England v Aus - KO 14:30 Sat 17th NOV at HQ - Match Thread/Build Up etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Feel free to discuss this game and any other aspect involving the England Rugby team good or bad as your opinions count and you won't be judged (by me) if you go against England, but do try to give a reason!

Please respect other posters opinions

Game 1: Eng v Fiji
Game 2: Eng v Aus
Game 3: Eng v SA
Game 4: Eng v NZ

England team to face Australia:

Alex Goode
Chris Ashton
Manusamoa Tuilagi
Brad Barritt
Charlie Sharples
Toby Flood
Danny Care
Joe Marler
Tom Youngs,
Dan Cole
Tom Palmer
Geoff Parling
Tom Johnson,
Chris Robshaw
Thomas Waldrom
Replacements: David Paice
David Wilson
Mako Vunipola
Joe Launchbury
Tom Wood
Ben Youngs
Owen Farrell
Mike Brown

[gregortree]

Watching the game here:

"Smugglers is a unique venue located in the heart of Brighton City Centre and is one of the most vibrant venues in the City."

[Chjw131]

Again the bench is a underwhelming in the backs bar Ben Youngs. Brown should either play or not be there at all, i'd rather have seen Joseph make the bench. Is Lancs going to bring Brown him on at wing again?!

I thought Launchbury went well against Fiji but I can understand why he's not starting yet. Palmer had a storming match against OZ last time we played them and his experience will be important.

For all the talk of scrum dominance, we had all this in 2010 and we ended up with 6 scrums the whole match each being given as a freekick or penalty by Joubert. It meant nothing in that game but would be nice to see it allowed to develop this time. Who's the ref?

I would hope England will secure this as a victory but I think the Ozzies will come back fighting from last weekend. England to take it but by a slim margin I think.

[Geordie]

Whats happened to Morgan...is he just not rated...?

[HERSH]

He went to Glawster, once SL finds out thats who Sharples plays for he'll be out in the cold too.

[gregortree]

Not by SL for some reason.
Waldrom & Morgan seem too similar to me. I guess SL had to pick just one.

[killer938]

The ref is Romain Poite so if England do get on top we know he won't be scared to keep giving the penalties one way

[sirtidychris]

Not by SL for some reason.
Waldrom & Morgan seem too similar to me. I guess SL had to pick just one.

yeah the shorter, fatter less english one with less impact.

[gregortree]

Maybe SL tossed a coin.

[Geordie]

Not by SL for some reason.
Waldrom & Morgan seem too similar to me. I guess SL had to pick just one.

yeah the shorter, fatter less english one with less impact.

Yeah id have been inclined to go for the one with the long term gains...and that would have been Morgan...surprised at SL with this one...unless Rowntree has been influential in this part.

Maybe he just hasnt hit the fitness test levels that SL demands and Waldrom despite looking unfit..actually does.

[Big]

Not by SL for some reason.
Waldrom & Morgan seem too similar to me. I guess SL had to pick just one.

yeah the shorter, fatter less english one with less impact.

Yeah id have been inclined to go for the one with the long term gains...and that would have been Morgan...surprised at SL with this one...unless Rowntree has been influential in this part.

Maybe he just hasnt hit the fitness test levels that SL demands and Waldrom despite looking unfit..actually does.

I have heard that Waldrom is, despite appearances, one of if not the fittest player in the Tigers squad. I'd still go with Morgan though he strikes me as a better player and clearly has far more scope to improve, unless he has some kind of attitude problem that may affect the squad but that doesn't strike me as likely - I've not heard anything bad about him.

[lostinwales]

Well I believe that Waldrom does have a good reputation as far as being fit for a fat boy. Cant help thinking that I'd rather gamble with a less fit Morgan for the simple reason that he can occasionally do something special as opposed to a whole afternoon of just doing enough

[gregortree]

Burns & Morgan will have their turn. Pl leave them alone at Glaws for the time being.

[GLove39]

Anyone know which strip England will be playing in on Saturday?

[EnglishReign]

Dashing purple, I reckon. Wingers looking pretty in pink.

[Alex_Germany]

Well I believe that Waldrom does have a good reputation as far as being fit for a fat boy. Cant help thinking that I'd rather gamble with a less fit Morgan for the simple reason that he can occasionally do something special as opposed to a whole afternoon of just doing enough

Here's something from Leicester a year or two ago

With a huge frame and a nickname of "Thomas the Tank Engine", Waldrom may be big and strong but does not come across as the epitome of athletic fitness.

Cockerill, however, says the 26-year-old, who made 30 appearances for the Wellington Hurricanes before joining the Crusaders, will shock a few people with what he has to offer.

"He is 6ft tall and 17 stone and looks like an overweight shot-putter," said Cockerill.

"But his work-rate is excellent and he is a strong ball carrier.

"He is exceptionally fit and came second only to Richie McCaw (All Blacks captain and flanker) on all of the fitness tests at the Crusaders last season.

"He was also player of the year in 2009 at the Crusaders and, in that environment, that speaks volumes. He has a history of discus and shot putt and is a power athlete.

