NZ vs. India at Hyderabad

First topic message reminder :

--So tomorrow starts more test match cricket.....
NZ hit some highs by drawing a series in Aus and holding SA to a creditable draw batting out 4 sessions.....
and then they hot a low losing rather tamely to WI in WI.....
the diffrence I believe between the high and the low was John Wright who they sacked.....
I saw they have some good left arm seamers, and Bracewell is a poor man's Vernon Philander with bat and ball.
In the absence of Vettori....Patel gets a break
Ross Taylor and McCullum are IPL stars and amply familiar with India.

--India is India......back to tigers at home and lambs abroad status after their dabble with status on top on the bac¨k of some overseas wins...courtey Ganguly and Gary Kirsten.

We have to see if even their tigers at home status is unchallenged with VVSL and Dravid gone , Sehwag slowed and Tendulkar not so profilic any more.

England should be monitoring India's new middle order batters very very closely.....who are likely to be Pujara, Kohli and Rahane....exposing these will be Eng's best chance towards a battle of equality later.

What few notice but Kirsten remarked.....India's ascent was on the back of celver use and almost an equal contribution from their seamers, even in home conditions.

Zaheer is the best exponent of reverse after Wasim Akram....and Yadav is as fast as any one in the world on his day......produces half a dozen wicket taking balls...inspite of being expensive.

Indian spinners are not in the quality of Kumble and Harbhajan ( at his prime) anymore......but the pitches will ensure thay are a handful.

The Indian XI will be following.....i do not know enouhg about the NZ team to list the possible XI.

1) Sehwag
2) Gambhir
3) Rahane...althouhg a school of thouhg believes hanae should open and Sehwag to bat in the middle order
4) Tendulkar
5) Pujara
6) Kohli
7) Dhoni
8) Ashwin
9) Zaheer
10) Ojha
11) Yadav

very good century from Pujara, well deserved and he's played very nicely indeed

Kohli played well also but was a bit skittish after tea, giving a couple of chances before a really poor shot cost him his wicket. It's my one worry with Kohli, is tendency (maybe) to think "I've made a few, that's enough".

Pujara reaches his hundred

Kohli's conversion rate in ODIs is top class, no player has scored as many ODI hundreds as he has done at his age. But I suppose he's still finding his feet in test cricket and in due course of time he will get over his issues.
But a fine knock from Pujara, took his time early on and after tea took the attack to the New Zealand bowling Played some pretty good shots and scored a deserving hundred. He has to make this a real big one, would do a world of good to his confidence, and keep him in a good frame of mind for the greater challenges that he will have to live up to when England and Australia come calling.
Won't be surprised if Raina makes a good score here, and I hope he has sorted out his previous problems, but I have to say I do have my doubts.

surprised Martin is out of the attack: I assume they're keeping him fresh for the new ball but I'm not sure you want to allow the new batsman Raina to play himself in against Patel and Franklin. A couple of aggressive overs of the quicker Martin would surely have been worth a go?

Pretty pathetic overrate here from New Zealand. Just half an hour left for the scheduled close of play, but there are 18 more overs to be bowled. Doubt whether the additional half an hour would do.

Raina goes, gone caught down the leg side by the keeper. and Patel gets a wicket.

msp83 wrote:Kohli's conversion rate in ODIs is top class, no player has scored as many ODI hundreds as he has done at his age. But I suppose he's still finding his feet in test cricket and in due course of time he will get over his issues.

you have to remember though, an ODI hundred (usually) takes considerably less time than a test hundred, so maybe it's a bit of a concentration issue. Like you say, I'm sure it'll be resolved in due course.

msp83 wrote:But a fine knock from Pujara, took his time early on and after tea took the attack to the New Zealand bowling Played some pretty good shots and scored a deserving hundred. He has to make this a real big one, would do a world of good to his confidence, and keep him in a good frame of mind for the greater challenges that he will have to live up to when England and Australia come calling.

