Scotland vs Wales: Match Thread

[bsando]

First topic message reminder :

SCOTLAND vs WALES

Venue: Murrayfield
Date: 9/3/13
Kick-off: 14:30
TV coverage: BBC One
Weather Forecast: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/edinburgh#?tab=fiveDay&fcTime=1362787200
Ref: Craig Joubert

SCOTLAND
1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Hamilton
6. Harley
7. Brown
8. Beattie
9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Lamont
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Bench: 16. Hall 17. Low 18. Cross 19. Kelock 20. Wilson 21. Prygos 22. Jackson 23. Evans

WALES
1. James
2. Hibbard
3. A. Jones
4. A. W. Jones
5. Evans
6. R. Jones
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens 17. Andrew 18. Mitchell 19. Coombs 20. Tipuric 21. L. Williams 22. Hook 23. S. Williams

[IanBru]

France's performance was something else as well.

Might have been the reason the crowd were booing.

[TJ1]

Given that Scotland have scored a lot of tries recently including against NZ and England it would be suprising that they did not score any against wales.

[Morgannwg]

Scotland scored zilch tries in their last test though. That was when they were met with a similar defence to Wales'.

[TJ1]

Really - Ireland have a revolving door on both wings?

Seriously I expect a fair few tries in the game and will be very surprised if Scotland score none.

[GLove39]

Scotland scored zilch tries in their last test though. That was when they were met with a similar defence to Wales'.

True, although with only 20%, or there abouts, of the ball getting a try was always going to be hard.

[TJ1]

Scotland are the top try scorers in the 6N so far this year. who would have thunk it? ( equal with wales)

[Morgannwg]

Really - Ireland have a revolving door on both wings?

Seriously I expect a fair few tries in the game and will be very surprised if Scotland score none.

Compared to Wales' one revolving door on the wing.

I think it'll be a low scoring affair, similar to the game against France. It's the current style of play.

[GLove39]

Well if it's to be a low scoring game, then a repeat of 2007 would be great!

[NeilyBroon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21605704

What is with all this talk from the Welsh camp?

I don't think the Wales boys are doing themselves many favours, it reminds me of when Scotland would talk a lot about a game and the other team before playing without any stimulus.

Hibbard clearly needs a bit more respect for his opposition, I personally hope he now struggles with every lineout!

[George Carlin]

Rather lumpen stuff from Hibbard. I'm assuming he got cornered by a journalist after a couple of mineral waters, because he hardly comes over as John Donne.

Johnson has actually been incredibly complimentary about Wales in the press this week (calling Tips the best openside in the NH) so I'm not sure what 'mind games' he's even referring to. Johnson has been nothing but low key with the press to date - his tone was perfect after the Ireland match.

[wales606]

Hibbard was right

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2013/03/03/scott-johnson-wales-haven-t-done-anything-different-for-five-years-91466-32915852/

[George Carlin]

WTF are you talking about?
Johnson was giving a compliment.

Did you actually read what he said? The full transcript of that interview is on the Scotman on Sunday website.

[Morgannwg]

Hibbard;

I will probably see him after the game and give him a high-five and say thanks for the win.

What a ledge . Hi-5's all-round I reckon. I only wish Lee Byrne was there to take part in a few tries and high fives.

[reallybored]

I hope Murray rams Hibbard's bright red face down into his shoulders.

So on the SRU website under unavailable players it features Barclay, De Luca and Ansbro etc. But in the forwards section Rennie is listed as available, what is the deal with this guy? Why has there been no release on estimated return dates or information on his injury? Is he proper screwed or being kept on ice for Edinburgh late Rabo charge?

[glamorganalun]

Hibbard was right

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2013/03/03/scott-johnson-wales-haven-t-done-anything-different-for-five-years-91466-32915852/

The fact is it is true, our coaches are one trick ponies with some very good players. Wales could be far less predictable with a plan B and C, there is only a plan A.