[Guest]

So were are we at England fans?
Fill in the gap"England are ........................"

In a transition?
Rebuilding?
Young team?
Youthful team?
Inexperienced?
Fluid?
Attacking team?
Grind out a win kind of team?
Settled?
Work in progress?
Building for the world cup?
or something else?

Just want to gauge the general consensus with the fans, i find it exhausting to keep up with the spin words.

[sickofwendy]

Work in progress

[Poorfour]

Against Fiji, they were inexperienced bordering on fluid. Let's hope the trend continues.

I genuinely think that Lancaster has identified a squad to take us to 2015, barring the odd bolter or juvenile. It's now a question of whether they can learn a style of play that can deliver the goods, and how fast they can do it.

[DaveM]

Again the bench is a underwhelming in the backs bar Ben Youngs. Brown should either play or not be there at all, i'd rather have seen Joseph make the bench. Is Lancs going to bring Brown him on at wing again?!

The trouble is England need someone who can do a decent job at FB if Goode gets injured in the 2nd minute. I've therefore decided I can understand the logic of Brown on the bench. This is why Foden may well come straight back into the team in the spring playing on the left-wing.

I think the bench is ok. Who's to say we won't want the steady game of Farrell to come on in the 60th minute instead of the more expansive game of Burns?

[DaveM]

I'm sure Australia will play better than last week, but I expect England to win. Quite a lot of ability in the starting side and an emerging style of play. It'll be interesting to see if opposition side can find a way to exploit Goode's presence in the line.

[Hound_of_Harrow]

So were are we at England fans?
Fill in the gap"England are ........................"

In a transition?
Rebuilding?
Young team?
Youthful team?
Inexperienced?
Fluid?
Attacking team?
Grind out a win kind of team?
Settled?
Work in progress?
Building for the world cup?
or something else?

Just want to gauge the general consensus with the fans, i find it exhausting to keep up with the spin words.

'Spin'

From where??

Or are you hypothesising about the likely excuses if England lose. Yup, that'll be it.

Anyway - "none of the above".


England, like every other team this weekend, are a squad of players and coaches trying to win a test match.

[rainbow-warrior]

Good Australian win here, england were rubbish against Fiji in the 1st half and will be battered by Australia.

[Breadvan]

Probably Eng have their tails up after a win the the Aussies were soundly beaten. Wouldn't suprise me if they cantered to a win tbh...

[Portnoy's Complaint]

I'd be emore inclined to make an assessment once the next two games are over (as I'm not convinced if the ABs match will prove much).

It's the coaching style which is more relevant as for first time for ten years we appear to have a decent crop of players who have the wherewithal to compete on the international stage. And I'm still in fear of the Andy Farrell effect kicking in against the big boys.

[yappysnap]

Good Australian win here, england were rubbish against Fiji in the 1st half and will be battered by Australia.

Exactly, it'll be like that Ireland game two years ago all over again

[AlastairW]

Lancaster's not an idiot. He won't be complacent about this game, he knows that regardless of the hack .. sorry, media circus that has been circling the Aussy side recently they are still world No.2 and tend to come back with a strong showing off the back of a lose. He's already said as much to Auntie Beeb.

It's too close to call for me, although my Aussy cousin and I will be abusing Skype and probabley each other through the game, which is a great way to catch up with family!

[yappysnap]

Remember a couple of years back when SA had just lost to Scotland, their camp was meant to be split with players wanting to go home and the team in turmoil?

All the press (Muppet) and plenty of fans as well were going on about how they were there for the taking and England would just need to turn up to send the bunch of neanderthal scallywags scurrying home with a damn good thrashing.

What happens? They come out and completely hump us, put a record score on and we get 3/4 yellow cards...

Let's not count chickens just yet eh guys?

[gregortree]

wise words on chickens there Yappy.
RSA have been our nemesis plenty of times.
But vs Aussie I feel a little more confident on the strength of England's history. It will all come down to scrum dominance tomorrow.
Who is going to win that one ? I think I know but will not write it here... superstition prevents.

BTW - has anyone got the bookie prices on this one ?

[Biltong]

Why would you want to count chickens anyway, they dart all over the place and refuse to stand still.

[EnglishReign]

One difference is, SA didn't get destroyed by the Scots.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Remember a couple of years back when SA had just lost to Scotland, their camp was meant to be split with players wanting to go home and the team in turmoil?

All the press (Muppet) and plenty of fans as well were going on about how they were there for the taking and England would just need to turn up to send the bunch of neanderthal scallywags scurrying home with a damn good thrashing.

What happens? They come out and completely hump us, put a record score on and we get 3/4 yellow cards...

Let's not count chickens just yet eh guys?

Think it was the other way round, we got 3/4 yellows then they completly humped us. Up till a point the blatant cheating and deliberate penalties were keeping us in it.

[gregortree]

Had a quick look at Paddy Power, not a site I am used to.
Wales v Samoa are evens.

England v Aussie 10/11 and 10/11 ?
Wot ? can both teams be odds on to win ?

Any gamblers out there to help me understand this ?

[EnglishReign]

Ashton anytime scorer?

