Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

by Diggers Tue 24 Apr 2012, 9:32 am

First topic message reminder :

I don't mind Paul Walsh at all, there are at least another 5 on the Sky Soccer Saturday that are way worse. Thompson is annoying , Nicolas just as bad, Merson is funny in an are you simple kind of way. George Best used to be worst of the lot.
I always found Graham Taylor's commentary annoying , that was his voice more than anything though.
In athletics Colin Jackson is very poor as is Denise Lewis.

by McLaren Mon 04 Jun 2012, 10:29 pm

"Blimey I have been invited to 8 of them. Maybe I shouldnt be so opinionated or it could have been more.. Whats your excuse?"

I really am an ass hole, but I can pretty much live with it.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 04 Jun 2012, 10:44 pm

Diggers wrote:What does Carricks retired, big of him, even mean ? Is he not allowed to retire, which by the way he did on a very low key and unfussy way ?

Yes, he's allowed to retire. Who cares tbh? I read several reports which said he's not willing to be a reserve for the Euros even if asked. Knob.

McLaren wrote:I guess you are not a man utd man?

What does that have to do with anything? Ferdinand's an arse. End of.

kwinigolfer wrote:...Ferdinand is only not in the squad because Terry called his brother a blankblank...

Says who? I have no doubt Terry is an arse as well but he denies being racist to Ferdinand jr. so who are we to say he's lying? I cannot stand this ridiculous behaviour re. racism in football. I wouldn't trust players not to try and get another player into trouble by claiming they'd been racist in the same way they think nothing of trying to get a fellow pro sent off by diving/being shot from row Z.
If Ferdinand can't be trusted and professional to get on with Terry and Terry's in the squad then Ferdinand isn't going. End of.

Diggers wrote:I can honestly say I don't know a single person who has gone up to someone and called them a black so and so, not one.

Oh come on. You can't think of a single person...when you were at school? I don't believe you.

by Diggers Tue 05 Jun 2012, 9:13 pm

So now apparently Hodgson says the door is still open for Ferdinand in the future??? So basically when Terry actually gets done for racist abuse and there is no way he can make the squad then it's OK for Ferdinand to cone back as the experienced centre half.
Utter joke.

by McLaren Tue 05 Jun 2012, 10:28 pm

Navy

I just notice you dont often have much good to say for man utd or their players.

But if you really think Rio is out for footballing reasons then I really do question your self appointed status as board know it all.

by super_realist Tue 05 Jun 2012, 10:33 pm

Who cares who England have in defence or anywhere else. They stink every tournament out and are simply there to make up the numbers. Thank heavens that no one is going overboard about their chances this year. A welcome sense of realism has come over the nation. Only about 40 years too late.

by kwinigolfer Tue 05 Jun 2012, 10:33 pm

nbs,
My understanding was that Hodgson determined he couldn't take both Terry and Ferdinand and thus took one and obviously not the other. If he was going to leave him out for purely footballing reasons then why go to the trouble of mentioning him in the first place?

At the end of the day, I blame the judicial system more than anything else - if the FA applied pressure on the timing of Terry being up before the beak, then shame on the FA who clearly couldn't run a p1ss up in the proverbial.

by lorus59 Wed 06 Jun 2012, 4:47 am

super_realist wrote:Who cares who England have in defence or anywhere else. They stink every tournament out and are simply there to make up the numbers. Thank heavens that no one is going overboard about their chances this year. A welcome sense of realism has come over the nation. Only about 40 years too late.

I think you should check out the posts made by Duty281 on the Euro 2012 thread. He says England WILL (not can) win it.

by Diggers Wed 06 Jun 2012, 9:50 am

super_realist wrote:Who cares who England have in defence or anywhere else. They stink every tournament out and are simply there to make up the numbers. Thank heavens that no one is going overboard about their chances this year. A welcome sense of realism has come over the nation. Only about 40 years too late.

So why are you bothering posting or raqding on a comments that are about the England squad ? Nobody on here is saying they are going to win but it doesnt mean we cant have a debate about howt he squad is made up.
I was looking at the squads today for the whole competition and you can pick holes in most of them, even Spain arent exactly bursting with world class strikers. Hollands defence is pretty poor, Italy are all over the shop. Im not saying this in the sense that we will win it, I cant see us creating enough chances, but purely that I dont think the standard is that great bar Spain and I think they may be on the slide

by raycastleunited Wed 06 Jun 2012, 11:50 am

Totally agree with Diggers on this one.