[George Carlin]

I hope Murray rams Hibbard's bright red face down into his shoulders.

So on the SRU website under unavailable players it features Barclay, De Luca and Ansbro etc. But in the forwards section Rennie is listed as available, what is the deal with this guy? Why has there been no release on estimated return dates or information on his injury? Is he proper screwed or being kept on ice for Edinburgh late Rabo charge?

Don't know, Really. SJ also mentioned in an interview that they had Fusaro "in the bank" if they needed him and that he was definitely large enough to be playing as he's the same size as Michael Hooper.

First I've heard of any enthusiasm for Fozzy from SJ, brilliant though he is. Wouldn't mind him appearing at all - I thought that he was more injured than Barclay at the moment. Curiouser and curiouser.

[bsando]

Yeah for me Ireland and Wales were always going to be tough nuts to crack in terms of defence. scott hastings says he expects an expansive game, but we all know thats cack! its going to be an arm wrestle. wales will be looking to smash scotland in the same areas as ireland did, cuthbert has run straight over laidlaw in the past and he'll do it again this weekend. the only difference is wales will have the support runners and won't muck up the final pass. wales also score a lot of tries from clever backline play, ie dummy runners. if they don't suck a tackler in they'll block a tackler at the very least and scotland will have to be up quick to deal with threats of this nature.

Scotland will also have to improve at the breakdown, although I do not think they should commit more numbers there, as Wales could give us a taste of our own medicine in terms of counter attacking ability. Harley needs to make a nuisance of himself and it would be nice to see Beattie get some space to run at Wales defence.

It would be really nice to see a change of tactics this weekend from a Scottish perspective. A bit more ball in hand, less safe kicking when on the attack just outside the oppositions half. Jackson would suit that sort of gameplan in my view.

However, the line out is returning to its once formidable self and perhaps Scotland might want to kick for touch deep in Wales half and challenge them there? If so, weir is the bloke needed to achieve that.

[funnyExiledScot]

or being kept on ice for Edinburgh late Rabo charge?

[funnyExiledScot]

the only difference is wales will have the support runners and won't muck up the final pass

Did you watch the Wales vs Ireland game?? The Welsh passing was dreadful, and they were hardly a better attacking force against France.

I think this will be a hugely physical game. Wales will run hard and direct as they always do, and rely on half breaks and offloads, or quick recycling to get through the gaps. I would not describe Wales as clever, but when they are on their game (and we haven't seen much of that this tournament), they are unstoppable with the intensity they can bring to the contact area.

I actually think that Scotland will prefer the Welsh approach to the Irish. The way in which Ireland wriggled through gaps using Marshall and Earls caused us problems. Cuthbert, Roberts et al are more direct. That's not to say we won't miss the odd tackle against those guys, they are huge, but Lamont and Scott are I think better equipped to deal with the direct and powerful than they are with the sly and crafty.

Still, England were direct and look what happened. Hopefully Wales won't be as sharp as that. If we can get to Phillips and wind him up, and target Biggar (who I'm yet to be convinced by), then hopefully we can disrupt the Welsh rhythm.

I think Wales will win by 5-8 points, but I think it'll be a good hard physical game of rugby, and I expect possession to be more evenly distributed than against Ireland. Wales are good at the breakdown, but not as savvy.

[RDW]

or being kept on ice for Edinburgh late Rabo charge?

Could happen! 9th place is more than obtainable...!

[George Carlin]

Exceptional confidence from Wales fans, it seems.

This reaction is very interesting to Scotland fans like us - used to being modest in ambition and disappointed in status. Before the France match, Wales had lost 8 on the bounce. The France match was won by a try in the last 8 minutes, cemented by a penalty in the last 4 minutes. Against Ireland, Wales were turned over 14 times. Despite all this, apparently Wales are going to massacre Scotland. Do no other Welsh fans suspect it might be, well, a bit closer than that?

[funnyExiledScot]

or being kept on ice for Edinburgh late Rabo charge?

