NZ vs. India at Hyderabad

First topic message reminder :

--So tomorrow starts more test match cricket.....
NZ hit some highs by drawing a series in Aus and holding SA to a creditable draw batting out 4 sessions.....
and then they hot a low losing rather tamely to WI in WI.....
the diffrence I believe between the high and the low was John Wright who they sacked.....
I saw they have some good left arm seamers, and Bracewell is a poor man's Vernon Philander with bat and ball.
In the absence of Vettori....Patel gets a break
Ross Taylor and McCullum are IPL stars and amply familiar with India.

--India is India......back to tigers at home and lambs abroad status after their dabble with status on top on the bac¨k of some overseas wins...courtey Ganguly and Gary Kirsten.

We have to see if even their tigers at home status is unchallenged with VVSL and Dravid gone , Sehwag slowed and Tendulkar not so profilic any more.

England should be monitoring India's new middle order batters very very closely.....who are likely to be Pujara, Kohli and Rahane....exposing these will be Eng's best chance towards a battle of equality later.

What few notice but Kirsten remarked.....India's ascent was on the back of celver use and almost an equal contribution from their seamers, even in home conditions.

Zaheer is the best exponent of reverse after Wasim Akram....and Yadav is as fast as any one in the world on his day......produces half a dozen wicket taking balls...inspite of being expensive.

Indian spinners are not in the quality of Kumble and Harbhajan ( at his prime) anymore......but the pitches will ensure thay are a handful.

The Indian XI will be following.....i do not know enouhg about the NZ team to list the possible XI.

1) Sehwag
2) Gambhir
3) Rahane...althouhg a school of thouhg believes hanae should open and Sehwag to bat in the middle order
4) Tendulkar
5) Pujara
6) Kohli
7) Dhoni
8) Ashwin
9) Zaheer
10) Ojha
11) Yadav

Pujara gets past 150......got in and making it count.
Dhoni as it appeared yesterday was camping for a long haul at the crease and might get a 100 and India 450 to 500.

JDizzle wrote:So when Pakistan lose 20 wickets for 400 and England lose 20 wickets for 330 it is the bowlers that cost us the match?

it was more like on 150-200 type pitches, on which English bowlers were conceding 300ish runs.
when the going gets tough and tight...although the whole team must step up.....the stronger department must step up more...whihc were the bowlers...for Eng...atleast on reputation until they went to UAE

They are a good bowling attack,

correction...they were reputed to be a good attack...

better than NZ even with Broad as he was against SA, and best against best England's attack dwarves NZ's.

Emotional support....overrides reason when you are a die-hard fan...and even gaping holes become visible quite a lot later.
Neverthless Eng will perform better in India...because they are more organized than the current NZ team.....have more hunger and intensity inspitre of not being much more on bowling talent.

*PS*...the only English bowler with talent comprarable to subcontinental spinners even in those conditions is Monty Panesar....who wasn't played in T1 in UAE and was dropped again in T2 in Lanka.
and he is still picking bucketful of wickets even in English conditions for his county

India's morning, good to see Pujara carrying on after getting his hundred. MSD too is back among the runs. India in a good position at 361-5. If they bat through the next session it will be very dificult for New Zealand to catch up.

On the topic of the bowling attacks of England and NZ, I would say I would give more credit to the NZ attack than is being done over here. Never suggesting the 2 attacks are at the level of parity, but NZ has got a decent attack, their pace bowling department is better than that of India. Boult is someone with massive potential, and although noone has mentioned him as yet and although he had a poor test in the West Indies, Chris (Fantom) Martin is a fine bowler, and I think he is better than Bresnan any day and isn't way below Broad. Swann vs Patel, sorry KP fan, there is no debate here, Swann hasn't been his usual self in the last couple of series, that can partly be explained due to his injury concerns. But he remains a mighty fine bowler capable of winning matches. Jitin Patel is an average spinner not even good enough to make the NZ first choice squad. He was brought in as Dan Vetori got injured and they needed some experience. Otherwise Nethula is their 2nd spinner. James Anderson, like any other cricketer is allowed to have an off series, the South Africa wasn't one where he was at his best, but he too is a superb bowler and at present there is noone who would come close to him within the NZ ranks.
But among the NZ bowlers, Bracewell has potential, and propperly managed, Southee could be a fine bowler one day particularly if the ball is swinging.

ball is stopping on to the bat.....as evident in Pujara's dismissal

Pujara goes at last, wicket for Patel, Caught by Franklin for a well crafted 159.

Dhoni might now start going for the bowling a bit more. But Ashwin is a more than capable bat, they have to first restart things a bit and then go.

Pujara had a bit of a go at Patel and was unable to clear long on. Early days, he will realize he needn't play such shots to get out when well set.

msp83 wrote:Dhoni might now start going for the bowling a bit more. But Ashwin is a more than capable bat, they have to first restart things a bit and then go.

ashwin...many think is more comptent technically than Dhoni and should be batting at No.7 ...especially overseas

Ball's not coming on to the bat.......and not easy to score runs.