Yep, Pujara's played very well and paced his innings very nicely. Looks a real talent to me.

msp83 wrote:Won't be surprised if Raina makes a good score here, and I hope he has sorted out his previous problems, but I have to say I do have my doubts.

Me too. He's out now anyway, tickling Patel to the keeper down the leg-side. A bit unlucky but... India in a spot of bother now at 260-5

The overrate has been shocking.

Rain gone, caught down the leg-side to Patel, a bit of trouble this for India with the 2nd new ball looming. If New-Zealand can pick one more up this evening (I guess we'll get another 13 overs or so) then they're well in this.

Pujara is still there and Dhoni is a more effective test battsman in home conditions and there is Ravichandran Ashwin who scored a hundred in his last home test to come in , but this is advantage for New Zealand, would have been complete had the chance offered by Dhoni first ball would have been taken.

msp83 wrote:Pretty pathetic overrate here from New Zealand. Just half an hour left for the scheduled close of play, but there are 18 more overs to be bowled. Doubt whether the additional half an hour would do.

especially when you consider how many overs of spin have been bowled. The heat gives them some excuse, but it really is very poor indeed.

NZ missing Bracewell here, Taylor is forced to bring Williamson on in a way understandable considering he would need Martin and Boult relatively fresh for the new ball but Had Bracewell been available he could have attacked Dhoni with one of his leading pacers.

Dhoni trying to hit his way out of pressure. He's smashed Patel into the crowd for 6. Good if this comes off, but the Indian captain has to be careful here, India can't afford another wicket today.

Patel is turning a few already. The 2 Indian spinners would be looking on with interest.

Raina doesn't make use of the opportunity served fift wrapped to him by Dhoni..and goes cheaply....falling to an offf spinner again.
raina has only 3 weaknesses:
1) Short ball
2) off spinner
3) swinging ball

rest is all good about his batting

Consideringg Indian lineup struggled to put up the runs on the board against the West in the Last home series in 2 out of the 3 test matches, this is a bit of a better start, but many of the concerns remain. Sehwag and Gambhir aren't valuing their wickets enough and even Kohli played a bit of a nothing shot to get out. Tendulkar looked short of game time. But one of the new hopes have stood up till this point, Pujara has to realize his job is only half done.

Pujara saved by a small inside-edge there, otherwise that looked a very good shout...

missing leg IMO...

Pujara got to be careful with tiredness creeping in and the 2nd new ball now.

really, thought it would have hit leg stump personally. Still, he hit it, so it's irrelevant anyway. I'm assuming no DRS in this series for the usual reasons?

new ball taken, half an hour to go. Can NZ pick up one more?

New Zealand need one more wicket before stumps and it'll be their day.

ooo looked like glove there, Pujara a very lucky man?

yep, snicko confirms. Tough to give, but Pujara's got away with one there. DRS?

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yep, snicko confirms. Tough to give, but Pujara's got away with one there. DRS?

Dirty word in India isn't it , MFC ?

Match not on TV here I am surprised to see so have seen none of it ...wife not too unhappy

Sounds like an interesting day but it seems India is going to end up with a stiff total for the Kiwis to chase...what do you think the pitch is going to be like for batting over the next couple of days ?

They don't use snicko usually for DRS, but Pujara indeed was very lucky there. Had he been given, it would have been NZ's day for sure. Although they managed 5 wickets, India have already gone passed 300, and with the ball already turning New Zealand will have to bat really really well. Before that they have to find a way through the rest of the lineup as well. As I wrote earlier, Ashwin is a plucky batsman with a test hundred to his name, and he scored some decent lower order runs in Australia as well. Zaheer would be more inclined to slog, but it has come off for him in the past particularly in the sub-continent conditions. India would be disappointed if they don't get to 400.

Snicko isn't ever used for DRS is it? takes too long to load I always thought. Though I thought there was enough evidence on the replays before snicko to have overturned the decision. Anyway, all in all, a pretty good day for India, the high scoring rate is a nice bonus, and it means NZ will have to bat very well to get anything out of this game. Not impossible, but I suspect India's spinners will be a handful here.

