2013 Lions Squad Announcement - Live updates & Discussion

First topic message reminder :

I'm at work with no access to TV/Radio for the big annoucement. I'd be gretful if some of my 606v2 brethern could provide updates as names are announced for the tour.

Please don't turn this into a debate about who should/shouldn't be on tour until after all the names are up, to keep the page clean for others to see the names of the sqaud.

Thanking you in advance

2103 British & Irish Lions Tour Sqaud:

Cian Healy
Tom Youngs
Richard Hibbard
Dylan Hartley
Dan Cole
Adam Jones
Matt Stevens
Mako Vunipola
Richie Gray
Alun Wyn Jones
Paul O’Connell
Geoff Parling
Tom Croft
Sean O’Brien
Justin Tipuric
Toby Faletau
Sam Warburton (C)
Ben Youngs
Mike Phillips
Owen Farrell
George North
Jamie Roberts
Brian O’Driscoll
Manu Tuilagi
Alex Cuthbert
Leigh Halfpenny
Conor Murray
Rob Kearney
Ian Evans
Gethin Jenkins
Dan Lydiate
Jamie Heaslip
Johnathan Sexton
Jonathan Davies
Tommy Bowe
Stuart Hogg
Sean Maitland

Wales: 15
England: 10
Ireland: 9
Scotland: 3

Sky SPorts news are at quins training ground...

Not surprising Robshaw didn't make the squad as most of the English forwards were found out...

TOM Frak YOUNGS

DYLAN Frak HARTLEY

VUNI Frak POLA

Robshaw was immense against Wales, only Englishman to prove his worth!!!

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote: Even Warburton finished the tournament strongly.

Between League and Six Nations just how many big games has Warburton had this season?

This season- 16 times for the Blues. Not sure about Wales.

Zebo should be there ahead of Maitland. But it is marginal.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well the positive is that hes picked players that contrast and offer options..

Ie in the back row.
Lydiate - the tackler, the rucker...
O'Brien - The bruising ball carrier
Croft - The fast lineout option.

Hooker
Hartley - Despite his critics (and im one)...good technically - lineout, very good rucker.
Hibbard - A sheer beast of a guy
Youngs - Dynamic, good ball carrier

We did know some very good players would miss out...but Stevens...pah Gatland dropped a clanger there...

Please take your rational thought elsewhere, we are all too busy venting a spleen! (me included!)

Golden wrote:Dont think even Hartleys dad would have picked him, obviously the same cant be said for Mr Farrell

+1

If Farrell didn't go, who would?

Right then, this should cause some arguments, pick your first fifteen out of that lot, then pick you midweek team, then decide who are on the bench.

Surprised Rory Best and Chris Robshaw didn't get picked. To contenders for captain. They are the main omissions for me.

Stevens is a strange call as is Hartley. The rest are more or less as expected.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I’m gonna support the squad to the hillt but as a Scotsman it is massively disappointing to see Matt bloody Stevens picked over Grant and Lydiate (hardly played any rugby) over Brown (had a storming season).

Really can’t for the life of me understand why Hartley is in there – the Aussies are going to massively target him.

Pretty much my feelings too. I can accept Beattie, Laidlaw and Scott missing out. But Brown being shafted for Lydiate?? Grant being shafted for soon to retire Stevens??? It seems pretty harsh to me. Kelly Brown will be very disappointed, mainly because he's barley put a foot wrong.

Maitland would be in the frame for the All Blacks with Jane's injury now had he stayed in NZ. He'll definitely acquit himself well and is class. Though I think Bowe and North will and should be the starting wings.

Farrell over Wilko surprises me. I'd have gone for Wilko-but maybe the depth from which he plays killed his chances. They have to play on the gain line at pace which is why Sexton will start the tests IMO.

I didn't think Warburton would be assured of his place at all with the calibre of the other loosies-BOD would have been my preferred skip.

If England were going to have presence in one area the tight five would be it and it's worked out that way. The scrum will look to destroy Australia but they can't focus on that too much as they'll lose. This squad has a lot of weapons across the park and it would be criminal to ignore them to focus on the Wallabies' achilles heel. They'll scrummage better than we think, especially in the eyes of the referee I feel so this perception of dominance may turn out to be a poisoned chalice.

Good luck to the players, looking forward to enjoying two cracking series this summer.
Vunipola is a surprise as is no Best. Maybe the lineout is one of Gatland's chief concerns.

Three fullbacks but only two OHs. Does that make sense?

Does Grant offer anything that Healy and Jenkins don't? Vunipola and Stevens are just 3rd choice in their position and offer more of a running game that the other 3rd choice props.

