The free-for-all "Cleverly at HW/Calzaghe would beat Wlad/Rocky Marciano was Rubbish/Mimsy" Thread

[Boxtthis]

First topic message reminder :

Just read this on boxing scene:

http://www.boxingscene.com/team-cleverly-nathan-wants-fight-heavyweight--55352

Clev's dad saying that he's filling out and wants to fight as a HW one day. Could be the lightest punching HW in history! I wonder if there's any nurses in the HW division?

C'mon Nathan, how about you fight someone decent at LHW first? His record as a title holder is becoming embarrassing.

In light of Gordy's chat I've changed the title of the thread so that it gives a more accurate representation of it's content!

[Rowley]

Putting aside the ridiculousness of the idea Calzaghe could realistically move up and win at heavyweight this debate does tend to overlook one fly in the ointment and that is the fact that Wlad is actually quite good. Whilst his safety first approach may not be to everyone’s taste it does not mean he is without skill, has far better movement and footwork than a guy his size has the right to have, a genuinely hurtful jab, excellent conditioning, superb fitness and the discipline to understand and stick to a game plan that rivals most that have gone before him.

The facts that the bulk of the rest of the division are rubbish or incapable of getting him out of his game plan should not be confused with any of the above being true about him.

[Union Cane]

You have overlooked that fact that Wlad is a lumbering Russian ox, Rowley.

[Seanusarrilius]

Putting aside the ridiculousness of the idea Calzaghe could realistically move up and win at heavyweight this debate does tend to overlook one fly in the ointment and that is the fact that Wlad is actually quite good. Whilst his safety first approach may not be to everyone’s taste it does not mean he is without skill, has far better movement and footwork than a guy his size has the right to have, a genuinely hurtful jab, excellent conditioning, superb fitness and the discipline to understand and stick to a game plan that rivals most that have gone before him.

The facts that the bulk of the rest of the division are rubbish or incapable of getting him out of his game plan should not be confused with any of the above being true about him.

I think the fact he is as dull as dishwater affects people's opinions on him. It shouldn't matter, but bottom line is he doesn't inspire

[Rowley]

Very true Sean but the same was said of Holmes and Lewis at various points in their career, does not change the fact they are good fighters.

[Seanusarrilius]

Very true Sean but the same was said of Holmes and Lewis at various points in their career, does not change the fact they are good fighters.

Excellent champs, all of them. Wlad will ge this dues in a few years, once he is retired and Fury is unified champ

[TopHat24/7]

Gordy's a WUM guys. Just check out his Euro 2012 team of the tournament if you want proof.

https://www.606v2.com/t31923-team-of-the-tournament

Rooney?

Whatever, Benson. You probably think that the Pope is a catholic!

Still, it's good to see that there are at least a couple on this thread who, somehow, aren't bored of the Gord just yet.

In fairness, Hart aside, it's only the English players I'd disagree with there.....

[J.Benson II]

Gordy's a WUM guys. Just check out his Euro 2012 team of the tournament if you want proof.

https://www.606v2.com/t31923-team-of-the-tournament

Rooney?

Whatever, Benson. You probably think that the Pope is a catholic!

Still, it's good to see that there are at least a couple on this thread who, somehow, aren't bored of the Gord just yet.

In fairness, Hart aside, it's only the English players I'd disagree with there.....

I agree that Terry, Johnson and Gerrard had good tournaments but to include even 3 players from a team that generally failed to inspire is rather bizarre, especially in front of others who played for teams that did.

Gordy had 5 English players and only 3 Spainish ones.

[TopHat24/7]

I thought Gerrard had a grossly over-rated tournament, looked ok but noting more in 2 group games and that was it. Terry summarised why England will never win another major international tournament. And shouldn't have been there in the first place.