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Had a quick look at Paddy Power, not a site I am used to.
Wales v Samoa are evens.

England v Aussie 10/11 and 10/11 ?
Wot ? can both teams be odds on to win ?

Any gamblers out there to help me understand this ?

Not according to http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/internationals/international-matches/england-v-australia/winner gregor.

[gregortree]

ok having read some more on Paddy, England 11/4 on Aussie 9/4 against.
This just may in part be due to weightings of home population, so not sure a 'neutral' reflection of the actual chances.

[gregortree]

GreyT, thanks

[lostinwales]

So were are we at England fans?
Fill in the gap"England are ........................"

In a transition?
Rebuilding?
Young team?
Youthful team?
Inexperienced?
Fluid?
Attacking team?
Grind out a win kind of team?
Settled?
Work in progress?
Building for the world cup?
or something else?

Just want to gauge the general consensus with the fans, i find it exhausting to keep up with the spin words.

Youthful and inexperienced (but not as youthful and less experienced than Wales - not that that is something that needs to be brought up)

Developing. The team looks more settled, more united, and, most crucially more grounded than they have been for some time. Its all semantics but I think 'in transition' suggests that a team is trying to find settled personnel and playing style. I think the personnel are getting more settled all the time ( and the sort of challenges in individual positions are the kind you want) and that the style of play is a work in progress, but at least there is some kind of direction in there. Hopefully they will turn into the kind of team that can change their tactics - be fluid or just grind depending on the circumstances

They are not the finished article by any means but they look to be getting better and should continue to improve over the next few years.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Had a quick look at Paddy Power, not a site I am used to.
Wales v Samoa are evens.

England v Aussie 10/11 and 10/11 ?
Wot ? can both teams be odds on to win ?

Any gamblers out there to help me understand this ?

10/11 is in favour of the bookie.
Bassiclay they are saying theres an even chance, or perhaps because England tend to get backed heavily through loyalty/optimism they shortened the odds on them slightly.

I assume thats the handicap betteing though, is there a (+/-3) or something after the odds?
for weach team

[HammerofThunor]

Remember a couple of years back when SA had just lost to Scotland, their camp was meant to be split with players wanting to go home and the team in turmoil?

All the press (Muppet) and plenty of fans as well were going on about how they were there for the taking and England would just need to turn up to send the bunch of neanderthal scallywags scurrying home with a damn good thrashing.

What happens? They come out and completely hump us, put a record score on and we get 3/4 yellow cards...

Let's not count chickens just yet eh guys?

Think it was the other way round, we got 3/4 yellows then they completly humped us. Up till a point the blatant cheating and deliberate penalties were keeping us in it.

Didn't we get the 4 yellow cards in 2008 against the All Blacks? The Boks just humped us. Might have been a card or two but I can't remember. That was in 2009 wasn't it? Or was it 2010 after the Australia win?

[belovedfrosties]

Apparently Ioane has a habit of saying and doing odd things to the press. Most of the time its all very childish and meant to confuse or entertain everyone. Thats what im putting this all down to.

Also, if you haven't already, check out Floods and Catts respective responses to it all, very funny.

[lostinwales]

Lets face it so much of these interviews is pure cliche its fun when someone goes off script

[gregortree]

Just prematch banter. But the hookers 'domination' quote was best, a great motivational speech for England.

[OzT]

yeah our hookers, specially the westies ones, were known for their dominations, though the ones up William Street to the Cross ones can also be submissive too.....

[EnglishReign]

yeah our hookers, specially the westies ones, were known for their dominations, though the ones up William Street to the Cross ones can also be submissive too.....

Tell me more...

[majesticimperialman]

I realy hope that England do not only win the game, but most of all put in a good performance, step up from last week against FIJI. I would like to see both Ashton, and Sharples get planty of ball.

Will be intersting to see how the scrum goes. Can England dominate the Australia scrum like they have done in the past. I know Australia have a lot on injuries. But that cannot be helped. It is just one of those things.

[Guest]

But Madge how does this effect the world rankings?
i ask you with sincere interest.
How many Lions will England have after this game, i ask you?

[majesticimperialman]

But Madge how does this effect the world rankings?
i ask you with sincere interest.
How many Lions will England have after this game, i ask you?

I dont know viewtothegym. How many Lions will England have after this game?

Maybe alot more than Wales will have after their game tonight viewtothegym ok.

If England do lose tomorrow, they will not drop any further down the IRB world rankin table will they? eh viewtothegym.

[Alex_Germany]

OK - I think England will win. The reason for that is the football team lost to Sweden and the cricket team is losing to India, and traditionally, only one team does well at any one time.

So there you have it. If England lose then Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button will get at 1-2 in the F1, where-ever that may be.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

I just noticed that Owens is the ref today which is a real problem. He normally tends to have a bias for one team.

If England get on the wrong side of him then it could spell disaster.

I woke up this morning in cheerful but mistaken belief that it was Poite again.

Bugger.

And you have no idea how careful I felt I had to be in the wording of this post.

[HERSH]

Owens will be a bit down after last night too.

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