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The free-for-all "Cleverly at HW/Calzaghe would beat Wlad/Rocky Marciano was Rubbish/Mimsy" Thread

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The free-for-all "Cleverly at HW/Calzaghe would beat Wlad/Rocky Marciano was Rubbish/Mimsy" Thread Empty The free-for-all "Cleverly at HW/Calzaghe would beat Wlad/Rocky Marciano was Rubbish/Mimsy" Thread

Post by Boxtthis Wed 25 Jul 2012, 1:26 pm

Just read this on boxing scene:

http://www.boxingscene.com/team-cleverly-nathan-wants-fight-heavyweight--55352

Clev's dad saying that he's filling out and wants to fight as a HW one day. Could be the lightest punching HW in history! I wonder if there's any nurses in the HW division?

C'mon Nathan, how about you fight someone decent at LHW first? His record as a title holder is becoming embarrassing.

In light of Gordy's chat I've changed the title of the thread so that it gives a more accurate representation of it's content!


Last edited by Boxtthis on Fri 27 Jul 2012, 5:01 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 1:39 pm

No amount of "filling out" is going to allow Cleverly to fight effectively at Heavyweight - he's just too small for it. In fact, he'd be going some just to compete at Cruiser.

That's not to even mention his style, which wouldn't lend itself well to taking on the seventeen stone plus behemoths that populate the Heavyweight class today. He takes too many shots, doesn't move around the ring to tire the bigger man out and, I suspect, would not hit hard enough to halt their charge, either.

Roy Jones or Mike Spinks (who, as they always said, had the upper body of a Middleweight but the legs of a Heavyweight, a stark contrast to Cleverly's Spongebob twigs) Mr. Cleverly most certainly isn't.

Cleverly can unify titles (yes, I said it), make a shed load of money and, to some degree, write his name in to British boxing history if he stays at Light-Heavy, a division he may still be growing in to even now, realistically. Up at Heavy, he'll do none of that.
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Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Wed 25 Jul 2012, 1:52 pm

Any word of this MASSIVE announcement??
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Post by mobilemaster8 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 2:00 pm

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Any word of this MASSIVE announcement??


I have heard:


Nathan Cleverly vs Shumenov in October.

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Post by quentins_monkey Wed 25 Jul 2012, 2:02 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:
Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Any word of this MASSIVE announcement??


I have heard:


Nathan Cleverly vs Shumenov in October.

Failing that Cleverly v Klitschko... laughing

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 2:05 pm

Well Cleverly Sr. has said in the linked article that they're "in talks" with Shumenov, as well as Hopkins, apparently. You can forget Hopkins, it won't happen for a variety of reasons. If it's Shumenov, I for one will be happy. A clear step up, a unification fight but a fight that is entirely winnable.

Whatever the weather, team Cleverly need to show that they're serious about this quest to be the best 175 lb man in the world pretty soon - the lad's already got both barrels many times over from his harshest critics. Can you imagine the uproar if, after the long wait and all the talk of a "big announcement", it was revealed that Cleverly's next defence is to be against an unranked, Euro-level operator? v2 would become a dark, dark place!
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Post by Rowley Wed 25 Jul 2012, 2:18 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Well Cleverly Sr. has said in the linked article that they're "in talks" with Shumenov, as well as Hopkins, apparently. You can forget Hopkins, it Can you imagine the uproar if, after the long wait and all the talk of a "big announcement", it was revealed that Cleverly's next defence is to be against an unranked, Euro-level operator? v2 would become a dark, dark place!


If for no other reason than out of consideration for us poor folk who have to moderate round here they need to pull something out of the bag.

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Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Wed 25 Jul 2012, 2:19 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:
Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Any word of this MASSIVE announcement??


I have heard:


Nathan Cleverly vs Shumenov in October.

We all heard Hopkins:

We got Tony Bellew

We then heard Shumenov

We got Karpency

We heard Hopkins again:

We got an arranged fight against some bum in the Royal Albert Hall which never happened.

We are hearing Shumenov again:

We will probably get Karpency again.
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Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Wed 25 Jul 2012, 2:31 pm

haha,

To be honest, didn't his mandatory they avoided like the plague Sukhotski get beat 2 weeks ago.

He seems ripe for the pickin' now
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Post by J.Benson II Wed 25 Jul 2012, 2:32 pm

Boxtthis wrote:
Clev's dad saying that he's filling out and wants to fight as a HW one day. Could be the lightest punching HW in history! I wonder if there's any nurses in the HW division?


Any HW, even a nurse, would just walk straight through him and blow him away.

