England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

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England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Recwatcher16 on Sun 12 Feb 2017 - 22:35

First topic message reminder :

Looks like Mako Vunipola will be available for the Italy game, with George, Sinkler, Haskell and Teo all starting. Billy Vunipola on schedule for the Irish game, although I will believe that when I see it, given his injury. Watson will also now be ready for Italian game and- is this the game for Brown to be 'rested' ?

I can see Clifford, Haskell & Hughes being a more balanced back row with Itoje moving forward, although how EJ would choose between Launchbury & Lawes is anyone's guess. Looking further forward and slightly left field, a Hughes, Haskell and Vunipola combo for the Irish game ?

I like the look of Teo whose running lines look top notch and if Hartley is benched clearly Farrell will be at ten with the armband, with Ford perhaps as the impact FH when bodies start to tire.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/02/12/billy-mako-vunipola-set-give-england-six-nations-grand-slam/

Ps. The internet link above is not the full title of the article, before anyone jumps on it.......

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 9:38

BamBam wrote:Mentioning that a player gets physically overpowered then praising Alex Goode in the same sentence seems the definition of an oxymoron 

Other wings who have been treated more harshly .. would that be a Mr Ashton? You can stop backing him now BS, he's leaving Saracens  Hug

Surely Strettle? Whistle

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Cyril on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 9:42

Yarde has been ok for England. Not outstanding, but not poor.

His strike rate is good (7 tries in 11 tests) including 2 against NZ and 2 again Aus. I thought he was one of England's better players in the 2014 NZ tour.

A lot of competition for wing now though (especially as Yarde doesn't cover other positions).

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 9:51

One thing Yarde has is power, so to suggest he gets overpowered is quite amusing. I seem to recall him bumping a certain Richie McCaw to score in that NZ were he was excellent in parts.

If anything, Yarde struggles with positiong, not power. As bam says, knocking someone for lack of power then mentiining Goode is hilarious.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Cyril on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 9:53

Yeah, I don't think Yarde struggles for power. He does tend to tackle round the chest and sometimes slips off (a bit like Ashton did/does) but it's not a power problem.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 9:54

Oh well Solomona soon.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 10:03

Bambam I am not asking for a recall for Goode or Ashton.

What have either got to do with Yarde not being good enough? It's not a defence saying but Ashton and Goode shouldn't play for England either!

Cyril the NZers tore Yarde to pieces. Doesn't matter if you score 2 tries if you let the opposition score 4...

Let's be honest England want to aspire to beat NZ, with Yarde on the wing? The Nzers would love it.

Yarde has power? Laugh Please stop making me laugh. Almost every single time I watch him play he gets munched/smashed/overpowered/outclassed.

Still don't understand the relevance of Goode? Is he in the England squad? I am not claiming Goode is powerful. I don't think I've ever suggested Goode is a powerful player.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 10:06

I can't remember Yarde being overpowered to be honest and he's done OK every time I've seen him play for England.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Cyril on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 10:08

I don't recall NZ 'tearing Yarde to pieces' either. There were plenty of defensive errors by England in the 3rd test but I don't remember Yarde being solely responsible for England leaking 4 tries across the series.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 10:09

Youre embarrassing yourself again BS. This is a rugby forum, its a good idea to know something about a topic before posting on it or you look a bit silly.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 10:21

I am pretty sure I've posted at least once Yarde being torn to shreds by the Nzers. Just need to watch video evidence....

Sgt Poorly really? I don't feel embarrassed at all. Know something at the topic? That's funny coming from you.

It's a forum you can agree to disagree sometimes but can't argue with video evidence.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 10:25

He did suck defensively on that tour as did Tuilagi and eastmond.in particular at various points. I've never noticed Yarde lack power though but I'm thinking in attack. Do you mean he just doesn't make big defensive hits as I think that's due to positioning mainly with a so so technique?

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 10:33

I dont think anybody apart from BS would think Yardes main issue in defence was his apparent lack of power???

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 10:40

Look perhaps it's just my perception. Every single time I watch Yarde play I don't see him physically imposing his will on the opposition, I see him getting smashed and in defence he's not a big physical presence either.

I don't see him shrugging off defenders with power. You don't need to big to be powerful. Stats wise Roko and Yarde are relatively similar height and weight but I think Roko is much more powerful.

I'd say Nowell is more powerful too.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 11:01

So now we are arguing who Englands fifth choice wing should be?
#firstworldproblems

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 11:04

6th once Solomona comes in!

