Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

by mystiroakey Fri 13 Jul 2012, 11:47 am

First topic message reminder :

Btw Fader 25 is fine anyway- your in the healthy scale so either way its no dramas at all mate!

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:28 pm

If he was a kiddie fiddler then thats how he deserves to be remembered.

by incontinentia Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:12 pm

Wonder why they waited til now to speak out, why not do it when he was alive and could be brought to justice (if guilty).

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:16 pm

Who knows, maybe they felt scared or somehow ashamed which is not often unusualy in the situations.

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:21 pm

I saw a documentary on this before- and some girls did actually tell the poilce but there was no proof or something and they didnt do anything about it at the time!- Well maybe anyway- the details are abit hazy

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:28 pm

Lets be honest, he ticks all the boxes......freaky looking, chose a career where he could meet kids and sit them on his lap......never married...lived with his mum who he doted on. Clealry guilty as sin. Or am I just bitter because Jim never fixed it for me.....

by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:33 pm

Do we know he wasn’t just honouring some jim il fix it requests?

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:35 pm

Dear Jim, Please can you fix it for me to be mentally traumatised for life........

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:56 pm

I shouldnt laugh!!!

by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 3:40 pm

On a similar note, does anyone else think that in the case where the teacher ran away with the girl to France that it should just have been put down to true love?

They both risked a great deal, thus proving the love between them. And further she was over the age of consent in France. I just see this as a great love story more than anything more sinister.

All they had to do for it to be ok was for him to resign from his job and wait until she was 16. They must have really wanted to be with each other to not be able to think it through.

And to be fair, she has a pretty good rack.

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 3:44 pm

Whats the age of consent in France, about 7 ? Did Jim fix it for a lot of girls to see the Eiffel Tower ?

by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 3:47 pm

Did Jim fix it for a lot of girls to see the Eiffel Tower ?

yes, if of course he used that as a nickname for his man sausage.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:12 pm

Where's the evidence? Nice of them to wait until he's dead and can't defend himself eh?

On a controversial subject, we're very quick to pillory so-called child molesters but there's never any attempt to look at them in any other way except classically evil. Maybe their proclivities are similar, to them, as a typical hetero- or homosexual and homosexuality was deemed to be pretty deviant/unnatural etc not so long ago.
I accept the lack of two-way consent, but that doesn't make it any less of a driver for the molester does it? Sex, however 'deviant', is a pretty powerful motivator.

by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:20 pm

Navy

i agree, it is social norms and not evolution which tell us girls aged 12-16 are too young to have sex with. They could after all have healthy offspring.

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:24 pm

Navy, why would they choose to make up the story, its not just one person is it. Each story serves to collaborate the others surely ?
You are pretty dismissive of the lack of two way consent issue. Im heterosexual, there are many women I would have loved to have slept with and havent. So should I have just r*** them and said that sex is a powerful motivator as an argument in court ?

by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:29 pm

Diggers

You have missed the point, no one is saying it should be acted on or forced upon anyone. Rather a person with that particular penchant is no more evil than anyone with any other sexual preference.

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:36 pm

It's a good but controversial subject. Whtas the difference between a 15 yr old and a 16 yr old. Not much really.. but then when we talk of traditional child molesting do we think of someone ssleeping with 15 year olds or with kids that are invariably not past puberty..

I don't think child molesters are neccesarily evil either.. I think they are mangled mentally from genetics ,chemical abuse or from not getting regular sex...so they fantasies about different things..

My uncle worked in a studio when he was young and Gary glitter was in there most days. He said he used to eat pills like there were smarties..

My mate didn't have sex for 3 years and I swear he started acting weird.. he used to say he hated porn yet I caught him staring at it one night.. then first thing in the morning- he was staring at it for 6 hours straighr!!!. I also found 15 pics of myself in his bedroom draw...... he was never gay.. but I wondered. Eventually I introduced him to aanother friend of mine(female) and they are married.. he seems normal. But certainly went through a twisted stage

Is it evil to fantasies about sleeping with kids.. I dunno.. thank gawd I don't I suppose. It probably is evil to carry that out. Though..

