2013 Lions Squad Announcement - Live updates & Discussion

First topic message reminder :

I'm at work with no access to TV/Radio for the big annoucement. I'd be gretful if some of my 606v2 brethern could provide updates as names are announced for the tour.

Please don't turn this into a debate about who should/shouldn't be on tour until after all the names are up, to keep the page clean for others to see the names of the sqaud.

Thanking you in advance

2103 British & Irish Lions Tour Sqaud:

Cian Healy
Tom Youngs
Richard Hibbard
Dylan Hartley
Dan Cole
Adam Jones
Matt Stevens
Mako Vunipola
Richie Gray
Alun Wyn Jones
Paul O’Connell
Geoff Parling
Tom Croft
Sean O’Brien
Justin Tipuric
Toby Faletau
Sam Warburton (C)
Ben Youngs
Mike Phillips
Owen Farrell
George North
Jamie Roberts
Brian O’Driscoll
Manu Tuilagi
Alex Cuthbert
Leigh Halfpenny
Conor Murray
Rob Kearney
Ian Evans
Gethin Jenkins
Dan Lydiate
Jamie Heaslip
Johnathan Sexton
Jonathan Davies
Tommy Bowe
Stuart Hogg
Sean Maitland

Wales: 15
England: 10
Ireland: 9
Scotland: 3

Im gutted ferris can't make it, imo the best in the NH.

Tramptastic wrote:£5 says he trys Hogg at 10 at some point over the tour. He played there all through youth level and switched to 15 when he turned pro so maybe he sees him as extra 10 cover? Nobody else in the backs seems to have previous 10 experience (outside of the fly halfs)

Mate Will Greenwood play flyhalf for England up to U18s... and he was no flyhalf. Same goes for Hogg.

screamingaddabs wrote:I noticed just now that the exclusion of Brown, Best and Robshaw means that Warburton is the only national captain going. Any chance that was so that he didn't feel usurped?

Your wrong. Heaslip is Ireland's captain and he was picked.

mikey_philVIII wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Cardiff Taffy wrote:So the only Welsh starter to miss out is Dan Biggar. He must feel pretty gutted today.

Never been the apple of Gatland's eye. Would not surprise me when Gatland returns that he would not play again.

He isn't picked because he's not good enough yet.

He's got a blydi head start on Farrell.

Some thoughts


Red - totally bonkers and obviously being pressured to fulfil quotas for TV (IMO)

Brown - very lucky, but you could argue, especially if you are biased

Cian Healy
Tom Youngs
Richard Hibbard
Dylan Hartley
Dan Cole
Adam Jones
Matt Stevens
Mako Vunipola
Richie Gray
Alun Wyn Jones
Paul O’Connell
Geoff Parling
Tom Croft
Sean O’Brien
Justin Tipuric
Toby Faletau
Sam Warburton (C)
Ben Youngs
Mike Phillips
Owen Farrell
George North
Jamie Roberts
Brian O’Driscoll
Manu Tuilagi
Alex Cuthbert
Leigh Halfpenny
Conor Murray
Rob Kearney
Ian Evans
Gethin Jenkins
Dan Lydiate
Jamie Heaslip
Johnathan Sexton
Jonathan Davies
Tommy Bowe
Stuart Hogg
Sean Maitland

Wales: 15
England: 10
Ireland: 9
Scotland: 3

Pat_Mustard wrote:Does Jonathan Davies play 12? I thought he was more of a 13, in which case there are three 13's there and only one 12? Farrell to cover 12?

He actually was a 12 until he started playing for wales because Roberts was already in at 12. Gats moved him out to 13 and he's been there ever since but can play both

beshocked wrote:Funny I don't hear any Welsh questioning Jenkins or Lydiate.

Well scroll up and read with both eyes then jackass. A number of us questioned Lydiate being there. Not Jenkins though. No need to question the inclusion of a class player.

When will Jenkins join the tour?

rainbow-warrior wrote:

mikey_philVIII wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Cardiff Taffy wrote:So the only Welsh starter to miss out is Dan Biggar. He must feel pretty gutted today.

Never been the apple of Gatland's eye. Would not surprise me when Gatland returns that he would not play again.

He isn't picked because he's not good enough yet.

He's got a blydi head start on Farrell.

Not sure what you're getting at? Farrell was playing for England all last year so has more experience and is better than Biggar. Perhaps Biggar is on stand by?

Wilkinson to be announced as the 3rd flyhalf shortly!

JD2 is originally a 12, but has adapted to play 13. I'd say he's competent at the highest level in either position, hes becoming a complete centre.

Pat_Mustard wrote:Does Jonathan Davies play 12? I thought he was more of a 13, in which case there are three 13's there and only one 12? Farrell to cover 12?

Theres only 2 10's, no way can one cover another position!!!

BOD played 12 last tour out, and Davies plays there at club level.

