Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread IX

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Time Honoured Banter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
https://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues
https://www.606v2.com/t56913p950-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vi-banter-boogaloo
https://www.606v2.com/t57946-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vii
https://www.606v2.com/t58659-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-viii

A. Edinburgh (2015-2016)
 
Players In
William Helu from Wasps
Nasi Manu from Highlanders
Nathan Fowles from Sale Sharks
Michael Allen from Ulster
Jack Cosgrove from Worcester Warriors

Players Out
Tom Heathcote to Worcester Warriors
Grayson Hart to Glasgow Warriors
Ollie Atkins to Exeter Chiefs
Tim Visser to Harlequins
 
B. Glasgow (2015-2016)

Players In
Simone Favaro from Benetton Treviso
Grayson Hart from Edinburgh
Kieran Low from London Irish
Mike Blair from Newcastle Falcons
Sam Johnson from Queensland Reds
Greg Peterson from Leicester Tigers
Taqele Naiyaravoro from NSW Waratahs
Javan Sebastian from Carmarthen Quins

Players Out
Nikola Matawalu to Bath Rugby
Sean Maitland to London Irish
D.T.H. van der Merwe to Scarlets
Dougie Hall retired
Jon Welsh to Newcastle Falcons
Alastair Kellock retired
Murray McConnell to Nottingham
James Downey to Wasps
Tommy Spinks to Jersey
Euan Murray to Pau
Connor Braid released

[George Carlin]

Problem is that Dell and Sutherland are both LH and I fully agree Sutherland did very well last season (I’d have probably had him in the WC training squad ahead of Dell), but it still leaves us very weak at TH.  I think Dell can technically play both sides, but I’ve yet to see anyone play the opposite side well.

You’re right about Romania’s scrum and we still managed to get a fairly convincing win against them, but it is a concern, especially for the first few weeks of the season.  

Big season for Solly.  We need to see some improvement in the league, as this is very much his team now, and I think he has (on paper) a team capable of doing well

The other scrum issue against Romania is that Cochrane is pretty lightweight at hooker. Teams with small hookers seem to struggle these days. France murdered the England set piece with wee Tom Youngs at 2.

I would like to see Berghan and Sutherland at prop, with Turner tested at hooker. Andress, Cochrane and Dell to come off the bench. It's just unlucky that we're losing both Ford and McInally, but it's really Glasgow's fault for not having any decent hookers.

Really? NOBODY has followed up with a joke about there being no shortage of hookers in Glasgow? Standard have slipped upwards on this thread and I'm not sure that I'm happy about that.

[funnyExiledScot]

I said "decent" hookers GC. I'm talking proper high end...,

[madmaccas]

Scott Wight has been 'loaned' (presumably by the 7's squad?) to the Warriors from this weekend's Canadian game through into the start of the season. Apparently it's to cover the world's most injured player (not to mention repeatedly re-anounced signing) Gregor Hunter who is once again out.

There's putting faith in an established player and then there's the Hunter debacle. He's been a pro since 2011, yet has only played 16 games. They need to let the guy go already.

[George Carlin]

L'Equipe de Soapdodger to take on Canada at the weekend:

FORWARDS (16)
 
Jason Hill
Josh Strauss
Will Bordill
Simone Favaro
Chris Fusaro
Scott Cummings
James Eddie
Kieran Low
Tim Swinson
Mike Cusack
Zander Fagerson
D’arcy Rae
Kevin Bryce
Pat MacArthur
George Hunter
Jerry Yanuyanutawa
 
BACKS (12)
 
Peter Murchie
Junior Bulumakau
Lee Jones
Rory Hughes
Mark Robertson
Glenn Bryce
Robbie Fergusson
Fraser Lyle
Rory Clegg
Scott Wight
Mike Blair
Grayson Hart

[George Carlin]

Rumour is Glasgow are signing Gloucester prop Sila Puafisi

http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Sila-Puafisi-set-Gloucester-exit-Glasgow-Warriors/story-27667221-detail/story.html

Woah. Here's the most attention grabbing part of that article:

Puafisi started just 15 matches since arriving [at Gloucester] and picking up four yellow cards and one red.

Our esteemed colleague had this to say about Puafisi on the 'transfer rumours' thread:

It didn't work out as sadly I just don't think he's good enough. There is no doubting his strength and under the old scrum laws I think he could have developed into a top TH, however, his technique is shocking. His base position is always too high and I think he mistakenly believes you should bind on the arm! At least 2 of his cards were for petulance and the rest for scrum infringements. You can't deny his commitment or work in the loose, which has drastically improved in the 18 months. But if you want a prop who can scrummage it's not him.

