most recent outing, as the Warriors look to finish the first block of 2022/23 fixtures on the front foot against their Scottish-Italian Shield rivals.

An all-new front-row combination sees Murphy Walker return from Scotland camp to make his first start of the season at tight-head, joining Oli Kebble and Fraser Brown at the coal-face.

Sintu Manjezi is one of four players to retain their places from the meeting with the Cell C Sharks in Durban, the South African packing down alongside debutant Samuel in the second-row.

Sione Vailanu will make his first appearance at Scotstoun after making his debut off the bench in Durban last time out, with Ryan Wilson shifting to the blindside to accommodate the Tongan in a back-row completed by Gregor Brown.

Behind the scrum, a new half-back combination sees both Jamie Dobie and Domingo Miotti make their first starts of the 2022/23 season, the former appearing in a Glasgow Warriors matchday squad for the first time since a hamstring injury sustained during his summer loan spell at Bay of Plenty.

A brace of returnees from Scotland camp will combine in the midfield, as Stafford McDowall lines up inside club captain Kyle Steyn in the centres.

Josh McKay is the only back to retain his place from the club’s most recent outing, with the full-back joined by Sebastian Cancelliere and Rufus McLean in the back-three.

Smith and his coaching team once again elect for a six-two split of forwards and backs on the bench, with Ferrie covering the back-row in his first outing in professional rugby.

Johnny Matthews is the most-experienced Warrior available off the bench, the hooker joining Simon Berghan and Nathan McBeth as the front-row cover.

JP du Preez and Lewis Bean provide a physical presence to the replacements, with Bean set for his first outing for Glasgow since the Round One clash away to Benetton last month.

Sean Kennedy comes into the matchday 23 to cover at scrum-half, whilst Tom Jordan completes the squad by rotating to the bench after starting each of Glasgow’s five fixtures to date this campaign.



Speaking following selection, Head Coach Smith told glasgowwarriors.org: “After a disrupted few weeks everyone is looking forward to getting back to playing rugby in front of our home crowd tomorrow evening.

“It’s great to be able to welcome Jamie Dobie back into the side and we’re looking forward to seeing Alex [Samuel] and Euan [Ferrie] earn their debuts.

“Tomorrow is another challenge – Benetton out-performed us in the first week and we need to be at our best to rectify that tomorrow at Scotstoun in front of our home crowd.”

Glasgow Warriors team to face Benetton at Scotstoun Stadium, Friday 28 october, kick-off 7.35pm. Tickets are still available for the match at glasgowwarriors.org, or you can follow all the action on the @GlasgowWarriors Twitter account.

1. Oli Kebble (81)
2. Fraser Brown (127)
3. Murphy Walker (7)
4. Sintu Manjezi (5)
5. Alex Samuel (0)
6. Ryan Wilson (216)
7. Gregor Brown (8)
8. Sione Vailanu (1)

9. Jamie Dobie (36)
10. Domingo Miotti (9)
11. Rufus McLean (22)
12. Stafford McDowall (39)
13. Kyle Steyn (C) (51)
14. Sebastian Cancelliere (13)
15. Josh McKay (17)

Replacements

16. Johnny Matthews (31)
17. Nathan McBeth (6)
18. Simon Berghan (14)
19. JP du Preez (4)
20. Lewis Bean (19)
21. Euan Ferrie (0)
22. Sean Kennedy (20)
23. Tom Jordan (5)

Unavailable for selection: Allan Dell (calf), Rory Darge (ankle), Thomas Gordon (calf), Sam Johnson (jaw), Huw Jones (back), Ally Miller (back), Enrique Pieretto (shoulder), Lucio Sordoni (head)

International duty: Jamie Bhatti, Scott Cummings, Jack Dempsey, Matt Fagerson, Zander Fagerson, Richie Gray, George Horne, Ali Price, Ollie Smith, Ross Thompson, Sione Tuipulotu, George Turner.

An interesting looking team for Glasgow, with their internationals away, time for some of the youngsters and squad players to show what they can do.

A long awaited debut for Alex Samuels and another academy player Euan Ferrie will come into the second row at some stage in the game to make his debut as well.

Sione Vailanu starts at No.8 after a promising cameo off the bench against the Sharks.

Wonderkid Dobie makes his first appearence of the season at SH and we finally get to see Miotti start a game.