Hartley though??????

You can see the test team already that Gatland has in mind:

Halfpenny, North, Cuthbert, Davies, Roberts, Farrell, Phillips, Faletau, Lydiate, Warburton, Evans, AW Jones, A Jones, Hibbard, Jenkins

I am a bit disappointed with the number of Scots in the squad. Don't think we deserved many more, but Brown and Grant would have brought it up to a respectable number.

Wonder how much input Rowntre had with the front row selections?Some weird calls.Best and Grant must be gutted.
No utility back could prove a problem for bench cover.
We will have to see.
Cannot remember Stevens playing well.Bizarre.

There are more Scots than last tour if I remember rightly...

3 Scots isn't an honest reflection IMO and I was pretty confident of more going on this tour.

really disappointed to see Grant and Brown miss out, but on the other hand I'll be pleased to have them for Scotland's tour. I've said before I don't think players who have been injured all season and only just come back should be selected, regardless of pedigree, one or two games of good form is not enough to earn Lions selection for me, so I wouldn't have Lydiate or O'Connell there in positions where there are other strong options. Also disagree with the selections of Stevens, Murray, Croft but it's done now and I'll be backing the squad from now on.

Just hope the lack of cover at 10 doesn't come back to haunt them. Seems a crazy decision, both Sexton and Farrell guaranteed to be involved in every single match! Expect Biggar, Hook or Wilkinson to receive a late call up when one of them is injured.

nlpnlp wrote:Does Grant offer anything that Healy and Jenkins don't? Vunipola and Stevens are just 3rd choice in their position and offer more of a running game that the other 3rd choice props.

Hartley though??????

You think Stevens offers a running game???

So no real cover for 10 then

LordDowlais wrote:Right then, this should cause some arguments, pick your first fifteen out of that lot, then pick you midweek team, then decide who are on the bench.

Lord

I'm worried about that because now the test team is pretty readable, Hartley and Youngs are no contest for Hibbard, Healy has to start, Evans will start with Grey/AWJ, Warburton has to start now, and there is no real comp to the only natural 8, Blindside is a worry, Phillips will deffo start, as will Sexton, Roberts and Davies in midfield and the Welsh back 3.

Healy
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
Grey
Lydiate
Warbs
Heaslip
Phillips
Sexton
North
Roberts
Davies
Cuthbert
1/2p

Gatlands favourite 15 will be pretty similar to that I think, with the likes of Youngs, Vunipola, Parling, Croft, SOB, Youngs, Hogg, Tuilagi off the bench for dynamism and gamebreaking.

Gatl;ands squad looks like an open book to me.

Pot Hale wrote:You can see the test team already that Gatland has in mind:

Halfpenny, North, Cuthbert, Davies, Roberts, Farrell, Phillips, Faletau, Lydiate, Warburton, Evans, AW Jones, A Jones, Hibbard, Jenkins

Looks about right to me, although I would have Sexton in for Farrell.

nlpnlp wrote:Does Grant offer anything that Healy and Jenkins don't? Vunipola and Stevens are just 3rd choice in their position and offer more of a running game that the other 3rd choice props.

Hartley though??????

Yes, much more

He can scrum - which puts him ahead of Stevens

He can run and tackle

Sorry this tour is just lost a lot of shine for me

bsando wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I’m gonna support the squad to the hillt but as a Scotsman it is massively disappointing to see Matt bloody Stevens picked over Grant and Lydiate (hardly played any rugby) over Brown (had a storming season).

Really can’t for the life of me understand why Hartley is in there – the Aussies are going to massively target him.

Pretty much my feelings too. I can accept Beattie, Laidlaw and Scott missing out. But Brown being shafted for Lydiate?? Grant being shafted for soon to retire Stevens??? It seems pretty harsh to me. Kelly Brown will be very disappointed, mainly because he's barley put a foot wrong.

I can see why Brown wasn't chosen (not a speedster like Croft who will be gazelle-like on the fast grounds, not a Gatland prodigy like Lydiate who has played a handful of games all year) and we have to also remember that his fellow blindside Robshaw wasn't either but it does rather expose the lie that form matters to any great extent to Gatland.

Those people questioning the inclusion of Maitland must be out of their minds - it was one of Gatland's better calls. He is the best defensive wing in the NH, was top try scorer in the Super 15 in 2011 and has the playbook on his Australian opposition. He's only been eligible to play for less than a year and was playing in a team expressly instructed to kick the ball away. How many caps is he expected to have? He would start with North on the wings for me.