Could happen! 9th place is more than obtainable...!

I wish I had your optimism. I'm looking down rather than up!! The first scores I look for after checking the Edinburgh score is Zebre and the Dragons. We basically need to ensure they don't win anymore games.

In fact, what would cap this season off perfectly would be finding out that Piers Francis wasn't eligible to play badly for us in the first place, and that we get docked enough points to finish below the Zebras. I wouldn't be surprised.

[funnyExiledScot]

Exceptional confidence from Wales fans, it seems.

This reaction is very interesting to Scotland fans like us - used to being modest in ambition and disappointed in status. Before the France match, Wales had lost 8 on the bounce. The France match was won by a try in the last 8 minutes, cemented by a penalty in the last 4 minutes. Against Ireland, Wales were turned over 14 times. Despite all this, apparently Wales are going to massacre Scotland. Do no other Welsh fans suspect it might be, well, a bit closer than that?

GC - don't be silly. How can a team with world class Lions in every jersey not expect to thrash little old Scotland? The match is a mere formality as they progress to yet another Grand Slam.

I wish I could be Welsh.

[RDW]

Exceptional confidence from Wales fans, it seems.

This reaction is very interesting to Scotland fans like us - used to being modest in ambition and disappointed in status. Before the France match, Wales had lost 8 on the bounce. The France match was won by a try in the last 8 minutes, cemented by a penalty in the last 4 minutes. Against Ireland, Wales were turned over 14 times. Despite all this, apparently Wales are going to massacre Scotland. Do no other Welsh fans suspect it might be, well, a bit closer than that?

GC - don't be silly. How can a team with world class Lions in every jersey not expect to thrash little old Scotland? The match is a mere formality as they progress to yet another Grand Slam.

I wish I could be Welsh.

And let’s not forget – they’ve managed that without ‘the best blindside flanker since Richard Hill’ and ‘the lions captain elect’!

[RubyGuby]

Cut the victimization stuff FFS you're in danger of perpetuating the scottish stereotype here by whinging so much. This remains a 50/50 game as 90% of fans have suggested - There are as many scots as there are welsh on here suggesting they are going to win - good luck to all of them, but please spare us the we're not worthy crxp

[RuggerRadge2611]

As for the best blind side flanker since Hill, was I the only one who thought Lydiate (a very good player btw) is perhaps exaggerated by Welsh fans a bit?

He is a really good player but I certainly don't think he is better than Ryan Jones or Ferris for Ireland or even Brown for Scotland if I'm honest.

[funnyExiledScot]

As for the best blind side flanker since Hill, was I the only one who thought Lydiate (a very good player btw) is perhaps exaggerated by Welsh fans a bit?

He is a really good player but I certainly don't think he is better than Ryan Jones or Ferris for Ireland or even Brown for Scotland if I'm honest.

Best blindside flanker "since Hill"!! Nonsense. Lydiate can do more in 80 minutes than Hill in his entire career. There's nothing Lydiate cannot do. If he is fit this summer, Australia have as much chance as Scotland do this weekend. Simply making up the numbers.

[Cyril]

Don't forget Wales have the 'Lions Front Row' too!

[RDW]

It is one of my pet hates on here how much Lydiate is talked up as being world class and one of the best 6’s in the world. He had a good 6N last year by basically tackling – a lot. He is a very good disruptive 6 but is no where near the class of Richard Hill, and I would take Ferris, Wood and Kelly Eyebrows over him any day.

It also enrages me that his name is mentioned as a potential for the Lions tour – he has been injured for a year and is in one of the most competitive positions going!

