Scots Reunite! The Summer Tour Thread.

[KickAndChase]

First topic message reminder :

Despite the anger it invites from many Scottish posters (more as a place to vent than the cause) I miss the standard Scotland thread. With Edinburgh's success in the Heineken Cup and what looks like Glasgow's in the RABO we have two semi finals under our belt in club rugby. Can the players finally overcome the friction with their coaching team and display this on the pitch? Who would be your picks for the summer tour squad and match day 22s? Do you think we will win a match this year?

No news on squad size yet (I believe) but we can speculate. I do think we will beat one of Fiji & Samoa and also the Waratahs, but that's it. Anyone able to instill that misguided Scottish faith back into me???

[GLove39]

Slightly off topic, but is there any chance we could cancel Matt Taylor's upcoming contract with Scotland?

Given that the majority of games shown on ALBA have been Glasgow games I've seen them play so much more often than normal. Their defensive performance tonight against a classy Leinster side bristling with talent summed up their season and showed why they have the best defensive record in the league.

With Gary Mercer's time at Glasgow now over, given what a fantastic job he's done with their defence, why didn't Robinson / the SRU think to reward this with the national post?

[funnyExiledScot]

I agree, it's completely disgraceful that the best thing happening in Scottish rugby this season, Glasgow's defence and consistency, was overseen by one of the few men in Scottish rugby out of a job next season.

The SRU have totally bungled the appointments next season, and every time I see Glasgow play, it makes me want to weep. I know it's a broken record of a topic, but it gets renewed every time you see how good Glasgow have become. Compare that defensive performance when Dunbar got sin binned to the wafer think tackling we saw from Scotland in the 6 Nations. Mercer really should be Scotland's defence coach next season, regardless of how highly Taylor may be thought of.

[flyhalffactory]

I would agree that most of the time 21st shoots from the hip in not the most eloquent of ways, but when we are faced with Robinson's complete inability to make the best of what we have in the two pro teams then i for one can sympathise with where he's coming from.

Until AR shows some ability to select an appropriate squad and provide an effective game plan you wont find me forgetting about the last 12 months of mistakes compunded by bigger mistakes by Robinson and his coaching staff.

By the by, one fact that the SRU have kept on the QT and very hush, hush: Gregor Townsend has been sent down under to NZ to "learn some tips" from some of the coaches of the S15 Kiwi franchises. Shows the SRU are clearly confident that Toonie has the requisite experience to flourish at Glasgow then?

How's that for a new stone to toss at the SRU mangement?

Let me be quite clear what you are saying

SRU sends a young scottish coach to gain additional experience working alongside (in the closed season) some of the most experienced coaches, observing some of the best players in one of the toughest leagues in the world. Now I think it was one of the worst decions by the SRU to give Gregor the Glasgow job, but applause by them to provide him with this opportunity which will only bode well for Glasgow and thus hopefully the international team

In your eyes this is a bad decision?

Its usually called continuous professional development (CPD) in all other industries

[sensisball]

The decision to send Townsend now, two months before he is due to take on the plum job in Scottish pro rugby strikes me as a desperate rather than an appropriate move.

After 3 years of showing no discernable improvement as Scotland's attack coach are the SRU really hoping that he can assimilate all the stuff he sees in a 3 or 4 week visit and it will improve him as a coach? If so, why didnt he get this opportunity when he was working with Scotland?

To me it smacks of desperation. At least they are aware the pressure that the media will apply to Toonie if his team cannot match the success achieved this season under Lineen.

[123456789]

I think it's a stupid decision but I really hope Townsend does really well partly because it will help scottish rugby but also because it will teach people not to write someone off before they've had a chance. What would you say if he won the Rabo and the Heineken before taking Scotland on a run of unparraleled success?

[Tattie Scones RRN]

I think it's a stupid decision but I really hope Townsend does really well partly because it will help scottish rugby but also because it will teach people not to write someone off before they've had a chance. What would you say if he won the Rabo and the Heineken before taking Scotland on a run of unparraleled success?

usually in a coaches infancy, you can tell there's something special about them.