TBH the backline has picked itself, and there definately will be at least another 10 going out, wether it be Wilko joining late, or Hook/Laidlaw/Biggar coming in.

I just can't get over there being no Robshaw, or Brown and the likes of Lydiate and Croft are going?!?!?!!?!?!?!?

Stevens is just a third choice nothing prop IMHO, and not really surprising.

fa0019 wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:£5 says he trys Hogg at 10 at some point over the tour. He played there all through youth level and switched to 15 when he turned pro so maybe he sees him as extra 10 cover? Nobody else in the backs seems to have previous 10 experience (outside of the fly halfs)

Mate Will Greenwood play flyhalf for England up to U18s... and he was no flyhalf. Same goes for Hogg.

Aye, I'm not saying he is, no-one is saying he is but Gatland appears to be verging on insane with some of his selections so does playing a former 10 who plays 15, at 10 seem out of kilter with the man who picked Stevens, Lydiate and Hartley?

If Sexton is injured, WTF is gonna happen?

Despite there being 4/5 lucky English tourists Sky sports are amazed Robshaw and Wilko havn't gone...

Gethin can cover 10

Fellas. Making this a sticky.

On a side note, controversy aside, congratulations to Tigers who have 6 players in the squad, 5 of whom came through the academy.

kingjohn7 wrote:If Sexton is injured, WTF is gonna happen?

He'll play Philips, pill up the jumper, Halfpenny to boot it away, kick penalties............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, snore.

Linebreaker wrote:Fellas. Making this a sticky.

What's your verdict then Aussie?

I think there's a general consensus here about some of the choices

Hartley and Stevens in particular at the expense of Best/Owens and A N Other is disappointing. I would also have preferred Hines to AWJ. Bowe and Lydiate are just class so I understand the reasoning there and have no problem. Time to wait and see. Hook for Kearney would have given us a lot more flexibility but hey ho

thebluesmancometh wrote:Despite there being 4/5 maybe 2 lucky English tourists Sky sports are amazed Robshaw and Wilko havn't gone...

Wilko - yes, a real icon, but Sky / journos generally a bit too Jonny obsessed.
Me, I mainly feel sorry for Robshaw & Best.

Agree with many of you -

Backs: other than the selection of only 2 10s and a lack of a creative option at 12/13, not many surprises and certainly nothing that absolutely shocked. Tommy Bowe probably the luckiest selection, but he is a class winger and if he's fit enough he's good enough.

Forwards: Much more controversial. 2nd row generally as expected, but the others?
Stevens as 3rd choice TH is a shock considering how badly he performed in his last internationals.
Mako Vuniopola as 3rd choice LH slightly less of a shock as it is obvious he could be an impact player, but his discipline and set piece work still need improving. At least he's a young talent whose career is moving the right way.

Hartley at hooker? Can only assume that Gatland is defrauding Ladbrooks somehow. For me he's clearly now fallen to 2nd in England's pecking order, and at least Best should be ahead of him.

Heaslip - must have shown good club form recently, as he was abject in the 6Ns by his usual standards. Very lucky pick given Beattie and Morgan's form.

Lydiate - OK, last year he was good, but he's hardly played since late summer, so VERY lucky to get in in a position of strength.

Croft - Picked on reputation from the previous Lions tour and the hunch that he should go well in fast running conditions. Considering that Brown, Wood and Robshaw have all been left at home after variously good or outstanding 6Ns tournaments, I'm struggling to justify either Croft or Lydiate being picked.

dummy_half wrote:

Heaslip - must have shown good club form recently, as he was abject in the 6Ns by his usual standards. Very lucky pick given Beattie and Morgan's form.

If you looked to 6N performance this year you wouldn't have one Irish player on the team, nevermind the one you isolate. Luckily enough a season runs much longer than 5 International games for some players. For some though, 5 games is enough to prove worthiness

mikey_philVIII wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:Fellas. Making this a sticky.

What's your verdict then Aussie?

Not bad.
Shocked with Best's omission the most. Feel a little sorry for Robshaw, Brown and Scott.
A little surprised with the selection Stevens, Hartley, Farrell, Lydiate and Vunipola (though he may do well).
Thrilled for Hibbard and Maitland.
Think Phillips, Murray, Kearney and Hogg are good calls... last two might be needed at some stage.

Ireland... Wooden Spooners, have 3x more representation than Scotland, a team that beat them in the 6N.
sigh....

Ireland aren't wooden spooners radge.

The lions are assembled and ready to feed on their prey, a bunch of wobbling wallabies.

dummy_half wrote:Agree with many of you -

Backs: other than the selection of only 2 10s and a lack of a creative option at 12/13, not many surprises and certainly nothing that absolutely shocked. Tommy Bowe probably the luckiest selection, but he is a class winger and if he's fit enough he's good enough.

