Irish Provincial teams for next year

First topic message reminder :

Genuinely interested on how Leinster and Munster will shape up over the coming year.
Thinking specifically what the teams will be during the Wc, what they will be after and what they will be at the end.

Below I have listed Ulster with a / being a position I am uncertain over:

15 - Payne, Payne, Payne
11 - Spence, Trimble, Trimble
13 - Cave, Cave/Spence, Cave/Spence
12 - Marshall, Wallace, Wallace/Marshall
11 - Gilroy, Danielli/Gilroy, Gilroy
10 - Humphreys, Humphreys, Humphreys
9 - Marshall, Pienaer, Pienaer
1 - McAllister, Court, McAllister/Court
2 - Kyriacou, Best, Best
3 - Fitzpatrick, Afoa, Afoa
4 - Muller, Muller, Muller
5 - Tuohy, Tuohy/Stevenson, Tuohy/Stevenson
6 - Henry, Ferris, Ferris
7 - Faloon, Faloon/Henry, Faloon/Henry
8 - Wannenberg, Wannenberg, Wannenberg

Assuming predictable WC squad selections i.e. no bolters
As you can see I reckon 2 internationals are Wallace and Court will be fighting to hold on to their provincial spot by the end of the season and that 1 Danielli will not make the team

red_stag wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:How far is it from the Sportsground into town?

Not far at all really. I was in Galway at weekend and went past it. They had Connacht rugby flags on the street lamps all along the street which was good to see.

It would be quite cool actually if season ticket holders could get a bus into Galway after the end of everygame and there is a pub that everyone goes to have a Connacht game. Somewhere in the centre and that is big enough for a couple of hundred people to come through the doors in the space of an hour, say anyone who is wearing a Connacht jersey gets a free pint or free admission or something

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

red_stag wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:How far is it from the Sportsground into town?

Not far at all really. I was in Galway at weekend and went past it. They had Connacht rugby flags on the street lamps all along the street which was good to see.

It would be quite cool actually if season ticket holders could get a bus into Galway after the end of everygame and there is a pub that everyone goes to have a Connacht game. Somewhere in the centre and that is big enough for a couple of hundred people to come through the doors in the space of an hour, say anyone who is wearing a Connacht jersey gets a free pint or free admission or something

I'm sure there must already be. Just the rest of us don't know about it.

If they put on a bus that would be a big step.

OnA,

That's presuming the Os do badly. I think they will be quite strong next year. They've gotten rid of underperforming players like Byrne and Phillips. Don't rule them out.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Someone up a bit said unster would be the perfect place for Bowe,

GOD NO! Back 3 is one of the only positions where you have really good quality and a bit of depth, makes 0 sense

We have ZERO depth in the back three! We have a grand total of five contracted back three players for 3 slots and one is leaving at the end of next season! A first choice winger who needs to be replaced by an Irish player due to the reduced number of NIQ players!

So at the end of next season, we'll need to sign an Irish player to play in the back three and people are suggesting Bowe goes to Leinster (!) who have a whole host of talented back three players coming through the system.

Basically we don't have enough back three players to be really competitive at the top level, but people think we should see one of the best players we have produced go to another province when he is good enough to play for us?

This nonsense needs to stop now! Tommy Bowe is an Ulsterman. There's no question over where he should play if he comes back to Ireland.

But if it was organised so there was a deal with Connacht rugby, a bus company and a certain pub.

If you aren't a season ticket holder you pay €x for the ticket to the game, maybe pay €2 towards a bus and then you get in free if you show your match ticket and get a free pint if you are wearing a Connacht jersey.

If I lived up in Galway I'd be all over that deal!!!!

Notch apologies missed the'm' that was Munster not Ulster

Notch wrote:This nonsense needs to stop now! Tommy Bowe is an Ulsterman. There's no question over where he should play if he comes back to Ireland.

Nonsense. Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddan and Mike Ross are all Munstermen. Felix Jones, Ian Keatley and Johne Murphy are all Leinstermen.

It is naiive to suggest you can only play for one province. The provinces need to have a spine of natives but there is scope for interprovincial movement.

Why don't you ask a Munster fan if he'd be happy with O'Connell at Leinster, or a Leinster fan if he wants to see O'Driscoll in an Ulster shirt?