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Post by Gordy Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:17 pm

How can anyone blame him for considering fighting at heavyweight? Its the worst heavyweight division in history so there must plenty of fighters from other divisions who would fancy their chances of winning the title there.

Joe Calzaghe said he could have won at heavyweight and when you see the likes of Haye, Audley Harrison, Chisora and chancers like these making big money up there then I would back Calzaghe against any of the current heavyweights.. Admittadly he was a great, great fighter that I cant see Cleverly being able to emulate but I certainly dont blame him for thinking about it. The division is so poor at the moment and there is alot of money to made. Look no further than Haye who did not start of as a heavyweight but moved up there and earned a fortune.

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Post by alanqlm Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:20 pm

Difference being, Haye can punch. Both Cleverly and Calzaghe didn't punch hard enough to keep any Heavyweight off them.

Cleverly especially would just get walked down and eventually stopped by any half decent Heavyweight, infact Id be pretty certain the vast majority of top 20 Cruisers would do the exact same.

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Post by trottb Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:23 pm

Gordy wrote:Its the worst heavyweight division in history

I'd love to see Lewis come out of retirement and win it all back with one hand behind his back and being forced to hop wouldn't you? Rolling Eyes

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:30 pm

Did I really just see Gordy speculate that Calzaghe would be a Heavyweight champion if he campaigned there today? God help us all...

For record, Gordon, the Heavyweight division of 2004-2008 (between Lewis' retirement, Vitali's return and when Wladimir was a far less accomplished fighter than he is now) was far weaker than it currently is. Calzaghe wouldn't have won a Heavyweight title even then, musch less now. I'm pretty sure that, if it were as easy as you seem to think for a Super-Middle to move up to Heavyweight and prosper, he'd ave done it then, particularly as those were the best years of his career.

But hey, don't let me keep you from your next inane ramblings about Price the hype job, the magnificent Eubank and how wonderful Lennox was, old bean!
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Post by Gordy Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:31 pm

trottb wrote:
Gordy wrote:Its the worst heavyweight division in history

I'd love to see Lewis come out of retirement and win it all back with one hand behind his back and being forced to hop wouldn't you? Rolling Eyes

Sad thing is that he is very capable of doing it. However he has earned the right to retire and enjoy his money. The division needs new fighters of his talent badly. Interest in the heavyweights is all but gone these days. A Lewis, Ali or a Tyson is whats needed to get people interested again.

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Post by JabMachineMK2 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:34 pm

Hi Gordy.

I think Lewis was poor. he was boring and over rated. Price would beat him hands down.

Regards

Jab

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Post by azania Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:34 pm

Lewis laughing

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Post by Rowley Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:36 pm

As Chris has already alluded to I have often made this point when people seek to diminish Roy Jones achievement in winning a heavyweight title as a former middleweight if it is genuinely as easy as waiting until the division is in a lull and pouncing on a weak champion why do more smaller fighters not do it. Can only guess the increased purses and place in boxing immortality do not appeal to them.

Personally I don't care though I am just waiting for Larry Holmes to come back, he may be nearly 60 and completely out of shape but he once had talent so surely that will be enough to see him through.

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Post by Gordy Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:37 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Did I really just see Gordy speculate that Calzaghe would be a Heavyweight champion if he campaigned there today? God help us all...

For record, Gordon, the Heavyweight division of 2004-2008 (between Lewis' retirement, Vitali's return and when Wladimir was a far less accomplished fighter than he is now) was far weaker than it currently is. Calzaghe wouldn't have won a Heavyweight title even then, musch less now. I'm pretty sure that, if it were as easy as you seem to think for a Super-Middle to move up to Heavyweight and prosper, he'd ave done it then, particularly as those were the best years of his career.

But hey, don't let me keep you from your next inane ramblings about Price the hype job, the magnificent Eubank and how wonderful Lennox was, old bean!

Im talking about Calzaghe before he retired of course, not the one in retirement now. He said himself he would have beaten the heavyweight champion back then so he more than confiedent enough. He is a much better fighter than the likes of David Haye or Audley Harrison and with a bit more muscle on him he would have more than enough talent to win there.

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Post by Union Cane Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:39 pm

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Post by Rowley Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:41 pm

[quote="Gordy"]
88Chris05 wrote: He said himself he would have beaten the heavyweight champion back then so he more than confiedent enough.

There is a geezer goes in my local who reckons he could take either of the Klitschko's to the cleaners, doesn't make it so.

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Post by JabMachineMK2 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:41 pm

David Haye would have crushed Calzaghe. Valuev, Klitschko, Samuel Peters, Chris Byrd - all of these would smash through Calzaghe. The difference between Light-Heavy and Heavyweight is 25lbs.