In Townsends case, it's more like special needs.

Not only has he proved that he cannot coach at the highest level - albeit assistant coach (which he was awful at), it has also shown that the SRU will ignore any other long term coaches at club level and that they will be extremely lucky to progress within Scottish rugby.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Robinson is a goon, on that we are all agreed. 21st probably moreso than others. He seems to have problems with selection and has made some huge mistakes when picking the team.

None of that can be changed sadly and we now have the awful spectre of a tour to Oz and the pacific Islands with a depleted side. Hopefully this will mean he'll leave the likes of Morrison and Lamont at home and try and establish a new centre partnership involving Dunbar, who I thought was terrific at the weekend with either Scott at 12 inside him or DeLuca at 13 outside him. Either way I would be pretty happy.

Harley is a must too IMO. His Tackling was immense and it could help us shore up Scotland's wussy defence. My only concern with Harley is he is pretty much AWOL when Glasgow have the ball, we would need him to help Denton, Ford and Gray with the carrying duties to trully make the 6 shirt his own.

He'll get the call for the summer I hope but if he can't improve his carrying game he'll only be keeping the Jersey warm for Kelly Brown.

Thoughts on the captaincy? Laidlaw? Blair? Kellock if he travels?

[sensisball]

Rugger you are right that Harley needs to work on carrying the ball more often. You are also right that his defence is immense, he was a major reason that Warriors stayed in the game when Dunbar was in the bin at the RDS.
Given Brown's continued absence and Strokosch playing for a team in melt down you would hope that he is in the squad, but given AR's track record on ignoring him I wouldnt' hold my breath.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Rugger you are right that Harley needs to work on carrying the ball more often. You are also right that his defence is immense, he was a major reason that Warriors stayed in the game when Dunbar was in the bin at the RDS.
Given Brown's continued absence and Strokosch playing for a team in melt down you would hope that he is in the squad, but given AR's track record on ignoring him I wouldnt' hold my breath.

Stroks isn't a renowned carrier either, so whoever plays 8 will need to put in a shift with ball in hand, while Harley chops down anything that moves.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Thoughts on the captaincy? Laidlaw? Blair? Kellock if he travels?

Think it has to be Laidlaw (preferably at 9, altho I know that many would like to see him at 10)

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I agree, it's completely disgraceful that the best thing happening in Scottish rugby this season, Glasgow's defence and consistency, was overseen by one of the few men in Scottish rugby out of a job next season.

The SRU have totally bungled the appointments next season, and every time I see Glasgow play, it makes me want to weep. I know it's a broken record of a topic, but it gets renewed every time you see how good Glasgow have become. Compare that defensive performance when Dunbar got sin binned to the wafer think tackling we saw from Scotland in the 6 Nations. Mercer really should be Scotland's defence coach next season, regardless of how highly Taylor may be thought of.

+1

[nickj]

For once the Hootsman calls the squad right in my opinion: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/laidlaw-and-weir-are-way-out-of-slump-for-scotland-1-2291995

BTW I use 606 to chat to and listen to the views of rugby fans. I don't agree with everyone and I'm sure not everyone agrees with me. That's life. However, as in life, repetition does get a bit boring.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

For once the Hootsman calls the squad right in my opinion: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/laidlaw-and-weir-are-way-out-of-slump-for-scotland-1-2291995

BTW I use 606 to chat to and listen to the views of rugby fans. I don't agree with everyone and I'm sure not everyone agrees with me. That's life. However, as in life, repetition does get a bit boring.

Not sure I understand, nick?

Agree with all of what the article says, apart from the bit about bringing Southwell back?!?!

[nickj]

Just wanted to add my two pennies worth to the earlier exchange on repetition mate

Agreed on Southwell though. We're short but Brown must go.

