Scots Reunite! The Summer Tour Thread.

[KickAndChase]

First topic message reminder :

Despite the anger it invites from many Scottish posters (more as a place to vent than the cause) I miss the standard Scotland thread. With Edinburgh's success in the Heineken Cup and what looks like Glasgow's in the RABO we have two semi finals under our belt in club rugby. Can the players finally overcome the friction with their coaching team and display this on the pitch? Who would be your picks for the summer tour squad and match day 22s? Do you think we will win a match this year?

No news on squad size yet (I believe) but we can speculate. I do think we will beat one of Fiji & Samoa and also the Waratahs, but that's it. Anyone able to instill that misguided Scottish faith back into me???

[Captain_Sensible]

His distribution can improve, and is already very, very good.

Where does this concensus come from? Weirs distribution is slow, laboured and for 90% of the game serves only to move the ball wide but not forward. Watch him take the ball, hes already slowing down by the time it comes to him, takes 2-3 steps, slows, turns and ships it along the line. Granted he actually attacks the line once-twice in a game, so he can do it, but at the moment he shows little more invention or ability to bring other players in than Parks.

I really dont care how good his kicking is, weve had almost ten years of a fly-half who was a good kicker, and he dragged scottish rugby into the dirt.

Weir is 20 years old. Repeat that to yourself until it properly sinks in. It would be criminal, utterly criminal, if we ignored a player as talented as Weir just because, at his young age, he isn’t the perfect flyhalf. The basic requirements for a flyhalf are already there – awesome kicking from hand and tee, strong defence and a good range of passing.

Weir has always played better when paired with a creative centre, just as Laidlaw does. Look at the 6N – Laidlaw looked pretty average with Morrison next to him, but he looks like a genius with Scott beside him at Edinburgh. Same for Weir. With Morrison at 12 for Glasgow, Weir has to constantly check his play and think about how to get round the creative black hole in the shirt next to him. Against the Saxons with Scott at his side, he could ship it to Scott without thinking knowing that his 12 would do something decent with it. Please watch the highlights of that game – Weir played an absolute blinder, he really did. Plus, Glasgow aren’t a team that generate lightning quick ball anyway, so by the time Weir gets it the oppo defence are often already on him.

I still don’t understand why you’re willing to excuse NDL’s averageness in a Scotland shirt because he has Morrison beside him, but are not willing to do the same for Weir when he also has Morrison beside him at Glasgow. Weir is a far more rounded player that Parks ever was, and will only get better. For my money he’s Scotland’s best all-rounder flyhalf, and should be given a run in the Scotland team alongside a creative and astute scrum half and 12, like Laidlaw and Scott.

[RDW]

That's the other question - if we have a Laidlaw/Weir combo then who will be the place kicker??

I thought Laidlaw lacked a bit of distance, but his kicking in the Semi final definitely proved that wrong!

[nickj]

Laidlaw's my choice. He doesnt seem to do nervous.

[Captain_Sensible]

That's the other question - if we have a Laidlaw/Weir combo then who will be the place kicker??

I thought Laidlaw lacked a bit of distance, but his kicking in the Semi final definitely proved that wrong!

It would be Weir, I reckon. He and Laidlaw both have roughly same kicking accuracy in the Rabo this season (90% +), but Weir has a much bigger range. He can plop them over from five yards inside his own half

[RDW]

5 yards inside his own half at Firhill is probably about the same as 5 yards in the opposition half at the Aviva!

[Captain_Sensible]

5 yards inside his own half at Firhill is probably about the same as 5 yards in the opposition half at the Aviva!

Ha, good point RDW. But, I’ve seen Weir do it at other grounds. He doesn’t seem to do nervous either.

[RuggerRadge2611]

I still don’t understand why you’re willing to excuse NDL’s averageness in a Scotland shirt because he has Morrison beside him, but are not willing to do the same for Weir when he also has Morrison beside him at Glasgow. Weir is a far more rounded player that Parks ever was, and will only get better. For my money he’s Scotland’s best all-rounder flyhalf, and should be given a run in the Scotland team alongside a creative and astute scrum half and 12, like Laidlaw and Scott.

I'm more than willing to do it for Weir, 100%. I just think it is incredibly harsh on Laidlaw to drop him. In truth I think he will eventually become the Scrum Half for the national team but he hasn't done much wrong at 10 and I don't feel Weir has done enough at club level to justify replacing him.

