France team vs Ireland team

First topic message reminder :

France

Clement Poitrenaud; Vincent Clerc, Aurelien Rougerie, Wesley Fofana, Julien Malzieu; François Trinh-Duc, Morgan Parra; Jean-Baptiste-Poux, Dimiti Szarzewski, Nicolas Mas; Pascal Pape, Yoann Maestri; Thierry Dusautoir, Julien Bonnaire, Imanol Harinordoquy.

Replacements: William Servat, Vincent Debaty, Lionel Nallet, Louis Picamoles, Julien Dupuy, Lionel Beauxis, Maxime Mermoz


Ireland

R Kearney; T Bowe, K Earls, G D'Arcy, A Trimble; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross; D O'Callaghan, P O'Connell; S Ferris, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, T Court, D Ryan, P O'Mahony, E Reddan, R O'Gara, F McFadden.

+1 to all of that dave

But for me, a win is essential. I know that the cards, the betting and fate itself are stacked against us. But this side needs an immediate boost as even a close fought loss will drag confidence back down and that's no place to be with the year we have ahead of us.

France is essential for me. If we had to lose another game I'd settle for a loss to Scotland more than this one coming up. We need a big performance and we need to show we can win against a side that pushed NZ so close in the world cup.

If we lose to France, I'll be looking for wholesale changes not just one player here or there getting a start against Scotland. New break, new theories, new players or new coach - that's what will be in people's heads. Our 6N chances will be gone then and we can use the rest of it to have some real focus on correcting persistent issues. That's how important this game is.

Dupuy? I reckon Ferris might get more than a yellow if he ends up with an opportunity to tip tackle that little turd.



How do you pronounce this guys name? "Yoann Maestri" its a mystery to me....

A lot of fans minds are already drifting to a post-Kidney era of new hope. He's running out of time to turn it around. But Gatland's future was in doubt not so long ago and he did turn Wales around.

If Kidney loses that's three poor 6 Nations tournaments in a row, with the best squad Ireland have ever had. He may get sacked. But probably not, the IRFU will decide to endure the last year of his contract.

If he beats France, then a Championship win is on again and things start to look rosier. We need three good performances and three wins to get Ireland back on track.

Feckless Rogue wrote:A lot of fans minds are already drifting to a post-Kidney era of new hope. He's running out of time to turn it around. But Gatland's future was in doubt not so long ago and he did turn Wales around.

There's a difference between the two...Gatland had a game plan but not the players between 2008 - and summer 2011 to implement it. Kidney has the players but no gameplan.

roddersm wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:A lot of fans minds are already drifting to a post-Kidney era of new hope. He's running out of time to turn it around. But Gatland's future was in doubt not so long ago and he did turn Wales around.

There's a difference between the two...Gatland had a game plan but not the players between 2008 - and summer 2011 to implement it. Kidney has the players but no gameplan.

Kidney has a game plan it just goes against the instincts of his most naturally gifted players and confuses them.

Feckless Rogue wrote:
If he beats France, then a Championship win is on again and things start to look rosier. We need three good performances and three wins to get Ireland back on track.

Yep. And I know those are small margins on which to base depression versus hope but that's the white knuckle ride Kidney, his fellow coaches and the players he is picking are giving us. The team need a win and only they can have a say in that. Unfortunately for some of them, if they lose others will be having their say on the future... IRFU heads, media personel and us, the followers. As you said, the experimentation excuses are long gone, we have great individual players whose reputations are suffering because of what happens to them in the Irish shirt. Pressure is full on on the team and the coaches (those coaches left, that is!)

As a scotsman i look at your back row and simply ask why arent you playing a good 7? O'Brien is outstanding as is Ferris but they are both 6's. your supply of quick turn over ball has all but dried up playing both of them at once.
I think back to the H cup final against Northampton. Leinster started with OB at 7 and he had a quiet first half. They sorted out the scrum, brought Jennings on to play open side and got OB to carry, carry and then carry some more. Game won, simple.

I cannot understand why Kidney persists with such an unbalanced back row that is clearly not adding up to more than the sum of its three outstanding parts.

sensible post sensisball

to be fair jennings has not really done it in the green jersey despite being crucial to leinster.

balance of our back row is a problem but alas not our only one.

sensisball wrote:As a scotsman i look at your back row and simply ask why arent you playing a good 7?

