Scotland vs South Africa pre-match buildup.

First topic message reminder :

I thought I would start a Scotland vs South Africa thread, seeing that the other one is filled to the brim and there is a new opponent to focus on.

Scotland had a good game against South Africa with a not a full strength team in June. although I was not enammered with the tactics of Scotlands' tactics at the breakdown during that match, you have to give them Cudo's for their performance.

They scored two well executed tries and had our breakdown I shambles for most of the match.

South Africa learnt a lot from that match and it should stand them in good stead for the upcoming match.

By virtue of the Scottish performance on the weekend I would suggest that they will go into this match feeling better prepared and a bit of a roll. The momentum of a good match is always a positive to have.

It is obviously to early to speculate too much on team selections, but I would expect Scotland to put out their very best for this one.

Heyneke Meyer has been a tad contradictory in his media releases this past week as he first suggested that he will make some changes against Scotland regardless of the result against wales, but after the match he said he isn't going to make too many changes and doesn't believe in resting his best players during a test season, that should happen during the Super Xv and Currie Cup which we all know is a farce.

Morne Steyn had a back spasm during the Welsh encounter and will be assessed later in the week. I would like to see Lambie get another go at ten though.

SA have improved during the past RC and hopefully they can continue to improve.

For some reason we play poorly at Murrayfield, and I am hoping that we show a better performance there than we did in the past decade.

I'll update the thread as more news and team selections become available.

Scotland team announced.

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Gray snr
5. Hamiton
6. Strokosch
7. Denton
8. Barclay
9. Laidlaw (c)
10. Jackson
11. Lamont
12. Taylor
13. NDL
14.Seymour
15. Maitland

Replacements

16. Lawson
17. Grant
18. Cross
19. Gray jnr
20. Beattie
21. Cuisiter
22. Weir
23. Evans

Matt Scott is definitely out of the SA and Aussie games - http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/13/11/12/mccoll-added-scotland-squad-scott-ruled-out-0

But on the plus side Jack Cuthbert & Lee 'the rock' Jones have been called up to the squad this week...  

I see from that article that Rennie has been called up. While it would be good to see him back in Blue I fear that putting him up against the Springboks would result in another lengthy spell of rehab for him

Indeed, wonder if he might feature against the Wallabies though. He schooled Pocock the last time we played them, wonder if he'd be up to teaching Hooper a thing or two!

Too early for Rennie in my opinion. He should save himself for the 1872 fixtures, where he can make Fusaro look like a little girl.

The second half of the article:

Although Scotland’s casualties are on the mend, a number of players have been called up to the squad for this week’s preparations for the viagogo Autumn Test against South Africa at Murrayfield on Sunday.

They are the Edinburgh Rugby capped quartet, backs Jack Cuthbert, Tom Brown and Lee Jones and flanker Ross Rennie; the Glasgow Warriors pair, capped prop Jon Welsh and Scotland 7s internationalist centre/wing Byron McGuigan; and the 25-year-old uncapped Leeds Carnegie full-back/centre Stevie McColl.

McColl, the former Scotland 7s and age-grade player, who was players’ player of the season at the English Championship club in 2012-13, has been called up to the Scotland squad for the first time.

McColl, a strapping 6ft 2ins and 15st 6lbs, a product of Dunfermline RFC and schooled at Inverkeithing High, has been tracked by the Scotland selectors since he moved to Doncaster Knights in 2008 and during his time with Leeds Carnegie, for whom he is now in his third season.

The Scotland team to play South Africa is due to be announced tomorrow.

Can't say that I really get the point of calling up McColl - realistically will he ever play for Scotland?

GLove39 wrote:Indeed, wonder if he might feature against the Wallabies though. He schooled Pocock the last time we played them, wonder if he'd be up to teaching Hooper a thing or two!

As an aside, during the Edinburgh vs Zebre game. One of the commentators (I think it was Tom English) said that he knew "for a fact" if Rennie had been fit he would have toured with the Lions, as Gatland rates him highly.

cakeordeath wrote:

GLove39 wrote:Indeed, wonder if he might feature against the Wallabies though. He schooled Pocock the last time we played them, wonder if he'd be up to teaching Hooper a thing or two!

As an aside, during the Edinburgh vs Zebre game. One of the commentators (I think it was Tom English) said that he knew "for a fact" if Rennie had been fit he would have toured with the Lions, as Gatland rates him highly.