[Imperialbigdave]

The main concern about the backrow is that with Denton out, Barclay will probably play 8 and if Harley plays 6, then theres no ball carriers. Edinburgh under Moffat showed that doesnt work, you cant get front foot ball without tiring your tight five out by half time.

It make Wilson or Rambos case stronger, but neither of them have played for a few weeks and im not sure if theyve recovered.

[RuggerRadge2611]

on the downside Hugo Southwell was mentioned in that article

ASBO beat me to it

[RDW]

The article lost all credibility when that was mentioned.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Good news (sort of!) - Sean Maitland didn't make the ABs 35-man squad for the summer internationals

[RDW]

Would it be too much to ask for AR to ask him to be in our squad?

Imagine a back 3 of

11 Visser
14 Maitland
15 Hogg

Amazing.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Would it be too much to ask for AR to ask him to be in our squad?

Imagine a back 3 of

11 Visser
14 Maitland
15 Hogg

Amazing.

Can you imagine, those 3 would score tries for fun!

[Imperialbigdave]

only if they got the ball in space mind. A bit of a shake up in the midfield required for that to happen

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

only if they got the ball in space mind. A bit of a shake up in the midfield required for that to happen

I was assuming that was coming anyway, IBD - but you're right, I shouldn't count those chickens yet!

[RDW]

To be fair, the midfield is something we are stuck with, but I'd much rather Maitland with a not great midfield than Lee Jones or Maxy! Decent players they are too of course....but what I've seen of Maitland he's really got the X factor.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

To be fair, the midfield is something we are stuck with, but I'd much rather Maitland with a not great midfield than Lee Jones or Maxy! Decent players they are too of course....but what I've seen of Maitland he's really got the X factor.

Agreed, RDW, and he certainly knows his way to the try line and across it

[Captain_Sensible]

There is a good midfield waiting to be picked, if AR wants to. Scott and Dunbar have really brought some options for the 12/13 axis.

[funnyExiledScot]

There mere notion of Southwell going is beyond stupid. Stuart Hogg goes as first choice, Tom Brown as back-up. It's the easiest position to select by some distance in my opinion.

Although I understand the point about Gilchrist needing a rest, I'm not sure why that doesn't equally apply to those players involved in the World Cup. He should go. If we need a lock to sit out the summer, it should be Kellock, despite his efforts on Saturday.

The article isn't bad, but I don't like the floating of Hogg as a centre (we have heaps of good options at 13) or any reference to Southwell at all.

Don't get me wrong, Southwell has had a strong season at Wasps, but he no longer has any place in international rugby. This is not a tour to ignore good young players like Tom Brown. He played well in an HC semi-final. He deserves to go.

[nickj]

I don't think Southwell should tour but (as ever) I do think we need to balance retaining some experience with giving youth a go.

Especially in the pack. Thats why Kellock really needs to travel IMO. Having said that, while I wasnt that impressed by Glasgow's front row against Leinster, I can see why Jacobsen and Murray may be left behind.

No, Southwell shouldnt get in over Brown, but neither should Southwell be completely disgarded. He has his uses, albiet v limited ones.

Here's my squad with the experienced players marked in bold. Ford remains captain IMO too.

Welsh/Grant
Ford/MacArthur
Cross /Low
Gray
Kellock/Ryder
Harley/Strokosch
Rennie/Barclay
Beattie /Vernon

Blair/Cusiter
Weir/Laidlaw
Visser/S Lamont
Scott/Dunbar
Ansbro/De Luca
M Evans/
Hogg/Brown

[Scot Abroad]

