The free-for-all "Cleverly at HW/Calzaghe would beat Wlad/Rocky Marciano was Rubbish/Mimsy" Thread

[Boxtthis]

First topic message reminder :

Just read this on boxing scene:

http://www.boxingscene.com/team-cleverly-nathan-wants-fight-heavyweight--55352

Clev's dad saying that he's filling out and wants to fight as a HW one day. Could be the lightest punching HW in history! I wonder if there's any nurses in the HW division?

C'mon Nathan, how about you fight someone decent at LHW first? His record as a title holder is becoming embarrassing.

In light of Gordy's chat I've changed the title of the thread so that it gives a more accurate representation of it's content!

[Lumbering_Jack]

I think Az is trying to become the new D4. I wonder who the new Coxy will be. My money is on tophat (or Toppy as Az affectionately calls you).

Let me just see if get the drift though. Marciano, despite being an unbeaten heavyweight champ is not top 50 in the HW division. He would also lose to fighters such as Audley. In addition to this he would also not be ranked in any of the SMW, LHW, or CW divisions because his skills are so lacking?

Wow, he really wasa rubbish.

LOL I think he thinks 'toppy' will annoy me. It doesn't. It's 1) slightly endearing; 2) proves he's a WUM (as by definition it's a wind-up tactic); and 3) petulence/condescension is a sign of defeat.

Does that Mean Tina is displaying signs of defeat with me.... Withering Sack, Clumbersome Sack etc...

Even rich city boys have a breaking point!!

In all honesty though. Az has dug himself a 25 mile hole, and rather than ask for help getting out he is sticking to his point. Its is like catching a kid with crumbs round his face and watching him try and argue he didnt eat the biscuits.

[TopHat24/7]

I'm officially out of this thread. Retired. The basic processes of dialectic have been shat on.

Azania doesn't win arguments, he just wills his opponenents into exhasperated retardation.

well done toppy. Probably the 100th post of yours that is simply a dig at me. Great manner of debating there old boy.

what's the point of debating with you though? There's half a dozen posters on this thread, all more knowledgeable than you or I and capable of putting together much more coherent well reasonend arguments but still you drag the thread on/down.

which is why you are considered a WUM.

Very good Toppy. Is that why you seem to post about me and not adress anything made my anyone. Either that or you simply are a cheerleader for others. Man up son and contribute. If you don't like it, move along. A friendly advice Toppy.

I've tried, plenty of times on plenty of threads, sometimes showing you up sometimes failing exasperated. I think I even posted a couple of times sensibly on this thread but as I've pointed out above, the best I could ever do still isn't as good as Chris, Rowley or Gentleman for example, and they've given up as you're so tiresome to argue/debate with.

[88Chris05]

Well, poor ol' Rocky has (yet again!) been discussed, praised, criticised and analysed from every possible angle many times over, so maybe it's time for this thread to take yet another turn.

Az, on what basis are you so confident that the second Sugar Ray beats the original? I'm assuming, of course, that there's more to it than Ray II being born thirty-odd years later?

There isn't a great deal of footage available of Robinson at 147 lb, but the record books and eye witness accounts show that he was pretty untouchable at the weight. Gavilan, surely a superior Welter to anyone Leonard fought, could do nothing more than put up a valiant effort against Robinson twice over, whereas Leonard's greatest rivals had somewhat more success in their efforts against him.

I think Leonard would be capable of upsetting Robinson at Welterweight, but I'd have to make Robinson the narrow favourite, all things considered.

At anything above Welterweight, surely there's nothing to suggest that Robinson can be anything other than a very, very firm favourite there? Leonard was an utterly fantastic Welter, certainly the best since his namesake, in fact, but I see very little on his record to suggest 'greatness' above that weight. Aside from the Hagler fight, far from a crowning moment for Leonard in the eyes of many to this day, his record and performances in general at Light-Middle or higher were little more than an echo of his Welterweight pomp.

Not at his best against Kalule or Howard at 154, awarded a very fortunate draw second time out against Hearns (in a brilliant fight, admittedly) at 168, struggled against LaLonde and didn't really distinguish himself against a podgy, passive Duran who had no business fighting at Super-Middleweight in the first place.

