Prem 2022 - 2023 Thoughts

Poorfour wrote:Quins have posted their squad for their pre-season against London Scottish tomorrow:
https://www.quins.co.uk/article/team-to-travel-to-london-scottish-named

Harlequins Starting XV

Simon Kerrod
George Head
Will Collier
George Hammond
Irne Herbst
Jack Kenningham
Will Evans
Tom Lawday – captain
Lewis Gjaltema
Will Edwards
Ross Chisholm
Lennox Anyanwu
Luke Northmore
Nick David
Tyrone Green

Impact Players
Santiago Garcia Botta, Jordan Els, Jack Musk, Tom Osborne, Rhys Litterick, Charlie Matthews, Dino Lamb, Archie White, Luke Wallace, Alex Dombrandt, Jack Stafford, Tommy Allan, Connor Slevin, Jamie Benson, Hayden Hyde, Cadan Murley, Conor Oresanya

The game isn’t that important but what is potentially significant is that it sees the return to action of Kenningham, Lamb, White and Dombrandt, who were all injured at the end of last season. The only injured player missing from the squad (and there are several DR Quins in the Scottish side, too) is Ross Chisholm. Sounds like the physios have worked their magic in the off—season, which is important given we’ll be missing (at least) Smith, Esterhuizen and Care for the start of the season.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Jack Kenningham back eh

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Jack Kenningham back eh

He and Evans could be a very good flanker combo for Quins. An absolute nightmare to play against.

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Jack Kenningham back eh

He and Evans could be a very good flanker combo for Quins. An absolute nightmare to play against.

Evans / Kenningham / Dombrandt is a back row with everything you could ask for. It’s like Skinner / Robshaw / Easter but much faster.

Poorfour wrote:Quins recorded an easy win over Richmond, as you’d expect. The key pluses for me are that the new signings, especially Irne Herbst and the returning Charlie Matthews, put in a good showing, several players came back from injury with no obvious loss of form, and no-one seems to have picked up an injury. The main downside is that none of the looseheads on show looked  great. If we are reliant on Marler to play 70 minutes every week, I am not sure even he can do that for a whole season

Confirmation to come but hearing tonight’s Premiership rugby games are on.

Rugby Fan wrote:There have been some questions over whether tonight's matches are going ahead. Charlie Morgan of the Telegraph says he understands they will be played.

https://twitter.com/CharlieFelix/status/1568175072195608576

Confirmation to come but hearing tonight’s Premiership rugby games are on.

In the absence of any guidance from the Sports Ministry, the Premiership probably feels it can't afford to cancel.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Given all those injuries more likely that you just want your best players that are fit in the 23. You've got three good hookers but lots of backrow injuries, drop one in at 7 and tell him to just let loose. Interesting to see what happens at scrum time as Blamire is probably the better hooker at the scrum but McGuigan's better at lineout throwing. Will they mix and match?

Chaos and fury was felt behind the scenes at Premiership clubs over a frantic two hours in which the competition flip-flopped over whether or not to go ahead with their opening fixtures of the season on Friday night, with financial and scheduling concerns off-setting a desire to pay respect to Queen Elizabeth II.

The outcome, which has seen Bristol Bears’ meeting with Bath and Sale Sharks’ match against Northampton rescheduled, has left senior figures angrily questioning the Premiership’s decision-making process. Even though the West Country derby has been rearranged for tomorrow at 5.30pm, the move is likely to cost Bristol between £200,000 and £400,000.

Bristol had sold 23,500 tickets for Friday night and were expecting a sell-out. They are understood to have earned the backing of the Rugby Football Union until a Premiership board meeting scuppered their plans.

Telegraph Sport understands that Friday night matches were moved because the Premiership board could not agree to maintaining the original schedule. It is understood that while all clubs were in favour of starting the season this weekend, having been cleared to do so following government guidance, there was not a unified position over playing the two scheduled Friday matches. At least two members of the board, thought not to have links to clubs that were due to play on Friday night, objected to those games going ahead.

It is also understood that as things stand, there will be no television match official (TMO) or outdoor broadcast facility at either of the rearranged round one matches.

The decision to postpone was finally communicated by Premiership Rugby at 12.45pm. At this point, Northampton’s players were on their way to Salford. Before that, as late as 11am, while the board meeting was ongoing, sources had strongly indicated that Friday night fixtures would go ahead at Ashton Gate and the AJ Bell Stadium with players, coaches and supporters showing their respects to the late Queen Elizabeth by singing the national anthem and holding a moment’s silence.

Telegraph Sport understands that referees and match officials were told definitively around mid-morning that the games were on. Some were making their way to the grounds and remained in the dark until the official announcement was made an hour and three quarters later. One head coach involved in a Friday game was said to be in the dark and “waiting by the phone” for news at around 11.15am.

At around 11.30am, following the Premier League’s move to postpone the entire weekend schedule, the mood had begun to change with sources less certain that the Friday schedule would be fulfilled. Insiders at various Premiership clubs around the country described “bedlam”, “scrambling” and “absolute madness”. “I’ve worked in sport a fair while,” said one source. “This is remarkable.”