He sounds like an 'anti-matter Mike Cusack'.

[George Carlin]

So looks like Edinburgh and Glasgow's transfers are all but done, so thought I'd look at the makeup of the final squad (on the train heading south for work and am bored). Someone feel free to do Glasgow.

LH
Dickinson
Sutherland
Dell
Shiells
Cosgrove

Hooker
Ford
Mcinally
Cochrane
Turner

Tighthead
Nel
Andress
Berghan

Lock
Bresler
Gilchrist
Toolis
McKenzie
Toolis

6/8
Denton
Du Preez
Manu
Coman
Bradbury
Ritchie

7
Grant
Watson

9
Hidalgo-Clyne
Fowles
Kennedy
McAndrew

Stand off
Tonks
Te Rure
Kinghorn
(Burleigh)

Centre
Scott, Burleigh, Strauss, Dean, Allan, Beard

Wing
Helu, Fife, Hoyland, Brown, Katoa

Fullback
Cuthbert
McLennan

So in my mind this gives a 23 of:

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Nel
4 Bresler
5 Gilchrist
6 Du Preez
7 Watson
8 Denton

9 Hidalgo-Clyne
10 Tonks
11 Helu
12 Scott
13 Dean
14 Fife
15 Cuthbert

Subs - Sutherland, McInally, Andress, Toolis, Manu, Fowles, Burleigh, Brown

Some key points:

- I think that is one of the strongest squads we've had in many years. No more excuses left for Solomons. If we don't make the top 6 it will be a massive disappointment. It's now or never really

- We have enough strength in depth in most positions that Solomons' (non) rotation policy will surely be a thing of the past

- We have particular strength in depth in the pack, and have a bit of a logjam of young talented looseheads. Our backup tighthead options aren't ideal, but not many teams have great depth there.

- Our backs are still quite workmanlike, and lacking a bit of spark. We've not really answered the 13 problem, and are still in a position where our best midfield could involve Matt Scott (12) at 13. Hopefully Chris Dean's knees can hold together and have a breakthrough season. Expecting big things from Helu.

- Still concerns at 10 with Tonks yet to fully convince, and the backup options being very raw (and crap in Te Rure's case   ). Burleigh can do a job there but it isn't a long term solution.

So all in all I'm quietly confident. Our pack was one of the best in the league last year, and if anything it is even stronger this year. I think our season will very much depend on the backs though - if we can learn how to use them (especially the wingers) then we stand a much better chance of making top 6. Luckily Solomons has been making positive noises regarding this subject recently, acknowledging that we need more from the back.

Prediction - 6th place, knock out stages of Europe

Nice to have - stand a chance of a top 4 place up until the end of the season

I'll have a wild stab at Glasgow. Which is ironically also something which is readily available in Glasgow.

LH
Allan, Grant, Reid, Strain, Yanuyanutawa 

Hooker
Brown, Bryce, MacArthur, Scott

TH
Cusack, Fagerson, Findlay, Hunter, Rae, Sebastian, Puafisi  

Lock
Gray, Low, Nakarawa, Peterson, Swinson

Loose forward
Blake, Bordill, Eddie, Favaro, Fusaro, Hill, Holmes

No.8
Strauss, Ashe, Wilson

Scrum half
Blair, Hart, Pyrgos

Stand off
Clegg, Hunter, Russell, Weir

Centre
Bennett, Dunbar, Horne, Lyle, Johnson, Vernon

Wing
Bulumakau, Gosmark, Hughes, Jones, Lamont, Naiyaravoro, Robertson, Seymour

Full back
Bryce, Hogg, Murchie

So out of that lot, I would say that our best is:

01 Reid
02 Brown
03 Cusack
04 Nakarawa
05 Gray
06 Harley
07 Fusaro (for the moment)
08 Strauss

09 Pyrgos
10 Russell
11 Naiyaravoro
12 Dunbar
13 Bennett
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

16 Grant
17 MacArthur
18 Fagerson
19 Swinson
20 Favaro/Blake
21 Hart
22 Weir
23 Horne/Vernon

Really, really not happy about our props situation.

[Weegie Wizard]

I'll have a wild stab at Glasgow. Which is ironically also something which is readily available in Glasgow.