[J.Benson II]

I thought Gerrard had a grossly over-rated tournament, looked ok but noting more in 2 group games and that was it. Terry summarised why England will never win another major international tournament. And shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Problem is the British media will always hype up a good performance as a great one and a poor performance as an awful one.
Most of the English players had a solid tournament, in the sense that they played the best that their ability would provide. Despite a QF and unbeaten finish, I don't think any really would merit a place in the Tournament XI.
Gordy obviously thinks otherwise.

[Seanusarrilius]

take this crap to the football thread. Listening to fellow Brits talk football is my idea of hell.

[TopHat24/7]

Sorry, bring back Gordy talking about Calzaghe cleaning up the HW division.....

[Seanusarrilius]

Anything but football.

[Super D Boon]

I think Cleverly should fight Karpency again. He didn't manage to knock him out so has a lot to prove!

[Gordy]

Putting aside the ridiculousness of the idea Calzaghe could realistically move up and win at heavyweight this debate does tend to overlook one fly in the ointment and that is the fact that Wlad is actually quite good. Whilst his safety first approach may not be to everyone’s taste it does not mean he is without skill, has far better movement and footwork than a guy his size has the right to have, a genuinely hurtful jab, excellent conditioning, superb fitness and the discipline to understand and stick to a game plan that rivals most that have gone before him.

The facts that the bulk of the rest of the division are rubbish or incapable of getting him out of his game plan should not be confused with any of the above being true about him.

Not true unless you believe the media hype. This is widely regarded as the worst era for heavyweights of all time. Hardly anyone even knows who the champion is not that they would care once they found out. Ask any hardcore boxing follower and they will tell you this is the worst heavyweight era. Even the caption on this website for boxing refers to how bad it it. Its just stations like Sky that try to pretend its not to get viewers. The current heavyweight champion is just a big lump. He has very little actual boxing talent or technique. The giant that fought Haye could barely move. Haye is a very average boxer himself thats why he lost. How he beat the first giant he fought I do not know as all he did was run away. The judges had their glasses on by the time he fought the second giant and Haye lost because all he did was run away again. Haye was not a heavyweight himself he was from a smaller division but saw he could make a mint and fool the public into thinking he was the next Ali so he moved up to heavyweight. Calzaghe was a miles better boxer to Haye in almost every way. He was unbeaten over his whole career and was a proper great of the sport. Like Haye, he could have put on a bit of muscle and he would have boxed rings around the useless heavyweight we have around today. Calzaghe had to undergo strict dieting to fight at the weight he did so he would simply not need to do that and fight at his more natural weight. He would have to be careful he did not get hit with a lucky punch but his speed would mean he could just box and move around them. Dont get me wrong, he would not be able to be great heavyweights but you are being conned if you believe the heavyweights now are any use whatsoever.

[Gordy]

Gordy's a WUM guys. Just check out his Euro 2012 team of the tournament if you want proof.

https://www.606v2.com/t31923-team-of-the-tournament

Rooney?

Whatever, Benson. You probably think that the Pope is a catholic!

Still, it's good to see that there are at least a couple on this thread who, somehow, aren't bored of the Gord just yet.

In fairness, Hart aside, it's only the English players I'd disagree with there.....

I agree that Terry, Johnson and Gerrard had good tournaments but to include even 3 players from a team that generally failed to inspire is rather bizarre, especially in front of others who played for teams that did.

Gordy had 5 English players and only 3 Spainish ones.

I didnt watch every match but watched every England game and I oncluded the players I had seen. There are more England players because they defended better than Spain. The Spanish defenders never had to do much defending because the midfielders held the ball all the time. You will see I included the Spanish midfielders. Englands midfield was bad apart from Gerrard so their defence had to work alot harder. Did you see the Italy game? Englands defence was magnificent to hold them out. I doubt the Sanish defence would keep a clean sheet if they had Englands midfield in front of them. Rooney did not do too badly he scored a goal and worked hard. Not that many strikers in the Euros had a great tournament anyway.

[6oldenbhoy]

why didn't Calzaghe step up to fight them?