Leonard an incredible Welterweight, but nothing more than sound at the higher weights. Robinson, on the other hand, probably an even better Welter but also a genuinely great Middle. That's not to mention that he really should have held the Lightweight title, too, had Angott and / or Jenkins not refused, point blank, to give him a title shot. As early as 1942 the press were calling RObinson the "uncrowned Lightweight champion of the world" on the basis of his wins over Angott.

I'm pretty sure that you're not taking records and achievements in to the equation, but again it doesn't really need explaining that Robinson trumps Leonard handily there, too. I rate Leonard very, very highly and, if someone opined that he was the greatest since Robinson, I wouldn't argue against them too much. But I'd draw the line long before suggestions that he was actually greater than the original Sugar Ray.

[azania]

I think Az is trying to become the new D4. I wonder who the new Coxy will be. My money is on tophat (or Toppy as Az affectionately calls you).

Let me just see if get the drift though. Marciano, despite being an unbeaten heavyweight champ is not top 50 in the HW division. He would also lose to fighters such as Audley. In addition to this he would also not be ranked in any of the SMW, LHW, or CW divisions because his skills are so lacking?

Wow, he really wasa rubbish.

LOL I think he thinks 'toppy' will annoy me. It doesn't. It's 1) slightly endearing; 2) proves he's a WUM (as by definition it's a wind-up tactic); and 3) petulence/condescension is a sign of defeat.

Trust me, calling you toppy is not me trying to goad you. If you thought so, I can only apologise for it and not use it again.

[Lumbering_Jack]

I think Az is trying to become the new D4. I wonder who the new Coxy will be. My money is on tophat (or Toppy as Az affectionately calls you).

Let me just see if get the drift though. Marciano, despite being an unbeaten heavyweight champ is not top 50 in the HW division. He would also lose to fighters such as Audley. In addition to this he would also not be ranked in any of the SMW, LHW, or CW divisions because his skills are so lacking?

Wow, he really wasa rubbish.

LOL I think he thinks 'toppy' will annoy me. It doesn't. It's 1) slightly endearing; 2) proves he's a WUM (as by definition it's a wind-up tactic); and 3) petulence/condescension is a sign of defeat.

Trust me, calling you toppy is not me trying to goad you. If you thought so, I can only apologise for it and not use it again.

There's a good boy, Azzy Wazzy Woo.

[azania]

I can only go by what I have seen and read about both guys. SRR was something special at 147 and had 1 defeat in 100+ fights. Incredible. But forone thing, I am no fan of SRL. I wanted him to lose every time he stepped into the ring. I saw him as a small Ali and for me there was only one Ali and anyone who tried to be like him deserved to lose everything (house, wife, car and fights).

But give credit where its due. He was a magnificent fighter.

Not saying that he would walk through SRR. But for me speed will be the deciding factor. SRR had the power but SRL had the speed. They were both equally intelligent in the rind so cant seperate them there. The only difference maker would be speed and SRL edges it there.

I remmember years back the Ring did a potential match up as part of their dream fights. It looked at their strengths and weaknesses and based its results on that. They edged it to SRR based on his power and experience and gave the W to SRR on a split. I agreed with them then but in hindsight it was (for me) based on my dislike of SRL that anything else. I take speed over power when all else is equal.

[azania]

Jack if you have anything intelligent to write, please put it in capitals.

[Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn]

So Az thinks he would win because The Ring said so.


It never gets boring with this idiot haha

[88Chris05]

Thanks for the reply, Az. From the available footage of Robinson I think we can safely say that the man had tremendous speed himself, both in hand and foot. That said, I'd agree with you that Leonard may just be a touch quicker.

However, I'm not so sure that it's as simple as just stating that great speed trumps great power and then being done with it. Leonard's speed didn't make light work of Duran, nor Hearns. Although he certainly beat Benitez a lot more comfortably than you'd expect.

Leonard was a magnificent fighter at range - as was Robinson - but didn't particularly like it "up him", I don't think. Robinson had the added advantage of being a good fighter up close and on the inside (you can't beat the Basilios of this world if you're not!) and I just can't get the memory of Leonard being outmuscled and repeatedly pushed back by Duran at his beloved Welterweight out of my head when I think about how he'd get on against Robinson.

