Your Lions team

First topic message reminder :

This isn't who you think will be selected, but who you would like to see.

So many factors will determine the real selection next summer....

Match fitness
Injuries
Form
Six Nations form
Who's behaving off the pitch
Potential combinations
Currently uncapped players who might have a barnstorming 6N.

Even though Wales won the slam in 2012 it will have absolutely no bearing on summer 2013. We learned that lesson all too well in 2005 when some complete idiot thought that the merits of RWC 2003 would be completely transferable while undermining almost an entire squad of form players who had just won a grand slam.

I would be a twist of irony to see Gatland select a ridiculously large Welsh contingent, but two wrongs don't make a right. I love the lions it's a great tradition and I want to see the best players selected. If England hands down win the 2013 6N then I would actively promote the idea of a English dominated lions XV. What Woodward did was disgusting and it still annoys me to this day. Playing Wilko out of position against one of the best All Black teams ever seen, omitting the form 12 in NH rugby and one of the best wings the world has ever seen. It was a farce beyond belief.

Gatland should be able to raise the Lions a notch or two from 2009. I'm convinced there will be no bias.

If the Lions were picked now & all were fit I would like to see this team.

15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. Alex Cuthbert
13. BOD
12. Manu Tuilagi
11. George North
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Danny Care

8. Jamie Heaslip
7. Sam Warburton
6. Danny Lydiate
5. Alun-wyn Jones
4. POC
3. Adam Jones
2. Rory Best
1. Gethin Jenkins

I don't know what else Care can do...he's in sensational form at the moment, it would be an utter travesty if Youngs was ahead of him in selection!

mid_gen wrote:I don't know what else Care can do...he's in sensational form at the moment, it would be an utter travesty if Youngs was ahead of him in selection!

For England???

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Jones
4. Gray
5. POC
6. Denton
7. Tipuric
8. Beattie
9. Care
10. Sexton
11. Visser
12. Roberts
13. Tuilagi
14. Maitland
15. Halfpenny

From a Scotland perspective I think that the likes of Stuart Hogg and Kelly Brown may have a better chance of making the Lions tour than some of the usual names mentioned.

Test XV:

1.Healy 2.Hartley 3.Jones 4.Gray 5.POC 6.Ferris 7.Warburton 8.Heaslip 9.Care 10.Sexton 11.North 12.Roberts 13.Tuilagi 14.Bowe 15.Kearney

Dirt Track:

1.Jenkins 2.Best 3.Cole 4.Davies 5.Lawes 6.Lydiate 7.Robshaw 8.Denton 9.Youngs 10.Flood 11.Ashton 12.JD2 13.Joseph 14.Foden 15.Halfpenny

Reserves:

16.Ross 17.Rees 18.Corbisiero 19.Charteris 20.Falatau 21.Phillips 22.Hook 23.Hogg

38 players. Aussies don't stand a chance! (cough)

Would rather have Brown and Barclay in the backrow than Denton and Rennie anyday and in any team !

7 Cuthbert's and 8 North"s is all you need...

RogerLewis wrote:7 Cuthbert's and 8 North"s is all you need...

I havnt seen T Bowe this season and dont get to see much of the Aviva games so someone will know better than me. But im surprised Cuthberts not in anyones team, is there a winger playing better than him? Maybe cos the rest of his team are playing so cack he looking better?

Cuthbert is playing outstanding. It's also a bonus that he's even bigger than George North and he often makes yards due to his pure strength.

RogerLewis

If the Lions teama was picked now, and on form only.

Andrew Sheridan would be in. And ( Gethin Jenkins wouldnot be any where near. ) Steffon Armatage would be in place of Sam Warburton.

Vissar? Would he get in with no international experience. He is a good club player, but as not played internationals at all. the Wings will probably one of Ashton, Bowe, North, Cuthbert

I have said on another thread the 10 shirt will be interesting.

The rest of your team is possible.

Healey
Hartley
Cole
Oconnell
Lawes
Ferris
Heaslip
Robshaw
Youngs
Sexton
North
Roberts
Tuilagi
Ashton
Kearney

Sheridan
Rees
Jones
O'Connell
Gray
Lydiate
Denton
Warburton
Care
Sexton
North
Roberts
Tuilagi
Bowe
Kearney

What's with the Sheridan love-in all of a sudden? Wouldn't he need to be playing for England first to get ahead in contention? Something he will not do while playing for Toulon. Healy is the front runner for LH. I'm not sure I'd take Geth to be honest, I even think his days with Wales are numbered .