It would be interesteing to see if Dhoini would be willing to encforce follow on...sthould the situation arise .

normally he is not very keen

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Monty is not a match winner against good sides though. Awful record in India. And has looked unthreatening in SL. Patel impressed me today.

a bit harsh on Monty. All spinners (foreign ones) have poor records in India so Monty's hardly an exception there. Patel impressed me today too, bowled much better than I thought he would, but didn't really look threatening (the wicket he got was a bit of a fluke TBH). I thought India would try to get after him more, but maybe they felt they were scoring quickly enough so didn't want to take the risks.

As for Taylor, usually when I say "very ordinary" I mean "rubbish, actually"

Boult has potential, but bowls too many loose deliveries yet. The shape he gets on the ball is interesting though (particularly in India). Bracewell is hit-and-miss for me, and I worry about his fitness levels if he cramps up in his 11th over. If the other bloke understood anything at all about cricket, he'd know it most certainly wasn't our bowlers letting us down this winter (no one made over 400 I believe)

TBF, Monty also has awful records in Sri Lanka and Australia.

Apart from that, agree with everything.

msp83 wrote:On the topic of the bowling attacks of England and NZ, I would say I would give more credit to the NZ attack than is being done over here. Never suggesting the 2 attacks are at the level of parity, but NZ has got a decent attack, their pace bowling department is better than that of India. Boult is someone with massive potential, and although noone has mentioned him as yet and although he had a poor test in the West Indies, Chris (Fantom) Martin is a fine bowler, and I think he is better than Bresnan any day and isn't way below Broad. Swann vs Patel, sorry KP fan, there is no debate here, Swann hasn't been his usual self in the last couple of series, that can partly be explained due to his injury concerns. But he remains a mighty fine bowler capable of winning matches. Jitin Patel is an average spinner not even good enough to make the NZ first choice squad. He was brought in as Dan Vetori got injured and they needed some experience. Otherwise Nethula is their 2nd spinner. James Anderson, like any other cricketer is allowed to have an off series, the South Africa wasn't one where he was at his best, but he too is a superb bowler and at present there is noone who would come close to him within the NZ ranks.
But among the NZ bowlers, Bracewell has potential, and propperly managed, Southee could be a fine bowler one day particularly if the ball is swinging.

Don't think Martin is anywhere near close to an in form Broad(In form Broad, not the one on show in the SA series) but I do agree that he is better than Bresnan. Finn and Onions are better though.

Apart from that, agreed

I have just put a poster on my ignore list.

Dhoni falls similar to Pujara....ball not coming on the bat and suddenly Patel's figures are looking as good as he has bowled...flight control and just a bit of spin.
Difficult to score runs now on the pitch where the ball is gripping and then stopping

Patel has bowled non stop from one end....and is an iindicator on indian pitches like these 2 spinners are required

India slowly moving towards that 450 mark. Good hand from Ashwin, played some good looking shots, think he has to trust Ojha a bit more now and take the available single.

I have always thought Chris Martin has been underrated as a bowler. He has taken 229 test wickets, leading a pretty average pace unit mostly(Bond missed more matches rather than he played), and even Dan Vetori hasn't been taking too many test wickets of late. Martin averages about 33 with a strike rate of 60. I would say not bad at all.

Ashwin gone for 37, stumped of Patel. Time for Yadav and Ojha to play their shots if they can. Wow, Yadav off the mark smashing one straight down the ground for 4.

Still 16 short of that 450 mark India, would be quite an achievement if they reach that though.

Yadav runout, but of comedy, but New Zealand have India allout for 438.

Patel..the not so great off spinner....set up a benchmark for Swann the greatest offpinner .........in his very first outing on D1 and D2 pitch

not an inch of swing so far for zaheer or yadav..although yadav hitting 90+

Yadav bowling with decent pace, but no great accuracy. Zaheer bowling accurately but not able to find any swing so far. The real test for NZ of course will be when the spinners come on, givent the pitch is already showing some assistance.

Ojha comes in early and picks a wkt immediately.......flight.....dip..and stopped a bit of the pitch and beats the batssman in drive.....very similar to Dhoni dismissal.

not an easy pitch to score runs on

seamers do well in India on eitehr wintry mornings in north india with the new ball in the first hour....or when the ball is more than 30 overs old...rversing it.

Turn and bounce for Ojha with the new ball...on the evidence of that one delivers......NZ chances have vansihed

msp83 wrote:I have always thought Chris Martin has been underrated as a bowler. He has taken 229 test wickets, leading a pretty average pace unit mostly(Bond missed more matches rather than he played), and even Dan Vetori hasn't been taking too many test wickets of late. Martin averages about 33 with a strike rate of 60. I would say not bad at all.

Martin's done pretty well over a long career - and to be sitting at 15th on the ICC rankings given the limited amount of test cricket NZ gets to play isn't bad (Finn is 16th for contrast. Anderson is 5th, Broad 8th, Swann 13th, Vettori 17th and Bresnan 20th).

10 overs into the inning and spinners from both ends...and 2 down

NZ would have been more balanced had they had Vettori in place of Frankiln.