Clearly, in Hodgson's mind it was an either / or choice of Terry over Ferdinand, and sadly I think he has made the wrong choice.

Ferdinand, although injury prone and perhaps on the decline, remains the best centre half England have. He reads the game better than anyone, makes fewer mistakes, and retains possession. He managed to play 38 games in the season just finished and is currently fit. I can only assume Hodgson thought he might sustain an injury or agravate an existing condition in the warm up games / training camp and mess up his plans.

Terry on the other hand, has made a number of errors this season, clearly has lost pace, and frequently seems to slip over (poor anticipation, being caught out of position, lack of agility, poor balance?). He is also a complete scumbag who should be nowhere near the squad and is a divisive and loathsome figure. Terry seems to be popular for his commitment (being compared to a bandaged Butcher) but having a great attitude doesn't help you win tournaments. Look at Steven Gerrard, all action hero charging around the premiership, put him in an international tournament and he looks like a headless chicken the way he continually gives the ball away against technically superior teams who retain possession and run rings around him.

by hend085 Wed 06 Jun 2012, 12:07 pm

"technically superior teams". i reckon only a handful of teams in the euros would be good enough for top half of the premiership

by McLaren Wed 06 Jun 2012, 12:14 pm

Ray

Spot on.

And I am glad to see someone else shares my opinion of Stevie-G. I just dont rate his ability to keep the ball and give other players a chance to join the attack. Before you know it he has pinged it 40 yards to a player miles away from anyone else, that player is isolated and the attack is over.

by Fader Wed 06 Jun 2012, 12:25 pm

For many years I've thought Gerrard overrated and plays to many hollywood balls. International football isn't and shouldn't be about a player that can pull off a 40 yard pass once in every forty attempts like Gerrard. Its about possession and keeping the ball moving and Stevie G as the fans like to call him simply doesn't do that.

I'm not a huge fan of Carricks but I do think Paul Scholes could have done a good job at the Euros pulling the strings much like Pirlo does for italy, and Xavi does for spain.

All the talk of England's defence is the headlines but I think the Central midfield area remains our weakness. Gerrard will insist on long balls as he often or should I say always does, Parker for me isn't the player everyone says he is. Internationally he gives away to many pointless free kicks and is often out of position as seen in friendlies where Gerrard had to cover for him, and to be out of position as a holding player is awful. Then there's the back up, Henderson not good enough, Milner imo should be ahead of Parker in the running as he's more functional with the ball. But after that were empty in the middle.

I like the idea of Ashley Young playing a proper number 10 role roaming around but who do you play behind him that's the worry

by Diggers Wed 06 Jun 2012, 12:56 pm

I think Gerrard gets a bit of a hard time. He is ultimately an attacking midfielder so he isnt going to play the short pass all the time, its his job to make things happen.
England have to try to be dynamic, I dont think we should revert to trying to play keepball, we dont have the players for it so we wont have loads of possession but we do have to try and be energetic when we attack and get players forward.
I honestly cant see how Gerrard cant be in the side right now, there just arent any alternatives.

by McLaren Wed 06 Jun 2012, 1:06 pm

"I honestly cant see how Gerrard cant be in the side right now, there just arent any alternatives."

Sadly this is true.

I still think carrick should have been in the squad, i know he packed it in but someone could have persuaded him surely?

by Diggers Wed 06 Jun 2012, 1:12 pm

But Carrick isnt an alternative to Gerrard anyway Mac, he is a completely different style of player. We need to have an attacking midfielder in the side who can create something. Carrick for all his strengths doesnt really get in the opponents half.
In the last game against Belguim Gerrard was in their box and made a lovely little shimmy to go past their right back and get a cross in, he will also get a few shots in during a game. His goal return for England is pretty good and we will need him to weigh in with a couple.

by kwinigolfer Wed 06 Jun 2012, 1:37 pm

Trouble is we're depending on midfielders who are only half-fit, Gerrard and Parker, or can't make their club team, Milner.

Parker not half the player now he was for the first half of the year, slower and now seems hobbled in every game. I'm a big Gerrard fan but when was the last time he was running on all cylinders?