Have a feeling they used snicko in a series in Sri Lanka. Can't exactly remember which one. It does take a bit of time to come up. Nevertheless a handy bit of technology, and I believe it should be part of the DRS package. Every handy technology should be used, hotspot, snicko, ball tracking.......

TBH I'd like snicko to be used. I remember in the India vs England ODI series where the Indian commentator was going apoplectic over a Dravid caught behind (not out) decision being reversed despite there being nothing on hotspot (I was watching without sound at the time and gave it out based on a change in the ball's rotation). Then snicko came up, and he started saying "nothing on snicko either [long pause] well snicko picks up an edge, but..." was quite amusing actually

The problem I think is it takes something like 3 minutes to load snicko currently, which makes it impractical.

May be they have to look at making it a bit faster. More funds for R&D. But anyways the BCCI isn't going to have DRS any time soon, unless the rest of the cricket world really stand up.

Very good knock from Pujara Paced himself well and took full advantage of any loose deliveries. Methinks he'll get more of a working over from England and Australia though.

Kohli seemed intent to go after the bowling, and did a pretty good job. No complaints there.

One observation I would make is that Indian players seem fixated on this semi-ramp shot opening the face through the vacant slip cordon or over the slip cordon. This has been a very useful option for them in one-day cricket (it was noted how many runs that we weren't getting they were getting through there in the one-dayers against us last year). But in Tests I think it is too often their downfall for it to be a good option early in the innings. In particular, Gambhir, who had a very good technique when he first started, got out to this type of shot a few times in Australia and again today.

Overall, India will probably give themselves an 8/10. Losing 5 wickets is only OK in the context of the surface and opposition, and I'm sure that those that are out will have felt they missed out.

New Zealand weren't woeful, but I thought they were never quite threatening. In particular they over-bowled James Franklin in my view, who never caused many problems. Jeetan Patel's performance highlighted how hard it is to bowl spin at India and be successful. Their catching was a disappointment - you just can't afford to drop that many v India in India.

Franklin used to be such an exciting new ball bowler early in his career with the ability to get the ball to swing big at a lively pace. But post injuries and his reinvention as an all-rounder, he has become more of a parttimer with the ball. But at least he's around and not completely lost to international cricket as a victim of injuries. We know a number of promissing quicks lost that way, Simon Jones, Dean Headley, Shane Bond to a great extend, Chris Tremlett.......

NZ did well to get 5 Indian wickets.....they could have had more if they held their catches....
India did well to inspite of their new players and rustiness to get 300+ on D1....for the loss of 5. ..all except Tenduilakr were gifted wickets...they could have lost fewer.

so an even day.....If India crosses 400...which they look likely to.......wizth the pitch showing signs of unevenness and NZ batting last........India's griip will be firm.

Dhoni is very switched on....and gives the impresion like he wants top redeem....and payback for the all the overseas losses...by winning everything at home........and pushing his average alos up on pitches that suit his style of batting....

I expect he will get a hundred tomorrow....
My money in bet365 is on Pujara being the top scorer will yield 125 euros against my 10 euro bet....so i hope dhoni doesn't surpass Pujara
.

someone in Eng thinktank should record these games andf look very, very closely for:

1)the Indian batting..... for chinks in their armoury that might have crept up...such as Tendulkar's limitations in feet movement, gambhir's poke utside off, pujara's bat closing the face

2) The pitches that they can expüect to get and notice how the good indian batsmen are handling spin and reverse on these pitches

Eng's bowling attack by no means is better than NZ...I expect that they will be more organized and focuissed throuhg

KP_fan wrote:someone in Eng thinktank should record these games andf look very, very closely for:

1)the Indian batting..... for chinks in their armoury that might have crept up...such as Tendulkar's limitations in feet movement, gambhir's poke utside off, pujara's bat closing the face

2) The pitches that they can expüect to get and notice how the good indian batsmen are handling spin and reverse on these pitches

They will be. We employ Nathan Leamon as an analyst, and never leave a stone unturned in our preparation.

