Irish Summer Tour Squad

First topic message reminder :

RELAND SUMMER TOUR SQUAD (New Zealand 2012):

Backs (13):

Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
AN Other

Forwards (16):

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster) *
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
AN Other
AN Other
AN Other

I am close to the waterline. Yeah!

Rava wrote:
The message is clear: why kick the ball when you have the best running-and-passing fly half in Europe? And what the stats don’t tell you is how much flatter to the gainline Sexton stands for Leinster.

Yup I've been saying that one for yonks. Sexton stands about 5m behind the gainline for Ireland but he's right on it for Leinster.

Good morning folks.

On the New Zeaalnd TAB, head to head they are offering;
New Zealand .....$1.10.
Ireland............... $6.00

This is the first test at Eden Park, Ireland werent too unhappy with their last game there.

Unfortunately new Zealand never lose there either. Though the first test will be our best chance I think.

If we win this series I'll be fuggin delighted because it would be impossible to win it playing puke rugby, we've never been good enough playing that style to beat anyone decent let alone NZ so if we do win we will have to at well. And I'd be over the moon if we start playing well. I want us to succeed, some people seem to think that defending Kidney is the "right" thing to do, but my loyalty lies with the team not the coach, I want Ireland to play to thier potential and we have done that in a long time under kidney. Nothing against him personally at all.

What I want to know is why are O'Driscoll, Best, O'Connell, Sexton, Ferris, Kearney etc not sitting down with Kidney and saying "Declan, we aren't happy with the direction the team is going and here is why".

I know from talking to former players and hearing through the grapevine that Kidney is quite open to change and takes the advice of others on board.

red_stag wrote:What I want to know is why are O'Driscoll, Best, O'Connell, Sexton, Ferris, Kearney etc not sitting down with Kidney and saying "Declan, we aren't happy with the direction the team is going and here is why".

I know from talking to former players and hearing through the grapevine that Kidney is quite open to change and takes the advice of others on board.

Maybe behind the scenes they already are...or indeed have been? They're not about to come out in public and admit any crisis talks though even if they were happening. That's why I sometimes smile when I hear people defend what is happening to this Irish team by saying listen to the players, they don't seem to be complaining in pre and post match interviews. Surprise surprise on that one. - What is said in the changing rooms stays in the changing rooms - isn't that the old adage I hear repeated often when maybe O'Gara blurts out a few home truths that in the eyes of the purists he shouldn't.

Now there's a man who might come clean if you tackled him into a corner and asked him to honestly say just what is the overall feeling amongst International players about the game they are playing and the results being dished out by it. That might be a very interesting truth or dare interview

Oh no of course they wouldnt and shouldnt say anything close to that publically. I had (probably foolishly) hoped that if it had been raised it would have been addressed.

red_stag wrote:Oh no of course they wouldnt and shouldnt say anything close to that publically. I had (probably foolishly) hoped that if it had been raised it would have been addressed.

I know Kidney is the kind of character that would listen. I'm sure he would, especially to some of the players you mentioned. They've been down the road almost as long as him and have played at the coalface...he'd value and I'm sure he does value their input.

But I really think that it is only after this 6N AND especially the English game that the full impact of just how bad a shape Ireland are in came home to roost on him. Didn't he say something about latent weaknesses finally being found out or words to that effect. I think he felt that overall he was doing a good job of disguising weaknesses and hoping that he'd have solutions found before they were exposed. But the porblem is that I think most of the rest of us realised the weaknesses were already being preyed on well in advance of this year's 6N. I don't really think Kidney got the message on that one until this year. And if the players were whispering in his ear that things weren't right, perhaps he listened but didn't feel the urgency as much as them.

The only good thing is that I really do think he knows now that systems and playing tactics have to change dramatically - plus, and finally, he must find a way to once and for all solve the infuriating inconsistency both in perfomance levels And basic skills. Let's hope that with his new found realisation that things aren't grand that he'll have been working on some solutions.