Grant being discarded for Stevens is not justifable by any measure but I still think that the worst call of all is leaving behind Best for Hartley, whom the Aussies will sledge and draw penalties from all day long.

But the most infuriating part is the "journalists" acting like the world revolves around Wilkinson!

No surprised Drico was picked. Backed him from day 1.

nlpnlp wrote:Does Grant offer anything that Healy and Jenkins don't? Vunipola and Stevens are just 3rd choice in their position and offer more of a running game that the other 3rd choice props.

Hartley though??????

Note Grant's 2 tries and another great break against the Ospreys last week, just as an example of his ability in the loose. There's no problem in that department!

Farrell

So the only Welsh starter to miss out is Dan Biggar. He must feel pretty gutted today.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Right then, this should cause some arguments, pick your first fifteen out of that lot, then pick you midweek team, then decide who are on the bench.

Lord

I'm worried about that because now the test team is pretty readable, Hartley and Youngs are no contest for Hibbard, Healy has to start, Evans will start with Grey/AWJ, Warburton has to start now, and there is no real comp to the only natural 8, Blindside is a worry, Phillips will deffo start, as will Sexton, Roberts and Davies in midfield and the Welsh back 3.

Healy
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
Grey
Lydiate
Warbs
Heaslip
Phillips
Sexton
North
Roberts
Davies
Cuthbert
1/2p

Gatlands favourite 15 will be pretty similar to that I think, with the likes of Youngs, Vunipola, Parling, Croft, SOB, Youngs, Hogg, Tuilagi off the bench for dynamism and gamebreaking.

Gatl;ands squad looks like an open book to me.

I honestly think that side would beat the Aussies hands down, and I would be hard faught to pick a better first 15 than that out of the players that are going.

Funny I don't hear any Welsh questioning Jenkins or Lydiate.

Not surprised that Brown missed out. He's not Welsh,Irish,English or a media darling. Plus playing for the most unfashionable club around doesn't help either.

Does make me chuckle that Stevens,Vunipola and Farrell have caused so much outrage.

Stevens would be 3rd choice tight head anyway behind Cole and A.Jones. What other 3s have done enough to warrant selection?

Vunipola will also be 3rd choice loosehead. It was a realistic 50/50 with Grant for that last slot. Plus Vunipola has had a very good season even if he does play for an unfashionable club.

Farrell is 2nd choice behind Sexton at fly half. It's again debatable but he's still done a lot this season even he is derided by most people on these forums.

At least these players have shown good form over a season (not every game admittedly) but more so than Lydiate for example.

Some odd choices, I am dissapointed that there is no utility or flair back in just to make Australia think that we might have a plan B... Twelvetrees or Hook would have been useful to have on the plane.

Also not sure if there are enough totally committed/passionate(with sense) forwards, if Lydiate doesn't recover form then Robshaw would be a very reliable and totally commited 6 and Ryan Jones would have brought real oomph off the bench at 6, 8 or 4

A huge amount seems to ride on Sexton's fitness, not just to play but to last the whole match, Farrell looked extremely nervy on the weekend, he can certainly win matches but he could loose them as well.... I wouldn't want to see him comming on to close out the game!

Sad to see no real young wildcard picks .... the only wildcards seem to be ones that have been tried and discarded or just haven't shown any recent form.

haha awesome Sean Maitland interview with Sky

I noticed just now that the exclusion of Brown, Best and Robshaw means that Warburton is the only national captain going. Any chance that was so that he didn't feel usurped?

Bathite wrote:"the benchmark was the 6 nations"

So that explains, Croft, Heaslip, Warburton, Tupuric, Hartley, Stevens, Jenkins, all of whom were poor or none existent.

Didn't watch the 6 nations then...

You really think that backline is good enough?

screamingaddabs wrote:I noticed just now that the exclusion of Brown, Best and Robshaw means that Warburton is the only national captain going. Any chance that was so that he didn't feel usurped?

No.

Clearly there was pressure from sponsors to select English players so Gats picked Stevens and Hartley for the laugh.

Good auld Gats, hes some craic!

I don't understand why they haven't just taken an extra player to cover 10 - Hook or Madigan would have been my suggestions, but I could equally have gotten comfortable with Wilkinson joining up late as back-up. Taking only two 10's is odd.

Best is extremely unlucky to lose out to Youngs, probably the most controversial omission.

Stevens would have been up against Murray and Ross I suspect, and Gatland has gone for the more mobile option, given that both Cole and Jones (excellent scrummagers) are also going. Vunipola had a huge carrying game against Toulon, and I think that probably edged out Ryan Grant, who must have been close. I can understand both decisions.