Still Robinson by a close decision for me, (slightly) more often than not at Welterweight. Wide decision almost every time at any weight above that.

[azania]

And when I respond in kind to this jackass the mods threaten to ban me yet ignore the deliberate provocation.

Never mind.

Carry on as usual Dee. But try to read what I wrote. I said I disagreed with the Ring. And you call me the idiot. Those in glass houses.....

[seanmichaels]

And when I respond in kind to this jackass the mods threaten to ban me yet ignore the deliberate provocation.

Perhaps they could ban you both for a week? Season 4 would then be in the bag......

[ShahenshahG]

Thanks for the reply, Az. From the available footage of Robinson I think we can safely say that the man had tremendous speed himself, both in hand and foot. That said, I'd agree with you that Leonard may just be a touch quicker.

However, I'm not so sure that it's as simple as just stating that great speed trumps great power and then being done with it. Leonard's speed didn't make light work of Duran, nor Hearns. Although he certainly beat Benitez a lot more comfortably than you'd expect.

Leonard was a magnificent fighter at range - as was Robinson - but didn't particularly like it "up him", I don't think. Robinson had the added advantage of being a good fighter up close and on the inside (you can't beat the Basilios of this world if you're not!) and I just can't get the memory of Leonard being outmuscled and repeatedly pushed back by Duran at his beloved Welterweight out of my head when I think about how he'd get on against Robinson.

Still Robinson by a close decision for me, (slightly) more often than not at Welterweight. Wide decision almost every time at any weight above that.

Duran batters SRR so thats not helpful

I think SRR wins againsy SRL but that speed causes him an awful lot of problems. Duran was small quick and got inside through excellent ability of rolling and slipping punches - but mostly because Leonard took him on. I don't think Leonard dares face down Robinson like that which might sneak him the win. I've always thought if anyone could beat SRR at Welterweight it was probably Hearns in a 12 rounder - right combination of height speed, power and boxing ability. Leonard though gets timed and I can't help think despite Leonards speed and ring intelligence - he just gets hit too hard a little to often and gets finished in about 7 rounds.

[bhb001]

Lennox can turn up half drunk and he'd still beat Rocky. This is a very slow fighter with short stumpy arms against a giant who is faster and more athletic than he is. Rocky would not get close. He may punch Lennox a few times in the knackers and get DQ.

Just like he did to Rahman and Mccall first time around. Oh wait, he got caught because he under rated his opponents, not once but twice. Any sort of chance like that would have been exploited by Marciano.

Archie Moore said the one mistake he made when fighting Marciano was knocking him down in the first round, because it "just made him mad!".

Apologies, I did not respond fully.

No chance Rocky would get close to Lewis to land those punches. However bad they were, Rahman and McCall at least had height, reach and faster upper body movement to me able to get in place for the shot. I see a Lewis Rocky fight similar to the Tua fight but easier for Lewis.

Az, I understand your point perfectly and there is good logic to it. I just believe that Rocky is hard done by and people do not take into account that he was a fighter through and through. He always found a way to win and we all admit that he didn't cherry pick his opponents, fighting anyone who was put in front of him. I believe Lewis would have found him far more of a handful than an over the hill Tyson.

[Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn]

Oh Sean so is that how it is. I don't think you could live with yourself if you won SHEEP under false pretences haha

[azania]

Thanks for the reply, Az. From the available footage of Robinson I think we can safely say that the man had tremendous speed himself, both in hand and foot. That said, I'd agree with you that Leonard may just be a touch quicker.

However, I'm not so sure that it's as simple as just stating that great speed trumps great power and then being done with it. Leonard's speed didn't make light work of Duran, nor Hearns. Although he certainly beat Benitez a lot more comfortably than you'd expect.

Leonard was a magnificent fighter at range - as was Robinson - but didn't particularly like it "up him", I don't think. Robinson had the added advantage of being a good fighter up close and on the inside (you can't beat the Basilios of this world if you're not!) and I just can't get the memory of Leonard being outmuscled and repeatedly pushed back by Duran at his beloved Welterweight out of my head when I think about how he'd get on against Robinson.