Lets hope so Fly.

Here is another one - is it time for a new captain?

I think either Sexton or Kearney would make excellent captains of Ireland.

Of those two I think Sexton more than Kearney. Sexton is a brute for shouting and regaling and whining and grimacing. Now that's not necessarily the qualities of a great captain, indeed some players might feel like telling a Captain like that to **** off... but it's not so much the words and grimaces and shouts as what they hint at...and they hint at complete immersion in the game, complete focus on creating conditions within the team to win, the absolute dogged passion to drag his team (kicking and screaming at them if need be)to get their emotions into the game, keep concentration and sustain the passion.

Having said that - now that Heaslip is off the Twitter pages ( or at least I hope he still is, haven't checked - don't DO twitter ) but now that he seems to have regained concentration on rugby on the field rather than off it...he looked the real deal for Captain too towards the end of the HC final. When O'Driscoll was allowing himself to smile at the victory about to come, Heaslip was possessed and demanding continued concentration from his troops - he wanted to continue to be ruthless to the end. A beautiful quality in a player.

red_stag wrote:Oh no of course they wouldnt and shouldnt say anything close to that publically. I had (probably foolishly) hoped that if it had been raised it would have been addressed.

You missed Gaffney getting the bullet then

There was a review at Christmas in Carton. Reports back were that the squad were very happy with the management set-up, really liked how they were treated, etc., but wanted to look at changing the attack coachig (which was done).

Looks like all those leaders are just 'yes' men which doesn't really help Ireland to win much, though except for the England game (caused by Ross going off and England targetting the scrum), Ireland weren't as bad as made out in the 6Ns. Losing the Welsh game was more Welsh luck than anything else.

Not a thing wrong with keeping Rory Best as captain although its interesting BOD has been named tour captain. Time for the younger guys when BOD, ROG, POC and Best have moved on.

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:Oh no of course they wouldnt and shouldnt say anything close to that publically. I had (probably foolishly) hoped that if it had been raised it would have been addressed.

You missed Gaffney getting the bullet then

There was a review at Christmas in Carton. Reports back were that the squad were very happy with the management set-up, really liked how they were treated, etc., but wanted to look at changing the attack coachig (which was done).

Looks like all those leaders are just 'yes' men which doesn't really help Ireland to win much, though except for the England game (caused by Ross going off and England targetting the scrum), Ireland weren't as bad as made out in the 6Ns. Losing the Welsh game was more Welsh luck than anything else.

Sin é if you seriously and genuinely think that overall Ireland are playing anything close to their true potential both in aggression, pace, and skill levels (holding onto balls, being able to catch simple passes, following through with sufficient support for players who seek and win ball) then I really don't know what decade your mind is in - because overall (give or take the one or two sizzlers the team put in each year) it is generally operating well below top level International standard - and our consistent world ranking of 8th proves it. The path to improvement might come if many of us get our head out of the sand on what defines the word quality.

red_stag wrote:Lets hope so Fly.

Here is another one - is it time for a new captain?

I think either Sexton or Kearney would make excellent captains of Ireland.

If things are as bad as you like to make out then, why are they not showing leadership NOW when its needed?

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:Oh no of course they wouldnt and shouldnt say anything close to that publically. I had (probably foolishly) hoped that if it had been raised it would have been addressed.

You missed Gaffney getting the bullet then

There was a review at Christmas in Carton. Reports back were that the squad were very happy with the management set-up, really liked how they were treated, etc., but wanted to look at changing the attack coachig (which was done).

Looks like all those leaders are just 'yes' men which doesn't really help Ireland to win much, though except for the England game (caused by Ross going off and England targetting the scrum), Ireland weren't as bad as made out in the 6Ns. Losing the Welsh game was more Welsh luck than anything else.