I hear what you are saying about Morrison and have no doubt that Weir doesn't get the best advert for his skills at 10 with Morrison outside him.

I'm all for Weir at 10 but just feel Laidlaw could be pretty agrieved to lose his jersey without doing anything wrong.

If Laidlaw moves to 9 thats harsh on Blair who is playing really well and seems to be getting ever closer to his "IRB Player of the year candidate" best.

[RDW]

Whoever does kick I think we'll be alright. And if one is doing crap the other can take over!

I just love Laidlaw's attitude and temperament - he takes everything in his stride and isn't afraid to grab the team by the scruff of the neck and get them back on track.

[Captain_Sensible]

I still don’t understand why you’re willing to excuse NDL’s averageness in a Scotland shirt because he has Morrison beside him, but are not willing to do the same for Weir when he also has Morrison beside him at Glasgow. Weir is a far more rounded player that Parks ever was, and will only get better. For my money he’s Scotland’s best all-rounder flyhalf, and should be given a run in the Scotland team alongside a creative and astute scrum half and 12, like Laidlaw and Scott.

I'm more than willing to do it for Weir, 100%. I just think it is incredibly harsh on Laidlaw to drop him. In truth I think he will eventually become the Scrum Half for the national team but he hasn't done much wrong at 10 and I don't feel Weir has done enough at club level to justify replacing him.

I hear what you are saying about Morrison and have no doubt that Weir doesn't get the best advert for his skills at 10 with Morrison outside him.

I'm all for Weir at 10 but just feel Laidlaw could be pretty agrieved to lose his jersey without doing anything wrong.

If Laidlaw moves to 9 thats harsh on Blair who is playing really well and seems to be getting ever closer to his "IRB Player of the year candidate" best.

Again, Radge, I think you’re thinking about it the wrong way. I wouldn’t drop Laidlaw, I’m move him back to his old position at scrum half, a position which he is on record as saying he prefers. I’d also make him national captain to sweeten the deal  As RDW says, Laidlaw has a great temperament, always manages a game well and can grab his team by the balls and force them forward. Obvious captain material.

You’re right, it would be harsh on Blair, but we can’t be sentimental. That is where a lot of coaches fall down. Anyway, what a bench option Blair would be on current form!

[RuggerRadge2611]

Laidlaw is also adept at stripping the ball off gargantuan South African backrowers.

Pedrie Wannenberg hang your head in shame!

[RDW]

If you watch the highlights he did it twice - on the halfway line as well!

[Imperialbigdave]

His distribution can improve, and is already very, very good.

Where does this concensus come from? Weirs distribution is slow, laboured and for 90% of the game serves only to move the ball wide but not forward. Watch him take the ball, hes already slowing down by the time it comes to him, takes 2-3 steps, slows, turns and ships it along the line. Granted he actually attacks the line once-twice in a game, so he can do it, but at the moment he shows little more invention or ability to bring other players in than Parks.

I really dont care how good his kicking is, weve had almost ten years of a fly-half who was a good kicker, and he dragged scottish rugby into the dirt.

Weir is 20 years old. Repeat that to yourself until it properly sinks in. It would be criminal, utterly criminal, if we ignored a player as talented as Weir just because, at his young age, he isn’t the perfect flyhalf. The basic requirements for a flyhalf are already there – awesome kicking from hand and tee, strong defence and a good range of passing.

Weir has always played better when paired with a creative centre, just as Laidlaw does. Look at the 6N – Laidlaw looked pretty average with Morrison next to him, but he looks like a genius with Scott beside him at Edinburgh. Same for Weir. With Morrison at 12 for Glasgow, Weir has to constantly check his play and think about how to get round the creative black hole in the shirt next to him. Against the Saxons with Scott at his side, he could ship it to Scott without thinking knowing that his 12 would do something decent with it. Please watch the highlights of that game – Weir played an absolute blinder, he really did. Plus, Glasgow aren’t a team that generate lightning quick ball anyway, so by the time Weir gets it the oppo defence are often already on him.