[RubyGuby]

Well I'm afraid your going to be disappointed RDW as Lydiate will be going with the Lions this year - By the way he had more than a good 6 nations last year as many of the independent observers have attested to. Jeeez this time last year all we were getting was Denton as being the 2nd coming of number 8's. I'm afraid Dan will just illustrate that class is permanent and form is temporary much like Denton and the not so killer B's

9/10

[RDW]

Well I'm afraid your going to be disappointed RDW as Lydiate will be going with the Lions this year - By the way he had more than a good 6 nations last year as many of the independent observers have attested to. Jeeez this time last year all we were getting was Denton as being the 2nd coming of number 8's. I'm afraid Dan will just illustrate that class is permanent and form is temporary much like Denton and the not so killer B's

9/10

This is what we're talking about - you really think he will travel even though he hasn't played for a year and will miss the whole 6N?

His Dragons form for the remaining 5/6 games will be enough will it?

[RDW]

BTW I'm with you on Denton - God knows what's happened to him!

[funnyExiledScot]

By the way he had more than a good 6 nations last year as many of the independent observers have attested to

You mean Jonathan Davies?

Dr Robson loves a good challenge. That's why I think Lydiate should go. Hell, I'd even make him captain. You know he won't be fit for the Tests so you wouldn't have the issue of not being able to pick your best XV because of a captaincy decision you made several months back.

It would be a shrewd move.

[RubyGuby]

RDW - I know he will travel - he is fit and will be in the squad against England - Gatland will want to take his best players and if fit he will be going. The coach knows what the player brings to the team and if fit there's nothing much else to discuss other than you suggesting that a lesser player is taken because he's played in the 6 Nations - That's just non-sensical as Gatland will want the best available at the time of choosing

[RuggerRadge2611]

If Lydiate does tour it is a travesty. It means one of the following: Wood, Harley, Brown, Croft, R Jones will not tour.

Despite all playing good rugby either for their clubs or their countries.

Currently the Blindside flanker positions will be going to Wood, Brown and Ryan Jones. Barring injury I can't see that changing and if it does in order to accommodate Lydiate it is a poor show of Gatland's authority.

Currently Lydiate is not fit and even if he was would you really drop either Ryan Jones (the incumbent Welsh Captain) or Tipuric (the form 7 for Wales at the moment) to accommodate him?

[funnyExiledScot]

Tone down the sense Radge, we're talking to the Welsh.

Incidentally, does the mean that you know you're talking nonsense?

[RubyGuby]

Wood is the only player who has consistently shown in this years 6 Nations - The suggestion of Harley is laughable and Brown, Ryan and Croft will all be very lucky to get on the plane

[R!skysports]

Anyway - my team

1. Grant - playing great
2. Ford - getting better again - keep improving
3. Murray - tough one, as though Cross played well. Just think cross will be the better impact
4. Gray - getting stuck in
5. Hamilton - worthy of his place - needs to keep it up
6. Brown - in his position
7. Barclay - B's are back in town
8. Beattie - Boom
9. Laidlaw - Kick less young man
10. Wier - Needs to bring his Glasgow game - much more potential
11. Visser - needs to get into the game more
12. Scott - played well
13. Dunbar - need a centre - too often Lamont out of position
14. Maitland - good player
15. Hogg -Mr Zoooooooom

16. Hall
17. Cross
18. Low
19. Kellock
20. Denton
21. Pyrgos
22. Jackson
23. Lamont

[RDW]

Wood is the only player who has consistently shown in this years 6 Nations - The suggestion of Harley is laughable and Brown, Ryan and Croft will all be very lucky to get on the plane

If Lydiate is chosen over one of the form 6's in the 6N I will personally fly down to London and punch Gatland in the face.

Kelly Brown is the top tackler and has the most turnovers this 6N so far.

[TJ1]

Scotland will have to contest the bre3akdownmuch better than they have done and play field position better.

I suspect we will see Wales bosh bosh game up the centres be nullified and the quick Scots back three getting round / thru and past the welsh a fair amount.

I think a fiar few tries and Scotland to win by the odd try.

[R!skysports]

Wood is the only player who has consistently shown in this years 6 Nations - The suggestion of Harley is laughable and Brown, Ryan and Croft will all be very lucky to get on the plane

If Lydiate is chosen over one of the form 6's in the 6N I will personally fly down to London and punch Gatland in the face.