Sin é if you seriously and genuinely think that overall Ireland are playing anything close to their true potential both in aggression, pace, and skill levels (holding onto balls, being able to catch simple passes, following through with sufficient support for players who seek and win ball) then I really don't know what decade your mind is in - because overall (give or take the one or two sizzlers the team put in each year) it is generally operating well below top level International standard - and our consistent world ranking of 8th proves it. The path to improvement might come if many of us get our head out of the sand on what defines the word quality.

So its Kidney's fault that D'Arcy keeps dropping balls? Surely its his skill coach in Leinster who should be doing that kind of work. Then you take into account that England were knocking on deliberately so that they could scrum a bit more!

In fairness, there is nothing much between those ranked 4-8 (6Ns teams).

Added to that, I bet if Ireland (& Wales) etc. were playing in the Tri-Nations, they too would get the odd win against NZ.

Sin é, Gaffney has not been replaced. We were told that they were looking for a backs coach and none has appeared for the 6 Nations and now again for the Summer Internationals.

SecretFly wrote: When O'Driscoll was allowing himself to smile at the victory about to come, Heaslip was possessed and demanding continued concentration from his troops - he wanted to continue to be ruthless to the end. A beautiful quality in a player.

Don't think Brad Thorn was too impressed with his regaling. He turned his back on him.

Leinster has an Irish test loosie with a reputation among his team-mates for being way too opinionated, especially during training.

The story goes that Brad Thorn had been there for only two weeks when at training one night the loosie started having too much to say again.

Thorn apparently withdrew that gnarled head of his from out of a scrum and in that gravelly voice nobody can imitate: "Save the energy for the scrum mate. I can't even feel any weight from you. Less talk, more pushing mate!"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/6955685/All-Blacks-will-crush-misplaced-Irish-confidence

red_stag wrote:Sin é, Gaffney has not been replaced. We were told that they were looking for a backs coach and none has appeared for the 6 Nations and now again for the Summer Internationals.

We were told that a new coach wouldn't have enough time with the players to make an impression (coming in a week before the 6Ns).

Kiss did a decent job, so for all we know the players want him to remain as backs coach.

(And just in case you might think the load is too much, Schmidt is Leinster Head Coach, Backs, Attack and Defence coach).

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:Oh no of course they wouldnt and shouldnt say anything close to that publically. I had (probably foolishly) hoped that if it had been raised it would have been addressed.

You missed Gaffney getting the bullet then

There was a review at Christmas in Carton. Reports back were that the squad were very happy with the management set-up, really liked how they were treated, etc., but wanted to look at changing the attack coachig (which was done).

Looks like all those leaders are just 'yes' men which doesn't really help Ireland to win much, though except for the England game (caused by Ross going off and England targetting the scrum), Ireland weren't as bad as made out in the 6Ns. Losing the Welsh game was more Welsh luck than anything else.

Sin é if you seriously and genuinely think that overall Ireland are playing anything close to their true potential both in aggression, pace, and skill levels (holding onto balls, being able to catch simple passes, following through with sufficient support for players who seek and win ball) then I really don't know what decade your mind is in - because overall (give or take the one or two sizzlers the team put in each year) it is generally operating well below top level International standard - and our consistent world ranking of 8th proves it. The path to improvement might come if many of us get our head out of the sand on what defines the word quality.

So its Kidney's fault that D'Arcy keeps dropping balls? Surely its his skill coach in Leinster who should be doing that kind of work. Then you take into account that England were knocking on deliberately so that they could scrum a bit more!

In fairness, there is nothing much between those ranked 4-8 (6Ns teams).

You're a gramophone record now, Sin é...I'm tiring of the gramophone of everything is rosey, nothing wrong with Ireland, nothing wrong with the head coach or his fellow coaches, we're doing ok _____________ but *gasp* WAIT!!!!!

Everything is damn well not rosey! 'Cause Sexton is dirty and useless, Heaslip is rubbish, D'arcy knocks on, O'Driscoll is past it, Ross is lard, O'Brien has been found out, Kearney hasn't the skill to step up to International level, Redden isn't physical enough, ...I've missed a few other Leinster players but you get the deal. Tiring Sin é. To paraphrase you: "It's not wrong.... but here's the reasons it is wrong".

