Irish Provincial teams for next year

First topic message reminder :

Genuinely interested on how Leinster and Munster will shape up over the coming year.
Thinking specifically what the teams will be during the Wc, what they will be after and what they will be at the end.

Below I have listed Ulster with a / being a position I am uncertain over:

15 - Payne, Payne, Payne
11 - Spence, Trimble, Trimble
13 - Cave, Cave/Spence, Cave/Spence
12 - Marshall, Wallace, Wallace/Marshall
11 - Gilroy, Danielli/Gilroy, Gilroy
10 - Humphreys, Humphreys, Humphreys
9 - Marshall, Pienaer, Pienaer
1 - McAllister, Court, McAllister/Court
2 - Kyriacou, Best, Best
3 - Fitzpatrick, Afoa, Afoa
4 - Muller, Muller, Muller
5 - Tuohy, Tuohy/Stevenson, Tuohy/Stevenson
6 - Henry, Ferris, Ferris
7 - Faloon, Faloon/Henry, Faloon/Henry
8 - Wannenberg, Wannenberg, Wannenberg

Assuming predictable WC squad selections i.e. no bolters
As you can see I reckon 2 internationals are Wallace and Court will be fighting to hold on to their provincial spot by the end of the season and that 1 Danielli will not make the team

If Healy got injured I am sure Court would start.
Will Horan even play for Ireland again ? - questionable

geoff998rugby wrote:If Healy got injured I am sure Court would start.
Will Horan even play for Ireland again ? - questionable

Court can't start. What happens if he does start and gets injured and say, Tony Buckley is on the bench? (Believe me, Tony Buckley cannot play LH).

Horan has started the last 3 matches for Munster (v. Leinster, Ospreys & Connacht) - hard to ignore that considering Munster has a decent alternative with Wian.

Horan doesn't really seem to be international standard anymore, think he is even a bad prop for HCup level too.

Sorry: For a side aiming to win the HCup or at least go far in it he is a bad prop

Dont really want to get too involved in this one but just to point out that Munsters stability in the scrum improved on Horans return..........

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sorry: For a side aiming to win the HCup or at least go far in it he is a bad prop

Whats your point? Facts are he was selected to start against the Ospreys, (who have a very good scrum), ahead of Wian du Preez. While not dominant, Munster held their own that day. Unlike previous occasions this season when playing them.

How do you explain Leinster's success in the Heineken Cup if they can give away a penalty try to Munster in the Magner' final.

The thing for Horan is that unless healy is injured he wont makeit and after the rwc McAllister will be coming through. the timing doesnt look good for him being in the green again

because they had played a HCup final a week before but let's not go there.

I don't think Marcus will go to RWC and after the warm ups I don't think he will play in green again which is sad because he definitely was a fantastic player for Ireland.

Agreed - fantastic winger for Ireland was Horan.

That cross field against NZ wasn't it?!

Sin-
Do you reckon he will retire from Munster at the end of this season coming or does he have til 2013?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:That cross field against NZ wasn't it?!

Sin-
Do you reckon he will retire from Munster at the end of this season coming or does he have til 2013?

Isn't he on a rolling contract?

Standulstermen wrote:The thing for Horan is that unless healy is injured he wont makeit and after the rwc McAllister will be coming through. the timing doesnt look good for him being in the green again

Thats the point I was making. If Healy is injured/suspended or whatever, Horan will be starting. The future doesn't look great then for Tom Court with McAllister breathing down his neck. Brett Wilkinson is also Ireland qualified, but none of them have the experience.

Not certain i would agree he would start Sin but i do get your point. Court will definately be under pressure though i agree

Standulstermen wrote:Not certain i would agree he would start Sin but i do get your point. Court will definately be under pressure though i agree

+1

Have to say for all our worrying a number of years ago about our prop situation it seems "ok" we have a replacement for Hayes and there seems to be something of a line of succession

Tis good me thinks

Indeed we potentially have two outstanding LH's in their low 20's. TH is slightly trickier. Hagan potentially but beyond that there arent many young uns i have heard of

Sin é wrote:
Court can't start. What happens if he does start and gets injured and say, Tony Buckley is on the bench? (Believe me, Tony Buckley cannot play LH).

