The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

by R!skysports Wed 03 Jan 2018, 10:51 am

First topic message reminder :

Bicker away......

A nice video to start with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds9dwHAfy_M

Glasgow Warriors are one of the two professional rugby union sides from Scotland. The team plays in the Pro14 league and in the European Professional Club Rugby tournaments. In the 2014-15 season they won the Pro12 title and became the first Scottish team to win a major trophy in rugby union's professional era. #theyrock

Edinburgh Rugby (formerly Edinburgh Reivers, Edinburgh Gunners and a real rugby team) is one of the two professional rugby teams from Scotland, although hard to determine if they play rugby. The club ~~competes~~ dances in the Pro14, along with Glasgow Warriors, its oldest rival. Since January 2017, Edinburgh plays most of its home games at Myreside Stadium with selected matches at BT Murrayfield.

kiss

The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war….. - Page 2 Davefr10

by **RDW** Fri 12 Jan 2018, 9:08 pm

Edinburgh up against it 19-26 with 15 to go

by **RDW** Fri 12 Jan 2018, 9:08 pm

Spoke too soon Edinburgh try!

by **RDW** Fri 12 Jan 2018, 9:16 pm

Edinburgh have taken SHC off and VDV had missed two kicks that would have out us in the lead

by **RDW** Fri 12 Jan 2018, 9:28 pm

Exciting end Edinburgh 34 stade 33 - great win Edinburgh!

by tigertattie Fri 12 Jan 2018, 9:55 pm

Sounds like it was a good game!

by des Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:31 pm

It was good.
Not as good as "that" Racing game but very entertaining.

Scrum held up well for the first few, then started to crumble a bit. Don't think we had any obvious injuries to the front row which is a relief.
Their third try came from a clear mistake by the linesman but it probably galvanised us a bit. I'm not saying we would want to give away 7 points but it didn't damage us as much as you'd expect.
There was also a scuffle involving Kinghorn but it looked like the Stade player was the only one to throw a punch. It was caused by another Stade player that seemed to stamp on Bennett's knee and Kinghorn retaliated.

All in all, 7/10. Stade seemed to care and were not a pushover and we beat them.

by **RDW** Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:37 pm

Who were the standout players des?

by des Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:55 pm

Mata, Kinghorn and Watson. Probably in that order although Watson got motm.
Bradbury carried well too but looked pretty beaten up before he went off.

by **BigGee** Sat 13 Jan 2018, 1:36 am

Twitter reports of Sutherland going off injured, was that the case?

Not so good news for the Scotland squad if so.

by des Sat 13 Jan 2018, 7:34 am

Yup, forgot about that actually. Head knock from colliding with another Edinburgh player's boot I think. Looked like a Stade player pushed one into the other.

by **RDW** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:59 am

Edinburgh highlights

http://hwcdn.net/r5u4x8g8/cds/27549-11.mp4

Some good tries - VDW's show and go in particular, and Watson showed great pace for his. The tries we conceded were pretty soft though, with kinghorn being brushed aside for one of them.

by des Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:23 am

One of theirs was due to a clear out way beyond a "golf umbrella" radius. There was no TMO but Sutherland was clearly held and wasn't happy about it.

It's tricky watching a game with no replays but Sutherland's head knock didn't look very concussive. He was bent over forwards holding the side of his head possibly trying to see if there was blood.

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:26 am

Well they certainly stuttered a bit, but they did get over the line. A match Edinburgh would most certainly have lost in recent years.

Learning to win is difficult and takes some time and effort. It then becomes a habit.

Edinburgh are certainly a much improved team this year and the future looks brighter than for a long time.

by **RDW** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 12:22 pm

And by all accounts the Stade team were no mugs either - they were powerful and determined. Not the team that lost to Krasny!

They'll likely put out their C team next week, as should we, but will be a good test for the youngsters.

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 12:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:And by all accounts the Stade team were no mugs either - they were powerful and determined. Not the team that lost to Krasny!

They'll likely put out their C team next week, as should we, but will be a good test for the youngsters.

Don't know about that. If they want a home semi then they should be aiming to win this one as well. Hard to see Stade being to bothered about it.

by **RDW** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 1:00 pm

We already have a home semi final confirmed, and Cockerill said if we won on Friday he'd rotate the squad.

by des Sun 14 Jan 2018, 1:30 pm

We have a home quarter final but there's seeding for the semis too. A win would give us the best possible path to the final. Although 8th could still be someone like Bordeaux.

by Hazel Sapling Sun 14 Jan 2018, 2:52 pm

Edinburgh need to go into the next round with no fear. It is the question of making sure they keep up their league form whilst they compete for the cup. Donald is not as good as the Aussie 10 (can't spell it or be asked to look it up) and they need to keep putting pressure on Ulster.

Glasgow on the other hand will likely play all those who need a run out before the 6 nations. Otherwise they should be blooding youngsters (Wynne, Smith, Fagerson back row, McDonald-Peterson second row, G Horne at 9, Thomson at 10 or 15)

by EWT Spoons Mon 15 Jan 2018, 9:56 am

Cockers came out after the game and said there were no new injury concerns, apparently Sutherland got a knee to the back, but should be fine.