[TopHat24/7]

Putting aside the ridiculousness of the idea Calzaghe could realistically move up and win at heavyweight this debate does tend to overlook one fly in the ointment and that is the fact that Wlad is actually quite good. Whilst his safety first approach may not be to everyone’s taste it does not mean he is without skill, has far better movement and footwork than a guy his size has the right to have, a genuinely hurtful jab, excellent conditioning, superb fitness and the discipline to understand and stick to a game plan that rivals most that have gone before him.

The facts that the bulk of the rest of the division are rubbish or incapable of getting him out of his game plan should not be confused with any of the above being true about him.

Not true unless you believe the media hype. This is widely regarded as the worst era for heavyweights of all time. Hardly anyone even knows who the champion is not that they would care once they found out. Ask any hardcore boxing follower and they will tell you this is the worst heavyweight era. Even the caption on this website for boxing refers to how bad it it. Its just stations like Sky that try to pretend its not to get viewers. The current heavyweight champion is just a big lump. He has very little actual boxing talent or technique. The giant that fought Haye could barely move. Haye is a very average boxer himself thats why he lost. How he beat the first giant he fought I do not know as all he did was run away. The judges had their glasses on by the time he fought the second giant and Haye lost because all he did was run away again. Haye was not a heavyweight himself he was from a smaller division but saw he could make a mint and fool the public into thinking he was the next Ali so he moved up to heavyweight. Calzaghe was a miles better boxer to Haye in almost every way. He was unbeaten over his whole career and was a proper great of the sport. Like Haye, he could have put on a bit of muscle and he would have boxed rings around the useless heavyweight we have around today. Calzaghe had to undergo strict dieting to fight at the weight he did so he would simply not need to do that and fight at his more natural weight. He would have to be careful he did not get hit with a lucky punch but his speed would mean he could just box and move around them. Dont get me wrong, he would not be able to be great heavyweights but you are being conned if you believe the heavyweights now are any use whatsoever.

Who between Tunney and Louis was better than either K-bot Gordy?

[BoxingFan88]

Wow Cleverly takes a beating on this website...

[TopHat24/7]

I Gordy

[Union Cane]

Gordy is my favourite. Clearly an alias, but who is it? My money is on Rowley...

[azania]

Ease up on the teasing lads.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Who said I was teasing.....

[azania]

Whose talking about you?

[Rowley]

Gordy is my favourite. Clearly an alias, but who is it? My money is on Rowley...

I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted. On the whole I think I am flattered, to think I could write comedy of this level is truly a compliment, Calzaghe to beat Wlad, its nothing short of genius.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Be a good name for a moviethat Az!!,,,with say Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan in!!

[Rowley]

Putting aside the ridiculousness of the idea Calzaghe could realistically move up and win at heavyweight this debate does tend to overlook one fly in the ointment and that is the fact that Wlad is actually quite good. Whilst his safety first approach may not be to everyone’s taste it does not mean he is without skill, has far better movement and footwork than a guy his size has the right to have, a genuinely hurtful jab, excellent conditioning, superb fitness and the discipline to understand and stick to a game plan that rivals most that have gone before him.

The facts that the bulk of the rest of the division are rubbish or incapable of getting him out of his game plan should not be confused with any of the above being true about him.

Not true unless you believe the media hype. This is widely regarded as the worst era for heavyweights of all time. Hardly anyone even knows who the champion is not that they would care once they found out. Ask any hardcore boxing follower and they will tell you this is the worst heavyweight era. Even the caption on this website for boxing refers to how bad it it. Its just stations like Sky that try to pretend its not to get viewers. The current heavyweight champion is just a big lump. He has very little actual boxing talent or technique. The giant that fought Haye could barely move. Haye is a very average boxer himself thats why he lost. How he beat the first giant he fought I do not know as all he did was run away. The judges had their glasses on by the time he fought the second giant and Haye lost because all he did was run away again. Haye was not a heavyweight himself he was from a smaller division but saw he could make a mint and fool the public into thinking he was the next Ali so he moved up to heavyweight. Calzaghe was a miles better boxer to Haye in almost every way. He was unbeaten over his whole career and was a proper great of the sport. Like Haye, he could have put on a bit of muscle and he would have boxed rings around the useless heavyweight we have around today. Calzaghe had to undergo strict dieting to fight at the weight he did so he would simply not need to do that and fight at his more natural weight. He would have to be careful he did not get hit with a lucky punch but his speed would mean he could just box and move around them. Dont get me wrong, he would not be able to be great heavyweights but you are being conned if you believe the heavyweights now are any use whatsoever.