We aspire to have the very best homegrown players in our team. The likelihood is if Bowe doesn't replace Danielli, we'll end up having to look overseas for a winger or if we can't do that we'll have to rely on Academy players in that position when Trimble and Gilroy are missing.

All the while Bowe is preventing a Munsterman or Leinsterman from competing for the shirt in their home province.

Jesus lads!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:But if it was organised so there was a deal with Connacht rugby, a bus company and a certain pub.

But after a match it's a 5 minute walk into Eyre Square, and this time it's downhill! No need for a bus really.

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:This nonsense needs to stop now! Tommy Bowe is an Ulsterman. There's no question over where he should play if he comes back to Ireland.

Nonsense. Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddan and Mike Ross are all Munstermen. Felix Jones, Ian Keatley and Johne Murphy are all Leinstermen.

It is naiive to suggest you can only play for one province. The provinces need to have a spine of natives but there is scope for interprovincial movement.

None of those players were good enough to make it in their home province before they left. Bowe has always been in the frame for a return and we never wanted to lose him in the first place.

The thing is, he's clearly good enough to play for Ulster. I doubt he'd want to play for anyone else in Ireland and why should we want to see him play for anyone else?

He's one of the top Ulster players right now- we need these guys back to have three strong provinces. Instead of blocking other players development in Leinster. Absolutely bizarre stuff on this thread.

but people think we should see one of the best players we have produced go to another province when he is good enough to play for us?

One person suggested it. An Ulster man in fact. I genuinely think people are getting too much into this. I don't think he will leave the Ospreys, especially now he's going out with a Welsh one.

I'm nearly sure he will sign for us next summer. Rumours he wanted to do so this year but he has a contract for the next year which he is honouring.

One thing is for certain is that Ulster will make a big bid for him anyway.

Are Ulster good enough for him though. To be fair to them they had a wonder season last year.

red_stag wrote:Are Ulster good enough for him though. To be fair to them they had a wonder season last year.

We had an ok season last year. We didn't win any trophies

Still it was very good for a team like Ulster.

It's just the start though

we'll have to rely on Academy players in that position when Trimble and Gilroy are missing.

So just like this year and that seemed to work out pretty well.

Notch wrote:It's just the start though

Exactly my point. I'm not suggesting that Bowe SHOULD go to Leinster/Munster etc. However the idea that he shouldn't as he an Ulsterman isn't enough IMO. He hasn't played for Ulster in years.

Gilroy was the Academy player last year. Danielli started all the big games. There's Gaston and Cochrane behind them right now and that's it.

Last year, we were lucky. We were lucky with injuries in the backline and we scraped through a few games when we weren't at full strength that we could have lost.

There's no doubt in my mind that we need to increase the strength in depth of our squad if we are to overtake Munster and compete with Leinster in the next five years.

Oh didn't realise it 5mins walk thought it was 5 min drive.

I like the idea of giving benefits to people who went to the game, tbh as many benfits/deals as possible to encourage people to go and watch it.

Also, the more we succeed the more players we will provide to the national side; ergo the more depth we will need.

If we maintain the size of the squad we have now over the next few years, we won't build on last year properly.

Notch wrote:Gilroy was the Academy player last year. Danielli started all the big games. There's Gaston and Cochrane behind them right now and that's it.

Last year, we were lucky. We were lucky with injuries in the backline and we scraped through a few games when we weren't at full strength that we could have lost.

There's no doubt in my mind that we need to increase the strength in depth of our squad if we are to overtake Munster and compete with Leinster in the next five years.

Yeah and then Gilroy will take Danielli's place and another Academy guy will come through. From what I've seen of Ulster schools rugby, there's some decent players coming through in the back three. That's how the cycle works. Plus next year, someone like Fionn Carr will most likely be on the market.


Oh and the Clermont comparison is unfair as not even Leinster have that kind of depth. We'll never compare to the French clubs given the amount of money they can spend on players.

How many free pints can Connacht give out before they're brought to court for making alco's out of their supporters!?

And 5 minutes walk is nothing, no need for a bus, sure it's 10 mins walk from the RDS to Koiley's loike.
Connacht are making the supporter experience better with improvements in facilities and the addition of the OCSC, all good moves. A decent run in the league and the Sportsground could be a great spot.

