Froch Wants The Ward Fight In Nottingham

First topic message reminder :

Carl Froch wants to the Andre Ward fight in Nottingham, does home field advantage make a difference?

http://tinyurl.com/n8k793g

I know he is, Hammer. I was saying whoever wins becomes Super Champ, and the "regular" title will become vacant, even when the fight is ostensibly for both titles.

If there's one thing which is true of sports, it's that small differences or fluctuations on the night can often lead to disproportionate victory margins, even when the gap between the two competitors isn't that great. So there's every chance Froch is a lot closer to Ward then we think, and the ATL fight was just a case of Ward being on and Froch being a little off the boil for whatever reason.

With that said, other than the Bute fight (and I think serious questions can be asked about Bute), I don't think there's been anything which has stood out for me as something Froch underperformed in which he could have done better and won because of. Maybe could have been a little better on the inside, but Ward is both faster and stronger than him, so I don't know how true that would be to say

This is an issue of fair play and sportsmanship for me, I'm less interested in who wins just may the best man win.


I'd like to see the Son of God acknowledge that it's fairer if he is the one to come to Froch's backyard this time.

He gets very well paid for it too.

And fair point raf.

Hammer, how come Ward gets a free pass whenever he's asked to step out of his comfort zone?

Your correct on the belt thing although not on Froch getting stripped. The best outcome is they both get stripped, unless of course Hearn bids the most for the fight (knowing he'll make a bomb from it over here) and Ward once again refuses to move.

Like it's been mentioned by everyone else, Ward makes more money fighting Froch over here unless he decides to step it up against GGG or move a division.

Can't understand why he wouldn't want to face the no.2, beat him in his own turf and earn a shedload????????????????????

Derbymanc wrote:Hammer, how come Ward gets a free pass whenever he's asked to step out of his comfort zone?

Your correct on the belt thing although not on Froch getting stripped. The best outcome is they both get stripped, unless of course Hearn bids the most for the fight (knowing he'll make a bomb from it over here) and Ward once again refuses to move.

Like it's been mentioned by everyone else, Ward makes more money fighting Froch over here unless he decides to step it up against GGG or move a division.

Can't understand why he wouldn't want to face the no.2, beat him in his own turf and earn a shedload????????????????????

Because if recent events are anything to go by he'll get shafted by the judges or ref, wont get the bulk of the money and when he does eventually win he won't get credit for beating a faded version of the guy he beat while in 2nd gear last time.

Who doesn't give him the credit for beating Froch last time?
Who's been shafted out of money with the Hearns or for fighting over here?

The judges thing is a possibility but then that is the case in a lot of places. I don't really see anything that bad if he comes over here and Froch did fight him on his home turf last time.

Ward wins wherever they fight, but won't come to England due to his homesickness. Froch will retire with what he believes is a clear conscience. What price Groves calling out Ward any time soon??

Froch won one or two rounds in their fight and nearly got a draw and that's in America.

I can totally understand Wards reluctance to have a rematch in the new home of robberies. Absolutely no way does Ward get a fair crack over here from the judges and points it would likely go to. Ah but he'd make a few new fans though.

I didn't say he didnt get credit last time, but he won't this time. If he fights here, Froch is going to command the most amount of money, because he's generating the money - which is fair enough but Ward won't put up with that. The problem with judges and refs is that its quite common over here, this might as well be 1990s germany to him. Foster, IJL, especially and its been pretty high profile too so the perception will be that he's probably going to get shafted unless he knocks Froch out..unlikely to happen. Too many factors, If they offer him 5050, he might consider it but that is also unlikely to happen. Froch wants a payday and a massive one with him standing tall as the partisan crowd cheers him on his victory, hence chasing the rather limited Chavez rather than Golovkin, or Ward until the WBA stuck their oar in. I think whoever pointed out that neither wants it is probably spot on.

It's a ll about Ward not having to travel in the Super Six for me.

Everyone else had to fight overseas.

I agree with the idea of a 50/50 split though, even though Froch's the Aside.

He would get the credit of the fans Shah, they're the same fans that give him the credit for the first fight.

Raj - It's not just about getting more fans but about building a fanbase and thereby maximising your earning potential giving you more leverage in contract negotiations next time.