Is It Wrong Or Isn't It? You can't have it both ways. That's not going to work anymore. Is it wrong or isn't it? Answer that one first and then we can have a discussion. If things are still ok, if we're still good enough, if kidney is doing a fine job, if Wales hit lucky - then there is also nothing wrong with all the players you and DOD serially list off as the culprits for 'Bad Ireland' v Kidney's 'Good Ireland'.

No wonder the players and management are confused. Truth is you're no more happy with where Ireland are than I am...I'm just waiting for you to admit that one without a "BUT".

All I know Sin é is that we are failing miserably.

We have lost to Wales three times in a row
We just got annihilated by England
We choked against France and haven't beaten them in our last five meetings

It seems that big wins over Scotland and Italy are doing enough to convince people that all is ok.

We are capable of better. We are not doing better. Kidney is IMO not delivering the results and playing a very unambitious style of rugby completely under utilising the players available.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote: When O'Driscoll was allowing himself to smile at the victory about to come, Heaslip was possessed and demanding continued concentration from his troops - he wanted to continue to be ruthless to the end. A beautiful quality in a player.

Don't think Brad Thorn was too impressed with his regaling. He turned his back on him.

Leinster has an Irish test loosie with a reputation among his team-mates for being way too opinionated, especially during training.

The story goes that Brad Thorn had been there for only two weeks when at training one night the loosie started having too much to say again.

Thorn apparently withdrew that gnarled head of his from out of a scrum and in that gravelly voice nobody can imitate: "Save the energy for the scrum mate. I can't even feel any weight from you. Less talk, more pushing mate!"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/6955685/All-Blacks-will-crush-misplaced-Irish-confidence

Nice Sin é. Schmidt himself gave Stuff.co.nz that one.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:Oh no of course they wouldnt and shouldnt say anything close to that publically. I had (probably foolishly) hoped that if it had been raised it would have been addressed.

You missed Gaffney getting the bullet then

There was a review at Christmas in Carton. Reports back were that the squad were very happy with the management set-up, really liked how they were treated, etc., but wanted to look at changing the attack coachig (which was done).

Looks like all those leaders are just 'yes' men which doesn't really help Ireland to win much, though except for the England game (caused by Ross going off and England targetting the scrum), Ireland weren't as bad as made out in the 6Ns. Losing the Welsh game was more Welsh luck than anything else.

Sin é if you seriously and genuinely think that overall Ireland are playing anything close to their true potential both in aggression, pace, and skill levels (holding onto balls, being able to catch simple passes, following through with sufficient support for players who seek and win ball) then I really don't know what decade your mind is in - because overall (give or take the one or two sizzlers the team put in each year) it is generally operating well below top level International standard - and our consistent world ranking of 8th proves it. The path to improvement might come if many of us get our head out of the sand on what defines the word quality.

So its Kidney's fault that D'Arcy keeps dropping balls? Surely its his skill coach in Leinster who should be doing that kind of work. Then you take into account that England were knocking on deliberately so that they could scrum a bit more!

In fairness, there is nothing much between those ranked 4-8 (6Ns teams).

You're a gramophone record now, Sin é...I'm tiring of the gramophone of everything is rosey, nothing wrong with Ireland, nothing wrong with the head coach or his fellow coaches, we're doing ok _____________ but *gasp* WAIT!!!!!

Everything is damn well not rosey! 'Cause Sexton is dirty and useless, Heaslip is rubbish, D'arcy knocks on, O'Driscoll is past it, Ross is lard, O'Brien has been found out, Kearney hasn't the skill to step up to International level, Redden isn't physical enough, ...I've missed a few other Leinster players but you get the deal. Tiring Sin é. To paraphrase you: "It's not wrong.... but here's the reasons it is wrong".

