Rugby World Cup - other team/games and general chat

First topic message reminder :

Carried on from.........

https://www.606v2.com/t71218-rugby-world-cup-other-team-games-and-general-chat

I found if I was in a meeting and someone used the phrase "blue sky thinking" they genuinely were to be ignored on all subjects, especially the ones they claimed to be expert in.

Also phrases such as
"360 degree feedback"
"Out of the box thinking"
And many more I have purged from memory, were a good way of finding the people.in a room who had no real idea what they were doing

I've never been able to get over the phrase 'reach out', instead of 'speak to' or 'mail'.

'Bandwidth' is used quite commonly where I work to describe time in which you're free to take on an additional task but 'reaching out' consumes so much hatred that I don't have any left for the pricks who use this term.

Can't stand this "feelings"


My favourite however is "facts don't care about feelings

'South Africa is ranked number 10 on the list of countries with the most suicides with 23,5 per 100 000 population. [1] Of the 13 774 suicides reported in South Africa, 10 861 were men whilst 2 913 were women – translating to a rate of 37,6 per 100 000 for men and 9,8 per 100 000 for women.'

Galted wrote:I've never been able to get over the phrase 'reach out', instead of 'speak to' or 'mail'.

'Bandwidth' is used quite commonly where I work to describe time in which you're free to take on an additional task but 'reaching out' consumes so much hatred that I don't have any left for the pricks who use this term.

This is one of the phrases I dislike too. Send someone a pretty basic, standard email about nothing much at all (problem with the photocopier, for example) and they reply "Thanks for reaching out". WTF?!

On a more serious note, I had a moment of intersection between two spheres of my life this morning responding to a comment on another platform about NH refs officiating SH sides and vice versa.

My degree is in psychology and one of the concepts I learned about was automaticity. The idea is basically that your conscious brain can only process a very small number of things at once, so you basically train subconscious routines to recognise complex sets of inputs and suggest a response automatically. This enable you to do complex decision making quickly, but the challenge is that in a situation that is slightly different from the normal picture, the most common response can take over even if it's not actually right for the situation.

The lightbulb moment was that explains how refs miss things that are obvious to us from a different angle, but also suggests how both refs and players should prepare for dealing with each other.

One - which I use in my own reffing - is that if you have the luxury of a stoppage in play, you can consciously examine what your responses are and look at why you thought that way. I had one recently where I had a complex mess on the try line and had to ask a coach to step back while I processed it. He was grumpy at the time but said afterwards that the decision I reached was the right one - but what I learned was that I need to be more vocal in saying "There was a lot going on there, and I need to work through what I saw". Good refs do this with their teams, especially pre- and during TMO checks.

But in open play, or making a split second decision about whether to blow up or not, I think refs need to be creating a feedback loop in their heads. You usually have to respond to your first instinct in play, but you also need to think about it in the background as things move on and if you decide you should have looked at some other aspect of play, prime your brain to do so because that will make it more likely to be picked up.

As players, when commentators talk about the picture they present to the ref, what they mean is having studied that ref's calls, trying to make sure that they way they approach the breakdown in particular presents the right set of cues for the ref to respond to. Richie McCaw used to talk about wanting to give away two penalties per game as he calibrated his breakdown approach to the ref on the day - any less, and he was probably playing too conservatively, any more and he was not adapting to the ref.

I may be the only person who's interested in this, in which case apologies, and it may be very obvious (certainly seems that way having written it down...) - but I found it gave me a new perspective on how both refs and players need to prepare.

mikey_dragon wrote:I don’t remember this volume of whinging when Wales, England and Australia were in the same pool!

What are you talking about there were loads complaining?

Also it's mainly the QF that people were giving out about. Your reward for getting out of the group of death was either NZ or France. That's simply ridiculous

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I don’t remember this volume of whinging when Wales, England and Australia were in the same pool!

What are you talking about there were loads complaining?

Also it's mainly the QF that people were giving out about. Your reward for getting out of the group of death was either NZ or France. That's simply ridiculous

Yeah and when we got out of the group of death, we had to face France and South Africa in both tournaments!