Sheridan has been England's best loosie for several years but I think people gave up on him due to his history of injuries culminating in the RWC shoulder one which required another op. Everyone thought that was the end of the road for him and that he is basically a gym monkey with a body not suited to rugby. Then he signed for Toulon and is enjoying a JW style renaissance. Must be the sun plus their big squad meaning he only plays 55 minutes of a match and can be rotated.

When he is match fit and on form there is no doubt he is a very good player and one the Aussies fear. Not playing for England would not harm him. A few games on tour would ascertain his form and fitness for the tests and a season in T14 should keep him in fine fettle. Much stronger in the scrum and in the tight than Healey, but loses quite a bit in his work in the loose and around the park. But if you want a prop who can prop and lift in the lineouts and win gainline battle then he is your man.

Plus he plays the guitar and is a good tourist as shown in SA.

Roberts and tuilagi as a Center pairing is absolutely ridiculous.

Morgannwg wrote:What's with the Sheridan love-in all of a sudden? Wouldn't he need to be playing for England first to get ahead in contention? Something he will not do while playing for Toulon. Healy is the front runner for LH. I'm not sure I'd take Geth to be honest, I even think his days with Wales are numbered .

Why would he have to play for England to tour with the lions? They are separate entities and the Sheridan love is because he is in good form an keeping a player who was seen as nailed on a few months ago out of the starting club XV

Because players don't get selected on club form.

I didn't pick him for my squad above, but as a point of correction visser has played international rugby, and scored during the summer. He is capped.

Whilst I agree the roberts/tuilagi partership is pretty physical and hardly a footballing dream team, the aussies could use mccabe and aac, so I don't really see it as a big isse, particularly with sexton, a good footballer, at 10.

I haven't seen sheridan this season, but agree that club form should suffice to be picked for the lions.

Is it worrying that already there are a number of test and tour hopefuls that are looking out of sorts or injured . I know there's a long way to go but

O'connell. Hardly played
O'driscoll. Injured
Ferris. Injured
O'brien injured
Best injured
Kearney injured
Adam jones injured
Gethin Jenkins now bench material
Mike Phillips not playing well
Lydiate injured
Warburton out of form
Priestland out of form
Jonathan Davies injured
Roberts out of form
Gray out of form. And these are just the celts I'm aware of.

Morgannwg wrote:Because players don't get selected on club form.

Yes they do, last tour a Munster flanker was picked purely on club form until he gouged someone I think

Gusgott and Greenwood were in 1997 too. Carling and De Glanville were the England centres at the time....there's loads of examples...

No reason why the Lions selectors won't have different opinions to the national coaches although you'd imagine the guys who play in the AIs and 6N have the advantage over those who don't.

Club form doesn't get taken into account, so we were told on that last tour. Although to an extent it should, as some who are candidates may miss out on part of the 6 Nations. Don't remember when Sheridan last played an international game but if he is playing well enough I'd like to see him tour. Very handy player, and probably one of the biggest, strongest guys you may see on a rugby field.

Also keith earls was picked for the last tour largely on club form, as was greenwood in 97. Don't think shaw was playing internationals before the laat tour either.

Gatland has also said he hasn't ruled out wilkinson, which suggests he'll consider players retired from international rugby.

Saying club form doesn't come into the process is clearly and demonstrably false as it has happened that pretty much every Lions tour has people who are not playing regular International rugby picked!

'97 took a lot of players not playing regular international rugby. And devised their own strategy & tactics, as Fran Cotton notably mentions in the 'behind the scenes' footage.

Maybe not a coincidence it was the last tour with a series win?

Morgannwg wrote:Club form doesn't get taken into account, so we were told on that last tour. Although to an extent it should, as some who are candidates may miss out on part of the 6 Nations. Don't remember when Sheridan last played an international game but if he is playing well enough I'd like to see him tour. Very handy player, and probably one of the biggest, strongest guys you may see on a rugby field.

Who said that? Geech said very publically that O'Connell was picked as captain based heavily on his Munster leadership and that he wanted a real Munster spirit in the squad, hence Quinlan's inclusion...... if he hadn't of named his squad just before Leinster spanked Munster in the Heino SF he might have though a bit differently.....

Can't remember who said it exactly, but it was murmoured a lot. Obviously false. Must have been the English trying to dismiss the form of Halfpenny. He had just been introduced to international rugby, but was in outstanding form for his club.

majesticimperialman wrote:RogerLewis

If the Lions teama was picked now, and on form only.

Andrew Sheridan would be in. And ( Gethin Jenkins wouldnot be any where near. ) Steffon Armatage would be in place of Sam Warburton.