I still don’t understand why you’re willing to excuse NDL’s averageness in a Scotland shirt because he has Morrison beside him, but are not willing to do the same for Weir when he also has Morrison beside him at Glasgow. Weir is a far more rounded player that Parks ever was, and will only get better. For my money he’s Scotland’s best all-rounder flyhalf, and should be given a run in the Scotland team alongside a creative and astute scrum half and 12, like Laidlaw and Scott.

I know Weirs twenty years old. I know he can improve. I didnt say anywhere that he couldnt. But I refuse to jump on the bandwagon at the moment "just because hes not Jackson". He needs to display more of a game at glasgow before he should be taking the 10 shirt for Scotland.

I also believe he is far to eager to put boot to ball at times when there is space outside. The Morrison argument has some credibility, but its not entirely to blame. Look at Laidlaw against London Irish. Had John Houston outside him but still managed to manipulate his backline to open the Irish defence up. Plenty of Fly halfs have to deal with poor 12s. Johnny Sexton still manages to get his backline moving even with Darcy outside him, Berrick Barnes has Tom Carter partnered with him, a player so bad commentators dont hide their dislike for him. Just a few examples to illustrate that Morrison isnt entirely the reason for Weirs poor distribution. Dont get me wrong, having a decent 12 outside helps, but if hes as good as you say he is, he should be able to work around Morrison.

Read back at my previous posts on this thread, Im not in the justice for NDL crew. He needs a kick up the arse.

And your post seems to assume that I havent actually seen Weir that much and that I dont know what im talking about. Ive watched just about every minute of Weir thats been televised over the past two seasons. That is where ive drawn my opinion from.

[Captain_Sensible]

His distribution can improve, and is already very, very good.

Where does this concensus come from? Weirs distribution is slow, laboured and for 90% of the game serves only to move the ball wide but not forward. Watch him take the ball, hes already slowing down by the time it comes to him, takes 2-3 steps, slows, turns and ships it along the line. Granted he actually attacks the line once-twice in a game, so he can do it, but at the moment he shows little more invention or ability to bring other players in than Parks.

I really dont care how good his kicking is, weve had almost ten years of a fly-half who was a good kicker, and he dragged scottish rugby into the dirt.

Weir is 20 years old. Repeat that to yourself until it properly sinks in. It would be criminal, utterly criminal, if we ignored a player as talented as Weir just because, at his young age, he isn’t the perfect flyhalf. The basic requirements for a flyhalf are already there – awesome kicking from hand and tee, strong defence and a good range of passing.

Weir has always played better when paired with a creative centre, just as Laidlaw does. Look at the 6N – Laidlaw looked pretty average with Morrison next to him, but he looks like a genius with Scott beside him at Edinburgh. Same for Weir. With Morrison at 12 for Glasgow, Weir has to constantly check his play and think about how to get round the creative black hole in the shirt next to him. Against the Saxons with Scott at his side, he could ship it to Scott without thinking knowing that his 12 would do something decent with it. Please watch the highlights of that game – Weir played an absolute blinder, he really did. Plus, Glasgow aren’t a team that generate lightning quick ball anyway, so by the time Weir gets it the oppo defence are often already on him.

I still don’t understand why you’re willing to excuse NDL’s averageness in a Scotland shirt because he has Morrison beside him, but are not willing to do the same for Weir when he also has Morrison beside him at Glasgow. Weir is a far more rounded player that Parks ever was, and will only get better. For my money he’s Scotland’s best all-rounder flyhalf, and should be given a run in the Scotland team alongside a creative and astute scrum half and 12, like Laidlaw and Scott.

I know Weirs twenty years old. I know he can improve. I didnt say anywhere that he couldnt. But I refuse to jump on the bandwagon at the moment "just because hes not Jackson". He needs to display more of a game at glasgow before he should be taking the 10 shirt for Scotland.

I also believe he is far to eager to put boot to ball at times when there is space outside. The Morrison argument has some credibility, but its not entirely to blame. Look at Laidlaw against London Irish. Had John Houston outside him but still managed to manipulate his backline to open the Irish defence up. Plenty of Fly halfs have to deal with poor 12s. Johnny Sexton still manages to get his backline moving even with Darcy outside him, Berrick Barnes has Tom Carter partnered with him, a player so bad commentators dont hide their dislike for him. Just a few examples to illustrate that Morrison isnt entirely the reason for Weirs poor distribution. Dont get me wrong, having a decent 12 outside helps, but if hes as good as you say he is, he should be able to work around Morrison.