Nonsense!

He can go backwards just as fast at LH as he can at TH.

I really hope Healy has no injuries before McAllister is up to speed. I don't like the options much.

Court was late into propping and Rugby in general, I hold out a small hope that he has room for improvement in the scrum.

I also reckon that if Healy did get hurt during the WC, the plan would be to start Court with Buckley on the bench.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:because they had played a HCup final a week before but let's not go there.

I don't think Marcus will go to RWC and after the warm ups I don't think he will play in green again which is sad because he definitely was a fantastic player for Ireland.

Before we leave it though, lets record that Healy played 30 mins in the HCup final and Stan didn't play at all. Neither started the Magners final.

Pete, you think that Denis Leamy has a discipinary problem and Sean O'Brien doesn't.

The injury plagued Darragh Hurley is also an option at loosehead. Has played Heineken Cup, played for Ireland Wolfhounds and still only 25 years old.

Sin é wrote:
Pete, you think that Denis Leamy has a discipinary problem and Sean O'Brien doesn't.

Doesn't everyone?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Court can't start. What happens if he does start and gets injured and say, Tony Buckley is on the bench? (Believe me, Tony Buckley cannot play LH).

Nonsense!

He can go backwards just as fast at LH as he can at TH.

I really hope Healy has no injuries before McAllister is up to speed. I don't like the options much.

Court was late into propping and Rugby in general, I hold out a small hope that he has room for improvement in the scrum.

I also reckon that if Healy did get hurt during the WC, the plan would be to start Court with Buckley on the bench.

I'd say Declan Kidney has reoccuring nightmares about the last time he had to use Buckley at loosehead (against Gloucester in HCup semi). Poor old Puc was in his suit having a burger when he was told to put on his boots. About 10 minutes later Puc was playing in a Heineken Cup semi final).

Horan had got a back spasm in the warmup.

Gloucester was the quarter final

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Pete, you think that Denis Leamy has a discipinary problem and Sean O'Brien doesn't.

Doesn't everyone?

Only people in denial


Edit - you are correct RS - it was the QF.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:because they had played a HCup final a week before but let's not go there.

I don't think Marcus will go to RWC and after the warm ups I don't think he will play in green again which is sad because he definitely was a fantastic player for Ireland.

Before we leave it though, lets record that Healy played 30 mins in the HCup final and Stan didn't play at all. Neither started the Magners final.
Pete, you think that Denis Leamy has a discipinary problem and Sean O'Brien doesn't.

Healy played 60 minutes.

First of all Sin, didn't realise Healy only got 30mins in the HCup final, pretty sure that is wrong.

http://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/match_facts/0,20243,11069_47014_1,00.html

Second of all I have never said that Sean O'Brien did not have a discipline problem

Thirdly I still believe Leamy has got poor discipline

We can agree to disagree no??

Sin é wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
I also reckon that if Healy did get hurt during the WC, the plan would be to start Court with Buckley on the bench.

I'd say Declan Kidney has reoccuring nightmares about the last time he had to use Buckley at loosehead (against Gloucester in HCup semi). Poor old Puc was in his suit having a burger when he was told to put on his boots. About 10 minutes later Puc was playing in a Heineken Cup semi final).

Horan had got a back spasm in the warmup.

I remember it ok. But even though he may well have the nightmares, that would still be the plan. I reckon.

Horan would be, at best, 6th choice prop behind Hayes. Baring injury.

If Court got hurt, it would also be Buckley to the bench.

Let's just pray for the safety of our 3 main props. And thank the gods that Kidney was FORCED to pick Ross in the 6N.

"Horan would be, at best, 6th choice prop behind Hayes. Baring injury.

If Court got hurt, it would also be Buckley to the bench.

Let's just pray for the safety of our 3 main props. And thank the gods that Kidney was FORCED to pick Ross in the 6N."

+1

Sean O'Brien had two incidents this year where he could have seen a few weeks from a sighting,against Treviso he seemed to gouge an opponent and the Nyanga incident. While he didn't see time for either he could have easily been caught.