So you disprove my theory about Wlad being decent by spending a paragraph telling me Haye is rubbish, as far as arguments go that is like trying to disprove the existence of god by providing a recipe for Beef Wellington.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Beef Wellington?????

People eat out of wellies over here???.....

No wonder you lad behind!!!!!!!

[SharkSoul]

With all due respect Gordy, no offence intended but listening to you talk about JC gaining a HW strap is like taking a terminally ill pet to the vets and looking it in the eye whilst it takes it's final breath and attempts to cling onto life.

Regarding the footie, if you had to pick a XI team prior to the tournament, how many England players would you have in it? Exactly.

[Rowley]

You need to get out more Truss, such things are rarely off the menu in the restaurants of Rotherham mate.

[TRUSSMAN66]

I do...I don't even know where Rotherham is!!!

Some cheap back water place..If your posting is anything to go by!!

[Rowley]

It's a remarkably good guess that

[Gordy]

Putting aside the ridiculousness of the idea Calzaghe could realistically move up and win at heavyweight this debate does tend to overlook one fly in the ointment and that is the fact that Wlad is actually quite good. Whilst his safety first approach may not be to everyone’s taste it does not mean he is without skill, has far better movement and footwork than a guy his size has the right to have, a genuinely hurtful jab, excellent conditioning, superb fitness and the discipline to understand and stick to a game plan that rivals most that have gone before him.

The facts that the bulk of the rest of the division are rubbish or incapable of getting him out of his game plan should not be confused with any of the above being true about him.

Not true unless you believe the media hype. This is widely regarded as the worst era for heavyweights of all time. Hardly anyone even knows who the champion is not that they would care once they found out. Ask any hardcore boxing follower and they will tell you this is the worst heavyweight era. Even the caption on this website for boxing refers to how bad it it. Its just stations like Sky that try to pretend its not to get viewers. The current heavyweight champion is just a big lump. He has very little actual boxing talent or technique. The giant that fought Haye could barely move. Haye is a very average boxer himself thats why he lost. How he beat the first giant he fought I do not know as all he did was run away. The judges had their glasses on by the time he fought the second giant and Haye lost because all he did was run away again. Haye was not a heavyweight himself he was from a smaller division but saw he could make a mint and fool the public into thinking he was the next Ali so he moved up to heavyweight. Calzaghe was a miles better boxer to Haye in almost every way. He was unbeaten over his whole career and was a proper great of the sport. Like Haye, he could have put on a bit of muscle and he would have boxed rings around the useless heavyweight we have around today. Calzaghe had to undergo strict dieting to fight at the weight he did so he would simply not need to do that and fight at his more natural weight. He would have to be careful he did not get hit with a lucky punch but his speed would mean he could just box and move around them. Dont get me wrong, he would not be able to be great heavyweights but you are being conned if you believe the heavyweights now are any use whatsoever.

So you disprove my theory about Wlad being decent by spending a paragraph telling me Haye is rubbish, as far as arguments go that is like trying to disprove the existence of god by providing a recipe for Beef Wellington.