Read back at my previous posts on this thread, Im not in the justice for NDL crew. He needs a kick up the arse.

And your post seems to assume that I havent actually seen Weir that much and that I dont know what im talking about. Ive watched just about every minute of Weir thats been televised over the past two seasons. That is where ive drawn my opinion from.

I certainly wasn’t trying to say you’re ill-informed. If it came across like that then sorry. And sorry for lumping you in with the pro-NDL crowd. That was lazy of me.

I think we all recognise that Weir can improve, and that the presence of Morrison can’t excuse every mistake of his. But, the thing is that he doesn’t make many of them. I would contend that he’s our best bet for the flyhalf slot at the moment, and that he should get at least one game there on the tour, with Laidlaw at 9. I would also say that his predilection for putting boot to ball is a lot to do with how Lineen wants Glasgow to play the game. As you know, they are very much a territory, pressure, points type of team. The set-up under Bradley at Edinburgh is very different. Right now, Weir’s natural game is probably more suited to Lineen’s way of doing things, but he definitely has a running game in him, unlike Parks.

Oh, and glad we both agree that Jackson isn’t the answer at the moment. He can’t place kick for toffee.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I think we all recognise that Weir can improve, and that the presence of Morrison can’t excuse every mistake of his. But, the thing is that he doesn’t make many of them. I would contend that he’s our best bet for the flyhalf slot at the moment, and that he should get at least one game there on the tour, with Laidlaw at 9. I would also say that his predilection for putting boot to ball is a lot to do with how Lineen wants Glasgow to play the game. As you know, they are very much a territory, pressure, points type of team. The set-up under Bradley at Edinburgh is very different. Right now, Weir’s natural game is probably more suited to Lineen’s way of doing things, but he definitely has a running game in him, unlike Parks.

+1

[Imperialbigdave]

His distribution can improve, and is already very, very good.

Where does this concensus come from? Weirs distribution is slow, laboured and for 90% of the game serves only to move the ball wide but not forward. Watch him take the ball, hes already slowing down by the time it comes to him, takes 2-3 steps, slows, turns and ships it along the line. Granted he actually attacks the line once-twice in a game, so he can do it, but at the moment he shows little more invention or ability to bring other players in than Parks.

I really dont care how good his kicking is, weve had almost ten years of a fly-half who was a good kicker, and he dragged scottish rugby into the dirt.

Weir is 20 years old. Repeat that to yourself until it properly sinks in. It would be criminal, utterly criminal, if we ignored a player as talented as Weir just because, at his young age, he isn’t the perfect flyhalf. The basic requirements for a flyhalf are already there – awesome kicking from hand and tee, strong defence and a good range of passing.

Weir has always played better when paired with a creative centre, just as Laidlaw does. Look at the 6N – Laidlaw looked pretty average with Morrison next to him, but he looks like a genius with Scott beside him at Edinburgh. Same for Weir. With Morrison at 12 for Glasgow, Weir has to constantly check his play and think about how to get round the creative black hole in the shirt next to him. Against the Saxons with Scott at his side, he could ship it to Scott without thinking knowing that his 12 would do something decent with it. Please watch the highlights of that game – Weir played an absolute blinder, he really did. Plus, Glasgow aren’t a team that generate lightning quick ball anyway, so by the time Weir gets it the oppo defence are often already on him.

I still don’t understand why you’re willing to excuse NDL’s averageness in a Scotland shirt because he has Morrison beside him, but are not willing to do the same for Weir when he also has Morrison beside him at Glasgow. Weir is a far more rounded player that Parks ever was, and will only get better. For my money he’s Scotland’s best all-rounder flyhalf, and should be given a run in the Scotland team alongside a creative and astute scrum half and 12, like Laidlaw and Scott.

I know Weirs twenty years old. I know he can improve. I didnt say anywhere that he couldnt. But I refuse to jump on the bandwagon at the moment "just because hes not Jackson". He needs to display more of a game at glasgow before he should be taking the 10 shirt for Scotland.

