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RWC 2023 Final - New Zealand v South Africa, 28 October

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RWC 2023 Final - New Zealand v South Africa, 28 October  - Page 2 Empty RWC 2023 Final - New Zealand v South Africa, 28 October

Post by George Carlin Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

RWC 2023 Final - New Zealand v South Africa, 28 October  - Page 2 All_bl10          RWC 2023 Final - New Zealand v South Africa, 28 October  - Page 2 Sa10     
NEW ZEALAND v SOUTH AFRICA
28 October 2023
21:00 local time (CEST) (UTC+2)
Stade de France, Saint-Denis

Live on ITV/S4C

Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Touch judges: Karl Dickson, Matthew Carley
Television match official: Tom Foley

A. Head to Head

105 Played 105
62 Won 39
4 Drawn 4
39 Lost 62
2185 Points 1728

B. Recent Form

25 September 2021
North Queensland Stadium, Townsville
19–17 to New Zealand

2 October 2021
Robina Stadium, Gold Coast
29–31 to South Africa

6 August 2022
Mbombela Stadium, Mbombela
26–10 to South Africa

13 August 2022
Ellis Park, Johannesburg
23–35 to New Zealand

15 July 2023
Mount Smart Stadium, Auckland
35–20 to New Zealand

25 August 2023
Twickenham Stadium, London
35–7 to South Africa

C. Teams

NEW ZEALAND
B Barrett; Jordan, Ioane, J Barrett, Telea; Mo'unga, Smith; De Groot, Taylor, Lomax, Retallick, S Barrett, Frizell, Cane (capt), Savea.

Replacements: Liernert-Brown for Jordan (71), McKenzie for Mo'unga (75), Christie for Smith (66), Williams for de Groot (66), Taukeiaho for Taylor (66), Papali'i for Retallick (71).Not Used: Laulala, Whitelock.

SOUTH AFRICA
Willemse; Arendse, Kriel, De Allende, Kolbe; Pollard, De Klerk; Kitshoff, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Mostert, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Fourie for Nbonambi (4) Le Roux for Willemse (66), Nche for Kitshoff (52), Kleyn for Etzebeth (58), Snyman for Mostert (52), Wiese for Kolisi (73), Smith for Vermeulen (58).


Last edited by George Carlin on Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:22 pm

Cynical tackle off the ball from Faf - stick him in the bin

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:23 pm

Lol. Annoying that you miss the first 5 mins and the nature of this wc means you get sod all replays of controversial things that have happened.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:26 pm

Yeah, you have to commit GBH to get a red in this WC!

Really intense start from SA, ferocious line speed, but Kiwis only 3-6 down.

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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:27 pm

That wasn't a pen - SA get another unwarranted pen

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Post by tigertattie Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:27 pm

Heaf wrote:You mean the 'tactical' sub?

Disgraceful

You’ve got to take people at thier word when there’s nothing else to go on, but no team in the history of any team sport makes a tactical substitution after 3 minutes
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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:31 pm

SA not read the script as to being under dogs!

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Post by tigertattie Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:36 pm

Ya know, one thing football has right is playing their world cups in the summer. Playing in the pishing rain just, well, makes it a damp squib
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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:38 pm

Another clumsy yellow

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:38 pm

NZ not making it easy for themselves

On current form another YC though

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:38 pm

I really don't want cards ruining the final.
By rule, gone. But I hope only a yellow.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:39 pm

Going to be another yellow with the leniency now shown.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:39 pm

Hard enough to beat SA without playing with 14 for 20 minutes!

That one would probably be a red in normal rugby. This WC likely a yellow.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:40 pm

Should be a red but wont be. Really boring game so far.

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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:41 pm

Yep was looking forward to this match but's it's a bore-fest so far

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:42 pm

Definite red that.

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Post by Scottrf Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:44 pm

Right decision but a shame for the match.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:44 pm

Well game over then.

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:44 pm

Yikes, RC for Cane!

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Post by tigertattie Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:44 pm

Wow.

Wow wow wow

Refs are loving the boks and hating the blacks tonight
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:45 pm

Given how the high shots have been referring so far this tournament its a surprise.

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Post by Geordie Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:45 pm

Game over

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Post by Duty281 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:45 pm

Oh wow! They've actually enforced the laws properly for the first time since Curry's red.

And that's game over. Don't think NZ were winning it with 15 to be honest, but it's definitely over now.

