Scots Reunite! The Summer Tour Thread.

by KickAndChase Thu 03 May 2012, 10:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Despite the anger it invites from many Scottish posters (more as a place to vent than the cause) I miss the standard Scotland thread. With Edinburgh's success in the Heineken Cup and what looks like Glasgow's in the RABO we have two semi finals under our belt in club rugby. Can the players finally overcome the friction with their coaching team and display this on the pitch? Who would be your picks for the summer tour squad and match day 22s? Do you think we will win a match this year?

No news on squad size yet (I believe) but we can speculate. I do think we will beat one of Fiji & Samoa and also the Waratahs, but that's it. Anyone able to instill that misguided Scottish faith back into me??? kiss

by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 May 2012, 5:48 pm

Yes, I was being generous. I'm assuming Hamilton will be "unavailable".

Wilson and MacKenzie are also out injured. Not sure of their return. Were both fit I'd have them involved.

I think Pyrgos is getting better, but I'd still go with Cusiter personally.

by 123456789 Mon 07 May 2012, 6:31 pm

This might sound a bit far-fetched but if Hamilton is out does Andy Robinson have to do the unthinkable and select someone new for his squad and perhaps with the busy schedule will he have to play him?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 May 2012, 10:35 pm

It'll certainly test him and his selection policy.

It's a real shame MacKenzie is injured, because I'd really like to see him getting a chance in a Scotland jersey.

Still, with Gilchrist and Ryder playing really well at the moment, hopefully one of them will have a chance. What I don't want is for Robinson to just pick Kellock with Gray because he's "experienced". Ryder has ousted him from the Glasgow team and Gilchrist is playing well for Edinburgh at a high level. Let's not just be boring and pick the same old guy, who frankly is in a bit of a pit of form at the moment.

by KickAndChase Tue 08 May 2012, 7:43 am

Just to let you all know, we're playing the Cook Islands with our first XV so we can actually win a match this year.

Luckily our "first XV" according to AR includes SLamont at 12, Morrison at 13 Nikki Walker and Simon Danielli back in the starting line up, a surprise call up for Scott at fullback just to ruin his entire international career, etc ...

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 08 May 2012, 10:17 am

It's already been said here, I think the main target for this Tour is to nail Matt Scott onto the 12 position. To begin with give him his club mates at 10 and 13 to help him settle down.

Laidlaw is the best 10 in Scotland at the moment and whilst I think he will eventually rotate back to 9 for the moment I'm happy to go with the following team for the sake of continuity :

1. Welsh
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Gray
5. Gilchrist
6. Harley
7. Rennie
8. Denton

9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. De Luca
14. Jones/Brown
15. Hogg

16. MacArthur
17. Cross
18. Ryder
19. Fusaro
20. Weir
21. Dunbar
22. Brown/Jones

The logic being we have Laidlaw move to scrum half if neccesary and Weir or Scott can move to 10 if neccesary.

by **RDW** Tue 08 May 2012, 10:50 am

Like the team Radge. Is quite inexperienced, especially in the forwards, and I worry they are a bit soft, but this is the kind of tour to test these guys out.

I would worry about Moray Low too - he's been great recently but I can't help think that it wouldn't take much for him to have his ass handed to him, lose all his confidence and go backwards as a player again.

Dunbar as an impact sub is a great shout.

by nickj Tue 08 May 2012, 11:16 am

Was Hamilton really at fault at the weekend? I thought Paice provoked him and Hamilton put him on his arse. Surely Big Jim won't get banned for too long?

I think we'll really miss Hamilton if he does miss the tour. Not only in the scrum but also in the lineout.

By all means pick Gilchrist and Ryder in the squad but neither are first choice in my eyes.

Gray is not nasty enough for me. I really hope Diamond teaches him a thing or two in Salford.

We risk getting walloped by everyone, bar the Cook Islands, without a decent and reasonably experienced scrum.

by **RDW** Tue 08 May 2012, 11:25 am

I think Hamilton was the worst at fault, and should get a lengthy ban. Not sure who started the first one, but as they walked off the pitch Paice was giving him verbals and pushed him, but that doesn't give Hamilton the right to react like that and punch Paice twice in the face. Take that away from a rugby pitch and it is assault.