For those talking about Bowe for Leinster, we don't need any more bench warmers, Shaggy will keep us in business until Dennis Hickie produces an heir

I think the IRFU should do everything they can to get good Irish players who are playing oversea's back playing in Irish provinces, their own and if not their Connacht or another province that needs that type of player.

That's the best thing they could do, back up last year's performances and get a mid table finish and get Galway buzzing.
I just wish those players hadn't left this year cos I thought they could really have kicked on from last season.....

MBTGOG wrote:

Notch wrote:Gilroy was the Academy player last year. Danielli started all the big games. There's Gaston and Cochrane behind them right now and that's it.

Last year, we were lucky. We were lucky with injuries in the backline and we scraped through a few games when we weren't at full strength that we could have lost.

There's no doubt in my mind that we need to increase the strength in depth of our squad if we are to overtake Munster and compete with Leinster in the next five years.

Yeah and then Gilroy will take Danielli's place and another Academy guy will come through. From what I've seen of Ulster schools rugby, there's some decent players coming through in the back three. That's how the cycle works. Plus next year, someone like Fionn Carr will most likely be on the market.

Apparently Carr had signed for Ulster and we pulled out of the deal. I doubt he'll want to come back again!

Those players will come through, but we need another top class (Irish) winger to replace Danielli. Gilroy is still too young to be first choice for the really big games- although to be fair he will have developed in a years time- and if we can get Bowe, it would be a massive boost to us on and off the field.

I also feel that when Bowe comes back to Ulster, it will really help us sell the game in the three counties of Ulster outside Northern Ireland.

Connacht Rugby was featured on RTE's "The Business Programme" (Liam Toland interviewed Conor McSweeney who is chair of Board of Connacht's professional game).

At the moment they are operating under a small loss every year. The IRFU are committed for 3 years. Intend improving facilities & match day experience in Galway. They intend moving games around the Province (Athlone, Sligo & Castlebar) as well as having training days etc. around the province.

He said that they have got a lot of support from all the other provinces, but they bear in mind that all the other provinces are their competitors. They are also quite proud of producing players for Irish rugby and they feel it is up to themselves to make the Sean Cronin's and Ian Keatleys want to stay in Connacht and they hope they will be in that position in 3 years time.

Here is link if you want to listen to it:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/rabodirectpro12/highlights.html?3004151,3004151,flash,257

Edit: I should have added that they have great belief in Eric Elwood. From what was said, Eric could be to Connacht, what Declan Kidney was to Munster.

Notch wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

Notch wrote:Gilroy was the Academy player last year. Danielli started all the big games. There's Gaston and Cochrane behind them right now and that's it.

Last year, we were lucky. We were lucky with injuries in the backline and we scraped through a few games when we weren't at full strength that we could have lost.

There's no doubt in my mind that we need to increase the strength in depth of our squad if we are to overtake Munster and compete with Leinster in the next five years.

Yeah and then Gilroy will take Danielli's place and another Academy guy will come through. From what I've seen of Ulster schools rugby, there's some decent players coming through in the back three. That's how the cycle works. Plus next year, someone like Fionn Carr will most likely be on the market.

Apparently Carr had signed for Ulster and we pulled out of the deal. I doubt he'll want to come back again!

Those players will come through, but we need another top class (Irish) winger to replace Danielli. Gilroy is still too young to be first choice for the really big games- although to be fair he will have developed in a years time- and if we can get Bowe, it would be a massive boost to us on and off the field.

I also feel that when Bowe comes back to Ulster, it will really help us sell the game in the three counties of Ulster outside Northern Ireland.

It would be a massive boost for Ulster and if they have the chance to sign him, they shouldn't turn it down. BUT if they have the option of getting someone who improves the starting line up, then they need to go for him, because I think in a years time, Gilroy and Trimble will be one of the better wing combos in Europe.

Also, on the subject of the Ulster squad being too small, that is true but as you know, it takes time to grow the squad and that will happen as some more shrewd signings are made and more academy players come through the system.

Your team is looking really strong for next year actually.

Maybe a few issues with depth but realistically you guys are looking pretty good.
The way you want Bowe back, would feel the same about Wilson or Best??

Cheers Sin that looks good. Any more info for us?

Yeah. The depth is coming in some positions- centre and tight five. Halfbacks, back three and backrow we need a little more depth.

Even there though, Spence and Marshall can both play back3 at a push no?
Also would think halfbacks isn't that bad for you guys.