Leamy,from what I know has never seen significant times from sightings but he has a penchant for giving away dumb and needless penalties.

I'm backing Leamy to have a good 2011-2012 season.

red_stag wrote:I'm backing Leamy to have a good 2011-2012 season.

I hope he does too, accept against Leinster obviously.

Thomond wrote:Sean O'Brien had two incidents this year where he could have seen a few weeks from a sighting,against Treviso he seemed to gouge an opponent and the Nyanga incident. While he didn't see time for either he could have easily been caught.

Leamy,from what I know has never seen significant times from sightings but he has a penchant for giving away dumb and needless penalties.

Ah yes. but you can't be suspended just for a sighting. You have to be cited because of those sightings. Then a citing committee has to find you guilty as a result of that citing. Then you can be punished.

2011-12 will be the year of the youngster. heard it here first

He was cited for the second incident but amazingly he wasn't punished. It was joke in my opinon.

Thomond wrote:He was cited for the second incident but amazingly he wasn't punished. It was joke in my opinon.

He wasn't cited for digging Nyanga if that's what you're talking about.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:First of all Sin, didn't realise Healy only got 30mins in the HCup final, pretty sure that is wrong.

http://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/match_facts/0,20243,11069_47014_1,00.html

Second of all I have never said that Sean O'Brien did not have a discipline problem

Thirdly I still believe Leamy has got poor discipline

We can agree to disagree no??

Made a mistake there - he played 60 mins ok. In fact he played exactly 80 mins of rugby in the two games. (Same as 37 year old John Hayes).

And while I think of it, Healy topped the table at giving away penaltie in the 6Ns with 11, closely followed by O'Brien who gave away 7 penalties. Wally gave away 2, Heaslip 3 (all similar amounts of gametime).


Can you back up your theory about Leamy's poor discipline. If he has, he doesn't get carded or give away penalties (I've supplied the facts to you before). What are you basing this 'belief' on?

Was he not Mick? I thought he was called to a meeting,apologies.

He should have been though,no denying that.

Made a mistake there - he played 60 mins ok. In fact he played exactly 80 mins of rugby in the two games. (Same as 37 year old John Hayes).

The difference being that Healy played 2 weeks in a row. Whereas Hayes and the other lads in red had their feet up the previous week.

Mickado wrote:

Made a mistake there - he played 60 mins ok. In fact he played exactly 80 mins of rugby in the two games. (Same as 37 year old John Hayes).

The difference being that Healy played 2 weeks in a row. Whereas Hayes and the other lads in red had their feet up the previous week.

Well, they might just have to play 2 weeks in a row in the world cup. And with 22 in the match day squad, one of the props is going to have to do 80 mins x 2 in 7 days.

Leamys discipline is appalling, probably gives away more penalties than all the leinster players combined.

There you Sin its a freebie because its the bank holiday weekend.
Go nuts

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Made a mistake there - he played 60 mins ok. In fact he played exactly 80 mins of rugby in the two games. (Same as 37 year old John Hayes).

The difference being that Healy played 2 weeks in a row. Whereas Hayes and the other lads in red had their feet up the previous week.

Well, they might just have to play 2 weeks in a row in the world cup. And with 22 in the match day squad, one of the props is going to have to do 80 mins x 2 in 7 days.

Yea but they wont be on the rubberaton for the week before the game either.

High profile card against Italy does stick in the memory in fairness Sin.

Feagh McHugh wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Made a mistake there - he played 60 mins ok. In fact he played exactly 80 mins of rugby in the two games. (Same as 37 year old John Hayes).

The difference being that Healy played 2 weeks in a row. Whereas Hayes and the other lads in red had their feet up the previous week.

Well, they might just have to play 2 weeks in a row in the world cup. And with 22 in the match day squad, one of the props is going to have to do 80 mins x 2 in 7 days.

Yea but they wont be on the rubberaton for the week before the game either.

So they couldn't contain themselves for a week so that they could prove their complete dominance of Irish rugby? Its not as if it was their first Heineken Cup. What makes you think they won't go on the razz at the world cup if Ireland beat Australia?

I basing my opinions on watching games not surfing the net.