Still Robinson by a close decision for me, (slightly) more often than not at Welterweight. Wide decision almost every time at any weight above that.

I don't think SRR fought anyone in the calibre of Hearns or Duran to be fair. Hearns is a chin away from being a top 5 ATG and Duran hovers in and around the top 8. Both would be a nightmare for any WW in history and I would give Hearns a fair chance of beating anyone at any given time between WW and MW.

What Duran showed was that SRL was a good inside fighter, but not a great inside fighter. I don't buy the excuse that SRL fought his fight. I reckon Duran forced him into the trenches. SRL learned from that and the defeat was good for him and made him a better all round fighter for it. At least it made him more intelligent.

I think in this fight, SRL will try as much as possible t keep it at range where his speed be optimised and more effective. He didn't have the power of SRR but punched hard enough to command respect nevertheless. As a combination puncher there wasn't any better imo.

If SRL could control Hagler (experience of Duran helped there) I reckon he will not be outmuscled by SRR and eek out a SD after an early lead.

[azania]

Lennox can turn up half drunk and he'd still beat Rocky. This is a very slow fighter with short stumpy arms against a giant who is faster and more athletic than he is. Rocky would not get close. He may punch Lennox a few times in the knackers and get DQ.

Just like he did to Rahman and Mccall first time around. Oh wait, he got caught because he under rated his opponents, not once but twice. Any sort of chance like that would have been exploited by Marciano.

Archie Moore said the one mistake he made when fighting Marciano was knocking him down in the first round, because it "just made him mad!".

Apologies, I did not respond fully.

No chance Rocky would get close to Lewis to land those punches. However bad they were, Rahman and McCall at least had height, reach and faster upper body movement to me able to get in place for the shot. I see a Lewis Rocky fight similar to the Tua fight but easier for Lewis.

Az, I understand your point perfectly and there is good logic to it. I just believe that Rocky is hard done by and people do not take into account that he was a fighter through and through. He always found a way to win and we all admit that he didn't cherry pick his opponents, fighting anyone who was put in front of him. I believe Lewis would have found him far more of a handful than an over the hill Tyson.

I've always said that he fought the best available. Its just that the best available was not that good.

An over the hill Tyson is a good comparison. Tyson even then had more movement and probably menace that Rocky ever possessed.

[Gordy]

Sugar Ray Robinson is the best boxer of all time. Even Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard said he was better and that he inspired them so who are we to argue? Thats not to say Sugar Ray Robinson could beat Ali in a match. The weight difference is too much. Ali was a heavyweight and Robinson was more of a middleweight. But this is where the phrase pound for pound comes from. If Robinson and Ali were the same size then Robinson would win. What a fight that would be! Sugar Ray Robinson and Ali are the number one and two boxers of all time. Im not sure where Sugar Ray Leonard would rank but I would rank Hagler higher because he beat him when they fought. Sugar Ray Leonard got a terrible decision though thanks to the judges. Sugar Ray Robinson would beat both Hagler and Sugar Ray robinson but they would be great fights. What a shame they werent around at the same time!

[Gordy]

Apologies, that should read Sugar Ray Robinson would beat Sugar Ray Leonard of course!

[superflyweight]

Gordy is here! The sheer scale of his and Az's wummery is too much I fear and this thread is about to explode and will soon resemble a prolapsed bum!

[Imperial Ghosty]

Gavilan wasn't in the class of Duran and hearns, of course he wasn't. Robinson didn't come close to losing at welterweight which isn't true of Leonard, anyone losing to an albeit great in Duran at welterweight isn't going to be a huge favourite over Robinson.

[Imperial Ghosty]

Mods, why not just ban him?

[fearlessBamber]

Mods, why not just ban him?

For what ? Stirring up debate and disagreeing with you?

[azania]

Gordy is here! The sheer scale of his and Az's wummery is too much I fear and this thread is about to explode and will soon resemble a prolapsed bum!

Just because I believe Rocky is grossly over rated means I'm wumming. Bob Mee had Archie Moore as 2nd ATG. Was he wumming?