What do you think of Boss being at Leinster???????

They intend moving games around the Province (Athlone, Sligo & Castlebar) as well as having training days etc. around the province

Very important!

Pete,

DO NOT MENTION BEST!

Also sending some of their players to local clubs to give one off training days to younger players would be good, the idea of Gavin Duffy or John Muldoon coming to Athlone RFC to coach a few teams for a day would really galvanise kids, photo op, good publicity, feel good factor

"DO NOT MENTION BEST"

Sore subject then?
Boss? Wilson?

Spence can, but Marshall? Maybe fullback but I'd rather not.

I wish him well Pete. I would have liked to see him stay and I would like him to come back some day, but the reason he left was Pienaar and the wages he commands- means Boss wasn't offered a good contract as second choice. And he thought he could get ahead of Reddan a lot easier than Pienaar and get back into the Ireland frame.

It was our fault he left really- and when discussions started, he had not been playing at all well for a long time. Then his form picked up but by the time it did we'd already decided to replace him with a 'world class 9' and his fate was all but sealed.

Believe me, nothing would make me happier to see him at the World Cup. The guy is a legend

I think there was also a perception that Boss was the wrong style of scrum-half for us as well by the management. We wanted a guy who can provide better, faster service to his 10 compared to Isaacs physical running game.

MBTGOG wrote:If they put on a bus that would be a big step.

OnA,

That's presuming the Os do badly. I think they will be quite strong next year. They've gotten rid of underperforming players like Byrne and Phillips. Don't rule them out.

Well, I have never really rated the O's, i think that they flatter to deceive. They have a strong pack for sure but a few injuries and that was wiped out. I think many of the other big teams are much stronger in depth and this was shown last year.

I agree that they have gotten rid of under performing players, but why were they under performing in the first place???? I dont think all is well in the state of Ospreylia.

No, don't get me wrong, u never underestimate them as they are a talented bunch but watching them capitulate to Munster after playing us off the park for most of the game last season kinda sums the O's up for me. All talk, no

MBTGOG wrote:
One person suggested it. An Ulster man in fact.

Feck Munsty keep your voice down you'll get me lynched at Ravenhill. I was just thinking out loud!

My heart says Ulster is where he belongs. My head say's Leinster might be a more logical move for him to take his game to the next level.

And before anyone points out that Leinster have plenty of quality, it's more to do with the age profile of their outside backs compared to ours. Shaggy, D'arcy, BOD are all getting on and Nacewa is no spring chicken either. For us Trimble is the senior guy in the outside backs and the other guys will be hitting their early/ mid 20's come Bowe's estimated time of arrival. Who knows how long Payne will stay or how he will fair.

Obviously if Gilroy, Spence, D'arcy, Cave and Marshall don't kick on this season and Payne is a dud then I would feel different but I'm confident that these guys can step up to the plate and take us forward, in which case Bowe to me would be a 'nice to have' rather than a vital signing.

Maybe I'm talking nonsence though and Notch is right.

Notch wrote:Spence can, but Marshall? Maybe fullback but I'd rather not.

I wish him well Pete. I would have liked to see him stay and I would like him to come back some day, but the reason he left was Pienaar and the wages he commands- means Boss wasn't offered a good contract as second choice. And he thought he could get ahead of Reddan a lot easier than Pienaar and get back into the Ireland frame.

It was our fault he left really- and when discussions started, he had not been playing at all well for a long time. Then his form picked up but by the time it did we'd already decided to replace him with a 'world class 9' and his fate was all but sealed.

Believe me, nothing would make me happier to see him at the World Cup. The guy is a legend

Didn't Boss leave before Pienaar was signed? Wasn't it Peel that they chose ahead of him?

I'm pretty sure Marshall could play full back. He's got all the requisite skills to play there and he has done so at underage.

When the prodigal son returned the father killed the fatted calf. He didn't mumble something about the age profile of his other children and then send him to work for a rival farmer

Notch wrote:When the prodigal son returned the father killed the fatted calf. He didn't mumble something about the age profile of his other children and then send him to work for a rival farmer

MBTGOG wrote:

Notch wrote:Spence can, but Marshall? Maybe fullback but I'd rather not.