What ban did Tuilagi get for a similar incident with Ashton? It was almost identical really - Ashton said something and pushed him, Tuialgi then punched him in the face!

by nickj Tue 08 May 2012, 11:49 am

Ah I see. Fairly cut and dried then. We'll miss him for sure.

by nickj Tue 08 May 2012, 11:49 am

Tuilagi got 5 weeks.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 08 May 2012, 1:27 pm

nickj wrote:Gray is not nasty enough for me. I really hope Diamond teaches him a thing or two in Salford.

Getting from the training ground to his car in Salford should toughen him up!!

by nickj Tue 08 May 2012, 1:30 pm

Ha. I drove past the stadium over the weekend. It looks pretty decent. Not sure where Sale train but it doesnt look too dodgy.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 08 May 2012, 1:33 pm

I've never been either. I was just making snotty assumptions about the north of England...... I'm sure it's lovely...

by **RDW** Thu 10 May 2012, 3:14 pm

Just been announced that Dave Denton is out for 8-10 weeks with an ankle injury, and Lee jones is out for 8 weeks.

Think we'll cover Jones OK, but Denton is a massive blow for us. Are there any number 8s left??

Vernon maybe but he's barely played - is McInally back fit??

I hope to God he doesn't pick Barclay at 8...

In other news Jim Hamilton is banned for 7 weeks so will miss the tour. Not a massive blow because we have fairly good strength in depth there now.

by Captain_Sensible Thu 10 May 2012, 3:15 pm

by justified sinner Thu 10 May 2012, 3:16 pm

Oh and Danielli has retired due to a back injury.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 10 May 2012, 3:23 pm

V bad news, fellas - Denton and Jones ruled out of the summer tour with injury. Opportunity to get McInally and T Brown on board?

Braveheart

by **RDW** Thu 10 May 2012, 3:25 pm

Asbo - started a new thread about it to also include Hamilton being banned for the tour.

If youse think I should just merge it into here I'll do that.

by **RDW** Thu 10 May 2012, 3:25 pm

Yeah didn't think that was news worthy... Run

by **George Carlin** Thu 10 May 2012, 3:27 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:V bad news, fellas - Denton and Jones ruled out of the summer tour with injury. Opportunity to get McInally and T Brown on board?

Asbo, you've just pooed in the salad for my weekend.

What is wrong with Denton?

by justified sinner Thu 10 May 2012, 3:28 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just been announced that Dave Denton is out for 8-10 weeks with an ankle injury, and Lee jones is out for 8 weeks.

Think we'll cover Jones OK, but Denton is a massive blow for us. Are there any number 8s left??

Vernon maybe but he's barely played - is McInally back fit??

I hope to God he doesn't pick Barclay at 8...

In other news Jim Hamilton is banned for 7 weeks so will miss the tour. Not a massive blow because we have fairly good strength in depth there now.

OK, so now we're missing Brown, Denton, Hamilton, from the forwards and Jones from the backs, not sure if Vernon is fit or not.

I know we have good locks coming through in Gilchrist and Ryder, but AR will pick the ruck inspector, so losing Jim worries me a lot. Back row looking a bit dodgy too, would like to see Harley, Rennie, Barclay with McInally on the bench, Breakdown impact would be immense, but AR will do something strange.

by **George Carlin** Thu 10 May 2012, 3:28 pm

justified sinner wrote:Oh and Danielli has retired due to a back injury.

So, at worst, a mixed day for Scottish rugby.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 10 May 2012, 3:33 pm

George Carlin wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:V bad news, fellas - Denton and Jones ruled out of the summer tour with injury. Opportunity to get McInally and T Brown on board?

Asbo, you've just pooed in the salad for my weekend.

What is wrong with Denton?

Ankle ligaments for Denton, broken shoulder for Jones

Sorry about your salad, GC

by nickj Thu 10 May 2012, 3:33 pm

Hamilton will be hugely missed. The youngsters are just not hard enough yet. Nor are the street wise enough IMO. I think our scrum will really struggle too.