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Post by lostinwales Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:45 pm

Judged English

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Post by Poorfour Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:46 pm

BigGee wrote:Yikes, RC for Cane!

Really living up to the “sh*t Richie McCaw” tag.
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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:46 pm

Red pre-tournament for sure - but how many others like that have we seen during the tournament that have stayed yellow

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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:47 pm

yellow him - deliberate lazy running

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:48 pm

Heaf wrote:yellow him - deliberate lazy running
Very close. Not lazy pretty deliberate.

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Post by tigertattie Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:49 pm

The consistency of the bunker just swung back again

World rugby are going to need to look at what the hell has been going on. I’ve seen worse hits than that not even get penalised.

If it was a club game it’s a red. But this World Cup. Who the hell knows. Not me and not the players which makes a mockery of the whole thing
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:53 pm

tigertattie wrote:The consistency of the bunker just swung back again

World rugby are going to need to look at what the hell has been going on. I’ve seen worse hits than that not even get penalised.

If it was a club game it’s a red. But this World Cup. Who the hell knows. Not me and not the players which makes a mockery of the whole thing


Precisely. 8 weeks ago I nod that through and say good decision. Now after the last 6 weeks it seems really harsh.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:54 pm

Yes, Savea's surprise at learning of the upgrade probably mirrored everyone else who has been following this tournament.

Anyway, a very messy final with few moments of quality. South Africa on course for four WC victories, maintaining their 100% record in finals, a phenomenal feat.

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Post by Yoda Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:55 pm

This is what happens when there is a competent officiating team unlike the lot last night. Terrible tackle, red all day. It's nice to see the games laws being enforced for once.

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Post by Yoda Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:56 pm

Barnes going to get more toilets named after him in NZ after the red!

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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:59 pm

Yoda wrote:This is what happens when there is a competent officiating team unlike the lot last night. Terrible tackle, red all day. It's nice to see the games laws being enforced for once.

And therein lies the problem ... shame they weren't for the entire tournament

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Oct 28, 2023 8:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:Yes, Savea's surprise at learning of the upgrade probably mirrored everyone else who has been following this tournament.

Anyway, a very messy final with few moments of quality. South Africa on course for four WC victories, maintaining their 100% record in finals, a phenomenal feat.

Yeah and for me this will be their greatest ever win or possibly 95.

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Post by Taylorman Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:00 pm

Yoda wrote:This is what happens when there is a competent officiating team unlike the lot last night. Terrible tackle, red all day. It's nice to see the games laws being enforced for once.
Competent? Since when is falling on a foot a yellow?
Since when does a ref say oh sorry Ardie just saw the replay as Pollard kicks the obviously non penalty. Since when is a clear knock on by Faf , ‘went backwards’ when he drops it after trying to pick it up.
Barnes needs to go to Specsavers… again.

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Post by lostinwales Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:01 pm

Yoda wrote:Barnes going to get more toilets named after him in NZ after the red!

They'll blame him but the red was not his decision

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:01 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Yoda wrote:This is what happens when there is a competent officiating team unlike the lot last night. Terrible tackle, red all day. It's nice to see the games laws being enforced for once.
Competent? Since when is falling on a foot a yellow?
Since when does a ref say oh sorry Ardie just saw the replay as Pollard kicks the obviously non penalty. Since when is a clear knock on by Faf , ‘went backwards’ when he drops it after trying to pick it up.
Barnes needs to go to Specsavers… again.

It begins again.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:01 pm

I've watched all of the England games and a couple more here and there so was expecting that to be red based on Curry against Argentina. Sounds like there's been the usual inconsistency regarding these tackles throughout the tournament?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:03 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:I've watched all of the England games and a couple more here and there so was expecting that to be red based on Curry against Argentina. Sounds like there's been the usual inconsistency regarding these tackles throughout the tournament?

Everything other than Curry has been waved through as yellows.

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Post by Taylorman Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:03 pm

Yoda wrote:Barnes going to get more toilets named after him in NZ after the red!
Red was Canes fault. It’s the other things Barnes seems to be seeing that irks.

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Post by Taylorman Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Yoda wrote:This is what happens when there is a competent officiating team unlike the lot last night. Terrible tackle, red all day. It's nice to see the games laws being enforced for once.
Competent? Since when is falling on a foot a yellow?
Since when does a ref say oh sorry Ardie just saw the replay as Pollard kicks the obviously non penalty. Since when is a clear knock on by Faf , ‘went backwards’ when he drops it after trying to pick it up.
Barnes needs to go to Specsavers… again.