At least until Rooney's back, I'd play Baines on the left-side of midfield, the best passer (apart from Rooney) and crosser of a ball in the England squad and a dead-ball threat including corner-kick delivery.

by McLaren Wed 06 Jun 2012, 1:42 pm

So how about;

Jones - Terry - lescott - cole

Walcott - chamberlian - parker - Bains

Young

Ronney

by Diggers Wed 06 Jun 2012, 2:07 pm

I really dont think our wide options are bad, sorry dont really get the Baines option, doesnt wpork for me.
Chamberlain has shown a bit of promise out wide out thats all it is so far, you cant suddenly expect him to play as the focal central midfielder surely ?

by dynamark Wed 06 Jun 2012, 2:28 pm

Interesting stuff gents.I think from the way Hodgson has set up so far he is looking for the back 8(2 x 4|) to be very tight together to make it easier to retrieve possesion and stifle the attacks.Up and down as a unit and all that.
To my mind Ferdinand would not fit too well into that he always likes to stand back and recieve the ball with plenty of time and space then the ball forward is often ineffective.Couldnt really play the both of them or we would be dropping too deep pulling midfield back to collect ,square balls across the back and then the hollywood pass.
Id take a bunch of 1 nil wins over the next month

by McLaren Wed 06 Jun 2012, 2:35 pm

Diggers

I was just trying to come up with anything that means Gerrard can take a seat on the bench.

by Diggers Wed 06 Jun 2012, 2:40 pm

Gerrard can be frustrating but I think he could have a really good tournament and suprise al ot of people. Hope so anyway.

by 4putt Wed 06 Jun 2012, 2:43 pm

I think this article by Martin Samuel sums up very well why the drug cheating Ferdinand should not be going.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2155062/It-exactly-football-reasons-Rio-Ferdinand-Euro-2012-Martin-Samuel.html

by Diggers Wed 06 Jun 2012, 2:50 pm

4putt wrote:I think this article by Martin Samuel sums up very well why the drug cheating Ferdinand should not be going.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2155062/It-exactly-football-reasons-Rio-Ferdinand-Euro-2012-Martin-Samuel.html

Daily Mail journalist sides with racist shock. Im more suprised he hasnt advocated deporting Ferdinand.

by 4putt Wed 06 Jun 2012, 3:12 pm

Diggers wrote:
4putt wrote:I think this article by Martin Samuel sums up very well why the drug cheating Ferdinand should not be going.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2155062/It-exactly-football-reasons-Rio-Ferdinand-Euro-2012-Martin-Samuel.html

Daily Mail journalist sides with racist shock. Im more suprised he hasnt advocated deporting Ferdinand.

The article sides with Hodgson. Are you saying he's a racist?.

by Diggers Wed 06 Jun 2012, 3:14 pm

It sides with Terry by siding with Hodgson. Im saying the Mail is racist. Hodgson has just made a very poor decision.

by 4putt Wed 06 Jun 2012, 3:28 pm

Of course your entitled to your opinion.
However, I reckon Hodgson has more footballing knowledge than you so with respect, your talking out of your a*se.

by Diggers Wed 06 Jun 2012, 3:30 pm

If its about football then... with respect.... if you think Kelly is a better player than Ferdinand you are an utter moron.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 06 Jun 2012, 10:21 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy

I just notice you dont often have much good to say for man utd or their players.

But if you really think Rio is out for footballing reasons then I really do question your self appointed status as board know it all.

I couldn't give a 4X why Rio isn't in the squad. He's not in it and I'm sure he knows why but still feels the need to undermine the squad. Well done, very professional.
As for being the board know-it-all, if you say so Mac. Bit better than being the board know-nothing eh? In actual fact, I think a lot of Man Utd players are extremely good. I even think Ferdinand was excellent but his (past) excellence has little to do with what I think about they way he's acting having been omitted from this squad.

4putt wrote:I think this article by Martin Samuel sums up very well why the drug cheating Ferdinand should not be going.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2155062/It-exactly-football-reasons-Rio-Ferdinand-Euro-2012-Martin-Samuel.html

Don't like the Mail but can't see an issue with this article Diggers. Seems pretty well balanced even if you don't agree with the thesis.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 06 Jun 2012, 11:23 pm

Oh STFU FFS!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/06/sol-campbell-rio-ferdinand-england

by McLaren Wed 06 Jun 2012, 11:51 pm

Navy

I have no idea what STFU FFS means but I think Sol has nailed the issue and is spot on in his piece. It is also great to see him standing up to the idiocy of the FA.

by Fader Thu 07 Jun 2012, 7:00 am

Not a fan of any article that appears in the Guardian, probably because I worked for the Telegraph for a number of years. Nor a fan of Sol Campbell, but rather than digging out the FA isn't it time everyone got behind England and started supporting them considering their tournament starts Monday.