No I am saying that all the heavyweights are poor these days. The media wanted you to believe that Haye was a great boxer but he wasnt. The reason he was beaten was not because the other big heavyweight was any good but because Haye himself is a very average boxer who just ran away. That doesnt make the other heavyweight a good boxer. He is poor. His size and strength is all he has going for him but watch his technique and boxing ability. Its rubbish and he is extremelly slow. Better boxers would take advantage of this because they have bags more ability. This is why I think Calzaghe knows he would beat them. He can spot that they are useless. Heavyweights like Marciano, Frazier and Ali were not all that big and were smaller than the giants around now but they would have a field day smashing through todays lot.

[eddyfightfan]

its a poor mans sheffield

[TRUSSMAN66]

Haye is a well schooled boxer......

You don't have to have a great technique or "Boxing" ability...

Hamed didn't have much of either yet he beat well schooled fighters like Boom boom and Kelley!!

Joe Louis didn't have much either!!

What you need is something that works!!!

Tate was better schooled that Nunn and lost 9-0.........

[TopHat24/7]

Putting aside the ridiculousness of the idea Calzaghe could realistically move up and win at heavyweight this debate does tend to overlook one fly in the ointment and that is the fact that Wlad is actually quite good. Whilst his safety first approach may not be to everyone’s taste it does not mean he is without skill, has far better movement and footwork than a guy his size has the right to have, a genuinely hurtful jab, excellent conditioning, superb fitness and the discipline to understand and stick to a game plan that rivals most that have gone before him.

The facts that the bulk of the rest of the division are rubbish or incapable of getting him out of his game plan should not be confused with any of the above being true about him.

Not true unless you believe the media hype. This is widely regarded as the worst era for heavyweights of all time. Hardly anyone even knows who the champion is not that they would care once they found out. Ask any hardcore boxing follower and they will tell you this is the worst heavyweight era. Even the caption on this website for boxing refers to how bad it it. Its just stations like Sky that try to pretend its not to get viewers. The current heavyweight champion is just a big lump. He has very little actual boxing talent or technique. The giant that fought Haye could barely move. Haye is a very average boxer himself thats why he lost. How he beat the first giant he fought I do not know as all he did was run away. The judges had their glasses on by the time he fought the second giant and Haye lost because all he did was run away again. Haye was not a heavyweight himself he was from a smaller division but saw he could make a mint and fool the public into thinking he was the next Ali so he moved up to heavyweight. Calzaghe was a miles better boxer to Haye in almost every way. He was unbeaten over his whole career and was a proper great of the sport. Like Haye, he could have put on a bit of muscle and he would have boxed rings around the useless heavyweight we have around today. Calzaghe had to undergo strict dieting to fight at the weight he did so he would simply not need to do that and fight at his more natural weight. He would have to be careful he did not get hit with a lucky punch but his speed would mean he could just box and move around them. Dont get me wrong, he would not be able to be great heavyweights but you are being conned if you believe the heavyweights now are any use whatsoever.

Who between Tunney and Louis was better than either K-bot Gordy?

[TRUSSMAN66]

I take it back...I'm responding to a guy who thinks Calzaghe wins the heavyweight crown...........

[azania]

Be a good name for a moviethat Az!!,,,with say Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan in!!

[eddyfightfan]

gordy, why is the division poorer than any other? i think wlad would trouble most heavyweights of any era, as would vitali (maybe not now). solis, haye, price, povetkin, wach, pulev and chambers are all more than just punchers and know how to box to some degree, most have good chins and power too.

then you have guys like arreroa, fury, adamek, shane cameron, boswell, airich and chisora who are good fighters, albeit not top level, but would still make great fights and can entertain.

you then have "the old guard" who can still give a decent test for a up and comer, guys like johnson, tua (i think), mccall, sprott, dimitrenko and chagaev who can still bang.

then theres the up and comers or relativly untested bunch, guys like helenius, striverne, tor hamer, perez, seth mitchell, deontay wilder, boystov, towers, charr or even a olympic winner from the games happening shortly.

added to this is a ended list of other journey men that are popular (fields, oquendo, mcdermott etc)

i think its a myth about the division been poor, its just the right fights arent happening.