KP_fan wrote:Eng's bowling attack by no means is better than NZ...I expect that they will be more organized and focuissed throuhg

Erm, no. Care to expand?

KP_fan wrote:someone in Eng thinktank should record these games andf look very, very closely for:

1)the Indian batting..... for chinks in their armoury that might have crept up...such as Tendulkar's limitations in feet movement, gambhir's poke utside off, pujara's bat closing the face

2) The pitches that they can expüect to get and notice how the good indian batsmen are handling spin and reverse on these pitches

Eng's bowling attack by no means is better than NZ...I expect that they will be more organized and focuissed throuhg

Shelsey93 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:someone in Eng thinktank should record these games andf look very, very closely for:

1)the Indian batting..... for chinks in their armoury that might have crept up...such as Tendulkar's limitations in feet movement, gambhir's poke utside off, pujara's bat closing the face

2) The pitches that they can expüect to get and notice how the good indian batsmen are handling spin and reverse on these pitches

They will be. We employ Nathan Leamon as an analyst, and never leave a stone unturned in our preparation.

KP_fan wrote:Eng's bowling attack by no means is better than NZ...I expect that they will be more organized and focuissed throuhg

Erm, no. Care to expand?

Swann wasn't bowling against SA better than patel was bolwing today...
and on form Boult, Bracewell and Martin looked faster and no less Potent than anderson, Bresnan and Braod respectively.
Only Finn looked a class apart..
in terms of potentcy Eng may have no better an attcak...I do expect them to be better organized and hungrier to win

Of course England's analysts will be recording the match, although they won't be concentrating on Gambhir's tendancy to try to run the ball down to third-man off the back-foot, that is well known (they will have noted that he still does it, then moved on). Analysts will typically be looking at where the batsmen scored, against what balls and what types of bowlers, and which balls they didn't score off, and looked in trouble off (I oversimplify hugely). They will do a ball-by-ball account for the whole team, each partnership, and each batsman against all bowlers, all bowlers of similar type and finally each individual bowler.

I won't bother responding to the idea that New Zealand's attack is as good as England's.

I thought you had him on your "foe" list Mike. Probably safer that way

If you seriously believe that even one member of NZ's bowling attack in this test would make the England team (or even their second XI) then I can only suggest you go and watch some more cricket.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I thought you had him on your "foe" list Mike. Probably safer that way

Yeah but I can read what he said if people quote him in a reply... My "foe" 'list' isn't much of a list in any case...

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I thought you had him on your "foe" list Mike. Probably safer that way

If you seriously believe that even one member of NZ's bowling attack in this test would make the England team (or even their second XI) then I can only suggest you go and watch some more cricket.

In fairness, Boult would probably make our second XI. But thats about it. I also rate Patel higher than Monty. Though I rate Kerrigan higher than both. So no Patel.
But agree with the point that the guy is talking rubbish.

Patel is OK, but doesn't strike me as a matchwinner, something Monty has been in the past, so not sure I agree with that but OK. Boult is a good bowler, he'd be even better if Taylor set him decent fields. In fact in general I thought Taylor had a very ordinary day today (field setting, bowling changes though the cramp to one of his main bowlers limited him somewhat, and of course his dreadful catching).

Monty is not a match winner against good sides though. Awful record in India. And has looked unthreatening in SL. Patel impressed me today.

Ordinary? I thought Taylor had an absolutely $hit day today. Awful.

Looks like the reality of english bolwing "on current form"is too harsh to accept ...for fans

Patel won't have done worse than Swann's 4 wickets @ 77 apiece
Boult is better than Broad and Bresnan...and a little better to the reduced-pace anderson we saw against aagaint SA
Bracewell was also at 138kph looking more potent that Broad and bresanan....and almost like anderson in the series against SA.

Only James Franklin looked like Braod.....but he is playing as the 5th bowler...something I always advocated for broad also.

