Australia v Wales 3rd Test: Teams and Build-Up

First topic message reminder :

Saturday 23rd June, 2012
15:00 EST, 06:00 BMT
Allianz Stadium (SFS), Moore Park, Capacity: 45,500
Current forecast for Saturday: Fine, 7-15 deg. C
Sydney Radar (The ground is halfway between .Sydney and .Randwick on the diagonal)

Australia:
15 Kurtley Beale
14 Adam Ashley-Cooper
13 Rob Horne
12 Pat McCabe
11 Digby Ioane
10 Berrick Barnes
9 Will Genia
8 Wycliff Palu
7 David Pocock (capt.)
6 Scott Higginbotham
5 Nathan Sharpe
4 Sitaleki Timani
3 Sekope Kepu
2 Tatafu Polota Nau
1 Benn Robinson

Reserves:
16 Stephen Moore, 17 Ben Alexander, 18 Rob Simmons, 19 Dave Dennis, 20 Michael Hooper, 21 Nic White, 22 Anthony Fainga'a.

Wales:
15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 Alex Cuthbert
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Ashley Beck
11 George North
10 Rhys Priestland
9 Mike Phillips
8 Ryan Jones
7 Sam Warburton (capt.)
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Alun Wyn Jones
4 Bradley Davies
3 Adam Jones
2 Matthew Rees
1 Gethin Jenkins

Reserves:
16 Ken Owens, 17 Paul James, 18 Luke Charteris, 19 Justin Tipuric, 20 Rhys Webb, 21 James Hook, 22 Scott Williams.

Linebreaker wrote:Just you and us to bumbling along for 2nd...

Unless there's some miracle dramatic improvement.

Yeah, we didn't really cover ourselves in glory did we.

Nope.
I was so looking forward to a better game today. I also believed it would be a more open running game but it was the same old same old.

Maybe England lifted all they could in your game but it was a below par performance from the Boks.
Steyne still missing kicks... what's going on?

However I think both teams will put on a show against each other in the 4N.
We usually do... and maybe NZ will be tested if the moons all align and the pendulum swings again. Slim chance though!

LB, he has missed 10 kicks out of 22.

And yes our performance was urinepoor

biltongbek wrote:LB, he has missed 10 kicks out of 22.

And yes our performance was urinepoor

Why wasn't Pienaar kicking!

You could see Morne's kicking was awful from the first test, changes should have been made.

Was Lambie injured for that last test?

yes wales, unfortunately he failed a fitness test on wednesday

Well done Australia on the series win. Obviously im disappointed but there was a lot of excitement throughout the 3 weeks. Shame some of the Aussies were missing to provide some more magic(better for us though).

Wales need to get back to playing some more rugby(like the aussies) not this negative game we employ, its good enough against the lesser sides but as this series has shown its not good enough to beat the best sides. We got good enough players to play more positively.

As for people com plaining about the ref, we could have had Max Boyce reffing and we would have lost to the Wallabies.

It is the inconsistency that gets to me. From game to game, and within each game. There is one set or rules how many interpretations can there be?

IAOB

Ifandorbut wrote:It is the inconsistency that gets to me. From game to game, and within each game. There is one set or rules how many interpretations can there be?

IAOB

Inconsistent refereeing is the fatal flaw of Rugby Union.

kingjohn7 wrote:Well done Australia on the series win. Obviously im disappointed but there was a lot of excitement throughout the 3 weeks. Shame some of the Aussies were missing to provide some more magic(better for us though).

Wales need to get back to playing some more rugby(like the aussies) not this negative game we employ, its good enough against the lesser sides but as this series has shown its not good enough to beat the best sides. We got good enough players to play more positively.

As for people com plaining about the ref, we could have had Max Boyce reffing and we would have lost to the Wallabies.

Agreed, very frustrating game, stop start.

I feel it was a wasted series opportunity to beat Australia with limited tactics, picking players not up to speed and leaving some of our best players on the bench e.g., J Hook, R Webb and I Evans not even on the bench! The first test, only Adam Jones played from the best and in form team in Wales, the other guys had not played for weeks or months in the case of injured players. D Lydiate should not have gone but had his ankle op to recover for next season.

I agree - though TBF (not that I think Howley deserves it) the S4C commentators said that Evans hadn't gotten over the jetlag and that's why he wasn't considered.

It also seemed laughable that today IMO was Priestland and Warburtons best performances and both got subbed (obviously Sam coz of injury) where you would have thought they should have been subbed last game.