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:38 pm

A lot of it's social norms but they're there for a reason usually. A worldy, monied, determined adult is going to find ways to influence/groom someone who's underage and/or vulnerable...hence the social norms.
This sort of thing appears not to be as rare as we'd like to think. Ergo, is it 'normal' for these people? If it is, should it be looked at more scientifically rather than in the typical Daily Mail/Sun/idiot fashion that's the current norm?

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:39 pm

I dont think Im missing the point Mac as consent with this particular type of orientation is massive. The same issue doesnst apply with homsexuality, two men can be of an age to consent to have sex.
The fantasy here is to have sex with a minor....and we arent talking 15 year olds from Eastbourne.....who isnt sexually aware or active.
To me that makes the thought in itself deviant and clearly the act should it happen evil.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:44 pm

Diggers wrote:Navy, why would they choose to make up the story, its not just one person is it. Each story serves to collaborate the others surely ?
You are pretty dismissive of the lack of two way consent issue. Im heterosexual, there are many women I would have loved to have slept with and havent. So should I have just r*** them and said that sex is a powerful motivator as an argument in court ?

Why would anyone make up a story? I don't know. I do know that I'd require significant proof given the nature of the allegation. I don't know that one story corroborates another unless they're from completely independent sources. I don't know enough about this allegation against Savill, only what's on the Beeb and there's not a lot of info there.
I'm not dismissive of consent - hence I mentioned it. I wouldn't condone someone commiting r*** or sexually abusing a child. What I am questioning is the dismissal of the idea that for some of these people, the drives they're experiencing are 'normal' - for them. The dialogue around this sort of thing is always driven by the NotW/Daily Mail sort of 'thinking'.

McLaren wrote:You have missed the point, no one is saying it should be acted on or forced upon anyone. Rather a person with that particular penchant is no more evil than anyone with any other sexual preference.

Exactly. In which case, isn't it time it was investigated with a bit more thought?

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:47 pm

Diggers wrote:...To me that makes the thought in itself deviant and clearly the act should it happen evil.

Yes. By accepted social norms. Which, by definition, is a majority (usually) position. What about those rare cases that are part of a society which don't see such behaviour as deviant? I haven't the faintest what the attraction is but some clearly seem to see one.

by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:49 pm

Navy

Again, I agree, the social norms are there for very good reason but as you say we cant just dismiss someone as evil if they are unable to follow them.

"This sort of thing appears not to be as rare as we'd like to think. Ergo, is it 'normal' for these people? If it is, should it be looked at more scientifically rather than in the typical Daily Mail/Sun/idiot fashion that's the current norm?"

So true, and I would bet the psychiatry profession are in your corner.

by Hibbz Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:49 pm

Mysti, why were you looking through your mates bedroom drawer?

I reckon Saville was definitely a deviant but I'm not sure who benefits (other than the tv company obviously) from it all coming out now he's dead. Though I guess if he'd abused me/someone I knew I'd prefer him to be seen as the deviant he is rather than the good guy who did loads for chariddy mate.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:50 pm

Could someone please explain to me what is wrong with the use of the word 'r@pe' on this forum????? It's not a swear word. The presumed sensitivities of people these days are ridiculous!

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:50 pm

Looking for condoms..pulled a bird one night and took her back to his. He was commotosed in the lounge..

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:53 pm

Hibbz wrote:Mysti, why were you looking through your mates bedroom drawer?

Now, there's a pertinent question!

by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:56 pm

more to the point mysti,

How did your mate manage to go without sex for three years?

Actually, wheres super. Maybe he can explain how this is possible.

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:57 pm

Seville fits the bill lets be honest . 95% SURE..living with your mother is one thing.. but when your a millionaire without a partner... odd..

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:58 pm

Well I dunno. Very shy lad.. so I eventually hooked him up..

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:59 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:...To me that makes the thought in itself deviant and clearly the act should it happen evil.
Yes. By accepted social norms. Which, by definition, is a majority (usually) position. What about those rare cases that are part of a society which don't see such behaviour as deviant? I haven't the faintest what the attraction is but some clearly seem to see one.

So by your definition no sexual act is deviant ? If just one person considers it normal then it is indeed normal ?

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:00 pm

McLaren wrote:

How did your mate manage to go without sex for three years?