If Eng are watching they better start thinking how they will fit two spinners in the XI

Not very responsible there from McCullum, he was bowled by Zaheer in the first over only to be saved because the bails didn't come off, but in Ojha's first over he wanted to take the attack to the spinner and was caught at cover. The ball is already doing a bit for the spinner, NZ needed their most senior batsman to give himself time and then go but he didn't seem to have put his thinking cap on.

Ashwin into bowl, and Guptill gone first ball, he was the best NZ batter on display in the West Indies.

there is turn..and there is bounce.....the last ball of oja and ashwin's first over......turned and jumped...the kind of pitch dhoni wanted and the curator has delivered

Kane Williamson scored a debut ton against India didn't he? Lots of responsibility on him and the NZ captain Ross Taylor here, with the 2 Indian spinners tasting early success their confidence would be high, and NZ concerns about facing up to them would have gone up as well.

KP_fan wrote:10 overs into the inning and spinners from both ends...and 2 down

NZ would have been more balanced had they had Vettori in place of Frankiln.

If Eng are watching they better start thinking how they will fit two spinners in the XI

Vettori's injured so we might as well have wished for a 30-yo Hadlee to open the bowling. And over his career Vettori's usually been more effective on pitches that don't turn - he gets his wickets by deceiving in flight rather than off the pitch.

Taylor caught low down at leg slip? Gut feeling is he caught it but unfortunately on the best replay Ross Taylor's foot is in the way of the ball. On another angle the short leg fielder is in the way, and I don't think you can give that out just on the replay from behind.

well he's been given out?! A bit surprised by that decision I must say...

Well indeed looks like a lively pitch, there is rough, and there is sharp bounce from those when the ball lands there. Makes for good viewing!.

Taylor gone!, another one for Ashwin!!.

when th ball turns so much...and so sharply...and with so much bounce...that the it take the inside edge of top order batsmen......like Ashwin's both wickets...then it is very, very dificult for the batsmen..indication of an almost impossible pitch to survive

I think the 3rd umpire probably said "I can't help you, over to you guys" which is fair enough, there just wasn't a TV angle which told you anything. The on-field umpires clearly thought it was out, so gave it. Fair enough. We certainly haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise.

Pitch really ripping, NZ will do well to score 200 from here.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

KP_fan wrote:10 overs into the inning and spinners from both ends...and 2 down

NZ would have been more balanced had they had Vettori in place of Frankiln.

If Eng are watching they better start thinking how they will fit two spinners in the XI

Vettori's injured so we might as well have wished for a 30-yo Hadlee to open the bowling. And over his career Vettori's usually been more effective on pitches that don't turn - he gets his wickets by deceiving in flight rather than off the pitch.

is it an injury that has completely indisposed him or a niggle that doesn't allow him to play with full freedom?
I understood it was a groin strain of the second categry...and even like that he might have been more effective than Franklin

NZ would have taken Vetori over any other player and he rightly should be the first name on the team sheet, but alas, you can't do much if he's injured and unavailable. But one player NZ is missing particularly against India is Ryder, he just loved scoring runs against our lineup. What do you say Kiwi?

Both Ashwin and Ojha are doing everything to allow the ball to bounce and turn if it could. They are bowling it slow and tossing it up. Harbhajan Singh are you bloody watching?

also helps that Ashwin is willing to pitch the ball outside the off stump (something Harbajan failed to do in the last three years of his career or so)

Harbhajan bowled it fast and flat at the stumps and if a ball was the exception then that would have been the result of a mistake on his part rather than any deliberate attempt at change. Any seen him in county action? scoreboards indicated he hasn't been picking up very many wickets, but is there a positive change in his bowling mindset?

another one for Ashwin. Was it turning past the off stump? Was it hitting? close certainly.

msp83 wrote:NZ would have taken Vetori over any other player and he rightly should be the first name on the team sheet, but alas, you can't do much if he's injured and unavailable. But one player NZ is missing particularly against India is Ryder, he just loved scoring runs against our lineup. What do you say Kiwi?

I'd have Vettori before the Easy Ryder. But certainly Jessie instead of Daniel Flynn would be a great option. But like KP, Jesse's serving his time on the naughty step. Hopefully he gets his demons sorted and comes back.

Now Flynn gone LBWW Ashwin.

msp83 wrote:Now Flynn gone LBWW Ashwin.

4 down already, and a pitch with turn and bounce. If we don't lose by an innings I'll eat my hat.


(yep, I'm channelling Fists and Trebs)

as ganguly said on air.....if a batsman spend 25 minutes getting his forward / back feet movment and judging the bounce and spin...he can get set on this pitch.
williamson and franklin have done well in last 30 minutes

KP_fan wrote:as ganguly said on air.....if a batsman spend 25 minutes getting his forward / back feet movment and judging the bounce and spin...he can get set on this pitch.
williamson and franklin have done well in last 30 minutes

It won't last. We're doomed. One mistake from either of these two and the tail (ably lead by Chris Martin) will be swept aside.

Whenever someone mentions Chris Martin in a batting context I think of this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_NsFh-Z4aE

Williamson having played pretty well for 32 flashes at a wider one from Ohja, it bounces a bit and the edge goes straight to slip. Poor shot in the circumstances, NZ right up against it.

how is the little WK as a batsman ?