I also believe he is far to eager to put boot to ball at times when there is space outside. The Morrison argument has some credibility, but its not entirely to blame. Look at Laidlaw against London Irish. Had John Houston outside him but still managed to manipulate his backline to open the Irish defence up. Plenty of Fly halfs have to deal with poor 12s. Johnny Sexton still manages to get his backline moving even with Darcy outside him, Berrick Barnes has Tom Carter partnered with him, a player so bad commentators dont hide their dislike for him. Just a few examples to illustrate that Morrison isnt entirely the reason for Weirs poor distribution. Dont get me wrong, having a decent 12 outside helps, but if hes as good as you say he is, he should be able to work around Morrison.

Read back at my previous posts on this thread, Im not in the justice for NDL crew. He needs a kick up the arse.

And your post seems to assume that I havent actually seen Weir that much and that I dont know what im talking about. Ive watched just about every minute of Weir thats been televised over the past two seasons. That is where ive drawn my opinion from.

I certainly wasn’t trying to say you’re ill-informed. If it came across like that then sorry. And sorry for lumping you in with the pro-NDL crowd. That was lazy of me.

I think we all recognise that Weir can improve, and that the presence of Morrison can’t excuse every mistake of his. But, the thing is that he doesn’t make many of them. I would contend that he’s our best bet for the flyhalf slot at the moment, and that he should get at least one game there on the tour, with Laidlaw at 9. I would also say that his predilection for putting boot to ball is a lot to do with how Lineen wants Glasgow to play the game. As you know, they are very much a territory, pressure, points type of team. The set-up under Bradley at Edinburgh is very different. Right now, Weir’s natural game is probably more suited to Lineen’s way of doing things, but he definitely has a running game in him, unlike Parks.

Oh, and glad we both agree that Jackson isn’t the answer at the moment. He can’t place kick for toffee.

agreed. As ive said, I do believe he has it in him, and perhaps the tahs game is the opportunity to see if he can bring it out on a big stage.

[RDW]

I suppose it depends on how Robinson wants to play - Play like Glasgow and pick Weir, play like Edinburgh and pick Laidlaw at 10.

Although knowing Robinson we'll play like Glasgow with Laidlaw at 10, or play like Edinburgh with Weir at 10!

Or even worse - play like neither of the two and have Jackson starting!

[Captain_Sensible]

Does anyone know how good/bad the Waratahs are? I don't really keep track of S15 rugby, so I've no idea what we'll be up against when we play them.

[Imperialbigdave]

Does anyone know how good/bad the Waratahs are? I don't really keep track of S15 rugby, so I've no idea what we'll be up against when we play them.

Good setpiece, generally all rounders, but can be opened up in the wide channels. Suffering from the loss of Beale and Mitchells injury. Cracking Fly half in Berrick Barnes.

[Scot Abroad]

Does anyone know how good/bad the Waratahs are? I don't really keep track of S15 rugby, so I've no idea what we'll be up against when we play them.

Good setpiece, generally all rounders, but can be opened up in the wide channels. Suffering from the loss of Beale and Mitchells injury. Cracking Fly half in Berrick Barnes.

Barnes will be with the OZ squad, as will Ashley-Cooper. They’re probably their most dangerous backs. They’re not having the best season and are sitting 2nd in the Oz conference on 4 wins from 9 games, but that’s only because the Australian teams are crap this year. They’d be 5th in the NZ conference. It’ll still be a tough game but it’s a good chance to give the fringe players a start.

[RDW]

Last nights performance confirmed to me that Laidlaw is the man in possession of the Scotland shirt - he had a fantastic game and should have been MOTM if it wasn't for a certain Mossy playing his last game!

Great variety in attack, fantastic passing and good kicking too actually. Plus his kicking at goal really is international class.

Weir will be a good person to have on the bench, and is still young so will only get better.

On another note Matt Scott really looks the real deal for me. Great runner, defender and passer and actually has a rugby brain. Him and Dunbar can really develop into a potent midfield for Scotland. Saying that, De Luca had a really good game last night and will be in the mix too.

So looking good for Scotland - but we've said that many times before!

On a side note I saw that Hamilton was scrapping yesterday and is likely to get a ban - makes the 2nd row an interesting selection if he is!

[funnyExiledScot]

I agree RDW. For this summer it has to be Laidlaw, and hopefully it'll help Scott settle in at 12 playing with a familiar 10 (and NDL at 13 as well). Weir on the bench.

If we achieve nothing else this summer, glueing the Scotland 12 shirt to Matt Scott is essential.