Forwards: Much more controversial. 2nd row generally as expected, but the others?
Stevens as 3rd choice TH is a shock considering how badly he performed in his last internationals.
Mako Vuniopola as 3rd choice LH slightly less of a shock as it is obvious he could be an impact player, but his discipline and set piece work still need improving. At least he's a young talent whose career is moving the right way.

Hartley at hooker? Can only assume that Gatland is defrauding Ladbrooks somehow. For me he's clearly now fallen to 2nd in England's pecking order, and at least Best should be ahead of him.

Heaslip - must have shown good club form recently, as he was abject in the 6Ns by his usual standards. Very lucky pick given Beattie and Morgan's form.

Lydiate - OK, last year he was good, but he's hardly played since late summer, so VERY lucky to get in in a position of strength.

Croft - Picked on reputation from the previous Lions tour and the hunch that he should go well in fast running conditions. Considering that Brown, Wood and Robshaw have all been left at home after variously good or outstanding 6Ns tournaments, I'm struggling to justify either Croft or Lydiate being picked.

Croft has been outstanding over the last month or so now that he is back to full match fitness, including the Heineken Cup quarter final away at Toulon where he was the best player on the pitch until he had to go off which was probably one of the main reasons Tigers lost that game. He obviously has a reputation for playing well for the Lions and also against Australia but he is also in fantastic form as well. The fact that fast running conditions suit him and that he offers something completely different to all the other back row options will also have been part of the decision.

Lions manager Andy Irvine tells @bbc5live "The truth is Jonny wasn't up for it. He ruled himself out. He told Warren that he feels his body isn't in right shape to complete a tour like this. I admire his honesty and integrity. He could be available as an injury replacement"

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ireland... Wooden Spooners, have 3x more representation than Scotland, a team that beat them in the 6N.
sigh....

And the British bit have 3X more representation than the Irish bit. Relax...it looks different if you look at it through different mirrors.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ireland... Wooden Spooners, have 3x more representation than Scotland, a team that beat them in the 6N.
sigh....

ruggerradge Ireland did beat the powerhouse that is Wales which was of course puts them on a far higher level than those players from England and Scotland.

All hail the legendary Lydiate who can cover every position on the rugby pitch.

Had Grant been picked instead of Vinapolo and Brown instead of Lydiate I would have been happy, further more Best should be in there too, its a bizarre selection!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ireland... Wooden Spooners, have 3x more representation than Scotland, a team that beat them in the 6N.
sigh....

Ireland were injury ravaged though and obviously all things considered a better side than the table suggests. No surprise at any of the Ireland players inclusion. All merited.

GunsGerms wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ireland... Wooden Spooners, have 3x more representation than Scotland, a team that beat them in the 6N.
sigh....

Ireland were injury ravaged though and obviously all things considered a better side than the table suggests. No surprise at any of the Ireland players inclusion. All merited.

I'd argue Heaslip was lucky from his 6Ns form, although certainly think Best is the most unlucky to miss out entirely (Hartley ????).

killer938 wrote:On a side note, controversy aside, congratulations to Tigers who have 6 players in the squad, 5 of whom came through the academy.

Leinster also have 6 Leinster natives in the lions squad.

dummy_half wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ireland... Wooden Spooners, have 3x more representation than Scotland, a team that beat them in the 6N.
sigh....

Ireland were injury ravaged though and obviously all things considered a better side than the table suggests. No surprise at any of the Ireland players inclusion. All merited.

I'd argue Heaslip was lucky from his 6Ns form, although certainly think Best is the most unlucky to miss out entirely (Hartley ????).

...and Steven's 6N form?

beshocked wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ireland... Wooden Spooners, have 3x more representation than Scotland, a team that beat them in the 6N.
sigh....

ruggerradge Ireland did beat the powerhouse that is Wales which was of course puts them on a far higher level than those players from England and Scotland.

All hail the legendary Lydiate who can cover every position on the rugby pitch.

Still bitter after the French once again made it clear to you that Saracens aren't the best team in the world. You and radge and a few others can form your own group now. When you're up and running please stay away from the sensible threads.

I just dont get the double standards. For Gatland to say he is going to be picking on form and then do the following is mindboggling

Vainupulu picked over Grant???
Matt Steves picked over Grant???
Lydiate picked over Brown/Robshaw???
Croft picked over Brown/Robshaw???
Youngs picked over Best??? (I'd even have picked Ford over Youngs, and Ford has been knickers this year)

Wales may well have been 2013 6N's champs but they are over-represented imo. It smacks of jobs for the boys. It just shows that the lions coach (or selectors) should not be the head coach of one of the home nations!

It would seem gatland is going for size and will be looking to smash through the ozzies. Whether or not this is the right tactic will soon be discovered.