Like i've said, Froch travelled to his gaff last time, why should anything less be levelled at Ward this time?

Froch Travelled to america yes but not to his home town, they fought on the other side of the states, shall we find a similarly distant place from nottingham just so they can have parity? Something like 2500 miles. There was no real home advantage for Ward, and how many people do you think are going to come over to watch Ward fight someone who he has already beaten?

Unlikely that Ward makes these new fans over here who will then travel to Oakland to watch him fight.

Maybe not, but it's more people that will pay for his fights over here. More people talking about how good he is and therefore giving him a greater chance at better paydays.

Fair do's Shah, he does seem to have this reputation that he won't travel though. Along with being rather boring. (or maybe that's just me)

What do you suggest then Derby, he constantly comes back over the pond to fight the likes of Degale, Groves and Smith for those better paydays?

If they're going to make him more money then yes, I don't see the problem with that.

You also realise that is never going to happen?

He's the son of god. He's omnipresent. It doesn't matter where he fights. He could spread the word to the darkest reaches of the planet, where Angels fear to tread and the streets have never seen the light of The Lord.

Froch Ward 2: Swindon leisure centre.

That's his choice Hammer, you asked if I think he should do it for money and yup I think he should.

He's in danger of becoming a forgotten man and that would be a real shame for someone with his talent.

Milky,
he'd need Froch to fill it, don't think he could on his own

Froch will fill it with the stench of bullsh*t

Milky on the sauce again .

ShahenshahG wrote:Froch Travelled to america yes but not to his home town, they fought on the other side of the states, shall we find a similarly distant place from nottingham just so they can have parity? Something like 2500 miles. There was no real home advantage for Ward, and how many people do you think are going to come over to watch Ward fight someone who he has already beaten?

Love how Ward has managed to con people into regurgitating this BS!
Regardless of where they fought in America, he's an American, it's a home fight.
Just because GB is smaller than USA it doesn't mean you can alter geography, if Froch fought anywhere within the UK most people (including Froch I'm sure) would consider it a home fight. If it took place 2500 miles from Nottingham it wouldn't be in the UK so no it wouldn't be a home fight - it's not too difficult a concept to grasp!

KC wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Froch Travelled to america yes but not to his home town, they fought on the other side of the states, shall we find a similarly distant place from nottingham just so they can have parity? Something like 2500 miles. There was no real home advantage for Ward, and how many people do you think are going to come over to watch Ward fight someone who he has already beaten?

Love how Ward has managed to con people into regurgitating this BS!
Regardless of where they fought in America, he's an American, it's a home fight.
Just because GB is smaller than USA it doesn't mean you can alter geography, if Froch fought anywhere within the UK most people (including Froch I'm sure) would consider it a home fight. If it took place 2500 miles from Nottingham it wouldn't be in the UK so no it wouldn't be a home fight - it's not too difficult a concept to grasp!

If it's not too difficult a concept to grasp then why are you having so much trouble? The only reason that people can think of having this fight is because they fought in America last time. Not because it was a close fight. Ward beat him so easily it was a joke. I was merely highlighting how ridiculous the notion is not actually suggesting that they find a similarly distant place for the fight.

Eddie would have no problem feeding Froch to Ward in a UK stadium fight. Might as well squeeze the lemon for every last drop before he retires.

ShahenshahG wrote:Milky on the sauce again .

Hadn't touched a drop shah. I'm capable of equally poor humour sober and sodden.

Did any of Hearns, Leonard, Tyson, Holmes, Whittaker, Taylor, Louis, Spinks etc etc

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Boxing has become much more multinational nowadays Truss. Probably why the a lot of the mentally challenged lot over there have migrated to UFC where there's a big proportion of American fighters. Give it 20 years with foreigners holding the belts and they'll lose interest in that as well as there's no one to chant "USA USA USA" for (side note, but you've only got one song).

In those days there was a plethora of yanks fighting so they didn't need to travel much. Nowadays they can't fill their living rooms and yet there's Froch selling out Wembley over here.. yet he won't travel. 100% duck in my books

Coxy001 wrote:

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Boxing has become much more multinational nowadays Truss. Probably why the a lot of the mentally challenged lot over there have migrated to UFC where there's a big proportion of American fighters. Give it 20 years with foreigners holding the belts and they'll lose interest in that as well as there's no one to chant "USA USA USA" for (side note, but you've only got one song).