It could be a tight game if Bennetton come into it fully loaded, Italy don't have a game this weekend.

As you say Gee it is an interesting selection. I'm beginning to think that the South African trip has buggered up our entire season. The five HIA's at the end of the Shark's game, plus a broken jaw for Sam J which will keep him out till the New Year, seemed an awful lot at the time. I initially suspected "overly robust challenges" from the home side but if the Glasgow squad had been smitten with the Tex Ritters before the game that would fully explain the players all looking cream crackered after fifty-odd minutes. My experience of Gi troubles is that they leave you feeling jelly legged and weak and listless. just imagine going head to head with the Sharks when your energy levels fall through the floor. In boxing the ref would have stopped the contest after 65 minutes. Then we have the farce of will we won't we play the Lions. At best another trip to Noroland: at worst nul points.Actually another trip to the Land Of The Long White Loo Roll and nul points
I think we may struggle to make the top eight now and Benneton and the Perfumed Ones are pulling away from us in our mini-league so playing in the big cup next season is doubtful.
Will the general focus on the Diddy Cup to salvage something? Will he use parts of the league season to blood some youngsters?
Well, there's plenty of youngsters in the squad for tomorrow.
McBeth, Walker and Samuels will be hard pushed by whichever set of forwards Benneton bring.
Is Gregor Brown a better 7 than a 6? I think the Batmobile is running out of pace hence Ryan's starting at 6 but HMS Vailanu is much more heavy destroyer than light cruise so the back row may well be hoping that neither side puts too much width on their attacking plays.

Dobie-Miotti could be very exciting: one thing...actually two things I like about young Dobie is that his pass from the floor fairly zips into the 10's hands and his electric pace "keeps defences honest" as those who know these things say. Miotti should have decent ball and a little bit of time and space in which to use it. He has a good performance in him; let's hope we see it soon.
Seaman is back He is back at 13
Titman-McKay-Seeba as a back three! What's not to love?

Glasgow by 11.

Strong Edinburgh team, particularly given how many are with Scotland.

This lot would pump that Glasgow team!

Edinburgh Rugby team to face Cardiff Rugby at Cardiff Arms Park in the BKT United Rugby Championship
Sunday 30 October (kick-off 3pm) – live on Premier Sports

15. Henry Immelman (21)

14. Emiliano Boffelli (21)
13. Matt Currie (15)
12. Chris Dean (126)
11. Wes Goosen (1)

10. Charlie Savala (17)
9. Charlie Shiel (47)

1. Boan Venter (31)
2. Adam McBurney (16)
3. Luan de Bruin (13)
4. Pierce Phillips (13)
5. Jamie Hodgson (43)
6. Ben Muncaster (20)
7. Luke Crosbie (74) CAPTAIN
8. Viliame Mata (100)

Replacements

16. Patrick Harrison (5)
17. Nick Auterac (1)
18. Angus Williams (14)
19. Marshall Sykes (26)
20. Connor Boyle (23)
21. Henry Pyrgos (75)
22. Jaco van der Walt (91)
23. Jack Blain (20)


Unavailable: Cammy Hutchison, James Lang, Stuart McInally, Ben Vellacott.

International selection: Mark Bennett, Dave Cherry, Grant Gilchrist, Darcy Graham, Nick Haining, Damien Hoyland, Blair Kinghorn, WP Nel, Jamie Ritchie, Pierre Schoeman, Sam Skinner, Duhan van der Merwe, Hamish Watson, Glen Young.

It's a remarkably strong squad given the number of absences. Some of these players will be desperate to put down a marker, so I expect to see plenty of motivated players on Sunday. I'm particularly keen to see Shiel in action, and Currie given another shot. Great prospects.

Quite a green bench for Edinburgh, can see why they started Shiel/Savala rather than Pyrgos/VDW. The starting pack has real size and there should be no excuse about not getting front foot ball.

Cardiff have done quite well so far this year and this will be a good test. Don't recognise much of their bench.

Kiran McDonald to Mjnster for 3 months

Well that keeps him playing and in the frame for a longer more settled contract down the line.

I could still see him coming back to Glasgow next season, particilarly if Gray moves on. He is a good player.

Glasgow doing well!

Good result, and decent performance from Glasgow. Given a bit Moore composure it could have been 50. Understandable given the inexperience of some of the players, and new combinations. But Benneton...