Hmmm, after Warburton, Tipuric, Jones, Williams, Evans, Williams, Jones ...  

Captain_Sensible wrote:Matt Scott is definitely out of the SA and Aussie games - http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/13/11/12/mccoll-added-scotland-squad-scott-ruled-out-0

that's the very last player we needed to lose.

shlong at center now ? or taylor ?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:The second half of the article:

Although Scotland’s casualties are on the mend, a number of players have been called up to the squad for this week’s preparations for the viagogo Autumn Test against South Africa at Murrayfield on Sunday.

They are the Edinburgh Rugby capped quartet, backs Jack Cuthbert, Tom Brown and Lee Jones and flanker Ross Rennie; the Glasgow Warriors pair, capped prop Jon Welsh and Scotland 7s internationalist centre/wing Byron McGuigan; and the 25-year-old uncapped Leeds Carnegie full-back/centre Stevie McColl.

McColl, the former Scotland 7s and age-grade player, who was players’ player of the season at the English Championship club in 2012-13, has been called up to the Scotland squad for the first time.

McColl, a strapping 6ft 2ins and 15st 6lbs, a product of Dunfermline RFC and schooled at Inverkeithing High, has been tracked by the Scotland selectors since he moved to Doncaster Knights in 2008 and during his time with Leeds Carnegie, for whom he is now in his third season.

The Scotland team to play South Africa is due to be announced tomorrow.

Can't say that I really get the point of calling up McColl - realistically will he ever play for Scotland?

They've called-up Cuthbert and McGuigan as well remember, so it's clearly silly season.

We cannot! CANNOT!!! play Shlong at centre against the Bokke.

For all his heart and gusto he would just be exposed in attack and positioanlly in defense!

Taylor, has to be. Unless of course the Scotland medical team has been to work on Horne:

alive555 wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Matt Scott is definitely out of the SA and Aussie games - http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/13/11/12/mccoll-added-scotland-squad-scott-ruled-out-0

that's the very last player we needed to lose.

shlong at center now ? or taylor ?

Must be Taylor - time to see what he's made of  

what about a spin of the ring ?

taylor -   ?

tigertattie wrote:We cannot! CANNOT!!! play Shlong at centre against the Bokke.

For all his heart and gusto he would just be exposed in attack and positioanlly in defense!

agreed !

whose idea was that  

The injury enforced call ups to the squad are highlighting the lack of depth in our backs options, all the more reason for the SRU to make a serious effort to tempt Matty Russell away from League. He at least has the talent to be an international standard player.

Wow that's a blow.

Taylor and De Luca?

What's the deal with Dunbar, he's training with the squad but injured?

alive555 wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Matt Scott is definitely out of the SA and Aussie games - http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/13/11/12/mccoll-added-scotland-squad-scott-ruled-out-0

that's the very last player we needed to lose.

shlong at center now ? or taylor ?

Taylor/NDL is my guess, with Bennett on the bench perhaps.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

alive555 wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Matt Scott is definitely out of the SA and Aussie games - http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/13/11/12/mccoll-added-scotland-squad-scott-ruled-out-0

that's the very last player we needed to lose.

shlong at center now ? or taylor ?

Taylor/NDL is my guess, with Bennett on the bench perhaps.

Sensible/alive, Reckon you're right, altho personally I'd have gone for Taylor-the Messiah, a blessed partnership if ever I've seen one

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

alive555 wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Matt Scott is definitely out of the SA and Aussie games - http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/13/11/12/mccoll-added-scotland-squad-scott-ruled-out-0

that's the very last player we needed to lose.

shlong at center now ? or taylor ?

Taylor/NDL is my guess, with Bennett on the bench perhaps.

Sensible/alive, Reckon you're right, altho personally I'd have gone for Taylor-the Messiah, a blessed partnership if ever I've seen one

That would be my choice too.

The more I think about it, the more I realise how massive a loss Scott will be.

Has Jon Welsh been called up twice? I thought he was in the original squad?

nickj wrote:Has Jon Welsh been called up twice? I thought he was in the original squad?

I'm pretty sure that he trained with them, altho maybe wasn't officially in the squad, nick?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

nickj wrote:Has Jon Welsh been called up twice? I thought he was in the original squad?