[azania]

Gavilan wasn't in the class of Duran and hearns, of course he wasn't. Robinson didn't come close to losing at welterweight which isn't true of Leonard, anyone losing to an albeit great in Duran at welterweight isn't going to be a huge favourite over Robinson.

Please tell me where winning via SD means a huge favourite?

[azania]

Mods, why not just ban him?

Grow a pair will you for goodness sake.

[azania]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion ghosty!

Up until they start to disagree with him.

[azania]

Gavilan wasn't in the class of Duran and hearns, of course he wasn't. Robinson didn't come close to losing at welterweight which isn't true of Leonard, anyone losing to an albeit great in Duran at welterweight isn't going to be a huge favourite over Robinson.

I can come with the same nonsense. SRR lost to many decent MW. SRL beat one of the best ever.

We are talking about 2 exceptional boxers here. I know its sacrilegious to place SRR at anywhere but #1. But who cares. For me SRL is the best ever.

[Imperial Ghosty]

Debate is fine but when it descends into whining and insults it becomes tiresome and pointless.

[Imperial Ghosty]

We're not exactly going to have them fighting at middleweight are we? As per usual you're twisting your own argument as you often proclaim hagler a clear winner over Leonard. Then again eating Leonard higher is another clear attempt at being deliberately contrarian.

[azania]

Debate is fine but when it descends into whining and insults it becomes tiresome and pointless.

Who is insulting who? More to the point, who have I insulted? You have made some vile accusations which when asked to clarify and justify, you ran. Now grow a pair.

[fearlessBamber]

Well I think we've gone from the ridiculous to the reasonable. I watched the welterweight Leonard with awe as a child in the 1980's. When he schooled Hagler in 1987 none of my class mates could believe it. Here was a fighter capable of anything who had it all.

Could he beat the greatest of them all ? I would not bet against it, but SRR rightfully ranks above him in terms of legacy.

[azania]

We're not exactly going to have them fighting at middleweight are we? As per usual you're twisting your own argument as you often proclaim hagler a clear winner over Leonard. Then again eating Leonard higher is another clear attempt at being deliberately contrarian.

Did SRR fight anyone as good as Hagler after coming off a 5 year lay off? I had Hagler winning by a couple of rounds. But that is irrelevant. The fact that SRL stood with him and ran him that close is telling.

I am not going down the road you want of me putting down SRR.

If you get upset when the oldies are debated I suggest you dont read it.

[azania]

I didn't run at all, you are a racist bigot who bases opinions racial politics. White America, uncle tons etc. show you for what you are.

Mods can you tell this fool to calm down and apologise for this nasty accusation.

Thanks

[azania]

Well I think we've gone from the ridiculous to the reasonable. I watched the welterweight Leonard with awe as a child in the 1980's. When he schooled Hagler in 1987 none of my class mates could believe it. Here was a fighter capable of anything who had it all.

Could he beat the greatest of them all ? I would not bet against it, but SRR rightfully ranks above him in terms of legacy.

Schooled Hagler?

It was a SD and could have gone either way. Hugh MvElvenny had Marvin winning.

[Imperial Ghosty]

I don't get upset at all just don't see on what basis Leonard ranks higher. Beating fullmer, Olson and basilio after retirement is a pretty good achievement as is running maxim very close

[azania]

I don't get upset at all just don't see on what basis Leonard ranks higher. Beating fullmer, Olson and basilio after retirement is a pretty good achievement as is running maxim very close

Its a fantastic achievement. Who is saying otherwise?

Why are you such an ass anyway? Just askin'.

[Rowley]

I didn't run at all, you are a racist bigot who bases opinions racial politics. White America, uncle tons etc. show you for what you are.

Mods can you tell this fool to calm down and apologise for this nasty accusation.

Thanks

Well I did delete the comment but given you chose to quote it rather than trust us to do our job it does somewhat render my hard work slightly pointless. However faint heart ne'er won fair maid, so this goes for Ghosty Az and anyone and everyone else:

Debate the subect (whatever that may be at the minute) nicely, cut out the personal stuff and references to race or I will lock the thread and in all likelihood ban some people, it has often been said to me I am not the most even handed or reasonable of folk at my sunnier moments, given this is not exactly one of those sunny moments it probably prudent to heed this advice. Many thanks

[Imperial Ghosty]

Me an ass, that's rich coming from you az.