I'll still watch the Lions but I'll not really put much heart into it

Tiger - you talk about Wales being over represented when most of the posters are concerned with Hartley and Matt Stevens being included; others with Farrell being included. Which welsh players do you think shouldn't be going and who should replace them.

dummy_half wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ireland... Wooden Spooners, have 3x more representation than Scotland, a team that beat them in the 6N.
sigh....

Ireland were injury ravaged though and obviously all things considered a better side than the table suggests. No surprise at any of the Ireland players inclusion. All merited.

I'd argue Heaslip was lucky from his 6Ns form, although certainly think Best is the most unlucky to miss out entirely (Hartley ????).

Heaslip is so under rated its laughable. The guy is quality. Never in doubt for me. Not many 8 are capable of distroying a team like Biarritz like he did.

When was the last time Scotland had 5+ players on a Lions tour ?

And I wonder why...

munkian wrote:When was the last time Scotland had 5+ players on a Lions tour ?

And I wonder why...

The last time the Lions won a series!

Wilkinson is on stand-by apparently?

tigertattie wrote:I just dont get the double standards. For Gatland to say he is going to be picking on form and then do the following is mindboggling

Vainupulu picked over Grant???
Matt Steves picked over Grant???
Lydiate picked over Brown/Robshaw???
Croft picked over Brown/Robshaw???
Youngs picked over Best??? (I'd even have picked Ford over Youngs, and Ford has been knickers this year)

Wales may well have been 2013 6N's champs but they are over-represented imo. It smacks of jobs for the boys. It just shows that the lions coach (or selectors) should not be the head coach of one of the home nations!

It would seem gatland is going for size and will be looking to smash through the ozzies. Whether or not this is the right tactic will soon be discovered.

I'll still watch the Lions but I'll not really put much heart into it

why is it young's over best? Surely its Hartley over best? T. Young's has been playing bloody well in the knock out stages of the HC, he also didn't exactly have a bad six nations or autumn internationals. I get how people can be unhappy with his selection - surely the hard grounds will suit his play.

What does Hartley bring to the party other than yellow cards and controversy? Why would anyone want to pick him ovet Best?

Because Youngs and Hibbard are too similar. Go back and look at Lions threads and you will see I was selecting Hartley all along. Why? Because he's the only one that can throw. I suspect Gatland has been following my blogs for a while .

RDW_Scotland wrote:

munkian wrote:When was the last time Scotland had 5+ players on a Lions tour ?

And I wonder why...

The last time the Lions won a series!

congratulations!

you've won the internet!

mikey_philVIII wrote:Because Youngs and Hibbard are too similar. Go back and look at Lions threads and you will see I was selecting Hartley all along. Why? Because he's the only one that can throw. I suspect Gatland has been following my blogs for a while .

Throw a match... or the ball you mean?

SecretFly wrote:

dummy_half wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ireland... Wooden Spooners, have 3x more representation than Scotland, a team that beat them in the 6N.
sigh....

Ireland were injury ravaged though and obviously all things considered a better side than the table suggests. No surprise at any of the Ireland players inclusion. All merited.

I'd argue Heaslip was lucky from his 6Ns form, although certainly think Best is the most unlucky to miss out entirely (Hartley ????).

...and Steven's 6N form?

No argument from me on that one. Last appearances Stevens made in an England shirt he was awful (and that's the generous assessment), so he is a very lucky boy to make this squad.

Tramptastic wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:£5 says he trys Hogg at 10 at some point over the tour. He played there all through youth level and switched to 15 when he turned pro so maybe he sees him as extra 10 cover? Nobody else in the backs seems to have previous 10 experience (outside of the fly halfs)

Mate Will Greenwood play flyhalf for England up to U18s... and he was no flyhalf. Same goes for Hogg.

Aye, I'm not saying he is, no-one is saying he is but Gatland appears to be verging on insane with some of his selections so does playing a former 10 who plays 15, at 10 seem out of kilter with the man who picked Stevens, Lydiate and Hartley?

Lions coach Warren Gatland, speaking to Sky Sports News:

"Jonny Wilkinson wasn't available - not from the start of the tour. I called him yesterday. I sounded him out and I offered him the chance to go. He said he's committed to Toulon and his body is held together by his fingernails. We left it open. If there is an injury later in the tour he said we can have a conversation if it pops up. I was impressed with the way we played and it's nice to have potentially him involved. We're hoping Stuart Hogg can cover at No 10. He's an absolutely quality player."

I can see nothing so far in what has been said by either Gatland or Warburton that serves as a unifying - follow them out of the trenches - call.

This will be a Welsh-centric, Welsh-led and Welsh-influenced tour. Midweek team to soak up the other three nations methinks.

Plan A from Gatland - I've nearly beaten those pesky Wallabies 7 times - I'll keep my test team and plug the one or two gaps with a couple of non-Welsh players. If we win, in effect, it's a Welsh win. For all four countries obviously.