To be fair though he seemed to be struggling with his shoulder for a fair bit of the game, but hopefully that was just a bump and he'll be fine.

The Stade team was probably the most physical side we have played this year, they were massive across the park and they really went to town on Mata. He was taking some massive hits and looked delighted when he was taken off....until Bradbury got a head knock and Mata had to come back on again, felt really sorry for him.

I don't know if Fowles did himself any favours in the game, we were closing the game out, taking the ball, going to ground and recycling, just killing time for the last minute or so, until randomly Fowles decided that a box kick was the way forward giving them the ball. Total madness, but he redeemed himself by winning the penalty at the end, although it wasn't a position we needed to be in, given he box kicked with something like 20 seconds on the clock left.

by des Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:03 pm

Stade flooded the previous 2 rucks and Fowles was struggling to get the ball back. We had almost no forwards left for the next ruck and I think he panicked a bit. I definitely felt he should have been able to wind down the last 20 seconds by going to the backs but maybe the box kick was more of a known quantity? Still seemed bonkers at the time though.

by **RDW** Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:04 pm

SHC did the same in the 1872 first leg at the end of the 1st half - we did so well to turn over Glasgow on our own line then made a right mess of closing out the half with only seconds to go, ultimately giving Glasgow one last attacking lineout (which they messed up).

by **BigGee** Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:09 pm

Which kind of proves what we already know, that both Fowles and SHC are far from being international quality SHs.

Surely Edinburgh need to be in the market for a decent SH next year, it is a position that is soon going to become their weakest link.

From a Scotland pov as well, surely we need SQ international players playing at home in all of these positions.

by EWT Spoons Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:19 pm

des wrote:Stade flooded the previous 2 rucks and Fowles was struggling to get the ball back. We had almost no forwards left for the next ruck and I think he panicked a bit. I definitely felt he should have been able to wind down the last 20 seconds by going to the backs but maybe the box kick was more of a known quantity? Still seemed bonkers at the time though.

To me it seemed like there was enough forwards left to take the ball to ground again. To be fair though pretty much anything would have been better than kicking the ball away, with 20 seconds left.

by **RDW** Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:31 pm

BigGee wrote:Which kind of proves what we already know, that both Fowles and SHC are far from being international quality SHs.

Surely Edinburgh need to be in the market for a decent SH next year, it is a position that is soon going to become their weakest link.

From a Scotland pov as well, surely we need SQ international players playing at home in all of these positions.

You really don’t rate SHC! I don’t think the problem is as bad as you make it. Yes none of Edinburgh’s options are (currently) international class, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is a problem position at Edinburgh, nor are we likely to be able to sign someone who is (without spending loads of money, which would be better spent elsewhere). SHC is definitely at least good Pro 12 standard and the other two are certainly nowhere near the Chris Leck scraping the barrel kind of players that we had in the squad a few years ago. If SHC leaves Cockerill will have to decide whether to rely on Fowles and Kennedy (with Charlie Shiel coming through), and indeed his hands may be tied as we will likely struggle to get a player who is much better than that lot.

SHC was outstanding when he first broke through, and his form at the time was the best out of any of Scotland’s 9s – for various reasons that didn’t lead to him establishing himself in the national team. He still young enough that he may get back to that form, and he has certainly been better this season that the last few seasons – and may get even better as Edinburgh’s form improves and he plays with a decent 10 for the first time in a long time. Yes his passing needs work and the example I cited from the 1872 isn’t ideal, but it’s not as if Price doesn’t make any mistakes. SHC also has international class goal kicking stats (albeit not proven on the international stage) – this isn’t as important now that Russell is kicking well but it isn’t something we should just ignore. I’d be far more comfortable with SHC kicking for Scotland than Horne.

Laidlaw was older when he broke through into the Scotland team – SHC doesn’t have as much competition as Laidlaw did but at 24 he’s got plenty time to make it as a regular international player!

by EWT Spoons Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:56 pm

Got to agree with RDW. SHC is finding form again, I think we have to recognise for the last few years Edinburgh have been a basket case, playing a limited and at times woeful game plan, which has made most of the team look poor.

For most this season he's been pretty respectable, with the odd mistake here and there, which most players (especially ones who play such a pivotal position) are prone to make.

I'd be fairly happy with SHC being the starting 9 for Edinburgh for the moment, and hopefully Shiel (who cockers has called out as a talent) makes the step up

by **BigGee** Mon 15 Jan 2018, 2:10 pm

I think SHC needs to move on and get out of his comfort zone and see if he does have what it takes. You can only be a promising player for so long and he has been it for a very long time. Cockers does not play him often enough to suggest that he is convinced about him either and the fact that Toonie choose Fowles over him in the autumn speaks volumes. He has been far to comfortable at Edinburgh.

Some rumours suggest that might be happening, Bristol has been mentioned.