We don't have a good 7 thats why. Ronan, Jennings and Faloon are the only natural opensides we have and they are either not good enough, not ready, injured, past it or all of the above.

O'Brien, Henry and O'Mahoney are the best options playing 7 that we have but all are really 6.5's or utility backrowers rather than specialist opensides.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:, Nicolas Mas

I can't wait for Mas v Healy

It worked when we had Wallace because Ferris was hitting rucks and clearing people out like a man possessed, Wallace played closer to the ruck too. But our ball carriers were at 7 and 8. 6 was a very tight role, very focused on hard graft and getting to as many rucks as possible.

Now we want our 6, 7 and 8 to carry all the time. Well it doesn't matter who you have in those shirts, somebody is going to need to hit a few rucks.

Thats the problem Notch we rely on our back row too much to carry ball....when we dominate the breakdown people complain that our back row is anonomous and didn't carry enough ... then when they carry people complain that the backrow is imbalanced.

Personally I think its all a load of media spin. This is the best Irish backrow that I can remember.

O'Briens work rate is off the chart and we simply can't have him, Ferris and Heaslip all maurauding around the place at the same time.

exactly notch. this back row issue is overstated due to our back play being so poor over the last 18 months and our go to method of attack being our back row running over people. to be a succesful team you do not need 3 tackle breaking back rows

as you say a few years back wallace used to do damage closer in ferris would smash rucks and heaslip carried well in wider channels

its not as if warburton,lydiate make massive yards ball in hand for wales and they are not doing too badly.

Personally i would drop SOB to the bench and give POM the 7 to see how he goes. SOB would be one hell of an impact sub for Heaslip, Ferris or POM during any stage of the game.

I would also give Reddan a start as he is quicker around the rucks, just look at what Scotland did to the French

Notch wrote:It worked when we had Wallace because Ferris was hitting rucks and clearing people out like a man possessed, Wallace played closer to the ruck too. But our ball carriers were at 7 and 8. 6 was a very tight role, very focused on hard graft and getting to as many rucks as possible.

Now we want our 6, 7 and 8 to carry all the time. Well it doesn't matter who you have in those shirts, somebody is going to need to hit a few rucks.

+1

roddersm wrote:Thats the problem Notch we rely on our back row too much to carry ball....when we dominate the breakdown people complain that our back row is anonomous and didn't carry enough ... then when they carry people complain that the backrow is imbalanced.

Personally I think its all a load of media spin. This is the best Irish backrow that I can remember.

O'Briens work rate is off the chart and we simply can't have him, Ferris and Heaslip all maurauding around the place at the same time.

+1

dublin_dave wrote:exactly notch. this back row issue is overstated due to our back play being so poor over the last 18 months and our go to method of attack being our back row running over people. to be a succesful team you do not need 3 tackle breaking back rows

as you say a few years back wallace used to do damage closer in ferris would smash rucks and heaslip carried well in wider channels

its not as if warburton,lydiate make massive yards ball in hand for wales and they are not doing too badly.

+1

Those last 3 posts....I've been waiting for them since the RWC. Can't say it better than those 3 combined together

+1

Sorry, didnt want to feel left out

eirebilly wrote:+1

Sorry, didnt want to feel left out

Chunky Norwich wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:, Nicolas Mas

I can't wait for Mas v Healy

eirebilly wrote:Personally i would drop SOB to the bench and give POM the 7 to see how he goes. SOB would be one hell of an impact sub for Heaslip, Ferris or POM during any stage of the game.

I would also give Reddan a start as he is quicker around the rucks, just look at what Scotland did to the French

Would OMahoney make such a big difference. He's not a classic 7 himself. We don't really have one so maybe we should just make the most of what we have. POM off the bench can make quite an impact too.

Definitely would have Reddan start every match have said it all along. Kidney however, is kidney and he likes his big strong scrum halves. Murray looks the real deal he does most things well just not as well as OR. So why start him?

I know that leinster but i do think that he would be very effective.

I thought you were just saying it to keep the muster lads happy.