In those days there was a plethora of yanks fighting so they didn't need to travel much. Nowadays they can't fill their living rooms and yet there's Froch selling out Wembley over here.. yet he won't travel. 100% duck in my books

Bollox..............

If they can fight at home so can anyone else..

Double standards crap..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Boxing has become much more multinational nowadays Truss. Probably why the a lot of the mentally challenged lot over there have migrated to UFC where there's a big proportion of American fighters. Give it 20 years with foreigners holding the belts and they'll lose interest in that as well as there's no one to chant "USA USA USA" for (side note, but you've only got one song).

In those days there was a plethora of yanks fighting so they didn't need to travel much. Nowadays they can't fill their living rooms and yet there's Froch selling out Wembley over here.. yet he won't travel. 100% duck in my books

Bollox..............

If they can fight at home so can anyone else..

Double standards crap..

You get a load more Brits travelling abroad to fight than Americans in terms of % of total fighters.

Tyson had a couple of trips to Japan, but  the point's valid enough. There's probably an argument that America isn't the Mecca it once was for big fights. Basically those guys never had to leave the states for money... And they could draw. Ward might have to.

He's no obligation to... Depends if he wants the cash.

Scottrf wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Excuses excuses....largely baloney.

It was discussed on here a while back, he could've bought out his contract pretty easily (i.e. broken it and paid the damages) but never showed any interest in fighting outside his backyard or against any other challenges/ers once he'd 'cleaned up'.

I'm sure plenty of compelling evidence was provided by the legal professionals with extensive experience in sport contracts.

A contract is a contract. 'Sport' is irrelevant.  Break it and you get sued for the breach, lose and pay damanges.

You're just desperate to excuse Ward's clear lack of ambition since 'cleaning up'.

The simple fact is you don't have a clue about the terms of his contract, his ability to pay the damages, any offers he's had outside of the contract or his personal situation. Life isn't as simple as you evidently are. It's easy to criticise when you have no skin in the game.

As for ambition, he's Olympic and World Champion. You don't get there without ambition. What have you achieved to question his ambition?

I'm not desperate for anything. I'm not a particular fan. I'm just more realistic and show more respect for elite boxers.

You don't understand the definition of the word 'SINCE' and yet I'm the one who's simple??!!?

C'mon dopey, it's only 5 letters and 1 syllable, shouldn't be that hard to get your pea brain around.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Did any of Hearns, Leonard, Tyson, Holmes, Whittaker, Taylor, Louis, Spinks etc etc

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Were any of their number 1 challengers based outside of North America or have a clear unequivocal case to bring more money to the table outside of America?

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Boxing has become much more multinational nowadays Truss. Probably why the a lot of the mentally challenged lot over there have migrated to UFC where there's a big proportion of American fighters. Give it 20 years with foreigners holding the belts and they'll lose interest in that as well as there's no one to chant "USA USA USA" for (side note, but you've only got one song).

In those days there was a plethora of yanks fighting so they didn't need to travel much. Nowadays they can't fill their living rooms and yet there's Froch selling out Wembley over here.. yet he won't travel. 100% duck in my books

Bollox..............

If they can fight at home so can anyone else..

Double standards crap..

You get a load more Brits travelling abroad to fight than Americans in terms of % of total fighters.

Yep like Andries, Dave Boy Green, Bruno x 2, Williams, Honeyghan, Farr, Cockell ...........

Like I said If greats of the past prefer home advantage..........Then what's good for the goose is good for the gander....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Did any of Hearns, Leonard, Tyson, Holmes, Whittaker, Taylor, Louis, Spinks etc etc

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Tyson fought in Japan...didn't go well.

TopHat24/7 wrote:You don't understand the definition of the word 'SINCE' and yet I'm the one who's simple??!!?

C'mon dopey, it's only 5 letters and 1 syllable, shouldn't be that hard to get your pea brain around.

Do you really think his personality has changed since?

His situation has.

Scottrf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Did any of Hearns, Leonard, Tyson, Holmes, Whittaker, Taylor, Louis, Spinks etc etc

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Tyson fought in Japan...didn't go well.

But he was loved by the Japanese people.........Which is why he fought there............Douglas and Tubbs were the "away" fighters...

