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England - the build-up and winning the World Cup at a canter

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Wed 09 Aug 2023, 5:05 am

First topic message reminder :

Here we go again.....

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Post by mountain man Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:07 pm

Well in fairness they deserve it so far, this is worse than last week and that was terrible.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:09 pm

Liam Williams has been a walking injury for a few seasons… Time to try Adams at 15 again.

Wales not taking advantage of this. England are playing well when they hold possession.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:09 pm

Farrell red?

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:10 pm

That’s not good if Faz gets red…

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:10 pm

Owen Farrell. Ciao, ciao. Which plonker made him captain?

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Post by mountain man Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:11 pm

Feck me down to 12 now and likely red for Farrell.

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:11 pm

I didn't think it could get any worse but it did ... surprised that wan't red - maybe ref feeling guilty about start this whole passage off with his shocking call against Genge ...

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:12 pm

If this becomes a red, how many games in the RWC would he miss?

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:12 pm

I think they’ll give him a YC after the review. So funny if him and Biggar were allowed to go at it, would be a proper round of handbags.

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Post by Geordie Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:13 pm

England are awful

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:14 pm

At least this will drive more conversation here.

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:14 pm

England need to go back to the drawing board - and the ref needs to go back to scrum school ...

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Post by mountain man Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:14 pm

So as I said pre match, this is a must win for England.

Another loss in a bad performance would be a disaster.

One time I wish I wasn't right.

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:15 pm

Down to 12 and they finally score a try - you couldn't make this up ...

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:16 pm

Leave the leadership to Lawes and things can settle down, eh? We just knew he had to be the target in that lineout after making that turnover...

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Post by Geordie Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:18 pm

If Farrell doesn't have the intelligence to change his tackling style in the current era then he doesn't deserve to go to the world Cup

He's an idiot.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:21 pm

Malins heart heart heart is on. Victory is assured.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:22 pm

Great lineout by Wales…

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:22 pm

So scrum pen to England - presumably he'll be yellow carding a Welsh player now then?

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:24 pm

Well done the ref - at least he's consistent even if he is clueless in the scrum ...

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Post by lostinwales Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:25 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Don't give a pass to Arundell all game then sub him off. Nice.

He's not a winger....never has been and it shows.

Him being a wing or not isn't actually that relevant. He fecked up with the yellow card but otherwise he fielded his kicks and wasn't that far away on that kick chase. It is the winger's lot - some games they get lots to do other games they don't.

Still a load of poop. Better than last week - some good things. Wales are only so so. Farrell looked OK at 10 - more control although still no tries. Earl and Daly have looked good, and Lawrence too.

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:26 pm

Itoje taken in the air then ...

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:27 pm

OK time for the ref to guess again and give Wales a pen ...

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:27 pm

Heaf wrote:So scrum pen to England - presumably he'll be yellow carding a Welsh player now then?

How can you give a yellow for a dubious call not in the red zone....I'm still at an utter loss here.

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:28 pm

He's gone off script ...

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:29 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Heaf wrote:So scrum pen to England - presumably he'll be yellow carding a Welsh player now then?

How can you give a yellow for a dubious call not in the red zone....I'm still at an utter loss here.

If you mean the Genge one he'd stupidly warned both teams that the next was a yellow - stupid and reckless as he was clearly guessing anyway - that should get him a good slapping at his review ... can't be given yellows based on a guess ...

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:30 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Malins heart heart heart is on.  Victory is assured.
I told you all.....

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:30 pm

How the f did England win that ...

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Post by carpet baboon Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:32 pm

Is this a great comeback win for England? Are Wales just not that good?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:32 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Don't give a pass to Arundell all game then sub him off. Nice.

He's not a winger....never has been and it shows.

Him being a wing or not isn't actually that relevant. He fecked up with the yellow card but otherwise he fielded his kicks and wasn't that far away on that kick chase. It is the winger's lot - some games they get lots to do other games they don't.

Still a load of poop. Better than last week - some good things. Wales are only so so. Farrell looked OK at 10 - more control although still no tries. Earl and Daly have looked good, and Lawrence too.

I get it but as a winger you have instincts....you instantly know where to be, lines to run etc. He's never played wing for Irish....only a few games for England. I know fb is similar somewhat but he's still a kid and learning....why put him on the wing.

Utter dross again....few positives. Much stronger side on paper that got showed up most of the game.

And the ref was terrible.

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Post by mountain man Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:33 pm

Well better than a loss as it looked like being but another woeful match.
Positives are Earl and fact England went on to win after being down to 12 and losing at time.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:33 pm

Shocking that Wales didn’t win that, down to 12 men at one point! Fair play to England for raising their intensity. Some questions answered for Wales about some positions. I hope Daf Jenkins is okay as Beard surely can’t be first choice.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:33 pm

Heaf wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Heaf wrote:So scrum pen to England - presumably he'll be yellow carding a Welsh player now then?

How can you give a yellow for a dubious call not in the red zone....I'm still at an utter loss here.