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Cyril on Thu 23 Feb 2017 - 11:13

Indeed. Considering Wales have Cuthbert as the next cab off the rank we're in a pretty good position with wing depth. Heck, I'd have Banahan back rather than Cuthbert (as long as wee Shane doesn't make a comeback with his gritty tryline defence).

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gwlad on Sat 25 Feb 2017 - 18:13

Sack Howley

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gwlad on Sat 25 Feb 2017 - 18:13

Sack Howley

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Poorfour on Sat 25 Feb 2017 - 18:36

Gwlad wrote:Sack Howley

I can understand that you are upset, but do you really have to spam the boards with this? Grow up or sober up.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gwlad on Sat 25 Feb 2017 - 18:51

Poorfour wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Sack Howley

I can understand that you are upset, but do you really have to spam the boards with this? Grow up or sober up.

Oh dear, someone taking themselves a bit too seriously.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 25 Feb 2017 - 18:58

But stop spamming with nonsense

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gwlad on Sat 25 Feb 2017 - 23:59

No 7&1/2 wrote:But stop  spamming with nonsense

Ok. as an expert on nonsense i fully respect your opinion.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by gregortree on Sun 26 Feb 2017 - 1:55

Gwlad
Look a bit lost on this 'England choices' thread.
Try the Welsh Coaches thread. I think it's down there somewhere near the bottom of the 6n table. Good luck with your new coach.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by kingelderfield on Sun 26 Feb 2017 - 23:41

I would have liked EJ to have experimented with a new back 3 today but it didn't happen, that said I doubt we'll see May again this term and I think Brown's days are now numbered, though unless injury intervene's I expect him to keep the shirt for the remainder of the 6 nations.

Farrell has credit in the bank but today was one he'll wish to forget.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:22

kingelderfield wrote:I would have liked EJ to have experimented with a new back 3 today but it didn't happen, that said I doubt we'll see May again this term and I think Brown's days are now numbered, though unless injury intervene's I expect him to keep the shirt for the remainder of the 6 nations.

Farrell has credit in the bank but today was one he'll wish to forget.

Is there room to get rid of May and Brown?

Watson Nowell Daly and a a tin of custrad on the bench? One of them will stay in the mnatch day squad. May didnt have a great game, and Brown looks increasingly average against Daly who does some very special things and has bags of pace. With Watson still to return his starting place is under threat....but I donmt see that as an overall end to both Borwn and Mays 6 nations.

Im pretty certaibn Dalys nailed himself in as a long wing / fullback though. His long kicking was exceptional on a day when otehrs were frankly woeful. Teo has done himself no harm either and will surely keep a spot.

Fords place has to be questioned after another poor display, but then Farrell had possibly his worst game (certainly with the boot) for England yet. Owf does have a lot of credit in teh bank though and is clearly a Joines favourite and seen as a leader (not to mention probable captain if Hartley does go). If Ford does drop to the bench then that leaves a place for Slade to start or Joseph to return with Teo at 12 or 13 accordingly.

Care / Youngs is the usual coin toss.

Theres a lot of things that could be done with the backs... Nowell, Teo, Daly and Farrell are the only ones I see as must start for the next game. Everyone needs to spend a of time being taught how to kick by Daly.

Vunipola to start the next game. The questions about George will stay espeically as Hartleys leadership look shaked for the first time since he took charge. Im still not convinced it panic mode time or that changing ahead of two tough and important games is a smart idea though.
Other changes in the pack are difficult to really see unless players are returning from futness. Its more about making sure they are prepared and drilled if Scotland decide to try and break up their attacking game the way Italy did. And telling them not to try and throw long linouts when they have by far the better jumpers in the middle....its just not worth the risk.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:23

Gwlad wrote:Sack Howley

He hasnt even won the Premier league yet ...you cant sack him till he does that

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:27

Jones didn't experiment in positions that he should have vs Italy and now England are in a more precarious position despite winning.

Winning is good but you could see the frustation on Jones' face and he's too proud to admit mistakes were made.

I admit it would have been bold to drop Hartley but now you can see why more clearly I was advocating it. Whether you like Hartley or not, he's just not playing well. He's also not delivering the so called world class leadership some people say he does. Not in the first 3 games of the 6 nations anyway.

He has to get some credit for the winning run of course but a captain surely has to lead by example?

To be fair to Hartley he wasn't the worst England player on the pitch, Farrell,Cole and Hughes were worse but realistically none of them can be dropped for Scotland and Ireland due to lack of good alternatives.