Have Johnson or Taylor started yet? With Toonie now assigned to Glagow, could we be seeing Robbo picking the squad with no input from anyone else? That seems to be a disaster waiting to happen. Hopefully Patterson’s visit to the Crusaders has seen him whisper a few sweet nothings into Maitland’s ear and he rejected the call up to the ABs squad to concentrate on Scotland. The back 3 of Visser, Maitland and Hogg would be electrifying to say the least. Robinson was also excluded from the ABs squad so he could come in as backup if we want to move Hogg to 13. I can only dream!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Have Johnson or Taylor started yet? With Toonie now assigned to Glagow, could we be seeing Robbo picking the squad with no input from anyone else? That seems to be a disaster waiting to happen. Hopefully Patterson’s visit to the Crusaders has seen him whisper a few sweet nothings into Maitland’s ear and he rejected the call up to the ABs squad to concentrate on Scotland. The back 3 of Visser, Maitland and Hogg would be electrifying to say the least. Robinson was also excluded from the ABs squad so he could come in as backup if we want to move Hogg to 13. I can only dream!

With you all the way

[Captain_Sensible]

I think both Johnson and Taylor will be joining the touring party, but they’ll probably have a limited say over selection.

I’m a little more chilled out about the make-up of the squad than I was a few weeks ago. All the young players that I really want to see on the tour have had a strong finish to the season, and our general lack of depth really limits what Robinson can do anyway. Am I crazy to feel such optimism?

[RDW]

I'd agree - most positions pick themselves due to injury. I still think he's going to throw something random in there though....

The Scotsman says that Robinson and Johnson were at the Rabbo Semi final together.

[Captain_Sensible]

=I still think he's going to throw something random in there though....

Like....?

[RDW]

Morrison over Dunbar, bring back Marcus Di Rollo - something like that!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Morrison over Dunbar, bring back Marcus Di Rollo - something like that!

Or play Morrison at 13! That's got to be one of Lineen's more bizarre picks for the season!

[Captain_Sensible]

Morrison over Dunbar, bring back Marcus Di Rollo - something like that!

Sounds depressingly likely, at least the Morrison over Dunbar part.

The more I think about it, the more I think that getting the right 12/13 partnership is absolutely vital for Scotland. We’ve got a good pack, a good set piece, oodles of quality at scrum half and finally some decent options at fly half. We’ve also got some emerging class in the back three. Our midfield constipation has held us back for years. It was fine when the rest of the team was relatively poor and all we needed our 12 and 13 to do was tackle like maniacs and run the crash ball, but we’ve finally got players that can damage the opposition – guys like Ansbro, Jones, Visser, Hogg, Denton etc.

The acid test for Robbo in this tour is finding a centre partnership that can help unleash these players and cause havoc in the oppo defence. Whether it is some combination of Scott/Dunbar/NDL/Ansbro/Hogg doesn’t really bother me. As long as they can get the team scoring tries, I’ll be happy. We all know that Morrison, fantastic defender that he is, has had his time. To move this team forward, AR must let him go.

[Scot Abroad]

Most positions will pick themselves. I’d say the halfbacks are pretty much set with Blair/Cusiter and Laidlaw/Weir being first and second choices. In the backs the problem is around the centre and back 3. Both Dunbar and Scott have shown they have what it takes to perform in high pressure matches and deliver the goods. They should travel. However, Robbo still has a thing for Morrison so I could see one of them, probably Dunbar, being excluded and the donkey included. How does Robbo not see he has hands like feet! Dunbar is also an option for outside centre but with Ansbro back fit and De Luca again performing for Edinburgh I can see them going at his expense. However, Ansbro can cover wing as well so would that open a position for Dunbar, or maybe Grove?

I expect Lamont and Evans to travel to add experience to the back 3. Hogg is guaranteed and Robbo should be sacked on the spot if he doesn’t take Visser. The talk in the Hootsman about Shug coming back into the team is unforgiveable. So he was voted players player at Wasps this year. So what, that’s not saying much. The whole team was terrible this year. He has a big boot they say, well last time I saw him kick he sliced it straight out of play, then went off injured and hasn’t been seen since. Have they ever seen Hogg kick a ball because he has a bit of length as well. Brown must travel as the second FB. Southwell should be nowhere near the squad. My backs for the tour

9 Blair/Cusiter
10 Laidlaw/Weir
11 Viser/SLamont
12 Scott/Dunbar
13 Ansbro/De Luca/Grove(maybe)
14 Evans (Ansbro covering)
15 Hogg/Brown

[Imperialbigdave]

ah yes, the mythical left boot of southwell that everyone hears so much about, yet rarely ever sees.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Anyone want to take a bet that young Shingler will be included?