If you mean the Genge one he'd stupidly warned both teams that the next was a yellow - stupid and reckless as he was clearly guessing anyway - that should get him a good slapping at his review ... can't be given yellows based on a guess ...

Ah....I didn't hear that. Still....it was the Welsh TH on the other side!

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Post by Geordie Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:33 pm

Earl, Ford, Daly the only real positives

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:34 pm

At least the fitness is ok....

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Post by lostinwales Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:35 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Don't give a pass to Arundell all game then sub him off. Nice.

He's not a winger....never has been and it shows.

Him being a wing or not isn't actually that relevant. He fecked up with the yellow card but otherwise he fielded his kicks and wasn't that far away on that kick chase. It is the winger's lot - some games they get lots to do other games they don't.

Still a load of poop. Better than last week - some good things. Wales are only so so. Farrell looked OK at 10 - more control although still no tries. Earl and Daly have looked good, and Lawrence too.

I get it but as a winger you have instincts....you instantly know where to be, lines to run etc. He's never played wing for Irish....only a few games for England. I know fb is similar somewhat but he's still a kid and learning....why put him on the wing.

Utter dross again....few positives. Much stronger side on paper that got showed up most of the game.

And the ref was terrible.

The ref was OK for a half. England kind of woke up at the end. Wales vs 12 did get a try but should have done much more.

Earl deserved MoM

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Post by mountain man Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:36 pm

Fitness, hmmm so maybe it wasn't the problem last week after all.
Daly, he was good. That won't please some.

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Post by Heaf Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:37 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Heaf wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Heaf wrote:So scrum pen to England - presumably he'll be yellow carding a Welsh player now then?

How can you give a yellow for a dubious call not in the red zone....I'm still at an utter loss here.

If you mean the Genge one he'd stupidly warned both teams that the next was a yellow - stupid and reckless as he was clearly guessing anyway - that should get him a good slapping at his review ... can't be given yellows based on a guess ...

Ah....I didn't hear that. Still....it was the Welsh TH on the other side!

Indeed - ref compounded one error with another ...

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:39 pm

Courtney Lawes in the post match interview: "we got lucky today"

To me that means
1. England were fortunate to win
2. England were fortunate Farrell was sent off and may have lost him for parts of the RWC.


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Post by Geordie Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:41 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:At least the fitness is ok....

Sb even said in his pre match interview they're still in a heavy training phase.

I'm concerned about tighthead
Why did Theo Dan not come for some crucial gametime.  
Farrell hopefully banned for the whole WC and dropped

Nedd to see the stats on Lawes, Itoje, Martin etc


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Post by mountain man Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:41 pm

Not sure which team be most unhappy. England for playing terribly again and so many cards or Wales not winning when playing against 12 and leading

Neither team be happy. Suspect Wales less unhappy?

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Post by lostinwales Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:42 pm

Honorable mention for Liam Williams. I did wonder if we'd see much more of him in internationals. Still an a*sehole but still a complete pain in the a*se.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:43 pm

Heaf wrote:They were warned and he did put his hands on the ground first

Yeah agree. Hope there is a bit of consistency in this going forward though, as a lot of jackallers do it, or rest on their elbows etc.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:46 pm

mountain man wrote:Not sure which team be most unhappy. England for playing terribly again and so many cards or Wales not winning when playing against 12 and leading

Neither team be happy. Suspect Wales less unhappy?

Some signs of hope for England to be honest, Wales are not there yet in my view. Conceding a pushover try with 3 more players on the pitch isn't a good look, just England have been so poor at points in both games. We do still need to get major chunks of our team sorted.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:49 pm

I would rather Wales go out in the groups than watch another potential game of that. Both games have been poor.

Wales' set piece was pretty garbage, especially the lineout. Humphreys is stealing a living.


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Post by mountain man Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:49 pm

Without defending Farrell as he has history, I've watched that several times in real time and yes he could and should have gone lower but it happens so quickly in game. I've seen a lot worse. Red card but let's not get too carried away.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:50 pm

Oh and at least six weeks/games for Farrell. Can't be any reduction.

Speed of play doesn't come in to it, especially when you have a rep for it.

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Post by Poorfour Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:55 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Oh and at least six weeks/games for Farrell. Can't be any reduction.

Speed of play doesn't come in to it, especially when you have a rep for it.

Fagerson got 4, reduced to 3 for tackle school, for a more clear cut offence. I think Farrell has done tackle school, but to go above 4 would be inconsistent.
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Post by sensisball Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:58 pm

If Farrell gets a 4 game ban then who starts at 10?
Surely Borthwick will go with the superior kicking and passing game of Ford?
Who will they take someone else in his place?
Would Slade come back in?

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 12 Aug 2023, 7:58 pm

mountain man wrote:Without defending Farrell as he has history, I've watched that several times in real time and yes he could and should have gone lower but it happens so quickly in game. I've seen a lot worse. Red card but let's not get too carried away.
Farrell tackles high.  It is what he does.  If he was going to change or wanted to change, he would have done it already. At this stage of his career he is just one dumb tackle away from another red which could potentially cost England a game in the RWC.  For my money, I can't take those odds.  And besides, he adds nothing is attack.


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