The draw process is a complete shambles.

This draw is already over so it is what it is now but World Rugby have to change this for the next World Cup.  (Bear in mind I say this knowing Ireland could very well benefit from it at the next world cup)

To end up with a hugely lop sided draw because you drew it so far in advance is idiotic.  If World Rugby really need that much time to organise the tournament and that's why they do it that far in advance then sack them, sack them right now because clearly they are completely incompetant.

They are making the draw when they don't even know some of the teams who will be in the world cup as well.  

There's no reason it couldn't be drawn a year in advance of the tournament.  The draw itself is done correctly with the split in world rankings making up various pots, all they need to do is do it closer to the tournament.

There will always be 'groups of death' so to speak but if you do it at the right time these will be groups where the 1,5 and 9 in the world are in the same group for example and not where 1,3 and 5 are or where you end up with 1-4 in quarter finals against each other.

It also has the potential to be bad for the game.  If you aren't much of a rugbgy fan you would tune in expecting to see a really tight, hard fought semi final between the top 4 teams in the world or teams that had to beat them to get there.  

You might get that tight semi final, it's possible one of those teams pulls off a shock as we have said here.  However it's just as possible and maybe even likely that those teams get slaughtered and humiliated.  I can't imagine a casual fan would find that very entertaining.

carpet baboon wrote:I found if I was in a meeting and someone used the phrase "blue sky thinking" they genuinely were to be ignored on all subjects, especially the ones they claimed to be expert in.

Also phrases such as
"360 degree feedback"
"Out of the box thinking"
And many more I have purged from memory, were a good way of finding the people.in a room who had no real idea what they were doing

There are a number of rugby phrases that are really annoying too

Its a foot race now being one that irks. What other sort of race would it be, yet to witness a hand race in a rugby match.

mikey_dragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I don’t remember this volume of whinging when Wales, England and Australia were in the same pool!

What are you talking about there were loads complaining?

Also it's mainly the QF that people were giving out about. Your reward for getting out of the group of death was either NZ or France. That's simply ridiculous

Yeah and when we got out of the group of death, we had to face France and South Africa in both tournaments!

If you think that's comparable fair enough...

From my pov, the draw is what it is. Perhaps it's better to play NZ now before even more injuries occur and we are riding such a high. At the end of the day this QF curse thing is nonsense for a couple of reasons:

1. Ireland simply haven't been good enough at previous world cups to even think about winning the thing. We weren't anywhere near the top sides in the world. You could argue about 2019 but clearly the wheels had completely come off long before the World Cup started.

2. Its much of a muchness whether you get knocked out at the semi final or QF stage. Nobody remembers who plays in the semi final unless it's a tier 2 team.

I agree it is better to play NZ now and play Wales later or Argentina. If we lose we lose.

Just to gently point out the RWC uses the four semi- finalists from the previous tournament as the pool top seeds.
Historically it has been unusual for there to be the amount of movement in the wider world rankings and which has been found out by the early draw - this was done because of concerns around ticket demands because of the Olympics coming to France next year.
The draw out of the hat could have easily put Ireland in Wales pool and Scotland in England's, but it didn't.

Recwatcher16 wrote:Just to gently point out the RWC uses the four semi- finalists from the previous tournament as the pool top seeds.
Historically it has been unusual for there to be the amount of movement in the wider world rankings and which has been found out by the early draw - this was done because of concerns around ticket demands because of the Olympics coming to France next year.
The draw out of the hat could have easily put Ireland in Wales pool and Scotland in England's, but it didn't.

If they stick to that for RWC 2027 the draw could get very interesting... imagine if Ireland, France, Wales and Fiji end up as the top seeds and so you have ALL the RC sides, plus England, Scotland and Japan in the main draw. Or flip it around and have 5 of the 6 Nations plus Australia, Japan and Fiji with their names on the balls.

Regardless of how rankings move in the intervening period, there are going to be some close groups - which can really only be a good thing.

Gatland said as much today, that some teams should’ve done better in the last RWC.