Its bad enough my other nation are having in fighting, the joys of having half english and half italian parentage. As long as Mario Baruwah Balotelli isn't near the Azzuri starting XI I'll be happy, mind its going to be difficult for me as we get to the latter stages of the tournament as I'm off to a family wedding. In my mothers home town in italy during the semi final stages, mind you I do love visiting Florence especially when La Viola are playing, shame they won't be now.

I want England to go as far as they can, if they get to the Semi's and Terry et al play well who will question Roys footballing decisions err no-one.

by I'm never wrong Thu 07 Jun 2012, 8:53 am

McLaren wrote:Navy

I have no idea what STFU FFS means but I think Sol has nailed the issue and is spot on in his piece. It is also great to see him standing up to the idiocy of the FA.

For, Shut, The, Sake, Up and a word beginning with F. Re-arrange.

by kwinigolfer Thu 07 Jun 2012, 9:32 am

Load of cobblers from Campbell. Any merit in anything he says completely undermined by his claims he should've been in S.Africa two years ago. Good Lord!

Time to move on.

by McLaren Thu 07 Jun 2012, 9:51 am

In what way is it cobblers (other than SA selection) or in what way should he shut up FFS?

He is a black player who suspects the FA has made a decision based on race, in that context he was pretty well balanced about it, dont you think?

by Diggers Thu 07 Jun 2012, 9:52 am

An awful lot of common sense and honesty in Campbells piece. He has the whole situation spot on as far as Im concerned.
If people move on and let it go then all they are doing is letting the FA get away with lying through their teeth claiming its for football reasons when only a complete numpty would believe that, though there are more of those about than I would have thought possible which is in itself pretty frightening.
I still want England to win the Euros, not that its very likely, but there wont be any true joy in it for me if Terry is in the side, no way can I find anyway to cheer for that oxygen thief.

by kwinigolfer Thu 07 Jun 2012, 10:06 am

Mac,
Only because he's made it all about Sol and that completely destroys any objectivity in my mind.
Posted my views on the Rio situation earlier, agree almost word for word with Diggers, but to somehow link the two is ridiculous.
Nothing worse than former players, regardless of sport, with inflated ideas of their own abilities - McEnroe's the older I get the better I was mentality.
Shoddy journalism from the Grauniad.

by Diggers Thu 07 Jun 2012, 10:16 am

Not totally sure that fair Kwini. I do agree I wouldnt have taken Campbell to the last world cup but I do remember him being mooted at the time.
We either believe him that he was sounded out by the FA for possible selection or we think he is lying. I cant really see what he would gain from lying about it personally.
That said the two situations are still very different. However the more I think about this subject, the more I genuinely believe that this selection is the single biggest mistake that I can ever remember any England manager making. Unfortunately Hodgson has a reputation as a yes man and I believe that the FA were heavily involved in the decision to take Terry.
Whether you like him or not Ferdinand has been a role model for a lot of black kids and he does a lot of work he gets no credit for in trying to mentor them. What are they going to think now when its clear he has been treated in this way ?

by kwinigolfer Thu 07 Jun 2012, 10:19 am

See Defoe's returned home following father's death, but will return.
Strikeforce ever more threadbare.

Digs,
Completely agree about Ferdinand - shameful treatment etc. Complete c0ck-up by FA.

by raycastleunited Thu 07 Jun 2012, 3:55 pm

Some good points from Sol Campbell, very valid observations, but totally ruined by his claim that he should have been in 2010 squad.

Digs, let's say it's the biggest mistake made by an England manager in the last 18 years. My memory stretches back to the days of Graham Taylor and England teams featuring Brian Deane, Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas, Andy Gray (the Palace player not the sexist analyst), Stuart Ripley, Andy Sinton, all the while Le Tissier was continually overlooked. I could probably produce a whole squad of Graham Taylor's favourite vegetables who somehow played for England.

by Diggers Thu 07 Jun 2012, 4:04 pm

Ray, so does my memory, even further sadly. They were indeed silly choices but at least they were made for footballing reasons, even though they were incredibly poor ones (though I had a soft spot for a few of those players you mentioned)..this just stinks of politics and dishonesty. The sad thing is that in Hodgson although we werent getting a brilliant coach we were meant to get the good guy, as far as Im concerned he has let himself down really either by being the FA's Cat or making the decision himself. Either way it reflects badly on him.

by raycastleunited Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:12 pm

Diggers wrote:Ray, so does my memory, even further sadly. They were indeed silly choices but at least they were made for footballing reasons, even though they were incredibly poor ones (though I had a soft spot for a few of those players you mentioned)..this just stinks of politics and dishonesty. The sad thing is that in Hodgson although we werent getting a brilliant coach we were meant to get the good guy, as far as Im concerned he has let himself down really either by being the FA's Cat or making the decision himself. Either way it reflects badly on him.