It begins again.
Barnes needs to improve. He’s seeing ghosts.
Mind you, the ABs need to improve even more. Du toit is killing us.


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Post by king_carlos Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:05 pm

Fair red for me. There's no dip and he's hit with force, first contact is shoulder to head.

I don't feel NZ are completely out of this though. I'd expect Foster and Schmidt to be nailing it into their playmakers that they kick for touch to force Fourie to throw lineouts. I'd also expect them to take some more risks with 50/22 chances balancing the lowered risk of putting it out on the full against attacking opportunities.

Presumably Kolisi will need to play 80 which he hasn't been doing recently due to Fourie being at hooker. Fourie at hooker should also limit the scrum impact that Ox can have by being a freak.

I have a feeling this could open up late. I reckon a few Boks will tire from their run of tough games whilst NZ will tire from being a man down.

There's always the chance of a yellow the other way to even the numbers for 10 minutes too.

Obviously, advantage SA but I don't think this is buried yet.

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Post by Heaf Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:05 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Yoda wrote:This is what happens when there is a competent officiating team unlike the lot last night. Terrible tackle, red all day. It's nice to see the games laws being enforced for once.
Competent? Since when is falling on a foot a yellow?
Since when does a ref say oh sorry Ardie just saw the replay as Pollard kicks the obviously non penalty. Since when is a clear knock on by Faf , ‘went backwards’ when he drops it after trying to pick it up.
Barnes needs to go to Specsavers… again.

It begins again.

He has a point re the the pen that went completely the wrong way ... if that doesn't happen everything after that point changes ....

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:05 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I've watched all of the England games and a couple more here and there so was expecting that to be red based on Curry against Argentina. Sounds like there's been the usual inconsistency regarding these tackles throughout the tournament?

Everything other than Curry has been waved through as yellows.

I can't remember the exact details as it was only the 'Bronze' match but the lack of action over a couple of tackles yesterday surprised me.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:05 pm

Taylorman wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Yoda wrote:This is what happens when there is a competent officiating team unlike the lot last night. Terrible tackle, red all day. It's nice to see the games laws being enforced for once.
Competent? Since when is falling on a foot a yellow?
Since when does a ref say oh sorry Ardie just saw the replay as Pollard kicks the obviously non penalty. Since when is a clear knock on by Faf , ‘went backwards’ when he drops it after trying to pick it up.
Barnes needs to go to Specsavers… again.

It begins again.
Barnes needs to improve. He’s seeing ghosts.

Fair enough. The best in the world needs to improve. God knows what you need to do in your job.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:07 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I've watched all of the England games and a couple more here and there so was expecting that to be red based on Curry against Argentina. Sounds like there's been the usual inconsistency regarding these tackles throughout the tournament?

Everything other than Curry has been waved through as yellows.

I can't remember the exact details as it was only the 'Bronze' match but the lack of action over a couple of tackles yesterday surprised me.

Ah the Dan fist to the head. Yeah fair enough.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:08 pm

Heaf wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Yoda wrote:This is what happens when there is a competent officiating team unlike the lot last night. Terrible tackle, red all day. It's nice to see the games laws being enforced for once.
Competent? Since when is falling on a foot a yellow?
Since when does a ref say oh sorry Ardie just saw the replay as Pollard kicks the obviously non penalty. Since when is a clear knock on by Faf , ‘went backwards’ when he drops it after trying to pick it up.
Barnes needs to go to Specsavers… again.

It begins again.

He has a point re the the pen that went completely the wrong way ... if that doesn't happen everything after that point changes ....

Yeah. If any decision changes everything after that point changes. Good point.

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Post by Poorfour Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:11 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:I've watched all of the England games and a couple more here and there so was expecting that to be red based on Curry against Argentina. Sounds like there's been the usual inconsistency regarding these tackles throughout the tournament?

Curry and a couple of other players got reds in the first round, but then there was a shift in the way the bunker was adjudging things and for most of the tournament it became almost impossible to get a red.

To give one example, Etzebeth’s high tackle on on Atonio in the QF was almost identical to the one that got Farrell a red card in the warm ups (and if anything Farrell had better mitigation because the tackled player was falling rather than just changing direction), but it stayed yellow.

But at least it’s been consistent for the past 6 weeks ago, until we get to the Final and it’s changed again.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:11 pm

Doubly not scored.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:12 pm

Did Dickson really think that was a try?

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