A coordinated social media post that was published by all 13 teams, explaining that clubs were awaiting guidance, is said to have been drafted by the clubs themselves rather than Premiership Rugby.

The Premiership’s situation looks all the more curious for the RFU’s “respectful continuation” of matches. We now have a scenario where Friday night will see two games in the Championship as Cornish Pirates play Richmond and Coventry meet Bedford Blues, with none going ahead in the top flight.   A congested fixture list in the season leading up to the 2023 World Cup, which already features Premiership Rugby Cup matches being played in midweek, will also have come under consideration. As statistician Russ Petty has outlined, there are only two free weekends for Premiership clubs between now and the competition final at Twickenham – the third weekend in November and the third weekend of the Six Nations.

Bristol’s game against Bath will take place on Saturday evening, which is not too disruptive because both sides have round two games the following Saturday. Sale’s match against Northampton has been moved to Sunday at 3pm.

Northampton Saints' match with London Irish next Friday has also been moved as a result of the disruption, with the game now taking place on Saturday, September 17, kicking off at 2pm.

The fixture has been moved so that Northampton avoid a short turnaround between matches, given they now face Sale Sharks this Sunday and would only have four days off between games. "The club would like to thank London Irish and Premiership Rugby for their swift co-operation," Northampton Saints said.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ridley and the very chirpy TMO did miss Youngs being obstructed for a certain try. The officiating in general has been pretty poor, particularly the TMO who's wildly inconsistent.

Duty281 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ridley and the very chirpy TMO did miss Youngs being obstructed for a certain try. The officiating in general has been pretty poor, particularly the TMO who's wildly inconsistent.

Officiating simply isn't of a good enough standard and it's a real problem. Too many games in the Premiership are decided by the refereeing team.

Leicester absolutely mugged of a deserved win today. The Youngs obstruction as you say, but also Burns being smashed for Exeter's second try, and then for the match-winning score a calamity of errors - a joke of a penalty for Exeter to start it off, then the line-out didn't go five, then there was clear crossing/obstruction in the lead-up to the try. Leicester got some rubbish calls in their favour as well, but none as definitive as those.

The TMO ranged from incredibly observant to completely unsighted. Terrible stuff.

Heaf wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ridley and the very chirpy TMO did miss Youngs being obstructed for a certain try. The officiating in general has been pretty poor, particularly the TMO who's wildly inconsistent.

Officiating simply isn't of a good enough standard and it's a real problem. Too many games in the Premiership are decided by the refereeing team.

Leicester absolutely mugged of a deserved win today. The Youngs obstruction as you say, but also Burns being smashed for Exeter's second try, and then for the match-winning score a calamity of errors - a joke of a penalty for Exeter to start it off, then the line-out didn't go five, then there was clear crossing/obstruction in the lead-up to the try. Leicester got some rubbish calls in their favour as well, but none as definitive as those.

The TMO ranged from incredibly observant to completely unsighted. Terrible stuff.

Was the TMO the same 'Rosie' as the one that got suspended a few years ago?

Duty281 wrote:Officiating simply isn't of a good enough standard and it's a real problem. Too many games in the Premiership are decided by the refereeing team.

doctor_grey wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Officiating simply isn't of a good enough standard and it's a real problem. Too many games in the Premiership are decided by the refereeing team.

So what can be done, mate? Do we need to raise referee compensation to attract more/better people?  Is it training?  if we expect referees to do more studying between game, again, pay more?  

I know a few referees at different levels and most genuinely enjoy officiating.  But when all they see in the media is that they are crap, or they are almost personally responsible for one team's loss or another team's win, how do we recruit more and better?  And they miss things usually because things happen in split moments in a sport that is arguably the most difficult to officiate.  And in some cases, the get eviscerated for it.  Who would ever want to be a ref?  

But ultimately, how to fix?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Mixed opinions on the falcons game......certainly somethings to work on... but we HAVE to sort our defence out. It's awful.

Blamire looks half the size...he's dropped some serious weight.

Oh and not making excuses we lost due to our defence  .but the ref dear lord.
Quins in at the side all the time ignored, obstructing constantly...ignored...TWO bad neck rolls....ignored...

The standard of refereeing needs sorted out.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Officiating simply isn't of a good enough standard and it's a real problem. Too many games in the Premiership are decided by the refereeing team.

So what can be done, mate? Do we need to raise referee compensation to attract more/better people?  Is it training?  if we expect referees to do more studying between game, again, pay more?  

I know a few referees at different levels and most genuinely enjoy officiating.  But when all they see in the media is that they are crap, or they are almost personally responsible for one team's loss or another team's win, how do we recruit more and better?  And they miss things usually because things happen in split moments in a sport that is arguably the most difficult to officiate.  And in some cases, the get eviscerated for it.  Who would ever want to be a ref?  

But ultimately, how to fix?

More training and support. Can't expect people to perform better without actively trying to up skill them. I'd say a mentoring program because we have a lot of young refs currently but we don't have many experienced refs around to do that. Barnes is about the only one, maybe Tempest.