When I spar against Light Heavyweights (as a Middleweight (gone up in weight...do not like these new harder punches!) they hit so much damn harder than that and thats at amateur level so I would hate to take a full on punch to the face if I campaigned at 3 weightclasses below for the majority of my career.

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Post by Union Cane Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:43 pm

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Post by alanqlm Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:44 pm

Gordy wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Did I really just see Gordy speculate that Calzaghe would be a Heavyweight champion if he campaigned there today? God help us all...

For record, Gordon, the Heavyweight division of 2004-2008 (between Lewis' retirement, Vitali's return and when Wladimir was a far less accomplished fighter than he is now) was far weaker than it currently is. Calzaghe wouldn't have won a Heavyweight title even then, musch less now. I'm pretty sure that, if it were as easy as you seem to think for a Super-Middle to move up to Heavyweight and prosper, he'd ave done it then, particularly as those were the best years of his career.

But hey, don't let me keep you from your next inane ramblings about Price the hype job, the magnificent Eubank and how wonderful Lennox was, old bean!

Im talking about Calzaghe before he retired of course, not the one in retirement now. He said himself he would have beaten the heavyweight champion back then so he more than confiedent enough. He is a much better fighter than the likes of David Haye or Audley Harrison and with a bit more muscle on him he would have more than enough talent to win there.

Old Joe said it so it must be true, and while we are on it Khan said he was gonna knock out Garcia, so we were all wrong about the result of that fight it was actually Khan who won. O and Haye said he was gonna knock out Wlad too so David Haye is the No.1 heavyweight in the world atm. Rolling Eyes

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Post by azania Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:45 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:David Haye would have crushed Calzaghe. Valuev, Klitschko, Samuel Peters, Chris Byrd - all of these would smash through Calzaghe. The difference between Light-Heavy and Heavyweight is 25lbs.

When I spar against Light Heavyweights (as a Middleweight (gone up in weight...do not like these new harder punches!) they hit so much damn harder than that and thats at amateur level so I would hate to take a full on punch to the face if I campaigned at 3 weightclasses below for the majority of my career.

Whistle

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Post by azania Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:47 pm

Gordy

I liked JC, but to say he would have won anything north of LHW is stretching things a little. Perhaps he may have won at CR. But at HW. I have as much chance as he does. Zero.

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Post by JabMachineMK2 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:47 pm

I'm never going to be able to talk credibly about my own experiences am I picard

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Post by quentins_monkey Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:48 pm

Back to Cleverly - how can he honestly think that he'll stand a chance up at HW? He's hardly smashing through everyone in his own weight division (less than 50% KO ratio against a fairly low level of opposition)...

He hasn't done anything of note at LHW yet so think he's getting a touch ahead of himself...

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Post by Gordy Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:48 pm

This is his own statement on the issue made just after he retired which I found there:

"I see the guys fighting now and I know I could beat them all," he declared. "That’s always the case.

"I’m Joe Calzaghe, I could beat anyone. I could step up and beat Wladimir Klitschko if I wanted."


That is the same boxer who beat Haye. He would of course be bigger than Calzaghe but Calzaghe is is far quicker and much more skillful a boxer. Without the hard dieting he had to do to make weight and with some additional muscle he would have too much talent for the heavyweights around today. Haye did not start out as heavyeight either but he put on weight and grew into the division. Calzaghe is miles better than Haye and could have done the same a few years ago.

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Post by azania Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:51 pm

Calzaghe could beat Wlad. laughing laughing laughing

Yahoo Yahoo

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Post by JabMachineMK2 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:54 pm

Gordy wrote:This is his own statement on the issue made just after he retired which I found there:

"I see the guys fighting now and I know I could beat them all," he declared. "That’s always the case.

"I’m Joe Calzaghe, I could beat anyone. I could step up and beat Wladimir Klitschko if I wanted."


That is the same boxer who beat Haye. He would of course be bigger than Calzaghe but Calzaghe is is far quicker and much more skillful a boxer. Without the hard dieting he had to do to make weight and with some additional muscle he would have too much talent for the heavyweights around today. Haye did not start out as heavyeight either but he put on weight and grew into the division. Calzaghe is miles better than Haye and could have done the same a few years ago.

So....Floyd Mayweather could have a realistic chance against Dawson?

Ward against Wlad?

What.....is....this...man......must....resist....urge.....to...troll....

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Post by Gordy Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:57 pm

Mayweather has moved up many weight divisions from when he started off. Boxers do it all the time. Calzaghe is much bigger than Mayweather so he could move up to heavier divisions if he wanted to.