I think Leamy's discipline is quite poor not necessarily in the penalties he gives away but in the manner he gives them away they generally seem to be something quite silly. The "do you want to get moved 10m back?" "yes!" thing comes to mind immediatly.

If you still have the page open Sin do you know how many penalties DOC and Best conceed?

It was the first HCup for some of them.
Winning a HCup is a much bigger deal than beating Australia the two are incompareable.

Sin é wrote:

Feagh McHugh wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Made a mistake there - he played 60 mins ok. In fact he played exactly 80 mins of rugby in the two games. (Same as 37 year old John Hayes).

The difference being that Healy played 2 weeks in a row. Whereas Hayes and the other lads in red had their feet up the previous week.

Well, they might just have to play 2 weeks in a row in the world cup. And with 22 in the match day squad, one of the props is going to have to do 80 mins x 2 in 7 days.

Yea but they wont be on the rubberaton for the week before the game either.

So they couldn't contain themselves for a week so that they could prove their complete dominance of Irish rugby? Its not as if it was their first Heineken Cup. What makes you think they won't go on the razz at the world cup if Ireland beat Australia?

Dam it Sin I never thought of that! Deccie should include some drunken training sessions in the schedule to be on the safe side?!

Year of the youngster:

01 Paddy McAllister
02 Mike Sherry
03 Jamie Hagan
04 Andrew Browne
05 Ian Nagle
06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Dominic Ryan
08 Rhys Ruddock
09 Paul O'Donoghue
10 Ian Keatley
11 Simon Zebo
12 Luke Marshall
13 Eoin O'Malley
14 Andrew Conway
15 Scott Deasy

If Ireland had an International tomorrow and Healy was injured Court and Ross would start and Horan would be on the bench. Court would go to TH if Ross got injured.

If we had the same situation in a years time McAllister would be on the bench not Horan.

geoff998rugby wrote:If Ireland had an International tomorrow and Healy was injured Court and Ross would start and Horan would be on the bench. Court would go to TH if Ross got injured.

If we had the same situation in a years time McAllister would be on the bench not Horan.

Agree

geoff998rugby wrote:If Ireland had an International tomorrow and Healy was injured Court and Ross would start and Horan would be on the bench. Court would go to TH if Ross got injured.

If we had the same situation in a years time McAllister would be on the bench not Horan.

I don't believe that is what that coaches would do. I see the logic in it, I might even agree (at a push) but I don't believe it. In an interview about a week or two before the 6N, Gert Smal said that Tony Buckley was the man, and that they had "invested" a lot of time in him etc.

Bring on McAllister is all I can say. The sooner the better. He's a huge fecker, Can he play TH too?

Hopefully we will get 23 man squads at intl level soon too.

Feagh McHugh wrote:Leamys discipline is appalling, probably gives away more penalties than all the leinster players combined.

There you Sin its a freebie because its the bank holiday weekend.
Go nuts

Thanks. Happy Days

red_stag wrote:Year of the youngster:

01 Paddy McAllister
02 Mike Sherry
03 Jamie Hagan
04 Andrew Browne
05 Ian Nagle
06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Dominic Ryan
08 Rhys Ruddock
09 Paul O'Donoghue
10 Ian Keatley
11 Simon Zebo
12 Luke Marshall
13 Eoin O'Malley
14 Andrew Conway
15 Scott Deasy

Is it youngsters or unestablished players?? If youngsters then.....

01 Cian Healy/Paddy McAllister
02 Sean Cronin/Mike Sherry
03 Jamie Hagan
04 Andrew Browne (big season for Dan Tuohy and Donnacha Ryan too also think McLaughlin will be pushed here more)
05 Ian Nagle
06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Dominic Ryan
08 Rhys Ruddock
09 Conor Murray/Paul O'Donoghue
10 Ian Keatley
11 Craig Gilroy/Simon Zebo
12 Fergus McFadden/Luke Marshall
13 Nevin Spence/Eoin O'Malley
14 Andrew Conway
15 Felix Jones/Scott Deasy

I agree I think the cycle will start again towards the RWC and that we will start rebuilding pretty early on.

Craig Gilroy has got to be there after his debut season at the age of 19.