If Jones was to start Sinckler, it should have been this game.

George has been flawless in the set piece so far, not missing one lineout and he's been superior in the scrum. Almost every single time, George comes on, the scrum improves.

To be fair to Hartley his lineout haven't been shocking, not flawless though.

Commentary gave credit to Mako but come on.... it's George who helps his team mate out. It's the same when any LH comes on with George, the scrum gets better.


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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:29

You said pick Haskell for captain didn't you? He would have made the difference alright!

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Scottrf on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:31

Yeah, if you are going to criticise Hartley for not leading them through the confusion, you have to ask 'who did?'.
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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:38

I thought Itoje looked the most like he knew what was going on. I thought he took the fight to the Italians the most. Other than him Launchbury and Lawes were two of the more switched on England players.

In order of confusion - most confused to least confused IMO.

Hughes
Cole
Hartley
Marler
Haskell
Launchbury
Lawes
Itoje

Haskell at least tried to help his poor captain out who didn't have a clue what was going on.

Haskell has been panned for asking for clarification but I thought he did Hartley a favour there. Take the flack off Hartley.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:43

I'm not having that beshocked! Fine to say Hartley didn't get his players together and rejog tactics on the fly but you can't seriously suggest that Haskell s leadership was good either. Again it's all moot on the captaincy as it would be Farrell but your own pick was lacking.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Exiledinborders on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:48

beshocked wrote:I thought Itoje looked the most like he knew what was going on. I thought he took the fight to the Italians the most. Other than him Launchbury and Lawes were two of the more switched on England players.

In order of confusion - most confused to least confused IMO.

Hughes
Cole
Hartley
Marler
Haskell
Launchbury
Lawes
Itoje

Haskell at least tried to help his poor captain out who didn't have a clue what was going on.

Haskell has been panned for asking for clarification but I thought he did Hartley a favour there. Take the flack off Hartley.
The problem with Hughes is not that he was confused it is that he make so little ground for a man of his size and knocks on in contact far too often. The return of Billy Vunipola cannot come soon enough.

Good news for England is that by 2019 RWC young Mercer from Bath should be ready. In the U20s he reminds me of Itoje when he was in the U20s - just operating on a different level to the rest.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:49

Yep Farrell looked great didn't he.... give him the captaincy....

One of the worst performances I've seen from him. Played like captain material....

Sure it's one game but hardly supporting giving captaincy to him.

As for Ford being a great defender.... Laugh

Haskell isn't the captain... but he did try and help his captain out. No Haskell didn't show great leadership either but then except for Itoje who did?

I am not sure I would burden Itoje with the captaincy just yet (yes I've changed my mind).

Haskell at least performed better than quite a few of the England players (6/10 for me). Not great but not as bad as others.

Exiledinborders the problem with Hughes wasn't just ball carrying, gave away far too many penalties and made a knock on from an easy pass.


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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Scottrf on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:50

So you'd remove the captaincy from Hartley but leave it vacant?
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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:52

Farrell is the next captain. Not saying he should be just that he is. Fords tackle was awful wasn't it. Rubbish from George as well. And Brown.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:53

Scottrf I'd still give it to Haskell as at least he's performing better than Hartley and is a guaranteed starter.

If you can name a better alternative I'd like to hear it.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:54

In seriousness to the thread Clifford put his hand up for that 8 shirt. Slade for a midfield spot and Nowell for the wing.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by robbo277 on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 9:54

A lot of questions for Jones, looking at potential changes for the Scotland game;

Nowell for May is probably nailed on.

Watson in for Brown and a rejig of the back 3?

Joseph back in and a rejig of the midfield? Or Slade from the start?

Youngs or Care?

Would we want to try Clifford at 8 with Hughes on the bench? If so, we would probably have to start Mako and/or Sinckler to compensate.

George to start, or stick with the skipper?

My 23 would probably be:

Marler, Hartley (C), Sinckler, Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Haskell, Clifford.
Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Farrell, Te'o, Watson, Daly.
George, Mako, Cole, Wood, Hughes, Care, Slade, Brown.

Scotland have a smaller, quicker team, so I think having Clifford in there will help counter the threat of their back row, but with Sinckler coming in to beef up the carrying. I also think they won't be able to send big runners down Ford's channel, because they don't have many. The back three have the pace and ability to hurt Scotland too.

Finishers I have left some big carriers to come on and cause damage, but we can also come on and turn the screw at scrum time, especially with Cole coming in there. We have Care and Slade who can raise the tempo as well. Wood and Brown offer a couple of safety options if we need experienced heads to close a game out.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:02

Jones didn't lean anything about possible combinations because of the lack of structure in the game.