As you say Lydiate, Warbs & Priestland (and maybe even Adam Jones) should have stayed behind to get fit - as it is I dread to think what state they'll be in for the start of the season, probably injured until just before the AIs where they'll play half fit and get injured til xmas time...

Don't forget John Davies needs a hernia operation too. So many of the lads that went out there really shouldn't have. They'll come back, get an op and probs face 6 weeks out and have a limited pre-season. It's going to have a negative effect on the regions for sure I reckon.

Maes and Ifandorbut - agree with you on the laws, interpretations and reffing inconsistencies, tis a blight that the game could do without, and would be much the better if the IRB looked into improving the situation. Sadly, I really don't think they're going to do anything about it.

Yup I was swearing at the TV so much, it's just ridiculous and every game players have to play a totally different way with the breakdown and scrum being a lottery because of the refs interpretation.

It's only since about 2010-11 that Australia has got the 'rub of the green' and you can put it down to talented and clever players like Pocock, Higginbotham, etc who are at the top of their game and seem to have best relations with the ref.

I know that sounds unfair but that's the harsh reality. At this level it is all about dealing with the particular ref for the game. It was the same as us watching McCaw year after year playing to his optimum - always in the ref's ear, if you know what I mean!

I can remember decades... maybe 2 or 3 - that's how long I've been following the game - and I can assure all Welsh fans, I too used to want to smash the TV or kick a stuffed toy across the room. Like Biltong.

Oz always got reffed out of the game, everything seemed to go the All Black's way (always offside (ref ignored), forward passes (sometimes 2 or 3 in one move!), knock-ons unseen by the ref, dirty play... and on and on and on.) So many times we lost by either 1 point at the last second, or by 2 points, 3 points, etc. The baastards were just too good... but much better than we were against Wales yesterday.

Apart from a few golden moments at various times in the last few decades, Australia has only really got it's act together very recently; despite still not playing to their potential in this last series. This, to me, is one good thing which has even surprised me but we have been lucky at producing decent, young, 'clever' players; ready and willing to take the step up to International level in the space of a year or two. We should be in a better position later on this year and on until 2015 hopefully.

Knowsit17 wrote:

gowales wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

gowales wrote:Knowsit s*& happens in rugby. If refs called everything they see in the game then there wouldn't be much to watch.

You can discuss and question the referee etc..

But i'm going to forget about this game now and move on

Sorry mate but you still haven't answered the question that I've posed twice in a row now. Third time: how do you excuse Joubert for letting Phillips get taken out without touching the ball? I don't think you can excuse it, which is why nobody's had a go yet.

I'm not saying Joubert lost us the game because he didn't. There's a difference between making claims of that nature and simply questioning some of the ref's decisions.

I'm not going to answer that because i don't think it had any bearing on the result, as i said Poopie happens

But I never suggested it ultimately had a bearing on the result so why put it that way? I'm just asking how you can excuse it. It's all well and good to say shizz happens but if you don't have the nerve to occasionally question a ref who's in the wrong you can't ever expect reffing standards to improve.

Don't you think you tend to concentrate on infringements that happen to your team, and either not notice or ignore those to the opposing team. This is the rub of the green isn't it? Anyway Mikey is such an inveterate user of the dummy pass he kind of invites a late tackle, IMO

Breaker - that's the point though, players shouldn't be looking to get the rub of the green from the ref. The ref should have a clear set of laws to draw from that are applied equally, players shouldn't be in a position to manipulate them depending on a referees interpretation. That's just a fundamental flaw with the sport.

Laws are only part of it though dreamer.

The rest is that unquantifiable human condition. Interaction.
As long as humans are playing the game there will always be manipulations from players to test the referee and the interpretations of the referee himself. Some will fail; others will succeed.

My point is though is that there are too many interpretations, that are too varied that often especially with the more technical aspects of the game with the scrum and breakdown, depending on the ref, it's almost like teams are being forced to play a different game that they are completely alien with. That shouldn't be allowed to happen.

I don't know of any other sport in the world where a match official has such a direct effect on the game. It shouldn't be happening.

We've had countless shocking ones too from the NH over the years.

It's beyond belief what we've had to go through with some of their interpretations and behaviour with the whistle.
Luckily, we've got a very good record in the AIs but we've had controversial decisions go against us many times in provincial tour matches on quite a few occasions as well as the odd Test/RWC match.

One thing I dislike more than a minor inconsistency in a particular ruling is a ref who demands to be in control of a match at the expense of allowing the spectator to watch a free-flowing game.