LH
Allan, Grant, Reid, Strain, Yanuyanutawa 

Hooker
Brown, Bryce, MacArthur, Scott

TH
Cusack, Fagerson, Findlay, Hunter, Rae, Sebastian, Puafisi  

Lock
Gray, Low, Nakarawa, Peterson, Swinson

Loose forward
Blake, Bordill, Eddie, Favaro, Fusaro, Hill, Holmes

No.8
Strauss, Ashe, Wilson

Scrum half
Blair, Hart, Pyrgos

Stand off
Clegg, Hunter, Russell, Weir

Centre
Bennett, Dunbar, Horne, Lyle, Johnson, Vernon

Wing
Bulumakau, Gosmark, Hughes, Jones, Lamont, Naiyaravoro, Robertson, Seymour

Full back
Bryce, Hogg, Murchie

So out of that lot, I would say that our best is:

01 Reid
02 Bryce
03 Cusack
04 Nakarawa
05 Gray
06 Harley
07 Fusaro (for the moment)
08 Strauss

09 Pyrgos
10 Russell
11 Naiyaravoro
12 Dunbar
13 Bennett
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

16 Grant
17 MacArthur
18 Fagerson
19 Swinson
20 Favaro/Blake
21 Hart
22 Weir
23 Horne/Vernon

Really, really not happy about our props situation.

That is still a fairly good squad despite those we lost in the summer. Quite a few in bold are short term guys, most of whom will not be here beyond the RWC. I also would have Brown as starting hooker rather than Bryce.

Our prop situation will depend largely on Fagerson's progress. We are going to be forced to give him more gametime that we would have wanted but if he reacts well then I will be delighted.

Our new fijians have big boots to fill. Which means big Tacky needs to

1. turn up
2. be interested and
3. not be involved in any international teams

My prediction for the league is top 4 but no final. We must, must, must finish at least 2nd in our Heineken Cup group. I would happily sacrifice top 4 for getting into the knockouts in Europe.

[madmaccas]

Since Naiyaravoro has been dropped from the Aussie squad isn't it about time he made his way North?

[RDW]

Since Naiyaravoro has been dropped from the Aussie squad isn't it about time he made his way North?

He's in an extended 10 man training squad who will also 've considered for a game against USA coming up.

[justified sinner]

He's also in the Barbarians squad for their game against Samoa in London on Saturday. On ITV 4 btw.

[RDW]

Sounds like he's doing everything he can to avoid coming to Glasgow!

It's not that bad, really...

[justified sinner]

To be fair London is getting closer and it's not as if he can drop by to say hi, Glasgow are all off on their summer hol's to Canada this weekend, so no one in at Scotstoun!

[RDW]

Is it really the best idea for Glasgow to head to Canada and back the week before the season starts?

[InjuredYetAgain]

Two things:-

I'll have a wild stab at Glasgow. Which is ironically also something which is readily available in Glasgow.

TH
Cusack, Fagerson, Findlay, Hunter, Rae, Sebastian, Puafisi  

.

Glasgow have a prop called Sebastian in their midst?!

And why the frig are they going to Canada to play a game?

[Manky-Flanker]

Glasgow have strong links to Canadian rugby, DTH, Kevin Tchchuck, Chauncey o'Tool (great name), Taylor Paris, Connor Braid. I also think GW had an agreement with the Canadian union whereby they paid DTH's salary particularly over periods when he was injured (though can't remember where I heard that). So playing them keeps that relationship alive and lets face it, Glasgow have done well out of their Canada connection.

[BigGee]

Glasgow have strong links to Canadian rugby, DTH, Kevin Tchchuck, Chauncey o'Tool (great name), Taylor Paris, Connor Braid. I also think GW had an agreement with the Canadian union whereby they paid DTH's salary particularly over periods when he was injured (though can't remember where I heard that). So playing them keeps that relationship alive and lets face it, Glasgow have done well out of their Canada connection.

I think all international rugby players are insured when they are playing with their countries, so the clubs will get compensated if they get injured that way. It happens quite a bit at the end of the day and a lot of the smaller unions would quickly get bankrupt if they had to fund big salaries out of quite meagre incomes.

[nickj]

http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/15/08/26/warriors-clinch-puafisi-signing

[nickj]

Interestingly it seems he's only had two yellows and played a fair few minutes last season. Never a full 80 mind. http://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/rugby/squad/squads_gloucester_first_xv.php?player=114668&includeref=dynamic

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

I'll be missing this weekends world cup warmups and pre season excitement, as I'm flying out to Germany with 3 friends and will spend 5 days attempting to cycle 450 miles from Colditz castle, ex-POW camp, to Zurich for charity! As a total non-cyclist and seeing as I'm using a £50 bike off ebay this may be the last this forum hears from me! If anyone wanted to be super kind and push a few pennies our way our sponsorship page is http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/team/Colditz and more details of why we're doing what feels like an increasingly stupid idea are on our website http://escapecolditz.co.uk/

Shameless plug over

[IanBru]

That's an awesome idea, Llama, and certainly more sensible than launching a glider from the roof!