Recwatcher16 wrote:Just to gently point out the RWC uses the four semi- finalists from the previous tournament as the pool top seeds.
Historically it has been unusual for there to be the amount of movement in the wider world rankings and which has been found out by the early draw - this was done because of concerns around ticket demands because of the Olympics coming to France next year.
The draw out of the hat could have easily put Ireland in Wales pool and Scotland in England's, but it didn't.

I forgot that. So there is a chance Fiji could be top seeds next time round?

Recwatcher16 wrote:Just to gently point out the RWC uses the four semi- finalists from the previous tournament as the pool top seeds.
Historically it has been unusual for there to be the amount of movement in the wider world rankings and which has been found out by the early draw - this was done because of concerns around ticket demands because of the Olympics coming to France next year.
The draw out of the hat could have easily put Ireland in Wales pool and Scotland in England's, but it didn't.

Can someone point this out to the rabid (mainly Scottish) fans who are baying for Welsh blood because we got drawn where we did. Didn't matter if we were 200th in the World at the time of the draw. We were seeded top by dint of reaching the semi finals last time. Who comes after us in the pool is, of course, up for debate. But Wales being 9th in the world at the time of the draw, or whatever it was, did not matter a jot in this case.

So there!

Does it? I'm pretty sure the bands were based on the world rankings as of January 2020 when the draw was made.

Obviously that does mean that teams that got further in that world cup would have generally climbed the rankings and so been closer or in the top seeds.

It sounds like they are changing it for the next world cup anyways and it's going to be closer to the tournament, which is good news

Recwatcher said it so I’m going with that!

Poorfour wrote:

Recwatcher16 wrote:Just to gently point out the RWC uses the four semi- finalists from the previous tournament as the pool top seeds.
Historically it has been unusual for there to be the amount of movement in the wider world rankings and which has been found out by the early draw - this was done because of concerns around ticket demands because of the Olympics coming to France next year.
The draw out of the hat could have easily put Ireland in Wales pool and Scotland in England's, but it didn't.

If they stick to that for RWC 2027 the draw could get very interesting... imagine if Ireland, France, Wales and Fiji end up as the top seeds and so you have ALL the RC sides, plus England, Scotland and Japan in the main draw. Or flip it around and have 5 of the 6 Nations plus Australia, Japan and Fiji with their names on the balls.

Regardless of how rankings move in the intervening period, there are going to be some close groups - which can really only be a good thing.

The only interesting thing that can possibly come out of the way the seeds are drawn, is if a tier 1 side came fourth in the pool and failed to automatically qualify. Something which I'd love to see happen to upset the status quo

Imagine Italy having to play Portugal in a RWC qualifier! How exciting would that be.

neilthom7 wrote:Does it?  I'm pretty sure the bands were based on the world rankings as of January 2020 when the draw was made.  

Obviously that does mean that teams that got further in that world cup would have generally climbed the rankings and so been closer or in the top seeds.

It sounds like they are changing it for the next world cup anyways and it's going to be closer to the tournament, which is good news

Yep they were based on Jan 2020 rankings a year before the draw because of the covid outbreak because if they went on Dec 2020 rankings when the draw was done Wales would have been a third seed ranked 9th.

So against the spirit of the game......

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/simulation-only-performance-here-is-by-prize-idiot-rassie-erasmus-glwgdgk2q

RiscaGame wrote:Gatland said as much today, that some teams should’ve done better in the last RWC.

And then people pulled up articles where Gatland was quoted complaining about the exact same thing back in 2015...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Gatland said as much today, that some teams should’ve done better in the last RWC.

And then people pulled up articles where Gatland was quoted complaining about the exact same thing back in 2015...

Well he didn't, he simply said it was disappointing.

Oakdene wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Gatland said as much today, that some teams should’ve done better in the last RWC.

And then people pulled up articles where Gatland was quoted complaining about the exact same thing back in 2015...

Well he didn't, he simply said it was disappointing.

Warren in 2015: "Draw came too early".