I'm pretty sure that he trained with them, altho maybe wasn't officially in the squad, nick?

He was always in the squad, but was released back to Glasgow for the game just before the international break.

I see. I was slightly miffed not to see him on the bench last weekend and had him pencilled in for this weekend. Here's the original squad: http://www.espn.co.uk/scotland/rugby/story/203383.html

We really are a bit short at the back aren't we... I mean Stevie McColl? What the hell has Alex Grove done to offend Uncle Scott?

I hope Lee Jones gets a bit of confidence back by training with his pals again. The poor guy gets some stick but today's news shows our utter lack of options.

I hope Sean taped Robbie Robinson playing for the Maori, while he out wining and dining his namesake (Matt) and his agent.

It has been decided that if SA beat us on Sunday, then Biltong is going to buy every scots fan on here that puts their hand up a drink!

 

 


 

  

 

   

  

With AR I would have been convinced we would now see Lamont at 12 but I am hoping , hoping , that Johnson sees the light and realises that Lamont plays best at wing and needs to stay there. I think we have to see Taylor - De Luca instead with Bennett on the bench ; not ideal and I would actually prefer Bennett despite inexperience.

I think we will see Hamilton in along with Swinson and Gray Snr on the bench again. No change in back row but MacArthur in.

Again not what I would do at all, but there you are. Let's not forget this is part of our World Cup group, we have to have them thinking really hard about us every time we play them. The summer was a *great* start, I think just taking it to them and staying competitive will be enough for this outing. Our coaching set up and hopefully backline will be more cemented come 2014 then 2015.

Wholesale changes for Aus.

For the record : Scotland 17 - 31 South Africa

 

Surprised by some of the call ups to the squad, Jones, cuthbert and Brown. Not because I don't think Brown is a bad player but because he has hardly played this season so far. Steve MacColl is a very good player and should be playing at a far higher level than Leeds. Has been in the championship dream team the last couple years. Can cover 15, 12 and 13 and has one massive boot on him and is a very good goal kicker.
Agreed about Alex Grove, no idea what he has done wrong, should definitely be in the squad as is a very good 13.

The centres at South Africa will surely be Duncan Taylor at 12 and De Luca at 13. Doubt they would go with 2 inexperienced players at 12 and 13 in the centre but would have Bennett on the bench.

Massive blow losing Scott. Thanks God it's only a minor injury.

Also,  

This is going to be a very tough test for Scotland, particularly without the presence of Matt Scott.

It's hard to see where Scotland can attack this very good Bok side. (We'll leave out their defeats against NZ for the moment.) In the 2nd round of the rugby championship, they played Argentina in Argentina and conceded an early try within the first 5 minutes. Argentina frustrated them well.. attacking them at the breakdown and always carrying with plenty of intent and support. Now they were ultimately beaten with some unfortunate mistakes in particular giving the springboks opportunities which they seized on.

Scotland cannot afford to do the same. They cannot afford to kick loosely or with a poor chase. They need to have a means to combat that fearsome Springbok maul, it is a source of much of the boks strength and whether that is sacking it immediately from the lineout (which is difficult since they always organise the maul very well), stopping the drive at source or not competing so that it's technically obstruction (a tactic which they tried to varying success in the test last year).

Scotland can't allow the Boks to have quick ball and equally must work hard to ensure that the backs will have some of their own. BDP, Louw, Vermeulen and even Etzebeth are all proficient in jackling at the breakdown.

This would be my starting XV
1. Grant (provided he passes concussion protocol, if not Dickinson)
2. MacArthur (Ford... enough already said about him)
3. Cross (no real options, the Rev is at Sunday Mass.. must admit to not seeing much of Welsh/Low)
4. Swinson (need his energy and dynamism against the boks
5. Gray Sr. (haven't seen much of him at Castres but need his energy and workrate to be high)
6. Brown (C)
7. Barclay (need a fetcher, not a big fan of two blindsides in the backrow)
8. Denton (No real options, need a carrier and Beattie hasn't had much game time for Montpellier)
9. Laidlaw (goes without saying, would be nice to see Cusiter back though)
10. Weir (reason explained below)
11. Lamont (puts everything into his performance, will need to be wary against Willie Le Roux or JP Pietersen though)
12. Taylor (Scott leaves a big hole here.. but by no means can Lamont be shoehorned into the centre again)
13. Bennet (Johnson will probably go with NdL  
14. Seymour (Defence was worrying against Japan but what other options are there?)
15. Maitland (Need his ability to inject himself in the line. Best fullback option atm)

If Jackson is as aimless at times as he was against Japan then he'll be held up, turned over and get the ball ripped off him all day by the Bokke backrow. I would personally go with Weir for his tactical kicking and his goal kicking (Laidlaw's range was worrying against Japan although that probably has to do with the state of the turf). Centres will probably end up being Taylor and headless Nick... which doesn't bode too well. Lamont needs to stay on the wing, not really any other options there.