Vissar? Would he get in with no international experience. He is a good club player, but as not played internationals at all. the Wings will probably one of Ashton, Bowe, North, Cuthbert

I have said on another thread the 10 shirt will be interesting.

The rest of your team is possible.

Visser has international experience, he's played against England (2 trys), Fiji (2 trys) and Samoa. He'll be playing NZ, SA and Tonga + 6 Nations pending on injury, but anything could happen to any player in this time injury wise.

WTF - Visser played against England ! ? No he has not. Overrated numpty imho

I think if Cuthbert can play like he did last year for Wales in the AI and 6N, surely he's nailed on for that 14 jersey?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Saying club form doesn't come into the process is clearly and demonstrably false as it has happened that pretty much every Lions tour has people who are not playing regular International rugby picked!

Didn't Gatland say last week that Wilkinson was in the frame? So clearly he's planning on taking club form ino account.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Also keith earls was picked for the last tour largely on club form, as was greenwood in 97. Don't think shaw was playing internationals before the laat tour either.

Gatland has also said he hasn't ruled out wilkinson, which suggests he'll consider players retired from international rugby.

Not largely on club form, completely on club form, don't think Earls had a cap for Ireland when he was picked for the Lions. People here suggesting that club form is not taken into account or can't be the only factor when picking a Lion obviously haven't been following the Lions for very long. There are many many examples, and it is one of the beautiful things about the Lions. God I need a good cry now! So beautiful!

Current looseheads in contention for lions

Corbisiero - long term injured

Marler- very short term injured, playing well is now more solid in the scrums but is not a destructive scrummager

Healey- Recovery from long term Injury, probably number one in Lions countries when fit with great all round game but seems to spend alot of time each international match injured getting sponged

Jenkins- Warming pine and wasting his considerable talent

Sheridan - currently fit, nailed on starter for one of the best teams in europe, playing heinkein cup rugby and scrummaging against knarly french props week in and week out when on form is the best scrummaging loosehead in the world (oh no he didn't just say that) experienced international and lions tourist and made a name for himself by destroying the aussie front row with england...who are the lions playing again next year ??

Hence the sheridan love mon amis

Irishhoneymonster wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Also keith earls was picked for the last tour largely on club form, as was greenwood in 97. Don't think shaw was playing internationals before the laat tour either.

Gatland has also said he hasn't ruled out wilkinson, which suggests he'll consider players retired from international rugby.

Not largely on club form, completely on club form, don't think Earls had a cap for Ireland when he was picked for the Lions. People here suggesting that club form is not taken into account or can't be the only factor when picking a Lion obviously haven't been following the Lions for very long. There are many many examples, and it is one of the beautiful things about the Lions. God I need a good cry now! So beautiful!

There's not very many examples of non internationals who've been capped by the Lions in re dnt times. I made the mistake of thinking that earlier in the thread. I was confusing it with the Baa Baas. The last non international for the Lions was was Will Greenwood in '97. None since.

Ex internationals or 'not current but former' internationals are a different matter though I guess, and that's where Sheridan and Wilko would be classed. I think they're more likely to go than those who've never played at international level at all.

Griff wrote:

Irishhoneymonster wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Also keith earls was picked for the last tour largely on club form, as was greenwood in 97. Don't think shaw was playing internationals before the laat tour either.

Gatland has also said he hasn't ruled out wilkinson, which suggests he'll consider players retired from international rugby.

Not largely on club form, completely on club form, don't think Earls had a cap for Ireland when he was picked for the Lions. People here suggesting that club form is not taken into account or can't be the only factor when picking a Lion obviously haven't been following the Lions for very long. There are many many examples, and it is one of the beautiful things about the Lions. God I need a good cry now! So beautiful!

There's not very many examples of non internationals who've been capped by the Lions in re dnt times. I made the mistake of thinking that earlier in the thread. I was confusing it with the Baa Baas. The last non international for the Lions was was Will Greenwood in '97. None since.

Ex internationals or 'not current but former' internationals are a different matter though I guess, and that's where Sheridan and Wilko would be classed. I think they're more likely to go than those who've never played at international level at all.

Ok fair enough Griff but a good few players in recent times have been capped very little and often only in run outs against minnow sides. Many have been a fair bit away from their national first team main squad when picked and basically unheard of by people outside their own country, which is very different from the likes of Sheridan and Wilko now.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:WTF - Visser played against England ! ? No he has not. Overrated numpty imho

He did play vs England but in a barbarians shirt. There is time and chances between now and selection time for him to prove himself one way or the other

Sorry Griff just read your post correctly and see you were saying Sheridan and Wilko are a different matter I need to cut down on the vino

maestegmafia wrote:Roberts and tuilagi as a Center pairing is absolutely ridiculous.