[fearlessBamber]

Well I think we've gone from the ridiculous to the reasonable. I watched the welterweight Leonard with awe as a child in the 1980's. When he schooled Hagler in 1987 none of my class mates could believe it. Here was a fighter capable of anything who had it all.

Could he beat the greatest of them all ? I would not bet against it, but SRR rightfully ranks above him in terms of legacy.

Schooled Hagler?

It was a SD and could have gone either way. Hugh MvElvenny had Marvin winning.

I had it wide for Leonard and was a big Hagler fan - think I usually score it about 8-4. For me Leonard controlled the action throughout: even in the rounds he lost.

[azania]

I didn't run at all, you are a racist bigot who bases opinions racial politics. White America, uncle tons etc. show you for what you are.

Mods can you tell this fool to calm down and apologise for this nasty accusation.

Thanks

Well I did delete the comment but given you chose to quote it rather than trust us to do our job it does somewhat render my hard work slightly pointless. However faint heart ne'er won fair maid, so this goes for Ghosty Az and anyone and everyone else:

Debate the subect (whatever that may be at the minute) nicely, cut out the personal stuff and references to race or I will lock the thread and in all likelihood ban some people, it has often been said to me I am not the most even handed or reasonable of folk at my sunnier moments, given this is not exactly one of those sunny moments it probably prudent to heed this advice. Many thanks

You can edit posts. Mine gets edited all the time on the athletics and football boards

[azania]

Well I think we've gone from the ridiculous to the reasonable. I watched the welterweight Leonard with awe as a child in the 1980's. When he schooled Hagler in 1987 none of my class mates could believe it. Here was a fighter capable of anything who had it all.

Could he beat the greatest of them all ? I would not bet against it, but SRR rightfully ranks above him in terms of legacy.

Schooled Hagler?

It was a SD and could have gone either way. Hugh MvElvenny had Marvin winning.

I had it wide for Hagler and was a big Hagler fan - think I usually score it about 8-4. For me Leonard controlled the action throughout: even in the rounds he lost.

You had it for Hagler yet SRL schooled him or you had it for SRL?

Anyway SRL cleverly stole the rounds in the eyes of the judges by fighting in the last 30 seconds. He threw the eye catching combos whereas Marvin did the more solid work.

[Rowley]

I didn't run at all, you are a racist bigot who bases opinions racial politics. White America, uncle tons etc. show you for what you are.

Mods can you tell this fool to calm down and apologise for this nasty accusation.

Thanks

Well I did delete the comment but given you chose to quote it rather than trust us to do our job it does somewhat render my hard work slightly pointless. However faint heart ne'er won fair maid, so this goes for Ghosty Az and anyone and everyone else:

Debate the subect (whatever that may be at the minute) nicely, cut out the personal stuff and references to race or I will lock the thread and in all likelihood ban some people, it has often been said to me I am not the most even handed or reasonable of folk at my sunnier moments, given this is not exactly one of those sunny moments it probably prudent to heed this advice. Many thanks

You can edit posts. Mine gets edited all the time on the athletics and football boards

Or alternaitvely and I'm just kind of blue sky thinking, brainstorming, no wrong ideas, coming at this out of leftfield etc on this you could all speak to each other like adults and turn the other cheek when provoked so I would not have to do any editing, deleting, red penning or banning and could perhaps contribute to the boards occasionally as a boxing fan. But like I say I'm just throwing ideas into the pool seeing which one does the backstroke.

[ShahenshahG]

I think youve gone round the bend Rowley - which is just as well as I get the feeling Waingro may test the waters once again.

[azania]

Why should I be the one to turn the other cheek? Not in my nature. Those who instigate the abuse hurling sport should be the ones to get reprimanded. Are you sure you're not a Tory?

[superflyweight]

Gordy is here! The sheer scale of his and Az's wummery is too much I fear and this thread is about to explode and will soon resemble a prolapsed bum!