No solitary one off running, always go with support or with options looking to vary the point of attack. Need to play the game in the right places and avoid being turned over as South Africa are more than capable of punishing us.

With all that said, best of luck to the lads on Sunday. And give the bokke a bit of niggle.. if we keep frustrating them they'll get angry and possibly make more mistakes/be given some time to cool off

Jack Cuthbert and Lee Jones FFS - The Bokke will be cacking themselves !!!  

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Jack Cuthbert and Lee Jones FFS - The Bokke will be cackingWee weeing themselves with laughter !!!  

Fixed that for you, C21st

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Jack Cuthbert and Lee Jones FFS - The Bokke will be cacking themselves !!!  

OK I'll see those two and raise you McGuigan

Very odd call ups, well specifically Jones, McGuigan, Brown and Cuthbert.

Oh and

Without meaning to sound too like Rab C; it's more about the performance and seeing who should be considered for 2015 than winning on Sunday.
If it wasn't for injuries we would be considering Scott, Dunbar, Horne,  , Taylor and Hogg. So NDL gets another chance to persuade and Taylor/ Bennet will partner him. We need to see how it goes...defeat isn't the end of the world.
Likewise in 2015 we could have a back row of Bluto, Wilson and Rennie.
So, we put out a team and see how they do, or more importantly learn what they are made of. Can't wait.

jimbopip wrote:Without meaning to sound too like Rab C; it's more about the performance and seeing who should be considered for 2015 than winning on Sunday.
If it wasn't for injuries we would be considering Scott, Dunbar, Horne,  , Taylor and Hogg. So NDL gets another chance to persuade and Taylor/ Bennet will partner him. We need to see how it goes...defeat isn't the end of the world.
Likewise in 2015 we could have a back row of Bluto, Wilson and Rennie.  
So, we put out a team and see how they do, or more importantly learn what they are made of. Can't wait.

I agree with this. Get the performance right and the results will follow, you could say that is starting to happen already. I hope we do win and I think we have a chance. We are good enough to compete in these games now, as we saw in the summer and if you can complete then you can win.

Let these other guys have their chance to put up their hands for a place in the squad and in the team. There are always going to be injuries and we are never realistically going to get our best paper 15 out on the pitch at any one time. It is competitive now though, no more is it harder to get out of the team than into it! They have all been warned that if they don't turn up then their Scotland International journey is going to be over. I think this is great, this is probably the best squad of players we have ever had in the professional era and it should only get better over the next few years. These next two games will hopefully tell us a lot!

Unfortunately I don't see the performance being good anyway ... Against Oz maybe but this is going to be our "pre-season" ...

What'd I miss?

George Carlin wrote:What'd I miss?

We maxed out our previous thread again.

Also, biltong is buying everyoneva drink if SA win. He's nice like that.

 

does anyone know when the teams will be announced?

Scotland team today, usually around lunchtime.

Biltong wrote: 

does anyone know when the teams will be announced?

Never mind the teams: get a pen and paper and start taking our drinks orders. Oh and phone your bank manager you may be dipping into the red just a tad.   

tigertattie wrote:It has been decided that if SA beat us on Sunday, then Biltong is going to buy every scots fan on here that puts their hand up a drink!

David Ferguson dropping the usual (extremely worrying) hints about selection in the Hootsmon (drivel):

Scotland v South Africa: Injury headache for Scots

SCOTLAND’s interim head coach Scott Johnson knew that, no matter how much he swelled his training squad for the Autumn Test series, he would still be left with selection headaches. And so it has proved after just one game.

The 42-17 defeat of Japan left the squad in relatively good heart as they returned to Murrayfield on Monday, reflecting on six good tries. But they were swiftly reminded by the coaches that their defensive performance was not of a standard that will allow them to entertain notions of beating South Africa on Sunday.