I know you were being SAKE

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Boxing has become much more multinational nowadays Truss. Probably why the a lot of the mentally challenged lot over there have migrated to UFC where there's a big proportion of American fighters. Give it 20 years with foreigners holding the belts and they'll lose interest in that as well as there's no one to chant "USA USA USA" for (side note, but you've only got one song).

In those days there was a plethora of yanks fighting so they didn't need to travel much. Nowadays they can't fill their living rooms and yet there's Froch selling out Wembley over here.. yet he won't travel. 100% duck in my books

Bollox..............

If they can fight at home so can anyone else..

Double standards crap..

You get a load more Brits travelling abroad to fight than Americans in terms of % of total fighters.

Yep like Andries, Dave Boy Green, Bruno x 2, Williams, Honeyghan, Farr, Cockell ...........

Like I said If greats of the past prefer home advantage..........Then what's good for the goose is good for the gander....

Boxing and sport has moved on Truss;

Golf: World championships across different continents/Euro Tour being played in Asia and Australia
American Football: Holding events here, want to create a London based franchise
Boxing: Booming in Europe, probably more so than America
Etc.

It's probably because he doesn't have a passport. 65% of Americans don't have one. Says it all really.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:But he was loved by the Japanese people.........Which is why he fought there............Douglas and Tubbs were the "away" fighters...

I know you were being SAKE

Fair point, lazy reading. And good pun.

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

Have any competitive fights outside North America or without home advantage....??

Yet it's a big problem for Ward........Go figure !!....

Boxing has become much more multinational nowadays Truss. Probably why the a lot of the mentally challenged lot over there have migrated to UFC where there's a big proportion of American fighters. Give it 20 years with foreigners holding the belts and they'll lose interest in that as well as there's no one to chant "USA USA USA" for (side note, but you've only got one song).

In those days there was a plethora of yanks fighting so they didn't need to travel much. Nowadays they can't fill their living rooms and yet there's Froch selling out Wembley over here.. yet he won't travel. 100% duck in my books

Bollox..............

If they can fight at home so can anyone else..

Double standards crap..

You get a load more Brits travelling abroad to fight than Americans in terms of % of total fighters.

Yep like Andries, Dave Boy Green, Bruno x 2, Williams, Honeyghan, Farr, Cockell ...........

Like I said If greats of the past prefer home advantage..........Then what's good for the goose is good for the gander....

Boxing and sport has moved on Truss;

Golf: World championships across different continents/Euro Tour being played in Asia and Australia
American Football: Holding events here, want to create a London based franchise
Boxing: Booming in Europe, probably more so than America
Etc.

It's probably because he doesn't have a passport. 65% of Americans don't have one. Says it all really.

That's irrelevant....

Scottrf wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:You don't understand the definition of the word 'SINCE' and yet I'm the one who's simple??!!?

C'mon dopey, it's only 5 letters and 1 syllable, shouldn't be that hard to get your pea brain around.

Do you really think his personality has changed since?

His situation has.

Yes, his situation being unified champ or not. Once he got to the top he's been happy to rest on his laurels. Not much doubt of the ambition that took him there (albeit he had a lot of things his own way), but that's kind of the point - think of what he could've done:

- Taken out a couple of hot up'n'coming whipper snappers at 168, plus maybe one of the other big names (e.g. Kess, Froch again or Bute [if he'd got him pre Forch])
- Rematched, and most likely beaten, Dawson at his proper 175 weight
- Cleaned up 175 (prior to Kov making an impact on the division)
- Mayyyyyybe even won a strap at CW (he's that talented and the division is that week)

He'd have to be sailing into Top 20 ATG status with that CV.

Instead he's going to just be a forgotten man...

Ward coming to Nottingham!?!

He would have to leave the comforts of jokeland first. He cant exactly used his contractual dispute excuse anymore can he.

Joke fighter.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Ward coming to Nottingham!?!

He would have to leave the comforts of jokeland first. He cant exactly used his contractual dispute excuse anymore can he.

Joke fighter.

Yep..