We got a view of Scotstoun coming in to land at Glasgow this evening at 21.15

Pity i missed the match, sounds like it went well

https://twitter.com/URCOfficial/status/1586070870472425472?t=BHg2YkCoaKR8eNj7GxQimw&s=19

Ooft quite a run from the big Tongan!

That winger very much didn't fancy the tackle though

"Oh no you dummied me, guess I won't be able to tackle you after all...!"

That Benneton defence was non existent in the highlights reel. Shocking! Presumably they were just gassed. Great to see Dobie is back playing well after his stint at BOP. Great result for Glasgow.

Decent away win there. Cardiff are tough and well drilled. The back row of Muncaster, Crosbie and Mata were excellent, as was Dean in midfield.

A physical contest that, Edinburgh did well to win in that manner. They’re such a good outfit under Mike Blair.

That's a great win for Edinburgh. Dean looks good in the highlights!

On the evidence of this season, I would say Dean is deserving of an international call up - he has been superb from what I have seen.

EST wrote:On the evidence of this season, I would say Dean is deserving of an international call up - he has been superb from what I have seen.

Christine has been a steady player for years now, but never quite made the step up unfortunately and at 28 is unlikely to break through at international level now. That is largely because our depth pool at centre is so much better than it used to be, he is undoubtedly a better centre than several who have been capped in the past.

Happy to report that the parking at the Ingliston Park and Ride went well and it was also much easier to get the tram back the airport way than it was going back to town, we only had to wait half an hour or so after the game to get on one.

The car park certainly filled up though. There was space when we parked at around 11.00 but after the match, cars were littered everywhere, parked on the pavements, the grass verges, outside the park and everywhere else available.

Thanks again for the advice.

Makes a mockery of Stafford feckin McDowell getting a callup though!

RDW wrote:Makes a mockery of Stafford feckin McDowell getting a callup though!

To defend McDowell, he started fairly well this year and is 24. He has not had many opportunities behind S Johnson/H Jones/Grigg/Steyn/DTH after breaking out in 2018/2019. He has been forced to play at 12, 13 and 15 at various points if memory serves under a coach that did not like to rotate the squad. The problem is he is probably a 12 and that is Johnson and Tuipulotu's best position so opportunities to develop are limited and he may never reach the level needed for Scotland.

Not sure what other centres are Scotland based who could have realistically been picked ahead of him. Dean is probably third choice at Edinburgh and is 28, Hutchison and H Jones are injured, Steyn is out of form...

Hazel Sapling wrote:

RDW wrote:Makes a mockery of Stafford feckin McDowell getting a callup though!

To defend McDowell, he started fairly well this year and is 24. He has not had many opportunities behind S Johnson/H Jones/Grigg/Steyn/DTH after breaking out in 2018/2019. He has been forced to play at 12, 13 and 15 at various points if memory serves under a coach that did not like to rotate the squad. The problem is he is probably a 12 and that is Johnson and Tuipulotu's best position so opportunities to develop are limited and he may never reach the level needed for Scotland.

Not sure what other centres are Scotland based who could have realistically been picked ahead of him. Dean is probably third choice at Edinburgh and is 28, Hutchison and H Jones are injured, Steyn is out of form...

From what we have seen this season, I would say that Tuipolotu is a better 13 than 12, that is where he has done his damage for Glasgow.

Problem is, Scotland have a log jam of good 13s and not so many 12s. Tuipolotu is going to score higher as he covers both centre positions and that may be what keep him in the frame.

McDowell has been playing well this season and may well have a higher ceiling than Dean, but he is also a lot younger and probably worth spending a bit more time developing than Dean, who for all that he is a good steady player, has never really held down a starting position at Edinburgh and probably would not even now if Lang was fit.

As it stands though, both are a way down the pecking order in international terms and it is hard to see either getting capped.

BigGee wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Shona and for the Scotland midfield?

Maybe, except they may be playing for the same position. After last night, I can't help but thinking Tuipoltu is a better 13 than 12. Both are weapons, though they have a different way of going about it.

You got to say that both Lang and Lord Stafford played well in the 12 channels for both our clubs this weekend.

We are not short of good centres, we just need to find a combination that works well at international level and solving that conundrum seems to have escaped Toonie so far.

Just thought I'd remind evryone of what we were saying in September.