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/world-cup-draw-came-too-early-says-warren-gatland-9730473.html?fbclid=IwAR1FBnPYmG2fEkvjdOy0kmjp54WAzCZmCKLZe-HtIJ38DfvS0kjjB1SE0Rw

Complaining? He was asked about the draw.

Imagine still being this precious over it. QF nerves?

mikey_dragon wrote:Complaining? He was asked about the draw.

Imagine still being this precious over it. QF nerves?

Wales should've done better in 2011.

There's a difference in actively banging on about it (as is the case now) and seemingly mentioning it in passing and even saying probably. To be fair, the draw we were shafted in wasn't covid affected either.

But each to their own. I don't care about the draw. Wales have exceeded my expectations and are now going to wallop everybody they play from now on, so job done.

RiscaGame wrote:There's a difference in actively banging on about it (as is the case now) and seemingly mentioning it in passing and even saying probably. To be fair, the draw we were shafted in wasn't covid affected either.

But each to their own. I don't care about the draw. Wales have exceeded my expectations and are now going to wallop everybody they play from now on, so job done.

You do realise this whole Gatland thing comes from reddit, where people are just laughing at his hypocrisy. There's really nothing more to it.

Everybody is excited for the QFs it's worked out great from an entertainment pov and perhaps it's what the tournament needed after the disappointing group stage.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Complaining? He was asked about the draw.

Imagine still being this precious over it. QF nerves?

Wales should've done better in 2011.

We came fourth. Arguably we should have done better, also had to beat Ireland along the way. Would be nice to meet up again in the SF if it's to be .

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:There's a difference in actively banging on about it (as is the case now) and seemingly mentioning it in passing and even saying probably. To be fair, the draw we were shafted in wasn't covid affected either.

But each to their own. I don't care about the draw. Wales have exceeded my expectations and are now going to wallop everybody they play from now on, so job done.

You do realise this whole Gatland thing comes from reddit, where people are just laughing at his hypocrisy. There's really nothing more to it.

Everybody is excited for the QFs it's worked out great from an entertainment pov and perhaps it's what the tournament needed after the disappointing group stage.

And now everyone's second team is back to being Fiji, am I right?

A Welsh man, a Scottman and an Irish man go to a bar...the English man wasn't there as he's at the world Cup....

Geordie wrote:A Welsh man, a Scottman and an Irish man go to a bar...the English man wasn't there as he's at the world Cup....

He’s just running late

westisbest wrote:

Geordie wrote:A Welsh man, a Scottman and an Irish man go to a bar...the English man wasn't there as he's at the world Cup....

He’s just running late

Oh how it would be loathed the pragmatic team progress....

NH = World Cup bottlers!

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:NH = World Cup bottlers!

Sad but true so far.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:NH = World Cup bottlers!

Dint worry the old hated England will hold the NHs end up ...again

Still a fair bit of anger over Wales supposedly having the easiest route in history. England giving a wry smirk…

Geordie wrote:A Welsh man, a Scottman and an Irish man go to a bar...the English man wasn't there as he's at the world Cup....

Not to worry - he'll be back tonight...

George Carlin wrote:

Geordie wrote:A Welsh man, a Scottman and an Irish man go to a bar...the English man wasn't there as he's at the world Cup....

Not to worry - he'll be back tonight...

No need to run - after witnessing the quarter finals, England have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting past the Boks.

Anyway, for all the criticism of the tournament and particularly the draw, it didn't half produce some classics this weekend. If someone had told you after the Wales v Argentina QF that that was going to be the least competitive game of the weekend, I think you'd hae been surprised. OK, England v Fiji looked reasonably in England's control until 60 minutes and Fiji's two quick tries brought it back level, but ended with Fiji pushing for the winning score, even if it never looked that likely. Can't decide which of NZ v Ireland and France v SA was the better match - both absolute classics. Ireland's 37 phases at the end saw so many absolutely knackered players that it was amazing no-one slipped up in defence.

So sorry for the Wallabies. Apparently Eddie is staying.

mikey_dragon wrote:Still a fair bit of anger over Wales supposedly having the easiest route in history. England giving a wry smirk…

Why??? Just luck of the draw. Not an equitable draw based on current performance. But not the fault of any of the teams who benefited....