England's bowling has turned medicore....and that is why thiey lost 2-0 in home conditions and 4 out of 6 overseas tests so far this year....it is a bitter disappointing truth , more comfortable to deny for the moment if you are a die-hard fan

I think Boult has the potential to be better than Bresnan, for sure but Broad? Maybe but definitely not yet anywhere near Broad. Comparing Broad with Franklin is well.......

KP_fan wrote:Looks like the reality of english bolwing "on current form"is too harsh to accept ...for fans

Patel won't have done worse than Swann's 4 wickets @ 77 apiece
Boult is better than Broad and Bresnan...and a little better to the reduced-pace anderson we saw against aagaint SA
Bracewell was also at 138kph looking more potent that Broad and bresanan....and almost like anderson in the series against SA.

Only James Franklin looked like Braod.....but he is playing as the 5th bowler...something I always advocated for broad also.

England's bowling has turned medicore....and that is why thiey lost 2-0 in home conditions and 4 out of 6 overseas tests so far this year....it is a bitter disappointing truth , more comfortable to deny for the moment if you are a die-hard fan

Probably sums up how much cricket you watch. It was the batsmen who cost us in the UAE.

Oh no, the spambot is here now..

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Monty is not a match winner against good sides though. Awful record in India. And has looked unthreatening in SL. Patel impressed me today.

a bit harsh on Monty. All spinners (foreign ones) have poor records in India so Monty's hardly an exception there. Patel impressed me today too, bowled much better than I thought he would, but didn't really look threatening (the wicket he got was a bit of a fluke TBH). I thought India would try to get after him more, but maybe they felt they were scoring quickly enough so didn't want to take the risks.

As for Taylor, usually when I say "very ordinary" I mean "rubbish, actually"

Boult has potential, but bowls too many loose deliveries yet. The shape he gets on the ball is interesting though (particularly in India). Bracewell is hit-and-miss for me, and I worry about his fitness levels if he cramps up in his 11th over. If the other bloke understood anything at all about cricket, he'd know it most certainly wasn't our bowlers letting us down this winter (no one made over 400 I believe)

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Looks like the reality of english bolwing "on current form"is too harsh to accept ...for fans

Patel won't have done worse than Swann's 4 wickets @ 77 apiece
Boult is better than Broad and Bresnan...and a little better to the reduced-pace anderson we saw against aagaint SA
Bracewell was also at 138kph looking more potent that Broad and bresanan....and almost like anderson in the series against SA.

Only James Franklin looked like Braod.....but he is playing as the 5th bowler...something I always advocated for broad also.

England's bowling has turned medicore....and that is why thiey lost 2-0 in home conditions and 4 out of 6 overseas tests so far this year....it is a bitter disappointing truth , more comfortable to deny for the moment if you are a die-hard fan

Probably sums up how much cricket you watch. It was the batsmen who cost us in the UAE.

No..that is giving cheap escape to Eng bowlers....batsmen are no doubt having some responsiblity....

but the English bowlers could not take 20 wickets chearper than Pakistani bowlers ion similar conditions.....agaist a known weaker and technically less competent batting lineup

where's that foe button?

So when Pakistan lose 20 wickets for 400 and England lose 20 wickets for 330 it is the bowlers that cost us the match? They are a good bowling attack, better than NZ even with Broad as he was against SA, and best against best England's attack dwarves NZ's. Boult has potential, but like has been said he isn't consistent enough yet but looks to have plenty for the future. Bracewell again, has some potential but to suggest he would get into even England's top 6 seamers at this moment in time is a bit far fetched. Patel kept it tight, and you can't really ask much more for a spinner in India but he did a job I would expect Swann to do.

As for the Test match, I've only seen Pujara bat twice now, today and when he made 80* to win a Test against Aus, and he has impressed me with his temperament both times but it really is quite tough to tell how Indian players will do outside India until they actually play there. Kohli's shot was loose but his 50 was nicely compiled. I'd expect NZ to fight gamely, but lose comfortably. Wetting my appetite for the Eng-Ind series already.