It also noted the recommendation of the IRB Rugby and Regulations Committees, subsequent to this hearing, that the designation of the Under 20 side as the next senior national representative team should no longer be sustained. This issue will be considered by the IRB Council at its Special Meeting on May 15, 2012.

The Panel further recognised that the IRB Council will have made its determination on the recommendations of both Committees regarding the next senior national representative team review prior to its consideration of the Regulations Committee decision in the Shingler case.

Council, in accordance with IRB Regulation 2, is able to endorse or overturn the decision of the Regulations Committee. It should also be noted that unless specifically stated by Council, changes to Laws and Regulations do not have retrospective application.

[Scot Abroad]

Anyone want to take a bet that young Shingler will be included?

It also noted the recommendation of the IRB Rugby and Regulations Committees, subsequent to this hearing, that the designation of the Under 20 side as the next senior national representative team should no longer be sustained. This issue will be considered by the IRB Council at its Special Meeting on May 15, 2012.

The Panel further recognised that the IRB Council will have made its determination on the recommendations of both Committees regarding the next senior national representative team review prior to its consideration of the Regulations Committee decision in the Shingler case.

Council, in accordance with IRB Regulation 2, is able to endorse or overturn the decision of the Regulations Committee. It should also be noted that unless specifically stated by Council, changes to Laws and Regulations do not have retrospective application.

Dunbar and Scott to miss out for Morrison and Shingler. He'd bloody well do something like that to p**s us all off!

[nickj]

Crikey, I thought the Shingler thing was dead in the water. I wouldnt be surprised if he was included if the IRB overruled the Regulations Committee.

That said I would be mightily annoyed if he was picked ahead of Scott. I can see Dunbar missing out on a place too, but it would be really gutting to see that happen because of Shingler.

[flyhalffactory]

Morrison over Dunbar, bring back Marcus Di Rollo - something like that!

Or play Morrison at 13! That's got to be one of Lineen's more bizarre picks for the season!

But did it work?

[funnyExiledScot]

If either Scott or Dunbar do not tour, and Morrison does, I will adopt a Schizoid-esque approach to 606 and post nothing without commencing with an anti-Robinson tirade.

Morrison defended stoutly on Saturday and tackled his heart out, as he always does. Very much what was needed for Glasgow against arguably the best club side in Europe. The requirements for Scotland from its centres are completely different, particularly for this tour. Scotland needs urgently to find a balanced midfield combination with the ability to break open defences at international level. Morrison may be able to fulfill a one-off hatchet job role, but he is not going to be part of a midfield combination going forward that suits the way Scotland needs to play to maximise its potential.

As Visser can't play against Australia, we should just put Ansbro on the wing as a stop-gap, and use Visser thereafter, with Evans on the other wing. No need to take Lamont on the tour in my view. Ansbro, Visser and Evans (and Brown) cover the wings, and Ansbro, Dunbar and Scott cover 12. NDL, Anbro and Dunbar cover 13. Hogg and Brown to cover 15. Done.

Wednesday is judgement day for Robinson. Has he learned anything from the last dismal 12 months, or are we to see another bunch of silly selections.

The following, in my view, are silly selections:

- Jacobsen
- Murray
- Kalman
- Dickinson
- Hall
- Kellock (perhaps less silly than the others)
- Barclay being considered as a number 8
- Ali Hogg
- Rory Lawson
- Morrison
- S Lamont
- R Lamont (if he's alive)
- Walker (ditto)
- Murchie
- Southwell

Any of the above and Scotland are well and truly in reverse gear.