Yup. But shifting JD to 12 with Sexton at 10, and Tuilagi at 13 would be my choice atm. Both in attack and defence.

Has'nt Jamie Roberts beeen out injured for a long time and just coming back and playing again? so why, why, do people keep picking players for the Lions who have not played for a long time?

I know they believe that a player can play himself back into form. But surely that person ( Jamie Roberts ) would be keeping out player/s that are on form and playing the better rugtby.

Jamie Roberts has played the since mid September for the Blues, he took the summer tour off, operation was late April.

Your question was just like your last MAdge

Roberts Ida proven performer at international level. He will be a popular choice. Maybe if you don't rate him you should pick some alternatives...?

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Roberts and tuilagi as a Center pairing is absolutely ridiculous.

Yup. But shifting JD to 12 with Sexton at 10, and Tuilagi at 13 would be my choice atm. Both in attack and defence.

I think Maes was using 'ridiculous' in a positive way. Like rappers. 'Jay-Z has some ridiculous fly rhymes, fo sho..'

It's a Maesteg thing.

maestegmafia wrote:Your question was just like your last MAdge

Roberts Ida proven performer at international level. He will be a popular choice. Maybe if you don't rate him you should pick some alternatives...?

maestegmafia

It is not that i dont rate Jamie Roberts. The point i was making is if a player/s are not on form before the tournament is started, then they should not be included in the squad.

It is no use saying that we thought he would get his form back on the tour. And it is stoping some else that is in form to get in the squad.

It's a shame there isn't an old-fashioned Barbarians match against one of the top three sides any more (i.e. one filled with Lions candidates rather than other European and Southern Hemisphere players). It used to be one way to get a look at combinations from the home unions which you wouldn't see outside the Lions.

Roberts will tour and will likely play like he did in 2009.

Personally I think playing for Cardiff Blues saps you of all motivation, energy & desire.

The only region where players give their all is the Ospreys. None of the other Welsh regions will ever see domestic success.

The Blues top Welsh players need to move asap.

Halfpenny - Ospreys (We need more experience and depth at fullback and wing. Come home Leigh)

Roberts - Ospreys (We definitely need another experienced centre)

Cuthbert - Toulon

Warburton - Clermont

Irishhoneymonster wrote:Sorry Griff just read your post correctly and see you were saying Sheridan and Wilko are a different matter I need to cut down on the vino

Hey, no worries! Was I the vino myself too!

I'd consider Wilko and Sheridan for that very reason, I.e. although not current internationals they've played well at that level before and have been in that 'environment', so we know they can make the step up. The risk is with players who've never stepped up, or very little.

majesticimperialman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Your question was just like your last MAdge

Roberts Ida proven performer at international level. He will be a popular choice. Maybe if you don't rate him you should pick some alternatives...?

maestegmafia

It is not that i dont rate Jamie Roberts. The point i was making is if a player/s are not on form before the tournament is started, then they should not be included in the squad.

It is no use saying that we thought he would get his form back on the tour. And it is stoping some else that is in form to get in the squad.

I agree that he has not been in his best form recently, but as we said before regarding your thoughts on Sam Warbuton, that it is more likely that Warburton and Roberts will hit form than not.

They are proven performers at this level.

Casartelli wrote:

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Roberts and tuilagi as a Center pairing is absolutely ridiculous.

Yup. But shifting JD to 12 with Sexton at 10, and Tuilagi at 13 would be my choice atm. Both in attack and defence.

I think Maes was using 'ridiculous' in a positive way. Like rappers. 'Jay-Z has some ridiculous fly rhymes, fo sho..'

It's a Maesteg thing.

Leave it out Casterelli.

maestegmafia wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Roberts and tuilagi as a Center pairing is absolutely ridiculous.

Yup. But shifting JD to 12 with Sexton at 10, and Tuilagi at 13 would be my choice atm. Both in attack and defence.

I think Maes was using 'ridiculous' in a positive way. Like rappers. 'Jay-Z has some ridiculous fly rhymes, fo sho..'

It's a Maesteg thing.

Leave it out Casterelli.

I was being serious. Roberts is class and Gatland loves him, so he's the certain 12 - and Gatland is likely to partner him with Tuilagi as smashing the Aussies into submission will be the tactic.

JD2 and BOD, as a wildcard, are the only other 13s in contention.

Personally I like the sound of JD and Tuilagi but if all are fit and on form and selected then I would expect them to see if the Roberts/BOD combo can be successful again