Kelly Brown is the top tackler and has the most turnovers this 6N so far.

Agreed

even playing out of position Brown has performed outstandingly - as he does for Sarries week in week out

The difficulty for may fans (and commentators) is they just do not play attention to the dirty work some players do - they just want someone who runs with flapping legs

You need a Brown to allow the Beatties to take the stage - and I can tell you Brown is one of the best around (at 6)

[funnyExiledScot]

On Murray vs Cross I don't have a strong view. Murray had the jersey at the start and didn't play badly. Cross played well against Ireland, against all expectations.

It's a nice problem to have.

Not sure I'd have Low on the bench as loosehead cover ahead of Jon Welsh, but Ryan seems to prefer Low at loosehead, and I'm willing to have faith.

The other one is Weir vs Jackson. My preference for Jackson is frankly weakening with every game Weir plays. Again, it's nice to be able to have a debate which isn't focused on who the least bad option is. Heathcote apparently played well for Bath at the weekend as well.

I suspect Lamont will keep his jersey against Wales - they'll want his big hits against North, Cuthbert et al. I would strongly prefer Dunbar on the bench ahead of Max Evans.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Wood is the only player who has consistently shown in this years 6 Nations - The suggestion of Harley is laughable and Brown, Ryan and Croft will all be very lucky to get on the plane

I would really love for you to clarify why you think Kelly Brown (the current 6 nations tackle leader & Turnover winner) will be "very lucky to get on the plane :insert condescending thumbs up smiley:" .

Currently Jones, Brown and Wood are playing much better rugby than Lydiate who has been on his erse for the last 7 months doing nothing but rehabilitation and fitness work. He has no match fitness, no game time and IMO no chance of making the trip unless he is one of "Gat's little faves".

Take Beattie for example, in 2010 he was amazing, without a doubt one of the best players in the 6N, rampaging up and down the park and crashing through just about everyone that opposed him. Then came a dislocated shoulder, rehab, and the rugby wilderness. It has taken him 2 years to get back into the Scotland squad... is Lydiate some kind of superman who just has to turn up to be considered?

[RubyGuby]

Kelly Brown is the top tackler because your team are always on the back foot - work it out - That stat alone is useless - You'll be saying he's a better tackler than Lydiate next

[George Carlin]

Can open. Worms everywhere. My bad.

Ruby - I realise that Scotland are not Welsh enough to win at the weekend, but you have to allow us our sport.

[RubyGuby]

is Lydiate some kind of superman who just has to turn up to be considered? - YES

he is one of "Gat's little faves". - YES

Next stupid question please

[RubyGuby]

Can open. Worms everywhere. My bad.

Ruby - I realise that Scotland are not Welsh enough to win at the weekend, but you have to allow us our sport.

George - the game remains a 50/50 - why the sour stuff from the scots I don't know, like a bunch of blxxdy victims, poor us - It's an even match up irrespective of what history and the bookies tell us and Wales will have to be at their very best to win there (again)

[George Carlin]

Kelly Brown is the top tackler because your team are always on the back foot - work it out - That stat alone is useless - You'll be saying he's a better tackler than Lydiate next

The second top tackler was Tipuric. Does that make him more useless than Kelly Brown? Or less useless?

[RDW]

Next stupid question please

Why should Sexton and Farrel tour when Henson played a blinder in 2005?

[George Carlin]

Can open. Worms everywhere. My bad.

Ruby - I realise that Scotland are not Welsh enough to win at the weekend, but you have to allow us our sport.

George - the game remains a 50/50 - why the sour stuff from the scots I don't know, like a bunch of blxxdy victims, poor us - It's an even match up irrespective of what history and the bookies tell us and Wales will have to be at their very best to win there (again)

You're a good man, Ruby.

Now all we have to do is to drain your magnanimousness and reasonableness with a syringe and inject some of your fellows with it.

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