What notch says was spot on. We did moan back then that we should use ferris more as a carrier but then again we had Wally at that stage. I wouldn't mind seeing O'Mahoney start but I think a better balance might be achieved with ferris going back to hitting every ruck and doing that dog work and letting sob roam a bit.

I am a Munster lad leinster

Lets get this straight first - Ireland do not have any "natural" 7s. Not any good ones anyway. David Wallace is the best we have, but he is hardly a "natural" 7. He is an irish 7 though, and he worked perfectly and at the time of his injury he was in the form of his life. I wouldn't have dropped him for any "natural" 7. Our best balance was Ferris, Wallace and Heaslip. I also don't think this was because Ferris did all the donkey work - it was a shared role between all three. Ferris made more carries then than he does now honestly. Heaslip and Wallace both did a ton of work also. In general our entire pack just clicked back then.

Also, all this talk about swapping out SOB for Henry or POM or whoever is nonsense. That isn't the problem and they won't solve anything. They won't solve the balance issue. In terms of who is on form most, I would pick Henry, but not because he is any more of a breakdown specialist than the rest of them. He is just in the form of his life. But if it is to simply find a more adequate openside, you are going to be disappointed with the results.

Also, what Ireland are lacking atm is intensity. For whatever reason.

dublin_dave wrote:
He was always bashing eddie but heralds deccie in every article. Of course both have their stregnths and weaknesses but correct me if im wrong Eddies win % was higher.

Yea, eddie used to like to keep the win percentages up a bit by playing romania frequently and going on tours to Japan a lot.

Ireland play well when they play with aggression. It was missing v Wales until Ferris did a great tackle at the end which was farcically penalised. We did clear out rucks a little better second half v Italy but would love to see some controlled aggression v France and some fast ball for our backs. Hopefully Murray got the memo and doesn't wait to be counter rucked by TD and co.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Lets get this straight first - Ireland do not have any "natural" 7s. Not any good ones anyway. David Wallace is the best we have, but he is hardly a "natural" 7. He is an irish 7 though, and he worked perfectly and at the time of his injury he was in the form of his life. I wouldn't have dropped him for any "natural" 7. Our best balance was Ferris, Wallace and Heaslip. I also don't think this was because Ferris did all the donkey work - it was a shared role between all three. Ferris made more carries then than he does now honestly. Heaslip and Wallace both did a ton of work also. In general our entire pack just clicked back then.

Also, all this talk about swapping out SOB for Henry or POM or whoever is nonsense. That isn't the problem and they won't solve anything. They won't solve the balance issue. In terms of who is on form most, I would pick Henry, but not because he is any more of a breakdown specialist than the rest of them. He is just in the form of his life. But if it is to simply find a more adequate openside, you are going to be disappointed with the results.

Rory you are wrong there mate. Ferris was a rarely used as a carrier in 09. Heaslip had a lot more license to roam back then. The amount of times this season ferris stood on or about the 13 channel annoys me. I think it can be done on occasion but not as often as I seem to notice. The only thing I think Henry offers over O'brien is that he has been excellent at slowing down opposition ball. In the HEC he has had a knack of hanging on just the right amount of time in the tackle or got in to disrupt. O'Mahoney has done similar but I haven't seen as much of him.

In order to generate quick ball we need to clear out rucks whilst committing the fewest men to them. I felt that when we did do that on Saturday we were hamstrung by murrays indecision as well.

Medards broken his life or something and is out now.

Medard has to have an operation i heard and could be out for up to 9 months...

Womans name...
9 month injury.....
hmmmm

Duistetoir looked guilty when helping him off the field on Sunday

I suspect Bonnaire whos just announced his retirement....presumably to stay at home and look after the kid whilst Maxine goes back to work. How very modern.

Best wishes to the happy couple.

I was annoyed at the time, but now I'm pretty glad theres a match this week! Every year I hate it when the break week comes around, but at least this year we have some 6N rugby every weekend. It's going to be a cracker!

clivemcl wrote:I was annoyed at the time, but now I'm pretty glad theres a match this week! Every year I hate it when the break week comes around, but at least this year we have some 6N rugby every weekend. It's going to be a cracker!

+1.