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Bru you are a gentleman sir, thanks very much for the donation!

[RDW]

Edinburgh have named a 33 man squad for tomorrow night, with all the internationalists returning, plus Nasi Manu on the bench.

Anyone planning on going to the game? I've got a half day so think I might!

Need to try to find some free tickets first...

[InjuredYetAgain]

You're a bloody engineer - just dig a tunnel, man! (Which will no doubt be finished late and over-budget)

[funnyExiledScot]

I had planned to go tomorrow but I've been bullied by my work to go to some book festival lecture we're sponsoring.

I like the team Solomons has picked. Keen to hear how Ritchie and Dean get on.

[RDW]

Big statement to pick him again despite coman, Bradbury and Manu all being available.

[funnyExiledScot]

Agreed. I've yet to see an awful lot from him, and he looks on the small side to me, but Solomons clearly rates him.

I'm leaving Stockbridge incidentally. Too much "new" money. Moving to Trinity. This turn of events has lead me to conclude that Goldenacre would be an excellent place for Edinburgh to play more rugby. Alternative we could bulldoze Fettes (something the Nats would surely wave through) for a new stadium.

[RDW]

Disaster - Mrs RDW-to-be has suggested we go for an early dinner in Stockbridge tonight before the rugby.

I'll definitely be needing to try to get a free ticket!

[funnyExiledScot]

Disaster - Mrs RDW-to-be has suggested we go for an early dinner in Stockbridge tonight before the rugby.

I'll definitely be needing to try to get a free ticket!

I would suggest Francos, and describe it as a high end fish restaurant.

Beware of The Bon Vivant - lovely for a drink but I usually need to order a pizza after I've had dinner there.

[RDW]

I know Francos well - best chippy in Edinburgh!

Sadly she's got more expensive tastes though. I put my foot down at Scran and Scally - I'd have to sell my car to afford 2 courses there!

[funnyExiledScot]

I know Francos well - best chippy in Edinburgh!

Sadly she's got more expensive tastes though. I put my foot down at Scran and Scally - I'd have to sell my car to afford 2 courses there!

I love the food there but I would concur regarding the prices. That said, it's always rammed. My suspicion is that most of their "regulars" are in fact posh students.

[RDW]

Ooft, strong Ulster team tonight - Tommy Bowe and Andrew Trimble ffs!

Personally I'm not looking forward to McClosky v Strauss

Ulster team & replacements to play Edinburgh, Pre-season friendly, Goldenacre, Friday 28th August (18:30 kick off): (15-9) C Gilroy, T Bowe, L Marshall, S McCloskey, A Trimble, I Humphreys, P Marshall; (1-8): A Warwick, R Herring (Captain) W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, C Ross, S Reidy, R Diack. Replacements: P Jackson, R Murphy, R Lutton, P Browne, W Faloon, D Shanahan, S Windsor, S Arnold, L Ludik, P Nelson, C Joyce.

[funnyExiledScot]

Jeez! McCloskey and Marshall in the centres is pretty hefty. A proper test for Chris Dean. Luckily for us they will meet a wall of leadership and experience in Andries Strauss.....

If Burleigh doesn't know this already, aimless kicks to Gilroy at fullback will very likely be run back with interest!

[RDW]

Gilroy, Trimble and Bowe you mean...

[funnyExiledScot]

Gilroy, Trimble and Bowe you mean...

Well Trimble and Bowe are pretty sensible players, and are more likely to kick it back with an up and under rather than run it from everywhere, whereas Gilroy I suspect will just put his foot on the gas and jink his way past our big hitters like Strauss and McLennan.

Our forwards are ok, but our backs are seriously outclassed. Hopefully Ian Humphreys will have a bad day at the office!

[RDW]

10 mins in and we haven't touched the ball yet...

[RDW]

Strauss caught in no man's land going for the interception, McClosky breaking through anv Bowe scoring in the corner.

5-3

[RDW]

Edinburgh finally manage to string some phases of possession together - attacking on their line.

[RDW]

Good rumble try from the Edinburgh forwards - 10-5 Edinburgh.

Try Bradbury!

[RDW]

Lovely try from Katoa after a great bit of skill from Burleigh!

Nathan Fowles playing very well, and Bradbury is making some huge carries

[RDW]

Lots of impact coming from the subs - Hoyland looking electric

[RDW]

Rory Sutherland making a big difference in the scrums

[RDW]

FT 23-10 win.