[Scot Abroad]

FES, you forgot Cuthbert on the silly selections list, another one of Robbo's inspired picks!

[justified sinner]

OK Fes, from what I know Chunk, Murray, Ramont, Murchie, Dickinson, will not tour. Others up to AR.

[highland_scot]

- Jacobsen
- Murray
- Kalman
- Dickinson
- Hall
- Kellock (perhaps less silly than the others)
- Barclay being considered as a number 8
- Ali Hogg
- Rory Lawson
- Morrison
- S Lamont
- R Lamont (if he's alive)
- Walker (ditto)
- Murchie
- Southwell

Any of the above and Scotland are well and truly in reverse gear.

I think we will see at least 3 of those:
Kellock
Barclay at 8
Slamont

Highly possible (but I hope not): Morrison
And slightly less likely but still in with a reasonable chance: Kalman (AR seems to like him)

Who knows, given Morrison's recent "successes" at 13, and AR's selection prowess, we could see Lamont at 12 and Morrison at 13
Then we may as well have the best back 3 in the world,we'll still not score any tries!

[sensisball]

Now, now boys lets just try to stay calm, at least until the squad is announced.

I too had forgotten about Cuthbert. I am hoping that now Gold has now been given the director of rugby job at Bath hopefully AR will ditch the Bath sloth from any further Scotland squads, but you never know!!!!!
Also if Southwell is selected i may have to sink my life savings into hiring a competent but competitively priced hitman!
No, no i will stay calm and keep my fingers and toes crossed for Wednesday!

[123456789]

I hope the 28 man squad is:

Backs: Hogg, Brown, Evans, Visser, Ansbro, Dunbar, Scott, De Luca, Weir, Laidlaw, Blair, Pyrgos/Cusiter
Forwards: MacInally, Barclay, Fusaro, Rennie, Harley, Wilson, Gray, Gilchrist, Ryder, Kellock, Low, Cross, Ford, MacArthur, Welsh, Grant
12 from the world cup squad and if Maitland is available he will be picked

My starting 15
15. Hogg
14. Visser
13. Dunbar
12. Scott
11. Brown
10. Weir
9. Blair
8. MacInally
7. Rennie
6. Harley
5. Gray
4. Gilchrist
3. Low
2. Ford
1. Welsh

8 Glasgow and 7 Edinburgh, 5 from the world cup squad. Gray would be my captain to try to toughen him up and he could be one for the future.

[RDW]

Interview with ally Hogg in the metro today - says he's never ruled himself out of Scotland selection and is very keen for a call up!

[RuggerRadge2611]

Of all the players I want to see play for Scotland Harley is my biggest concern. Without Denton at 8 to do the bulk of the ugly carrying I can't see where our impetus in the forwards will come from in the Absence of Hamilton and Denton.

Ford and Gray would be our only trully recognisable bruising ball carriers. Rennie is an elusive link man as opposed to the blunt instrument our pack needs.

Harley has very little to offer when Scotland are in possesion and considering how well we butcher try scoring chances we need to keep the pressure on up front. Harley is not a player to offer that although defensively he is superb.

I wonder where the bulk of our Forward carriers will come from on this tour.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Of all the players I want to see play for Scotland Harley is my biggest concern. Without Denton at 8 to do the bulk of the ugly carrying I can't see where our impetus in the forwards will come from in the Absence of Hamilton and Denton.

Ford and Gray would be our only trully recognisable bruising ball carriers. Rennie is an elusive link man as opposed to the blunt instrument our pack needs.

Harley has very little to offer when Scotland are in possesion and considering how well we butcher try scoring chances we need to keep the pressure on up front. Harley is not a player to offer that although defensively he is superb.

I wonder where the bulk of our Forward carriers will come from on this tour.

To meet your concern, Radge, then you'd have to go for McInally/Wilson/Beattie/Hogg at 8? But we all know it will be Barclay, so probably Stroks at 6?

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