[eddyfightfan]

he is indeed, and showed he can come through a rough patch in his last fight, another tick against his name, and seems to be the most focused and ambitious of the american heavyweight prospects.

[davidemore]

Nathan would get dusted, lol. What a joke.

[TopHat24/7]

would like to see Fury-Mitchell, interesting style match and a good test for both.

[TRUSSMAN66]

I've got a terrible feeling he's going to try and get a name off the back of the relic known as Hopkins!!!

It's Warren's way........Khan-Barrera!!!

[milkyboy]

jones won a heavy belt, toney did (admittedly against the same handpicked belt holder), so did byrd (who was a blown up middle that jc beat as an amateur).

whilst unlikely, its not so far fetched that jc could pick up a belt at heavy, but only if there was a ruiz type belt holder.

[eddyfightfan]

steve cunningham has stepped up as well to heavyweight.

i think wilder is fighting kerstan mansell next, a step in the right direction at least. all his other opponents have been a joke though. the fat guy he fought was ridiclous.

[John Bloody Wayne]

If he hasn't already been mentioned, Ezzard Charles started at middleweight and became the heavyweight champ. As in THE heavyweight champion of the world and beat a pretty good champion to do it.

Maybe a moot point as he was streets, sorry, several miles ahead of Calzaghe or Clevery in terms of ability.

[bhb001]

[quote="Gordy]

Im talking about Calzaghe before he retired of course, not the one in retirement now. He said himself he would have beaten the heavyweight champion back then so he more than confiedent enough. He is a much better fighter than the likes of David Haye or Audley Harrison and with a bit more muscle on him he would have more than enough talent to win there. [/quote]

Must be true then. It's not like a boxer to use hyperbole to sell a book at the end of their career

[Super D Boon]

Whether it's repeated or not Jones Jnr took on the very worst champion in Ruiz and wanted no part of Lennox Lewis whatsoever. When Jones Jnr was quizzed about who he might have fought had he stayed up at the weight he said Mike Tyson ffs!

[Gordy]

Whether it's repeated or not Jones Jnr took on the very worst champion in Ruiz and wanted no part of Lennox Lewis whatsoever. When Jones Jnr was quizzed about who he might have fought had he stayed up at the weight he said Mike Tyson ffs!

Jones would not have lasted a round with Lennox Lewis or Mike Tyson. Calzaghe was a better fighter than Jones in every way and I would not give him a chance of beating Lewis or Tyson either. The current heavyweights are a different matter. I think Calzaghe would beat the ones around now. I cant see Jones doing that, he was knocked out by smaller fighters.

[azania]

Whether it's repeated or not Jones Jnr took on the very worst champion in Ruiz and wanted no part of Lennox Lewis whatsoever. When Jones Jnr was quizzed about who he might have fought had he stayed up at the weight he said Mike Tyson ffs!

Jones would not have lasted a round with Lennox Lewis or Mike Tyson. Calzaghe was a better fighter than Jones in every way and I would not give him a chance of beating Lewis or Tyson either. The current heavyweights are a different matter. I think Calzaghe would beat the ones around now. I cant see Jones doing that, he was knocked out by smaller fighters.

Oh dear.

I suppose Trevor Berbick was a better fighter than Ali in every way also.

[Gordy]

Whether it's repeated or not Jones Jnr took on the very worst champion in Ruiz and wanted no part of Lennox Lewis whatsoever. When Jones Jnr was quizzed about who he might have fought had he stayed up at the weight he said Mike Tyson ffs!

Jones would not have lasted a round with Lennox Lewis or Mike Tyson. Calzaghe was a better fighter than Jones in every way and I would not give him a chance of beating Lewis or Tyson either. The current heavyweights are a different matter. I think Calzaghe would beat the ones around now. I cant see Jones doing that, he was knocked out by smaller fighters.

Oh dear.

I suppose Trevor Berbick was a better fighter than Ali in every way also.

I dont understand this point.

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