Agreed

by mystiroakey Thu 07 Jun 2012, 5:55 pm

Ok i am gonna put another take on this situation.

It might be well out of left field but here goes. Maybe Rio didnt get picked because of the race issues surronding this event and felt he could have been a target or could have walked of the pitch or whatever , etc, etc. Due to him being very heightened on the subject at present. I mean in his present mentality- would he take any abuse from moronic fans..

I am not condoing them not picking him under that circumstance- just throwing another suggestion out there..

by oldparwin Thu 07 Jun 2012, 8:56 pm

Let's put in under a different light, was it Rio who "forgot" to give a urine sample for drugs testing, after a match,??? at the time there were big question marks, about him missing the test.

by Fader Fri 08 Jun 2012, 6:44 am

Ok so now time to discuss some important observations I've been making whilst watching Sky Sports News this morning.

1. Lewis Hamilton has the most pointless face fuzz I've ever seen on a sportsman.

2. Milan Baros is still playing top level football! Who for and wasn't he past it when liverpool sold him

3. England base in Krakow yet playing games in Donetsk, so that's down time in Poland then travel roughly couple hundred miles every game to Ukraine! (Not sure of that distance just a guess)isn't that urine poor planning from FA & former manager Capello!

4.The wet weather must be here to stay as they have begun mentioning Wimbledon!

by princedracula Fri 08 Jun 2012, 7:08 am

Fader wrote:3. England base in Krakow yet playing games in Donetsk, so that's down time in Poland then travel roughly couple hundred miles every game to Ukraine! (Not sure of that distance just a guess)isn't that urine poor planning from FA & former manager Capello!

That's a bit understated... the distance between Krakow and Donetsk is practically the same with the distance between London and Krakow (~800-900 miles) and only a bit shorter than Dublin to Poznan. So based on that 'logic' the Irish team could've based themselves... at home. Wink

by Fader Fri 08 Jun 2012, 7:51 am

Glad you cleared that up PD, I did initially write in 500 miles but changed it as was unsure.

Just shows a man sausage up by the FA in preparation yet again. May as well commute from london!

by McLaren Fri 08 Jun 2012, 5:14 pm

Is it just me or do Poland actually look ok?

by McLaren Fri 08 Jun 2012, 7:09 pm

Nope, just me. That was pretty poor.

by Fader Fri 08 Jun 2012, 9:01 pm

To move away from football for a moment but on the theme of selection issues, one of the only things I would have watched at the Olympics would have been the Tae Kwondo, but now I will not watch a moment.

British Olympic Association & GB Taekwondo have confirmed World No.59 Lutalo Muhammad will compete in Olympics instead of World No.1 Aaron Cook, who is leagues beyond any other competitor right now as they want a more ethnically diverse team. Imo creed should be irrelevant as only the best should be picked to compete and the worlds best is being left out so the BOA can be politically correct,

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 08 Jun 2012, 10:57 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy

I have no idea what STFU FFS means but I think Sol has nailed the issue and is spot on in his piece. It is also great to see him standing up to the idiocy of the FA.

Nailed it, my arse. He's being a rent-a-quote idiot who is so dumb (even worse as an ex-International) he can't see that this should be aired/sorted out/whatever after the tournament. How can I make this simpler? Terry hasn't been proven to have said anything as yet so as I mentioned earlier, it's about time these people put a sock in it until it's been proven. As Martin Whatever in the Guardirad suggested, maybe Hodgson has good reason to think Ferdinand can't be professional enough and doesn't want any excessive rubbish in the squad? If that's not a "footballing reason", I'm the Pope.

Fader wrote:To move away from football for a moment but on the theme of selection issues, one of the only things I would have watched at the Olympics would have been the Tae Kwondo, but now I will not watch a moment.

British Olympic Association & GB Taekwondo have confirmed World No.59 Lutalo Muhammad will compete in Olympics instead of World No.1 Aaron Cook, who is leagues beyond any other competitor right now as they want a more ethnically diverse team. Imo creed should be irrelevant as only the best should be picked to compete and the worlds best is being left out so the BOA can be politically correct.

I'm 100% with you. On the face of it (and I can't see any other way to take it), this is a farce. I like the Taekwondo but I have a sneaking wish to see Muhammad get KO'd, which is sad as it's nothing to do with him.

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