If Hamilton is banned, then Gilchrist should certainly tour (and I'd give him a start personally).

4.Gilchrist 5.Gray

Ryder on the bench.

I hope Hamilton is available personally, but a great chance for Gilchrist if not. Just hope we don't just go with Kellock "for experience". He isn't on the top of the game at the moment, and he needs to be to merit selection.

[123456789]

If Hamilton is banned I'd go for:

15. Hogg
14. Jones
13. Dunbar
12. Scott
11. Visser
10. Weir/ Laidlaw
9. Blair
8. Denton
7. Rennie/ Fusaro
6. Harley
5. Gilchrist
4. Gray
3. Murray
2. Ford
1. Welsh

[Imperialbigdave]

Agreed re Laidlaw. Faultless last night. For everyone who keeps saying hes nothing more than a scrumhalf playing fly half, watch the highlights on stv tonight, if thats a guy whos playing out of position, hes going to be untouchable if he keeps playing 10.

[RDW]

Agreed re Laidlaw. Faultless last night. For everyone who keeps saying hes nothing more than a scrumhalf playing fly half, watch the highlights on stv tonight, if thats a guy whos playing out of position, hes going to be untouchable if he keeps playing 10.

+1

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

IBD & RDW, I don't think I've seen anyone making the comment that Laidlaw looks like "a guy who's playing out of position" at club level, but during the 6Ns he did not convince me that he has shaken that tag off at international level. If it keeps you guys happy, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't believe for one second that Scotland's medium-term solution at flyhalf is Laidlaw

[Imperialbigdave]

IBD & RDW, I don't think I've seen anyone making the comment that Laidlaw looks like "a guy who's playing out of position" at club level, but during the 6Ns he did not convince me that he has shaken that tag off at international level. If it keeps you guys happy, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't believe for one second that Scotland's medium-term solution at flyhalf is Laidlaw

other forums mate

[RDW]

It was his first games at stand off at international level!

Plus he played very well in the hk semi final which is pretty much the same level.

Weir is one for the future, bit other than his goal kicking he's definitely not shown me anything to show that he's an international 10!

Laidlaw has his faults, but he's definitely in great form at 10 just now and he'll do a good job for us.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

It was his first games at stand off at international level!

Plus he played very well in the hk semi final which is pretty much the same level.

Weir is one for the future, bit other than his goal kicking he's definitely not shown me anything to show that he's an international 10!

Laidlaw has his faults, but he's definitely in great form at 10 just now and he'll do a good job for us.

C'mon, lads, let's be realistic - 2 teams (France and Wales) worked out his defensive weakness in the 10 channel, don't imagine that others are not going to do the same. The international game is too quick to allow us to repeat the Parks-thing and hide him at blindside wing - it just won't work.

Really hacked off with Hamilton's efforts in Reading yesterday - what a donkey, wouldn't be at all surprised to see him miss out on the summer tour now

[RDW]

His defense has been top notch the last few games - looks like he's learned!

If you're wanting to write off every players performance after only 5 games then we wouldn't have many players left!

This is his first season as 10 - he's now played some big games and learnt a he'll of a lot. In my opinion he's our first choice 10.

You're welcome to disagree though!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

His defense has been top notch the last few games - looks like he's learned!

If you're wanting to write off every players performance after only 5 games then we wouldn't have many players left!

This is his first season as 10 - he's now played some big games and learnt a he'll of a lot. In my opinion he's our first choice 10.

You're welcome to disagree though!

RDW, I don't doubt that he's learned a lot as he's an extremely intelligent player, in fact one of my current Scotland favourites, but I'd like him to play at 9. Oddly at club level I haven't seen anyone target his channel, but I can certainly see Australia sending McCabe and their backrows up there, not to mention what the Islanders will likely do. So I'm not writing him off at all, quite the contrary he starts at 9 for my Scotland team. I suspect we will disagree - bizarrely I have no idea which way Robinson will go - probably Rhubarb! If he puts Laidlaw at 10, then equally I expect him to use that as an excuse for Morrison or SLamont at IC!

[RDW]

He'll put him on the wing with shlong at 10 no doubt...

[123456789]

Just discovered that we're also playing the Cook Islands in a full test game, who haven't played in a world cup before surely we must be targeting 150+ points, what is the point in this and will it effect our ranking at all?
It could be good for confidence though...