Those nasty, heavy-handed types who carry some chip on their shoulder and over-ref inconsistently and almost take some infringements as a personal attack against their 'rule of rugby laws'. It is such an obvious biased ref coupled with that ham-fisted style that I cannot bear to watch. It makes me feel ill just thinking about it after all these years.

oh yeah I wasn't having a go at SH ref's Breaker, but your reply backs up my point - there shouldn't be such a vast difference in interpretations of the game depending on where you're playing or where the man in the middle is from.

And I don't know about biased ref's but I don't like the incompetent ones. Human error is natural, but when they out and out get laws completely wrong and make up new sanctions for them - that I can't stand.

(And I couldn't tell if in your post you were being entirely serious actually, blydi getting up so early yesterday for the match has messed up my brain a bit )

I'm a bit tired too. I've now realised what a big day it was yesterday... all the build-up, etc.
I was so hanging out for it to happen and be over with.

Like you - I maybe need to have a break from all the blydi sport. After the Euros perhaps? It can get very draining following it with the intensity we do.

aye that it can.

Ah but you see after the euro's you've got Wimbledon and the Tour de France coming up then after that it's the Olympics. I've a crazy summer of following sport to look forward to.

We're also about 2/3 through the NRL and AFL seasons. That's pretty intense here too.
Then some ODI cricket, SA Tour as well as Olympics and TdF. There's no escape.

The conclusions I draw from this series includes:

1 The line out is still a problem under the Gatland management!
2 The defence and goal kicking is very good
3 Fitness is very good
4 We have strength in depth except tighthead.
5 We have a poor flyhalf that constantly gets picked however he plays, why?
6 The bench is very strong and some of the players are better than those starting also, in some case don't get on or it is too late. Linked to 4 above.
7 Team selection is a problem, the management stick with their (Gatland's) team regardless of fitness, form within or outside the team and playing players out of position. The last point demonstrated with Hook at FB again during the first test. Playing the first test with Lydiate, Warburton, S Williams, J Davies, Charteris all coming back from injury or still injured and the rest of the "first" team had hardly played for 6 weeks, the form players were playing the BaaBaas. We could blame WRU for money grabing but the coaches should show some common sense/flexibility.
8 Not taking Biggar or playing I Evans was crazy, is Howley a yes man for Gatland, it looks like it to me.
9 Wales should have played more mid week matches so the guys not selected could get a game or two and be up to speed if needed.
10 If we can see these issues why can the coaches, do we need a shake up?
11 Is Warburton a captain, I don't think so, is he our best 7, maybe?
12 Was it a worth while tour, yes, if lessons have been learnt
13 The tactics of wellying the ball down the pitch did not work, when we run at the Australians we made good progress, why kick so much to such a dangerous attacking side?
14 Another positive is we are challenging in the line out.

I am sure others can add to the above (or disagree) but overall a very entertaining series, roll on the next tour (Lions).

15 - no back lines moves what so ever
16 - Awj had a shocker
17 - Rees lineout is useless
18 - gethin seemed off the pace
19 - Phillips. The time has come for a more traditional scrum half, we're not winning games with him so why bother picking another back rower?

I thought that the whole three test series concept worked really well. The players and management must be debased at losing two close game but hopefully will have learnt a great deal about what the next steps are.

We had a powerful scrum but a poor line out.

Good 3/4s but the halfbacks under performed.

We have a lot of young and talented backrowers but they didn't win the breakdown, or adapt to the referees as well as the opposition did.

I am an optimist but I think we all should be happy with the progress and the changes made within the structure of welsh rugby for the better over the last ten years and we are inevitably seeing the dividends, stronger player base, much more competitive against the top sides in meaningful matches and we are winning championships.

The future looks bold and bright, we have a rich seam of youth rugby constantly improving the senior game, we have a good management team that have improved the quality and success of our rugby.

I think hard work and patience are two key words to abide by in Wales. The players need to keep working hard but me far more patient with the ball in hand, play more phases let opportunities creat themselves as we apply pressure. And patience for us the fans. Youth is on our side, the dividends will come.

I am disappointed we didn't take at least one the opportunities presented to us but clearly progress has been made. However 5/5 losses to Aus in a year is awful however you spin it. What concerns me is the unforced error rate and inconsistency of big name players e.g. AWJ and SW. I also think our scrum is built on a front row that is fast approaching it's sell by date. It also revealed our dependence on Roberts in midfield and Shane to make something out of nothing. I think if he is good enough for Japan he should be coaxed back into the squad but of course that won't happen. I also think Gatland should not be released for the Lions

I must say im impressed with ur optimism all thro this tour maes in comparison to my (sometimes) negativity its been a bit of a breath of fresh air