People seem to forget South Africas path to the 2019 final....

In their group they lost to NZ first up then had Namibia, Italy and Canada....then Japan in the QF and Wales in the SF....

Geordie wrote:People seem to forget South Africas path to the 2019 final....

In their group they lost to NZ first up then had Namibia, Italy and Canada....then Japan in the QF and Wales in the SF....

Thats true, hadnt forgotten but England have a much harder semi than SA who will have probably one of the hardest semis ever if you excuse the rude image. Cant see England coming remotely close but if they do it will be undeniable that they have improved a lot.

Geordie wrote:People seem to forget South Africas path to the 2019 final....

In their group they lost to NZ first up then had Namibia, Italy and Canada....then Japan in the QF and Wales in the SF....

South Africa have won every final they’ve reached… but they’ve only previously reached the final when they’ve played a 2nd Tier team in the QF - meaning that they have only ever had to win two tough games in a row. It will be interesting to see if they can do that this time.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Geordie wrote:People seem to forget South Africas path to the 2019 final....

In their group they lost to NZ first up then had Namibia, Italy and Canada....then Japan in the QF and Wales in the SF....

Thats true, hadnt forgotten but England have a much harder semi than SA who will have probably one of the hardest semis ever if you excuse the rude image. Cant see England coming remotely close but if they do it will be undeniable that they have improved a lot.

Whos semi is harder? If England has a much harder Semi than SA....but SA will probably have one of the hardest semis ever?

Thats some hard semis....

Geordie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Geordie wrote:People seem to forget South Africas path to the 2019 final....

In their group they lost to NZ first up then had Namibia, Italy and Canada....then Japan in the QF and Wales in the SF....

Thats true, hadnt forgotten but England have a much harder semi than SA who will have probably one of the hardest semis ever if you excuse the rude image. Cant see England coming remotely close but if they do it will be undeniable that they have improved a lot.

Whos semi is harder? If England has a much harder Semi than SA....but SA will probably have one of the hardest semis ever?

Thats some hard semis....

It's ALWAYS more difficult for England. England is not just a country or just a Rugby team. England carry the dreams and aspirations of freedom loving peoples around the known world on our broad shoulders whilst pushing back against the tides of despair from without. It's a heavy burden (which may be why Billy V. is so slow).

Poorfour wrote:

Geordie wrote:People seem to forget South Africas path to the 2019 final....

In their group they lost to NZ first up then had Namibia, Italy and Canada....then Japan in the QF and Wales in the SF....

South Africa have won every final they’ve reached… but they’ve only previously reached the final when they’ve played a 2nd Tier team in the QF - meaning that they have only ever had to win two tough games in a row. It will be interesting to see if they can do that this time.

They only had to win one tough game in a row this time, France.

Geordie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Geordie wrote:People seem to forget South Africas path to the 2019 final....

In their group they lost to NZ first up then had Namibia, Italy and Canada....then Japan in the QF and Wales in the SF....

Thats true, hadnt forgotten but England have a much harder semi than SA who will have probably one of the hardest semis ever if you excuse the rude image. Cant see England coming remotely close but if they do it will be undeniable that they have improved a lot.

Whos semi is harder? If England has a much harder Semi than SA....but SA will probably have one of the hardest semis ever?

Thats some hard semis....

England v SA is much harder for England than SA v Wales was for SA in 2019

Collapse2005 wrote:

Geordie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Geordie wrote:People seem to forget South Africas path to the 2019 final....

In their group they lost to NZ first up then had Namibia, Italy and Canada....then Japan in the QF and Wales in the SF....

Thats true, hadnt forgotten but England have a much harder semi than SA who will have probably one of the hardest semis ever if you excuse the rude image. Cant see England coming remotely close but if they do it will be undeniable that they have improved a lot.

Whos semi is harder? If England has a much harder Semi than SA....but SA will probably have one of the hardest semis ever?

Thats some hard semis....

England v SA is much harder for England than SA v Wales was for SA in 2019

Only if SA beat England by less than 3 points.