[RDW]

Where did you see that? Got to be a 2nd string team surely.

[LondonTiger]

Just discovered that we're also playing the Cook Islands in a full test game, who haven't played in a world cup before surely we must be targeting 150+ points, what is the point in this and will it effect our ranking at all?
It could be good for confidence though...

If there is more than 10pts difference in ranking - the higher ranked team cannot gain anything from winning.

[Imperialbigdave]

Thatll be bloody embarrasing if we lose that game. Which I can see happening.

[123456789]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_mid-year_rugby_test_series#Week_4

We play them 4 days before Fiji so I imagine it might be used as a warm up, however I struggle to see what we gain from it except brownie points from the IRB and a potentially embarrassing situation, unless we're planning on hosting a world cup anytime soon which I highly doubt.
Their website was last updated in 2010, their biggest win was a 77-0 defeat of Tahiti in 2001 and their biggest defeat was a 90-0 defeat to Tonga in 2006, they have 526 male players in the country. They compete in the Foru Oceania cup and their best result was second in 2009 when they lost 29-21 to Papua new Guinea. I cannot find any recent results of theirs however the match must surely be a convincing win and the only positive I can find is that it should improve our try scoring stats.

[Imperialbigdave]

I wouldnt trust wikipedia unless you can find it quoted elsewhere. Seems a bit strange that its two days after playing the tahs aswell.

[123456789]

I personally think it should be Blair/ Weir with Laidlaw on the bench covering both positions, but what we're forgetting is that Scotland's coach is Andy Robinson and that he loves Ruriadh Jackson and therefore neither Laidlaw or Weir will start in fact if they're lucky they'll get half a game against the Cook islands, and before you get your hopes up Cusiter will be starting at 9 because Robinson classes him as his first choice 9 in fact he has said that several times to the media in the past; do not be surprised if Morrison is captain and anyone but Rob Harley gets to play 6.

[Majestic83]

After this weekends rabo and aviva games a few players for me really put their hands up for starting spots.
Firstly the Glasgow pack were outstanding especially at scrum time, Moray Low looks as if he has found his form again and must be a shout for the 3 jersey as cross looks fragile still at scrums and euan murray is still blowing hot and cold.
Grant Gilchrist again was outstanding at murrayfield on saturday, carried the ball well and worked really hard around the pitch, if hamilton is banned i'd start gilchrist with gray. Kellock seems to have lost his edge and is behind ryder on merit at glasgow.
In the backs on Saturday the player i thought was excellent was Tom Brown, was really good in defence and made some really important tackles and looked very dangerous with ball in hand, normally a full back but just as good on the wing.

My starting xv would be

1. Welsh
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Hamilton/Gilchrist
5. Gray
6. Harley
7. Rennie
8. Denton
9. Blair
10. Laidlaw
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. De Luca
14. Brown
15. Hogg

Picked Laidlaw at 10 as he is getting better and better playing there all the time, he's only played 20 odd games at 10 in his whole career but is looking more and more confident there.
I'm not the biggest De Luca fan but having been at the game on saturday De Luca and Scott work very well together as a centre pairing and seem to read what each other is doing very well. De Luca's defence was outstanding too, he put in some big big hits and his rush defence really limited what treviso could do.
I'd pick Tom Brown at 14, he is going to be a great full back but Hogg is the form 15, Lee Jones has played ok at 14 but I think overall Brown is the better player, definitely better in defence and looks more of a threat as he seems more confident to back himself and has plenty of gas.

[RDW]

I like that team majestic. My only worry about a gray/gilchrist combo is that they are both a bit soft!

Agree re tom Brown - he has been fantastic this year and is very aggressive in defense.

[123456789]

I'd go for:
15. Hogg
14. Jones
13. Dunbar
12. Scott
11. Brown
10. Weir
9. Blair
8. Denton
7. Rennie
6. Harley
5. Gilchrist
4. Gray
3. Low
2. Ford
1. Welsh

16. Cross
17. MacArthur
18. Kellock
19. Any of our back rows
20. Laidlaw
21. De Luca
22. Sean Lamont

My only problem is the lack of experience in the backs, there's 10 caps not including Blair and I wouldn't be disappointed if Laidlaw got the 9 or 10 shirt.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I'd go for:
15. Hogg
14. Jones
13. Dunbar
12. Scott
11. Brown
10. Weir
9. Blair
8. Denton
7. Rennie
6. Harley
5. Gilchrist
4. Gray
3. Low
2. Ford
1. Welsh

16. Cross
17. MacArthur
18. Kellock
19. Any of our back rows
20. Laidlaw
21. De Luca
22. Sean Lamont

My only problem is the lack of experience in the backs, there's 10 caps not including Blair and I wouldn't be disappointed if Laidlaw got the 9 or 10 shirt.