I wish him well Pete. I would have liked to see him stay and I would like him to come back some day, but the reason he left was Pienaar and the wages he commands- means Boss wasn't offered a good contract as second choice. And he thought he could get ahead of Reddan a lot easier than Pienaar and get back into the Ireland frame.

It was our fault he left really- and when discussions started, he had not been playing at all well for a long time. Then his form picked up but by the time it did we'd already decided to replace him with a 'world class 9' and his fate was all but sealed.

Believe me, nothing would make me happier to see him at the World Cup. The guy is a legend

Didn't Boss leave before Pienaar was signed? Wasn't it Peel that they chose ahead of him?

I'm pretty sure Marshall could play full back. He's got all the requisite skills to play there and he has done so at underage.

Yeah, you're right sorry. There was a period where we thought we would end up with no-one! The decision was made pretty early on to replace him (thats when he started playing out of his skin- may have been exactly what he needed, something to prove) and our search for a 9 left him looking further afield.

OnASideNote wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:If they put on a bus that would be a big step.

OnA,

That's presuming the Os do badly. I think they will be quite strong next year. They've gotten rid of underperforming players like Byrne and Phillips. Don't rule them out.

Well, I have never really rated the O's, i think that they flatter to deceive. They have a strong pack for sure but a few injuries and that was wiped out. I think many of the other big teams are much stronger in depth and this was shown last year.

I agree that they have gotten rid of under performing players, but why were they under performing in the first place???? I dont think all is well in the state of Ospreylia.

No, don't get me wrong, u never underestimate them as they are a talented bunch but watching them capitulate to Munster after playing us off the park for most of the game last season kinda sums the O's up for me. All talk, no

To be fair though, this is the side that won the Magners League the season before last away to Leinster. Still made the semis this year as well. They have some good young players as well coming through. I certainly would not write them off and would say they will come ahead of Ulster and possibly Munster this season.

"It was our fault he left really- and when discussions started, he had not been playing at all well for a long time. Then his form picked up but by the time it did we'd already decided to replace him with a 'world class 9' and his fate was all but sealed.

Believe me, nothing would make me happier to see him at the World Cup. The guy is a legend "

I have to say I am glad this is the attitude you have would have been a tiny little bit hypocritical otherwise!
Pretty sure Marshall has played 15 before.

Notch wrote:When the prodigal son returned the father killed the fatted calf. He didn't mumble something about the age profile of his other children and then send him to work for a rival farmer

Well Notch may a bolt of lightening strike me down! Bowes return to the Ulster fold has been prophasised in the great book itself! I stand corrected!

MBTGOG wrote:
To be fair though, this is the side that won the Magners League the season before last away to Leinster. Still made the semis this year as well. They have some good young players as well coming through. I certainly would not write them off and would say they will come ahead of Ulster and possibly Munster this season.

I think those three teams will all be quite close in the table, could finish in any sort of order.

Notch wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:
To be fair though, this is the side that won the Magners League the season before last away to Leinster. Still made the semis this year as well. They have some good young players as well coming through. I certainly would not write them off and would say they will come ahead of Ulster and possibly Munster this season.

I think those three teams will all be quite close in the table, could finish in any sort of order.

I'm not saying it will be comfortable for the Ospreys but I do see them finishing second in the league behind Leinster next season.

As much as I love it when we beat the Ospreys and hate losing to them, the league needs the Welsh teams to be stronger than last season.

MBT_

I really don't see that happening. Can see them being outside the top 4 or just sneaking in.

Anybody going to the Ireland vs Connacht game by any chance???

Thinking of it Pete, but it's on a Thursday now.

I'm coming down to Dublin in the Friday night and going to Leinster vs Rebels, then Ireland vs France. Going to the Connacht game will be really awkward though...

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:MBT_

I really don't see that happening. Can see them being outside the top 4 or just sneaking in.

Anybody going to the Ireland vs Connacht game by any chance???

Why can't you see it happening? I bet a lot of people didn't see Ulster making the top 4 last season either. A lot of people were backing the Blues to have a big season and Munster to fall down dramatically.

I'd be shocked if the Ospreys don't make the play-offs.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:MBT_

I really don't see that happening. Can see them being outside the top 4 or just sneaking in.

Anybody going to the Ireland vs Connacht game by any chance???

No, i said i would never underestimate them.

But what with more of their Int stars going to the wc i think they are poorer equipped than Munster and Leinster.........

Injuries will play a big part.......