Is It Wrong Or Isn't It? You can't have it both ways. That's not going to work anymore. Is it wrong or isn't it? Answer that one first and then we can have a discussion. If things are still ok, if we're still good enough, if kidney is doing a fine job, if Wales hit lucky - then there is also nothing wrong with all the players you and DOD serially list off as the culprits for 'Bad Ireland' v Kidney's 'Good Ireland'.

No wonder the players and management are confused. Truth is you're no more happy with where Ireland are than I am...I'm just waiting for you to admit that one without a "BUT".

Sorry Fly, I'm not a stepford girl towing the 606v2 party line in that everything is Kidney's fault. I think Sexton is a nasty wee bugger and the incident with Mafi & ROG is just an indication that if things are not going his way, he is likely to lose the plot. Same with Heaslip. I would not want to be in the trenches with either of them.

As regards the rest of the Leinster players - they way you go on you'd think they are completely blameless when Ireland don't win when its plain to see (sorry for picking on D'Arcy, but he had a poor 6Ns) that Kidney isn't the one who drops the balls or kicks out on full etc. etc. And you can't blame Kidney for Ross getting injured in the last 6Ns (though I expect that is a bit much here).

IS-IT-ALL-RIGHT-OR-IS-IT-ALL-WRONG? That's the question. Don't evade it, Sin é

Things right or things wrong? You happy with Ireland being 8th ranked side in the world or aren't you? That's all I'm interested in hearing from you - I know all the other stuff about everything is rosey but most of the Leinster players aren't. I know that bit.

Sin é lets not make this into a Munster v Leinster debate. FFS we are all Irish fans.

I dont understand why when it comes to international we can't just be Irish fans instead of all this provincial willy waving.

Though if we do have to go down that road I'd just like to say SecretFly that a roaring red langer is much more impressive than a blue chilly willy

red_stag wrote:All I know Sin é is that we are failing miserably.

We have lost to Wales three times in a row
We just got annihilated by England
We choked against France and haven't beaten them in our last five meetings

It seems that big wins over Scotland and Italy are doing enough to convince people that all is ok.

We are capable of better. We are not doing better. Kidney is IMO not delivering the results and playing a very unambitious style of rugby completely under utilising the players available.

And on two occassions, Wales got the rub of the green (and Ireland were down to 3rd/4th choice centre with BOD & Earls out). And they just about scraped the win.

Lets say Graham Henry was coaching Ireland against England - what do you think he would have done once Ross got injured?

Sexton chocked against France - he had an opportunity for a drop goal and he didn't take it. Fear of failure on the big stage?

Big wins against Scotland & Italy are an improvement from last season when it was touch and go.

We are capable of doing better - when we have a fully fit team - major problem with depth in certain areas of the pitch (and I think the 23 man squads will make a huge difference to Ireland next season in that we'll be able to change our front row at 60 mins - Ross isn't an 80 min player).

Is that drinks? Cocktails? I'm afraid I'm so uncool as I don't drink so............................. I don't have a clue how to throw one back Stag.........

em...My dad is bigger than you Dad! So there! It's the best I can come up with for now until I research some cocktail ammo

Sin é I think that you make your own luck. Munster this season as you know had so so so so so many players missing with injuries. Yet we won 6/6 in our ERC pool and made the playoffs easily enough.

O'Driscoll literally played in 3 of Leinsters 9 Heineken Cup games - no issue they went and won the thing.

I think there is a skill and a knack to getting the rub of the green. The All Blacks do it. The Provinces do it. We don't do it internationally though.

SecretFly wrote:Is that drinks? Cocktails? I'm afraid I'm so uncool as I don't drink so............................. I don't have a clue how to throw one back Stag.........

em...My dad is bigger than you Dad! So there! It's the best I can come up with for now until I research some cocktail ammo

You are well to be naiive about such matters. No this is a test of manliness, of girth, of prowess and strenght of masculinity. Who is carrying the most weight between their legs. This is clearly what discussing rugby amounts to much of the time

Sin, you are claiming that Sexton is a "nasty wee bugger", a player who plays for YOUR team, and lost control at one point in a game. THREE years ago. You have never met the guy, you don't know his personality, but he makes one mistake (we haven't seen him lose control since) and apparently you can make the judgement that he is a "nasty wee bugger". That is very disappointing Sin.