Numbers, I'd go for that team too, with MacVisser to replace Brown as soon as he is eligible, and Brown to replace Schlong on the bench at that point too. As you rightly highlight tho, the lack of international experience could be a problem, and for that reason I have no doubt that Robinson will stick with at least a few of the same old guff

[funnyExiledScot]

Sounds like we're going to need two teams given the schedule, which isn't a bad thing. Good chance to test out some options.

I'm assuming Hamilton is injured.

1st XV:

1.Welsh 2.Ford 3.Low 4.Gilchrist 5.Gray 6.Harley 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Blair 10.Laidlaw 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.De Luca 14.Jones 15.Hogg

2nd XV:

1.Shiells 2.MacArthur 3 Murray 4.Kellock 5.Ryder 6.Strokosch 7.Fusaro 8.Vernon 9.Cusiter 10.Weir 11.S Lamont 12.Dunbar 13.Ansbro 14.Evans 15.Brown

Would be good to see some of those options in action over the summer.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Sounds like we're going to need two teams given the schedule, which isn't a bad thing. Good chance to test out some options.

I'm assuming Hamilton is injured.

1st XV:

1.Welsh 2.Ford 3.Low 4.Gilchrist 5.Gray 6.Harley 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Blair 10.Laidlaw 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.De Luca 14.Jones 15.Hogg

2nd XV:

1.Shiells 2.MacArthur 3 Murray 4.Kellock 5.Ryder 6.Strokosch 7.Fusaro 8.Vernon 9.Cusiter 10.Weir 11.S Lamont 12.Dunbar 13.Ansbro 14.Evans 15.Brown

Would be good to see some of those options in action over the summer.

Is that you being generous, or do you just mean unavailable/banned?!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Sounds like we're going to need two teams given the schedule, which isn't a bad thing. Good chance to test out some options.

I'm assuming Hamilton is injured.

1st XV:

1.Welsh 2.Ford 3.Low 4.Gilchrist 5.Gray 6.Harley 7.Rennie 8.Denton 9.Blair 10.Laidlaw 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.De Luca 14.Jones 15.Hogg

2nd XV:

1.Shiells 2.MacArthur 3 Murray 4.Kellock 5.Ryder 6.Strokosch 7.Fusaro 8.Vernon 9.Cusiter 10.Weir 11.S Lamont 12.Dunbar 13.Ansbro 14.Evans 15.Brown

Would be good to see some of those options in action over the summer.

Could live with those, fES, altho would prefer McInally or Wilson over Vernon personally

[RDW]

We not forgetting Fraser McKenzie here? Anyone know how he's been playing?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

We not forgetting Fraser McKenzie here? Anyone know how he's been playing?

No sign of him playing for Sale in their last 4 games, RDW, with Vernon only making two brief cameos off the bench

[RDW]

Shame, he was playing well around the 6n and would have had a call up if he hadn't injured himself.

[123456789]

I've been impressed by Henry Pyrgos this year, does he deserve a call-up ahead of Cusiter?

[Majestic83]

Fraser MacKenzie is still injured or not quite right to return yet, think Sale are waiting till next season now so he gets his shoulder fully sorted and get a full pre season in.
I was forgetting about Tom Ryder, he could be worth partnering Richie at 2nd row as they seem to have gelled.
Looking at the 2 teams funnyexiledscot has put down it shows we are getting a lot stronger in depth as there are a few other guys that could be added into those teams too.
If Ryan Wilson was fit I'd have him in ahead of Vernon but think Ryan won't be fit to tour. The other option I'd look at would be Blair Cowan the number 8 from Worcester, been very impressed by him, big ball carrier which is what Scotland needs and is a huge hitter in defence. Can play anywhere in the back row too so would be a good impact sub to come on.

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