As they took to the Murrayfield back pitches yesterday, the news that Matt Scott is out of the remaining Tests with the Springboks and Australia, a reminder that tighthead prop Euan Murray is unavailable for the Sunday game due to his religious beliefs and the sight of more walking wounded in the dressing room will not have improved the mood.

The coach was already looking at promoting Jonny Gray to the bench. The young Glasgow lock was eagerly chasing his brother Richie’s path to the Test arena, even before Al Kellock suffered a concussion and the adrenaline of Tim Swinson’s man-of-the-match performance wore off, leaving him with a sore shoulder.

Swinson did more than enough to keep his place and if Johnson is true to his word about form being a key factor in selection, the Glasgow lock would be the No 1 choice for this weekend.

But it is not that easy. Swinson does not call lineouts and neither does Richie Gray, so it is likely that the line-up looked at in pre-autumn Test planning meetings was the elder Gray and Jim Hamilton, who does call lineouts. That represents a good blend of power, physicality and athleticism, ideal to face the Boks. So it may be that Swinson’s shoulder knock helps Johnson out of a selection quandary because he and Hamilton would be too alike to start together if he was minded to reward form.

There is also a lesson for every aspiring second row, one that the younger Gray took on board some time ago. Although a somewhat reticent character, he urged his coaches to allow him to learn lineout calling as a Scotland age-grade player and is becoming more astute in what is a crucial but under-rated aspect of the game.

And that is not the only area which will have brought some angst to Johnson and assistants Matt Taylor, Jonathan Humphreys, Massimo Cuttitta and Duncan Hodge over the last few days. The management were planning changes in the midfield but they were unlikely to have involved taking Scott out of the starting line-up.

Even with Alex Dunbar injured, potential outside centres are queuing up. From Mark Bennett, Duncan Taylor and now McGuigan, the promising newcomers, to the (relative) elder statesmen Nick de Luca, Max Evans and Sean Lamont. Experienced inside centres are less obvious. De Luca, Bennett and Taylor have had stints there for their clubs, as has stand-off Ruaridh Jackson.

Bennett was in the frame for a squad call-up but, with Scott suddenly out of the equation, and up against a powerful, full-strength side ranked No 2 in the world, bold decisions on testing raw kids appear more risky. Evans’ fitness, after a recent injury, remains unclear and, although Johnson wants to see him in action, the fact that two capped wingers were yesterday called into the squad, in the shape of Jones and Brown, hints at Lamont shifting back to the No 13 jersey with De Luca in pole position to partner him from the start. Bennett, Taylor and Evans all present versatile back-line cover so at least two are expected to be in the 23.

The back row poses another intriguing question with John Barclay pushing hard for the openside flanker berth, while Glasgow’s out-and-out No 7 Chris Fusaro fits into Johnson’s category of “players we need to find out about”. Kelly Brown could shift to six or No 8, as could David Denton, but, against South Africa, perhaps Alasdair Strokosch would be best in the No.6 jersey. But that unit would lack flair and if this series is, as Johnson says, about finding out what other players can bring to the party, Johnnie Beattie, Rob Harley and newcomers Blair Cowan and Kieran Low could feature at some stage in the next fortnight.

Loosehead prop Ryan Grant warmed up with the squad yesterday after he passed early concussion return-to-play tests, but with Murray missing the front row strength in depth will be tested. Geoff Cross and Jon Welsh are both looking for a step-up with Dickinson ready to step in if Grant does not make it, while at scrum-half Henry Pyrgos and Chris Cusiter are increasing pressure on the selectors with Greig Laidlaw nursing a calf injury.

Only a small number of changes were expected for an opposition as strong and experienced as Sunday’s but injury and form have already forced Johnson to rethink the strategy for his first and last Autumn Test series as head coach.

A centre partnership of de Useless at IC and Schlong at 13 fills me with utter dread - it's a complete disaster waiting to happen. Rab C spoke of rewarding form and challenging his youngsters, so what's wrong with now?!   It would seem that Scott's injury has totally altered his thinking - frustrating. And just say no to the Goblin

Eslewhere it sounds as tho Gray jnr might be involved, not too shabby for a 19-yr old

NDL and SLamont in the centres? Boak.

I hope Ferguson is wrong.