I honestly think there is a lack of confidence within the irish squad, in fact the intensity is lacking on the international front. The tactics are all wrong, we play a game that we know Kidney has called "killing" the opposition, instead of creating our own opportunities. This has NOTHING to do with Leinster vs Munster either, which is the way you are making it out to be.

red_stag wrote:Sin é lets not make this into a Munster v Leinster debate. FFS we are all Irish fans.

Censure Fly - he is the one who started it. I'm only defending my opinion.

I dont understand why when it comes to international we can't just be Irish fans instead of all this provincial willy waving.

I don't understand why you behave like soccer fans - the answer is always its the coach's fault/sack the coach.

I'd appreciate if you would show me where I was willy waving any Munster player.

Sorry if you don't like that I don't think its Kidney's fault that Ross gets injured in the 6ns and Gordon D'Arcy's butter fingers are not his fault either.

I can't believe that there is a "them" and "us" mentality in our own international side.

I have not seen Fly turn this into a Leinster vs Munster thing once. Has he even mentioned Munster?

Sin é I mentioned Fly by name. We had a talk about cocktails. . .

The answer is not always sack the coach. Kidney is not a tactician. Nor does he claim to be. His skill has always involved surrounding himself with the right backroom staff, picking the right players, creating a good environment for the players to work in and ensuring that a talented team amounts to more than the sum of its parts.

He was picked for Ireland on that basis and rightly so. However for two years I feel he has failed on most of those counts. The team has been overtaken by England, Wales and France. He has not picked the right backroom staff. He does not seem to be picking the right players and the team is playing below what it is capable of.

"Everybody Knows" is a great bitingly satiric song by Leonard Cohen.

And yes, everybody knows who eternally turns Irish International talk into a Provincial tet-a-tet.

I'm not going to apologise for a blessed thing I said because everybody knows. I neither accept guilt nor bow to someone offloading it my way.

Everybody knows Sin é - everybody.

SecretFly wrote:"Everybody Knows" is a great bitingly satiric song by Leonard Cohen.

And yes, everybody knows who eternally turns Irish International talk into a Provincial tet-a-tet.

I'm not going to apologise for a blessed thing I said because everybody knows. I neither accept guilt nor bow to someone offloading it my way.

Everybody knows Sin é - everybody.

Been reading the last few pages over the last couple of days, Christ Sin your posts are silly on so many different levels!!!

Your dislike of Sexton is so strange.

No one hated Hayes for stamping on healy's face. It was an incident and we got over it. No one hated Horan for slamming BOD although that really buggered Ireland in the RWC.

You are so stuck up on Munster vs Leinster it is scary!

I think unless Kidney can somehow get a win he will have to go.
I think it is very foolish and negilent of him not to have got a backs coach since the new year. That worries me hugely.

The stats that were produced on the last page by Rava (?) and the conclussion that was writen was very good about Sexton and Reddan.

With the rules the way they are running rugby is winning rugby, look at all 4 semi finalists of the RWC and all of the semi finalists of the HCup.
Ireland need to embrace this culture and I don't think DK will/can.

He annoyed me when he came out with his squad for a few of his selections he also said something along the lines of "now is not the time to experiement hugely as this series is so important" WHAT DID HE DO WITH O'LEARY AND HURLEY IN THE SEMI FINAL OF THE HCUP!!!!

I find it ironic that you said you're not a "606 stepford girl" which is exactly what DOD called Eirebilly.

If you weren't a stepford girl (the term is stepford wife) then you'd have your own opinions, and perhaps your own phrasing?

SinE and DOD, the goths of 606, the only way to be all dark and non conformist is to dress like us and listen to our music....

red_stag wrote:

SecretFly wrote:"Everybody Knows" is a great bitingly satiric song by Leonard Cohen.