Great talent....just a $h|tbag.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yes, his situation being unified champ or not.  Once he got to the top he's been happy to rest on his laurels.  Not much doubt of the ambition that took him there (albeit he had a lot of things his own way), but that's kind of the point - think of what he could've done:

- Taken out a couple of hot up'n'coming whipper snappers at 168, plus maybe one of the other big names (e.g. Kess, Froch again or Bute [if he'd got him pre Forch])
- Rematched, and most likely beaten, Dawson at his proper 175 weight
- Cleaned up 175 (prior to Kov making an impact on the division)
- Mayyyyyybe even won a strap at CW (he's that talented and the division is that week)

He'd have to be sailing into Top 20 ATG status with that CV.

Instead he's going to just be a forgotten man...

Taken 3 fights at 168. Stepped up a division to beat the main man. Cleaned up this division. Stepped up another 25 pounds and won a title.

In 2 and a half years. With an injury and contract disputes.

You're certainly realistic. And know the sport well, clearly.

According to Eddie Hearn on SSN they have spoken to Gennady Golovkin's team over a fight in the future.

Were talking to Chavez & Hopkins til the Ward fight was put on.

Trying to get him to England since last fight sold 2,000 Tickets

Get GGG over here............If Froch can take the center of the ring............We'll see If this kid can fight..

Can't we all just agree that Ward is becoming a wasted fighter and leave it at that. He's not doing any of us any harm by sitting at home counting his plaudits on one hand and his fans on the other.

I think it’s six of one, half a dozen of the other with regards to how badly Ward’s career has stalled. He did pick up an injury against Froch which ruled him out for a little while in 2012, so it was always likely we’d only see him fight once that year. When he did, he still looked a million dollars against Dawson. Yep, I’d have preferred it to have been at 175 rather than Super-Middle as well, but still a good win.

Says he’s looking forward to fighting three times in 2013, starting with Pavlik in January….But knackers his shoulder up in another injury setback which I believe required surgery – again, that’s just bad luck on his part. Gets back in the gym in May 2013, the same month that Froch beats Kessler at the O2 and starts making noise about getting Ward over here for a rematch. Ward replies saying that, as the top man in the division and having already beaten Froch, he doesn’t HAVE to do anything, and from memory most agreed with him at that time.

Unfortunately, it was also around that time that we started learning that he was at loggerheads with Goossen. That’s a situation that’s only just been resolved (in less than pleasant circumstances) in the past two or three months and obviously it was always going to make things difficult for him – but even when publicly fighting with Goossen and trying to free himself from his contract, he still was able to turn out for a November 2013 fight against Rodriguez. While I think everyone appreciates that he’s had a lot of stuff outside the ropes to contend with, if he could fight then it’s only natural that people are going to question why he couldn’t fight again in the next sixteen months up until this point, even if it had only been once.

Meanwhile, Froch draws in 80,000 for a Wembley fight which adds fuel to the fire that he’s the money man in the division even if he’s not the best fighter there. Inactive and therefore with less means of earning, four kids with more likely to follow, possibly having parted with a bit of cash in these legal attempts, people (rightly or wrongly) questioning his desire and hunger – maybe Ward should be swallowing a bit of pride and thinking about giving up home advantage to earn a bit more in a fight that he probably wins either side of the Atlantic in any case? Going back to May 2013 when it was first mooted, I agreed with Ward that there really wasn’t a massive incentive for him to rematch Froch on these shores and agreed with his stance. But now? Well, I still agree he’s not obligated to at all, and if the fight doesn’t come about I won’t be too bothered, but I think there are definitely a few more sensible reasons for him to consider it right now.

It’s obviously not the fight he wants – but after the frustrations of the last three years, he just needs to fight any decent name full stop, surely? I’d rather see him do that instead of just not fighting at all. He shouldn’t get too much of a hard time over being so inactive given all the stuff he’s had to contend with, but at the same time his attitude to remedying that situation has been a little bit diva-like.

Balanced summary from Chris. Wont add more to the discussion now.

Froch didn't draw in 80,000.................

Controversial victory and Groves had something to do with it..........

Froch-Groves is a one off never to be seen again........

Joshua v Fury for the title will garner half as much interest.....

Groves got £2 million for the Froch return and that was the biggest fight in Brit history !!!...........

Froch - Ward 2 will be a quarter of the size !!

Ward was offered $2.4 million to fight Edwin Rodrigues by HBO........

So I don't see where the motivation is..........Money wise..