Gray is a lucky boy given his form for Sale and current injury situation, and Launchberry and Ryan can certainly feel they couldn't have done much more.

I predicted that both Brown and Robshaw would miss out so I'm not surprised. I can understand the decision. I'm more surprised at Tom Croft going ahead of Tom Wood, but perhaps with Gray in the second row, Gatland wants that added lineout expertise coming from the flank.

The only real surprise for me in the backs is the missing option at 10. Many have been talking up Maitland for a while, and he is a very good footballing winger. No weak link there. Danny Care may feel that he's a better attacking option than Connor Murray, but I don't feel particularly strongly about that call.

Anyone care to lay odds that O'Driscoll will not start a single test?

LordDowlais wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Right then, this should cause some arguments, pick your first fifteen out of that lot, then pick you midweek team, then decide who are on the bench.

Lord

I'm worried about that because now the test team is pretty readable, Hartley and Youngs are no contest for Hibbard, Healy has to start, Evans will start with Grey/AWJ, Warburton has to start now, and there is no real comp to the only natural 8, Blindside is a worry, Phillips will deffo start, as will Sexton, Roberts and Davies in midfield and the Welsh back 3.

Healy
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
Grey
Lydiate
Warbs
Heaslip
Phillips
Sexton
North
Roberts
Davies
Cuthbert
1/2p

Gatlands favourite 15 will be pretty similar to that I think, with the likes of Youngs, Vunipola, Parling, Croft, SOB, Youngs, Hogg, Tuilagi off the bench for dynamism and gamebreaking.

Gatl;ands squad looks like an open book to me.

I honestly think that side would beat the Aussies hands down, and I would be hard faught to pick a better first 15 than that out of the players that are going.

That are going, I would much prefer to see Best at hook, Robshaw at blindside and a 10 option off the bench, not to mention I'd prefer the 10's not to have to play in EVERY game!!

Overall not a bad squad, some real suprises there most have pointed out (I would have gone Brown over Lydiate, Grant/James over Stevens, Best over Hartley.)

Most of the calls are pretty close run things though and the players to have missed out wouldnt necessarily offer anything that the player selected doesnt.

Warbs as captain is probably wrong n all.

I prefer the reaction more than the selection!

Tipuric 'didnt' play well in the 6nations for instance....

christ.

Cardiff Taffy wrote:So the only Welsh starter to miss out is Dan Biggar. He must feel pretty gutted today.

Never been the apple of Gatland's eye. Would not surprise me when Gatland returns that he would not play again.

I'll pick a starting XV.

Halfpenny, Bowe, O'Driscoll, Roberts, North, Sexton, Youngs, Heaslip, Warburton, O'Brien, O'Connel, Parling, Jones, Hartley, Healy.

Jenkins, Hibbard, Cole, Gray, Croft, Phillips, Farrell, Maitland or Hogg.

To be fair, my opinion on this selection is changing every few minutes. Perhaps in a couple of days it will all make perfect sense.

It's not awful I guess. If we look at the last lions tour it's clear that the squad selected isn't the squad they end up with. In the final test last time our centres were Flutey and Bowe for instance!

[quote="mckay1402"][quote="Bathite"]"the benchmark was the 6 nations"

So that explains, Croft, Heaslip, Warburton, Tupuric, Hartley, Stevens, Jenkins, all of whom were poor or none existent.

He did also say they included games that had the same intensity as the 6 nations over the past few weeks which means they will have looked at the Heineken Cup and probably took into account performances in that.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Cardiff Taffy wrote:So the only Welsh starter to miss out is Dan Biggar. He must feel pretty gutted today.

Never been the apple of Gatland's eye. Would not surprise me when Gatland returns that he would not play again.

He isn't picked because he's not good enough yet.

Worrying that the team has little alternative for additional playmaker when Farrell plays. He will be part of the test 23 thats for sure.

He's proved time and time again he can't run a backline on his own.... when he does he looks ill at ease. Goode helps him out with England, can halfpenny take that mantle... I don't think he is that type of player.

Roberts, Tuilagi, BOD, Davies... none of them distributing centres.

I think the balance is wrong if Farrell is playing.

Does Jonathan Davies play 12? I thought he was more of a 13, in which case there are three 13's there and only one 12? Farrell to cover 12?

£5 says he trys Hogg at 10 at some point over the tour. He played there all through youth level and switched to 15 when he turned pro so maybe he sees him as extra 10 cover? Nobody else in the backs seems to have previous 10 experience (outside of the fly halfs)