And yes, everybody knows who eternally turns Irish International talk into a Provincial tet-a-tet.

I'm not going to apologise for a blessed thing I said because everybody knows. I neither accept guilt nor bow to someone offloading it my way.

Everybody knows Sin é - everybody.

+1

Mickado wrote:I find it ironic that you said you're not a "606 stepford girl" which is exactly what DOD called Eirebilly.

If you weren't a stepford girl (the term is stepford wife) then you'd have your own opinions, and perhaps your own phrasing?

SinE and DOD, the goths of 606, the only way to be all dark and non conformist is to dress like us and listen to our music....

In fairness, I saw DOD's "stepford" quote and I thought it described Billy down to a T.

I know its Stepford Wives (but think 'girls' is more appropriate )

Mickado wrote:
SinE and DOD, the goths of 606, the only way to be all dark and non conformist is to dress like us and listen to our music....

I DO think about that one from time to time. The tweedle dee and tweedle dum aspect to Sin é and DOD.

No, not the making fun of them bit but the "are these two guys really two guys or just personas" bit. One being a half good cop and the other being a total out and out poison dart expert. Or just friends who do a nightly tally and joke session on who they've wound up today.

Rava wrote:

red_stag wrote:

SecretFly wrote:"Everybody Knows" is a great bitingly satiric song by Leonard Cohen.

And yes, everybody knows who eternally turns Irish International talk into a Provincial tet-a-tet.

I'm not going to apologise for a blessed thing I said because everybody knows. I neither accept guilt nor bow to someone offloading it my way.

Everybody knows Sin é - everybody.

+1

+1

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Your dislike of Sexton is so strange.

Would you prefer if I disliked him because he is O'Gara replacement.

I think he (and everyone else) would rather you grow up instead Sin!

red_stag wrote:Sin é I think that you make your own luck. Munster this season as you know had so so so so so many players missing with injuries. Yet we won 6/6 in our ERC pool and made the playoffs easily enough.

O'Driscoll literally played in 3 of Leinsters 9 Heineken Cup games - no issue they went and won the thing.

I think there is a skill and a knack to getting the rub of the green. The All Blacks do it. The Provinces do it. We don't do it internationally though.

After the QFs, Munster lost two important players to injury - Paul O'Connell and Conor Murray in the 6Ns. The fact that ROG was sitting on his arse for 2 months for Ireland wasn't much help to Munster's cause and no wonder he picked up an injury then.

FFS, the All Blacks struggled to win the world cup even with their strength and depth

Sin é wrote: The fact that ROG was sitting on his arse for 2 months for Ireland wasn't much help to Munster's cause and no wonder he picked up an injury then.

If O'Gara isn't sitting on his arse, Sexton is sitting on his... either way you have a warm bench and an unhappy player. What's the point about that one?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think he (and everyone else) would rather you grow up instead Sin!

+1

Sexton is a great player Sin simple as. Anyone who can't see that doesn't watch enough/know enough about him. He has not shone for Ireland as much as at Leinster but is that all his fault? I wouldn't say it is.

Our best game was against England at the Aviva (maybe the Aus game aside) and in that game Sextonw as instrumental, playing the kinda game that Ireland should be playing. Reddan was the 9. That is the way Ireland should and need to play.

Ah come on now lads take the fishhooks out of your mouths and lets be friends.....

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote: The fact that ROG was sitting on his arse for 2 months for Ireland wasn't much help to Munster's cause and no wonder he picked up an injury then.

If O'Gara isn't sitting on his arse, Sexton is sitting on his... either way you have a warm bench and an unhappy player. What's the point about that one?

If your not playing, you are going to find it difficult to be match fit. O'Gara wouldn't have taken a place kick in a match situation for about 2 months coming into the HC QF (where he picked up a dead leg which had him out for a few weeks) and had about 80 mins of rugby in the previous 2 months.