Strong Edinburgh performance across the squad, Ulster were poor after a good start.

Will give more details later!

[jimbopip]

Well done the Luvvies

[RDW]

So as promised (in case anyone cares), a look at the individuals from last night:


Front row

Shiells has had two starts now but hasn't showed up well - scrum was under the cosh with him on, and was more solid when Dell and particularly Sutherland came on.

Hilterbrand was playing hooker, maybe he's just providing world cup cover. Good to see George Turner getting some game time too. Lineout seemed to run well with both.

Andress played 80 minutes - Berghan was water boy. Scrum struggled at the start but improved as the game went on.

2nd row

Looks like normal service has resumed - Bresler and Ben Toolis our standout locks. McKenzie didn't show up so much, nor Alex Toolis. Ben especially made a big impact off the bench.

Back row

7 players filled the back row over the 80 minutes, with Ritchie and Bradbury getting 20 mins each. Ritchie threw himself about but Bradbury made more of an impact he is a much bigger ball carrier. Du preez had a quiet game by his standards, and Coman looked physical when he came on. Manu didn't look overly fit - no surprise really. He's a big physical bloke though who will suit our tight game well.

Very difficult decision to make on open side - Watson was his all action best when he came on! Arms and legs everywhere, very difficult to put down and keep down. I just think Grant's tight game and mauling suits our style better. I'd be happy with either though.

Scrum half

Fowles is starting to look the real deal - Similar to Hidalgo-Clyne in his style of play. Hopefully he carries on in this regard. Good to see Kennedy make a return, but his passing wasn't great. Had a good break though.

Stand off

There only was one - Burleigh, who was very good. His kicking game is excellent (off both feet) and showed a lovely piece of skill for Katoa's try. If him and Tonks share the 10 shirt I think we'll be ok this season.

Centre

Strauss was bad. At fault for their first try, and anonymous apart from that. Chris Dean hardly saw the ball but looked to have something about him when he did. He looks a big strong guy though - worth giving him a run. Beard and Johnson also came on.

Back 3

Hoyland and Brown were the stand outs - Hoyland in particular and was a complete Tyro when he came on. He's similar to Watson - very difficult to put down. Fife did ok, and Katoa's only touch of the ball was to run in the first try! McLennan and Cuthbert both did ok at fullback, although McLennan had one awful messed up clearing kick.

So all in all a strong performance throughout the squad, with our bench making the most impact. Still concerns in the midfield (I.e. Strauss) and the front row is yet to convince.

I hope we'll see the following next week against Leinster:

Sutherland
Cochrane
Andress
Bresler
Toolis
Coman
Watson/Grant
Du Preez

Fowles
Burleigh
Hoyland
Strauss (no one else)
Dean
Fife
Cuthbert

Subs - Dell, Turner, Berghan, McKenzie, Grant/Watson, Kennedy, Beard, Brown

[George Carlin]

That was a great result for Edinburgh against (on paper) a very competent Ulster team. Two good pre-season games in a row bode well. I'm assuming that there won't be any others for Edinburgh before the start of the season?

[RDW]

Well the season starts next week, so no!

Completely forgot we had Will Helu still to come in too - plenty competition on the wings this year! He's away with Tonga just now.

And to think at stages last year we were playing Hidalgo-Clyne, Cuthbert and beard on the wings...

[Manky-Flanker]

Anybody watching the Glasgow Canada game later? Favaro starting at 6 ( interesting as I thought he was dropped by Italy due to injury). Also Mike Blair at 9, haven't seen him play in a while

[EST]

Strong performance from Edinburgh.

They are putting together a very abrasive pack, especially in the second and third rows. If Hardie joins I'm struggling to think of a stronger group of back row players in the whole league.

[George Carlin]

And the Buckfast-quaffers line up in full:

15. Peter Murchie (Captain)
14. Lee Jones
13. Glenn Bryce
12. Fraser Lyle
11. Rory Hughes
10. Rory Clegg
9. Mike Blair

1. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
2. Pat MacArthur
3. Zander Fagerson
4. Tim Swinson
5. Kieran Low
6. Simone Favaro
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Josh Strauss

Replacements: George Hunter, Kevin Bryce, Mike Cusack, D'arcy Rae, Scott Cummings, James Eddie, Will Bordill, Jason Hill, Grayson Hart, Scott Wight, Mark Robertson, Robbie Fergusson and Junior Bulumakau.

[George Carlin]

Canada won 19-12, with that cheeky monkey DTH having the audacity to score and bite the hand that, er, used to feed him. Our man Bulumakau apparently scored another beaut. All bodes well.

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