Denton and Jones have played a heck of a lot of rugby this season, perhaps them being out is a blessing in disguise. Although I do worry about the form of our back up 8's.

by justified sinner Thu 10 May 2012, 3:33 pm

At least it'll stop AR picking Danielli!

by highland_scot Thu 10 May 2012, 3:36 pm

At least with Danielli retiring he won't be replacing Lee Jones in the squad. Nikki Walker anyone?... steam

Hi everyone by the way, have been lurking a while but only just got round to joining!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 10 May 2012, 3:40 pm

Vernon is fit, and has had 2 games off the bench for Sale in the last 4 or 5. But he's not up to the task, so no point in taking him. Bite the bullet, we know that Robinson will play Barclay at 8 now, so that gives McInally a chance to tour

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 10 May 2012, 3:41 pm

highland, welcome to v2

I suppose that Walker is a possibility, but I'm hoping that Max Evans is seen as a more like4like alternative - but you never know with Robinson! Could also be an opportunity for young Tom Brown too?

by **RDW** Thu 10 May 2012, 3:44 pm

Merged my topic into this one.

by Cryptoyourisan Thu 10 May 2012, 3:47 pm

justified sinner wrote:At least it'll stop AR picking Danielli!

You're having a giraffe! Robinson will probably just steal a mannequin from M&S, put Danielli's shirt and a crude, home-made mullet on it and play it on the wing. It'll probably be an improvement on Danielli, though.

by flyhalffactory Thu 10 May 2012, 3:59 pm

Hey everyone
Been out of the country for the last five weeks grrrrrrr can't believe I missed one of (if not the most) important match in our history, thanks for the invite as well guys

As far as the tour is concerned I hope AR bleeds in some of the youngsters, and leaves Schlong, Morrison, Rory etc at home.

I would like Weir to start at 10, with Laidlaw at 9, Hogg has to play 15, altho I would like Brown to be pushing him on tour for the FB slot

Gutted that Denton is out, (We may have to pull Hines out of retirement) McInally pushed to 8 ? ooooh heck

Its good to be back !!

by **RDW** Thu 10 May 2012, 3:59 pm

highland_scot wrote:At least with Danielli retiring he won't be replacing Lee Jones in the squad. Nikki Walker anyone?...

Hi everyone by the way, have been lurking a while but only just got round to joining!

Welcome to the mad house!

by justified sinner Thu 10 May 2012, 4:03 pm

Can't we just parachute Maitland in instead of Jones? Close to home after all. Whistle

by Cryptoyourisan Thu 10 May 2012, 4:09 pm

So, what do we think the Test team will be? I hope Jon Welsh gets a decent run at loose-head and that Pat MacArthur at least gets a shot in one of the non-capped games. As for number eight, we're kind of knackered - Barclay is still nowhere near his 2009 form and has been played out of position all season. Simon Taylor is about the only Scottish number-eight left around who has been getting game time week in, week out and he can't be bothered with Scotland any more.

At least we have Visser coming in and I would be tempted to have him and Brown on the wings rather than Lamont. Alex Dunbar should go on the tour but it'll probably be a while yet before Andy Robinson considers him.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 10 May 2012, 4:14 pm

justified sinner wrote:Can't we just parachute Maitland in instead of Jones? Close to home after all.

Feicing top idea

by **RDW** Thu 10 May 2012, 4:14 pm

Visser to number 8? Whistle

by justified sinner Thu 10 May 2012, 4:30 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
justified sinner wrote:Can't we just parachute Maitland in instead of Jones? Close to home after all.
Feicing top idea

Maybe Mossy's off to the Crusaders for a reason.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Thu 10 May 2012, 4:55 pm

Barclay had a very good game at 8 on Saturday for the Warriors chaps !

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 10 May 2012, 4:56 pm

Tis true, c21st, but I can't seem him as an international ball-carrying 8 that makes some hard yards, sorry - unbalances the backrow completely for me

by **RDW** Thu 10 May 2012, 4:56 pm

Could he do the same against monstrous pacific islanders though??

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Thu 10 May 2012, 5:04 pm

He's not exactly a midget guys - maybe not big for an 8 but a big lad anyway !