Back in the 80s fighters like Duran and Hearns were always moving up weight divisions.

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Post by Rowley Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:59 pm

Gordy, why are you willing to accept Calzaghe's words as gospel and obviously the truth without any need for him to prove them or without you questioning how realistic they are but when I provided you a similar quote from Eubank saying pretty much straight out that he did not want to fight Roy Jones you dismiss it as it does not fit with your own view. Not the most consistent of positions to maintain

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Post by trottb Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:08 pm

Think we all know the answer to that one Jeff.

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:18 pm

Gordy wrote:Mayweather has moved up many weight divisions from when he started off. Boxers do it all the time. Calzaghe is much bigger than Mayweather so he could move up to heavier divisions if he wanted to.

Back in the 80s fighters like Duran and Hearns were always moving up weight divisions.

In his last fight, Mayweather weighed about a stone and a half more than when he started his career - he was fighting men of the same size as him. If Calzaghe also put on a stone and a half from the weight at which he started his career, he'd be a very small cruiserweight. If Calzaghe put on four stone from the weight at which he started his career he'd be a) fat, and b) still fighting men who outweighed him by up to three stone.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:19 pm

Laugh I can't believe what am reading here

Keep it coming Gordy


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Post by J.Benson II Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:26 pm

Gordy's a WUM guys. Just check out his Euro 2012 team of the tournament if you want proof.

https://www.606v2.com/t31923-team-of-the-tournament

Rooney? Rolling Eyes

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Post by Union Cane Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:29 pm

Rooney is a hype job and isn't fit to lace the boots of real champions like Lineker, McManaman and Barmby.
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Post by Rowley Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:30 pm

Union Cane wrote:Rooney is a hype job and isn't fit to lace the boots of real champions like Lineker, McManaman and Barmby.

In fact Linekar could make a comeback now and still get into the England team.

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Post by Gordy Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:32 pm

And what about the gigantic Russian fellow that fought Haye? He probably outweighs every boxer he fights by about 10 stone! Is he the best fighter in history?

No because the heavyweights now have no talent. They are just big lumbering oxen. Calzaghe would be smaller than them but the point is he has miles more skill, speed and talent as a boxer. Haye weighed less than Chisora by a good amount and beat him handily. Chisora and Harrison weigh alot but its alot of uselessness! Same goes for pretty much the whole division these days!

Calzaghe said this himself so I dont see why there is so much issue with it. He never lost in his whole career and knows thing or two about boxing and spotting talent so I think hes qualified to say!

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Post by ShahenshahG Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:32 pm

Rowley - unfortunately thats far too close to the truth for it to be funny Crying or Very sad

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:32 pm

J.Benson II wrote:Gordy's a WUM guys. Just check out his Euro 2012 team of the tournament if you want proof.

https://www.606v2.com/t31923-team-of-the-tournament

Rooney? Rolling Eyes

Whatever, Benson. You probably think that the Pope is a catholic!

Still, it's good to see that there are at least a couple on this thread who, somehow, aren't bored of the Gord just yet.
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Post by Union Cane Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:32 pm

Here is something I found :

"I am the best player in the world." - Dennis Wise

This proves that he is.
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Post by quentins_monkey Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:33 pm

Union Cane wrote:Rooney is a hype job and isn't fit to lace the boots of real champions like Lineker, McManaman and Barmby.

Mcmanaman used to be pretty quick, didn't he? Reckon if he put a few pounds on he might be able to win a HW strap... Wink

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:35 pm

Yeah Gordy, you're right. Calzaghe deserves way more credit for talking about it (after retirement, mind you) than Jones does for actually doing it...
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Post by Rowley Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:36 pm

Gordy wrote:

Calzaghe said this himself so I dont see why there is so much issue with it.

And Eubank said himself that he did not want to fight Roy Jones but you took issue with that.


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Post by seanmichaels Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:40 pm

rowley wrote:
Gordy wrote:

Calzaghe said this himself so I dont see why there is so much issue with it.

And Eubank said himself that he did not want to fight Roy Jones but you took issue with that.


Christopher would have beaten Roy.

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Post by Rowley Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:41 pm

Calzaghe also said he had no interest in fighting Roy Jones as he was washed up, how did taking him at his word on that one work out for you?

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Post by trottb Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:42 pm

Can someone change the topic name from Cleverlys to Gordys?

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Post by Seanusarrilius Wed 25 Jul 2012, 4:51 pm

Clev needs to ditch his Dad. Has taught him to eat punches and slap, and now this. Pah

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