Its actually pretty easy....just get married. Crying or Very sad

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:05 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Seville fits the bill lets be honest . 95% SURE..living with your mother is one thing.. but when your a millionaire without a partner... odd..

Unusual maybe. Why the assumption that someone like that must be a bit of a perv?

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:07 pm

95% only nbs

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:08 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Seville fits the bill lets be honest . 95% SURE..living with your mother is one thing.. but when your a millionaire without a partner... odd..
Unusual maybe. Why the assumption that someone like that must be a bit of a perv?

Nobody would have made that assumption until several girls said he abused them....then the fact that he lived with his mum starts getting mentioned.
You seem to have a problem accepting that several people might be telling the truth here, why on earth would they choose to make it up Navy ? Its hardly something you'd want to brag.

by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:12 pm

Diggers

No one said they made it up, i think navy is just pointing out it would be silly to assume all pervs appear odd, or that all people who are odd are pervs. In the case of Jimmy it seems the evidence is mounting but until it is proven there is no need to assume guilt based on whehter anyone thinks he is a bit odd.

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:15 pm

To be a child molester(not ne necessarily a perv). We could assume that the person in question isn't emotionally developed..therefore someone that seems to need there mother around but also can't form any intimate relationship with another(man or women) could verymverymuch fit the bill

by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:18 pm

Mac, you keep answering for Navy. I think he has implied that re Jimmy it may have been made up, Im sure he will correct me if Im wrong.....and if so Im wondering why he thinks thats the case.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:20 pm

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:...To me that makes the thought in itself deviant and clearly the act should it happen evil.
Yes. By accepted social norms. Which, by definition, is a majority (usually) position. What about those rare cases that are part of a society which don't see such behaviour as deviant? I haven't the faintest what the attraction is but some clearly seem to see one.

So by your definition no sexual act is deviant ? If just one person considers it normal then it is indeed normal ?

No, now you're trying to get a rise out of me. I don't have a better suggestion than majority social 'norms' but I do have a problem with the daft assumption that just because one doesn't adhere to such norms, they must be inherently evil. Which is pretty much how paedophiles etc are viewed. On the other hand, I'm realistic enough to know that I'm pretty sure I'd happily garrot someone if they abused my daughter in some out-of-order way.
A problem with paedophilia, it would seem to me, is that society by definition says a minor isn't in a position to make a consensual decision about what they want to do sexually. By definition we've made a p@edophile's (Holy Sh1t! The forum filter won't even allow the use of the word 'p@edophile') position impossible. Still doesn't mean their drives are something they can do very much about does it? What should we do with them? Presumably some of them are 'born that way' - want to advocate chemical castration? What're the morals of that given they may have no more choice in their behaviour than, say, a black man has over the colour of his skin? All sounds a bit Nazi that does to me.
The politicians wouldn't dream of actually having a mature discussion of anything like this and they surely wouldn't listen to any suggestion that a p@edophile is acting out of their normal biological impulses.
I don't know what the answers are; I just don't much care for the assumption this sort of thing is black and white when there's clearly scope for a lot of grey in-between.

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:21 pm

Yeah why would someone make that up...

You would have to analyses the people in question..

However one answer. Not saying it's the case.

To make money by selling the story

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:23 pm

Nbs I agree this is not black and white...

by mystiroakey Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:26 pm

As much as I believe that a peodo is a kinda victim of his/her circumstance rather than just evil..

If I had kids and one was molested I would kill the peodo....

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:28 pm

Diggers wrote:Mac, you keep answering for Navy. I think he has implied that re Jimmy it may have been made up, Im sure he will correct me if Im wrong.....and if so Im wondering why he thinks thats the case.

If that's the implication I was making, it wasn't really how it was meant. That said though, journalism being the profession of impeccable morals that it is, I'd be interested in seeing that there's a bit more to it. It may have been made up; as I said before, who knows why people make stuff up? I just don't see why I should accept something on the basis of some statements that didn't merit any criminal charges when they were first brought up. Maybe if there isn't the evidence, there's a reason for that? I always tend to be a sceptic.
Still, if there's more that's come to light recently then I'm not advocating that it shouldn't investigated and, if true, Saville's memory be pilloried as it should be.

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