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 10 May 2012, 5:08 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:He's not exactly a midget guys - maybe not big for an 8 but a big lad anyway !

Not questioning his size - think he's about 6'2" and nigh on 16 stone - it's his natural game which is the issue. He's a great 7, but not a six nor an 8, and making him try to play in that way doesn't work for me

by justified sinner Thu 10 May 2012, 5:09 pm

The problem I see with a Harley Rennie Barclay back row is lack of ball carrying. Would be awesome at the breakdown though.

by **RDW** Thu 10 May 2012, 5:12 pm

That's a good point sinner - Harely is a great tackler but we all know he's fairly anonymous with the ball in hand!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 10 May 2012, 5:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:That's a good point sinner - Harely is a great tackler but we all know he's fairly anonymous with the ball in hand!

He's been getting better recently with Barclay at 8 - probably cos he's had to, mind!

by Majestic83 Thu 10 May 2012, 5:36 pm

With Denton and Ryan Wilson both injured now and probably the two who would have gone as 8s I would now definitely be taking Blair Cowan as one of the 2 8s on tour. Stuart McInally is injured at the moment, not sure what the injury is but it is why he hasn't been involved with Edinburgh the past fortnight.
Could Ally Hogg been inline for a call up as he has been in good form. The other options i'd imagine will be Vernon and Beattie but Beattie needs a good pre season at his new club so i'd prefer not to see him on tour.

As to replacing Jones on the wing my pick would be Tom Brown who i have been really impressed with recently, exciting in attack and extremely aggressive in defence.

by Cryptoyourisan Thu 10 May 2012, 6:23 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:He's not exactly a midget guys - maybe not big for an 8 but a big lad anyway !
Not questioning his size - think he's about 6'2" and nigh on 16 stone - it's his natural game which is the issue. He's a great 7, but not a six nor an 8, and making him try to play in that way doesn't work for me

I agree. He just doesn't have the pace and impact off the base of the scrum of a Heaslip, Picamoles, Read or even Beattie. He's not slow by any means but he's been an openside at Glasgow since he was about 17-years-old. Whilst I don't think we should be encouraging big names to play in England or France, I really think Barclay could have got his mojo back if he had moved to the likes of Bath, Gloucester or Castres. I can still see him moving on after he's fulfilled this extended one-year contract. I think Ally Hogg is actually quite similar to Barclay. Although he's a number-eight by trade, I he played his best stuff at openside when we had the White-Hogg-Taylor back-row.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 10 May 2012, 7:29 pm

Dreadful news about Denton (Jones I had expected).

The other options are Vernon, McInally or Beattie (I'm assuming Wilson is also out but if not, he'd be a front runner based on his form prior to injury). For different reasons I'm not wild on any of these guys at the moment and none can claim form, but the guy with the most ability is Beattie (and most similar to Denton), so hopefully Robinson can convince a currently well rested Beattie to get ready for a tough summer on Scotland duty. He doesn't really need a rest, that's for sure.

I beg AR not to play Barclay at 8. It is a silly idea, and one half decent performance against Connacht does not an international number 8 make.

With Jones out the first choice wingers should be Visser and Evans. I'd have Brown on the bench.

by **RDW** Fri 11 May 2012, 8:12 am

Been announced in the hootsman this morning that the 'tahs game has been cancelled so Robinson is considering cutting his squad to 32, which probably means 2 per position and another hooked and scrum half. Also suggests chunk will be rested!

Also, with our current number 8 problems surely Hogg should get a call up. If he doesn't then it really does show that there must be bad blood between him and Robinson.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 11 May 2012, 8:27 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Been announced in the hootsman this morning that the 'tahs game has been cancelled so Robinson is considering cutting his squad to 32, which probably means 2 per position and another hooked and scrum half. Also suggests chunk will be rested!

Also, with our current number 8 problems surely Hogg should get a call up. If he doesn't then it really does show that there must be bad blood between him and Robinson.

Why would Hogg get a call up, RDW? He's been playing ok-ish in a pretty weak team? I'd much rather see McInally if recovered from injury, Blair Cowan or even Barclay

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