Just because I believe Rocky is grossly over rated means I'm wumming. Bob Mee had Archie Moore as 2nd ATG. Was he wumming?

You've admitted that you were wumming by mentioning Audley. I'm afraid that then casts doubts over everything you've said. If I were you I'd prefer if everyone did think I was a wum. The alternative is an obtuse simpleton who is fundamentally unable to argue a point without exaggeration and without being disingenuous. And with that, I am done with this collective bashing of our heads against a brick wall.

[Rowley]

Why should I be the one to turn the other cheek? Not in my nature. Those who instigate the abuse hurling sport should be the ones to get reprimanded. Are you sure you're not a Tory?

Az whether this is fair or not I am giving you a straight choice, either turn the other cheek, use the foe button or I'll ban you. I have neither the time or inclination to work out who started anything or why, all I know is on ninety percent of the threads that cause me hassle on here you are bang in the middle of it.

Oh and while I'm at it if you call me a tory once more you are banned and since I know that is not fair I suggest you take it up with Adam.

[azania]

Gordy is here! The sheer scale of his and Az's wummery is too much I fear and this thread is about to explode and will soon resemble a prolapsed bum!

Just because I believe Rocky is grossly over rated means I'm wumming. Bob Mee had Archie Moore as 2nd ATG. Was he wumming?

You've admitted that you were wumming by mentioning Audley. I'm afraid that then casts doubts over everything you've said. If I were you I'd prefer if everyone did think I was a wum. The alternative is an obtuse simpleton who is fundamentally unable to argue a point without exaggeration and without being disingenuous. And with that, I am done with this collective bashing of our heads against a brick wall.

Not exactly wumming when you throw some bones into the shark tank. But look at how I phrased the Audley issue.

My position on Rocky has been clear from day 1. Over rated, crude plodder who benefited from being the best out of a worse than rubbish bunch. 5 years earlier or later he would just be a footnote.

[TheMackemMawler]

I can't believe that for a brief moment Marciano Vs (insert name) turned into Isaac Newton Vs Post-Grads. I love it!!

I’m about to be dragged into it…

It will have taken Isaac ages to refine his Laws of Motion..... It takes a school kid an hour. Knowing stuff means nothing.

Many Post-Grads studying the relevant fields know everything Newton knew, or at least documented…. plus more! They may not be visionaries, but are they cleverer? Hahaha! What a stupid question!!

Intelligence is intangible it transcends definition thus it is beyond quantification.

[azania]

Why should I be the one to turn the other cheek? Not in my nature. Those who instigate the abuse hurling sport should be the ones to get reprimanded. Are you sure you're not a Tory?

Az whether this is fair or not I am giving you a straight choice, either turn the other cheek, use the foe button or I'll ban you. I have neither the time or inclination to work out who started anything or why, all I know is on ninety percent of the threads that cause me hassle on here you are bang in the middle of it.

Oh and while I'm at it if you call me a tory once more you are banned and since I know that is not fair I suggest you take it up with Adam.

Rubbish rowley. I will not turn the other cheek when abused by others. Why should I. Don't you think it is best that the abuse doesn't start? Look at my posting history here. I have never once instigated any insults. Why not ask the others to post with a modicum of manners?

My views are mine. Debate them free some insults. You don't have to respect me. It doesn't bother me. I have had my children insulted also (not on this thread). Why? Because I have different views from what is considered the norm.

If you want to ban me for being insulted and responding to it, yet leave those who do the insulting, feel free. Your choice.

[Rowley]

I have not left anyone free to insult people, if you read my initial thread I told both people who I had seen insulting people to calm it, I am not on here all the time and as such have neither the time or inclination to go through 11 pages to see who started it, users on here have a responsibility to help the moderation. I have asked you on more than one occasion to use the foe button, you have refused with no decent reason being given for your refusal, thus leaving me to assume you either do not want to help us or enjoy trading insults.

Similarly I have made it quite clear on more than one occasion I find the suggestion I am a tory offensive but you have chosen to repeat it at least three times, it has sod all to do with boxing, is inaccurate and you know it offends me, what is that other than a blatant attempt to wind someone up?

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