Still not sure why Te'o and May didn't manage to combine for a try down the right wing. Seemed like Te'o delayed his pass, then tried to smuggle it away while May was just starting to change his line.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:07

The team I think Jones will pick:

Mako, Hartley(c), Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Haskell, Hughes, Youngs, Ford, Daly, Farrell, Joseph, Nowell, Brown

George, Marler, Sinkler, Wood, Clifford, Care, Te'o, Watson

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:09

Rugby Fan wrote:
Still not sure why Te'o and May didn't manage to combine for a try down the right wing. Seemed like Te'o delayed his pass, then tried to smuggle it away while May was just starting to change his line.

My read was that Te'o delayed the offload so May moved away from touch and then Te'o gave it and effectively tackled May at the same time. Give it earlier an May scoots down the line and scores, but having delayed the pass there needed to be much better understanding between the pair.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:11

No 7&1/2 wrote:Farrell is the next captain.  Not saying he should be just that he is. Fords tackle was awful wasn't it. Rubbish from George as well. And Brown.

Farrell is the next captain? Really? Think it's a bit harsh on George expecting to tackle an outside centre running at full pace. If Ford slows Campagnaro enough then George would have got him.

Impressive Italian try though.

Your man May didn't do much, to be fair he didn't get much ball but Nowell and Daly were much more effective. I want to support May but more often than not he's a bystander.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by robbo277 on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:13

LondonTiger wrote:The team I think Jones will pick:

Mako, Hartley(c), Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Haskell, Hughes, Youngs, Ford, Daly, Farrell, Joseph, Nowell, Brown

George, Marler, Sinkler, Wood, Clifford, Care, Te'o, Watson

You might not be wrong, but that would be disappointing. Hughes and Brown deserve to be benched. Been quiet all tournament and then poor on Sunday.

I think bringing Joseph back in would be harsh on Te'o and Slade who both showed promise, but I guess if that was always a pre-planned move then they haven't done enough to demand their shirts.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:15

Yup may could have got a try but for the strange fumble pass. Not my man though. Yup george should have made the tackle as should ford as should brown for me.

As for Farrell yes clearly. You not noticed every time Hartley goes off he's the captain?

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:19

What did May do wrong to warrant so many calls for him to be dropped?

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:21

GeordieFalcon wrote:What did May do wrong to warrant so many calls for him to be dropped?
His pace was always borderline. He made a couple of big errors, and didnt really do much positive...admitedly without manay opporunities and on a error strewn day.
Its also down to pressure on his spot ... Nowell looked very good when he came on, and Watson is Watson when hes fully fit and match sharp.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:23

Just because someone is the captain for the final 20 doesn't mean they'll get it from the starting whistle.

Farrell has enough to worry about IMO.

Weird that Joseph got dropped like a stone but others have kept their places despite showing equally poor form. Bit unfair I'd say.

May could have got a try but didn't.... Just as George and Nowell combo for a try could have failed. It didn't.

I criticise players when they play badly, yes even Saracens players, Farrell had a shocker. Nowell made a big impact, I've changed my tune since 2014 because he's improved and grown as a player.


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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by robbo277 on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:25

GeordieFalcon wrote:What did May do wrong to warrant so many calls for him to be dropped?

He's been rotated with Nowell all tournament, Jones calling it horses for courses. I think Nowell is the better player, we tried to use May's pace against Italy as a weapon against them, but that obviously didn't come off (not May's fault). But if it's either/or for Scotland, I'd go with Nowell.

Playing captain hindsight a little, which is harsh as no-one would have seen Italy's tactics coming, but Nowell would have been a better fit against Italy to counter their game plan in my opinion.

Watson was also ahead of both in the pecking order and should be fully fit and ready for the Scotland game. He's a real try threat and I think we're stronger when we include him.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:29

So you don't believe that Farrell being handed the armband ever time Hartley goes off signified Jones would pick him. You're aware George has been getting more than 20 min aren't you beshocked?

Thought you wanted more options sought so Jones was having a look at centres. You don't believe he should have?

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Mon 27 Feb 2017 - 10:30

robbo277 can't see Jones dropping Daly whose had a good tournament so far. I've been impressed by him.

Can't say I expected him to slot comfortably in on the wing.

Might be a gamble but Jones should perhaps consider dropping Brown, playing Nowell,Daly and Watson as the back three.

beshocked

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

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