I am not saying that players can't turn it around at his age and he clearly was a talented youngster for whom it all seemed to come very easily. He has not progressed though, the basics of his game, passing and kicking are just not good enough. He is very quickly going to get bypassed by the Horne's and maybe Vellacott's of this world for Scotland and if Edinburgh continue to improve and he does not, then he won't be what they need either.

by reallybored Mon 15 Jan 2018, 2:56 pm

Agree with RDW & Spoons, SHC is definitely playing better this season and could/should be challenging for a RWC spot come 2019.

I think Edinburgh have played better with him guiding the ship from scrum-half. He's got a very good tactical kicking game and a top goal-kicker.

Be a shame if he was released from Edinburgh, needs to improve his service though.

by TJ Tue 16 Jan 2018, 10:15 am

Was the Edinburgh / Stade game not recorded at all? Usually after a few days its up on youtube but nowt this time

by EWT Spoons Tue 16 Jan 2018, 1:48 pm

TJ wrote:Was the Edinburgh / Stade game not recorded at all? Usually after a few days its up on youtube but nowt this time

Was far from a classic, probably not one anyone really wants to relive.

by **RDW** Tue 16 Jan 2018, 1:49 pm

Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPsXafGxXQs

by tigertattie Wed 17 Jan 2018, 9:26 am

My god that strip hasn't improved over the years!

This has me thinking, does the colour of a strip increase or decrease your chances of being caught infringing? It's common knowledge that the blackness often get away with blue murder, is this because infringements done in the refs peripheral vision are less likely to be spotted in their all black attire whereas someone like Stade could have a player marginally offside but his garish outfit catches the eye of the ref?

by **BigGee** Wed 17 Jan 2018, 9:49 am

tigertattie wrote:My god that strip hasn't improved over the years!

This has me thinking, does the colour of a strip increase or decrease your chances of being caught infringing? It's common knowledge that the blackness often get away with blue murder, is this because infringements done in the refs peripheral vision are less likely to be spotted in their all black attire whereas someone like Stade could have a player marginally offside but his garish outfit catches the eye of the ref?

Sounds like another French conspiracy theory!

To my mind if you wear a kit as garish as that, then you get what you deserve!

by tigertattie Wed 17 Jan 2018, 9:55 am

BigGee wrote:
tigertattie wrote:My god that strip hasn't improved over the years!

This has me thinking, does the colour of a strip increase or decrease your chances of being caught infringing? It's common knowledge that the blackness often get away with blue murder, is this because infringements done in the refs peripheral vision are less likely to be spotted in their all black attire whereas someone like Stade could have a player marginally offside but his garish outfit catches the eye of the ref?

Sounds like another French conspiracy theory!

To my mind if you wear a kit as garish as that, then you get what you deserve!

oh I don't disagree, but I'm wondering if some stats geek has some analysis on what teams get pinged most. Or if Scotland get pinged more when wearing the white strip!

by EWT Spoons Wed 17 Jan 2018, 9:57 am

They spent most the game offside so based on a sample of 1 game it works 100% for going unnoticed.

I can only assume the stadium lights reflects off it, and affects the officials eyesight. They missed a Stade player punching Kinghorn, and gave them the penalty (which is why fans are booing during one of the penalties), they also randomly gave Stade a lineout thinking an Edinburgh player touched a ball when he couldn’t have made it more clear he was letting it go and was no where near it.

I’m sure there were dubious decisions for both sides, just those ones stick out.

by **BigGee** Wed 17 Jan 2018, 10:42 am

George Turner signs on at Glasgow for another couple of years.

Another Edinburgh player whose career has been turned around following a move west.

Any other talented players you have over there, that you have been woefully misusing. Feel free to send them over to Glasgow and we will see if we can turn them around.

No need to say thanks!

by EWT Spoons Wed 17 Jan 2018, 11:16 am

To be fair, he was behind Ford, who prior to his injury was possibly in the best form he's ever been in, as well as behind Scotland's first choice hooker.

Woefully misusing seems a bit excessive Smile

To be fair though I would have liked to see him get more gametime at Edinburgh, but this move makes sense for all parties.

If you fancy taking the Bryces and Meatball back to Glasgow, to thank us for giving you Turner, it would be appreciated.

by tigertattie Wed 17 Jan 2018, 11:47 am

using the same logic, Glasgow were misusing Bennett so he's been sent to a decent team where tactics are actually used rather than everyone being told to "just ran about like dafties"

by **BigGee** Wed 17 Jan 2018, 11:53 am

tigertattie wrote:using the same logic, Glasgow were misusing Bennett so he's been sent to a decent team where tactics are actually used rather than everyone being told to "just ran about like dafties"

I guess you are right. Those sort of tactics would never get you to the top of the league any time.

Or would they?

by **RDW** Wed 17 Jan 2018, 12:10 pm

Edinburgh certainly should have given Turner more gametime over the last few seasons, but he was never going to get regular gametime with Ford and McInally ahead of him and Cochrane providing a consistent and dependable backup. We also don’t know what his attitude or training performance was like – he may have not done enough at training to persuade the coaches to play him. This wasn't help by being part of the Solomons era then transition phase afterwards, granted.

Remember Glasgow took him on basically because there was no one left – they knew he was promising, but they could not reasonably claim to have known that he would flourish quite as much as he has.

by tigertattie Wed 17 Jan 2018, 12:29 pm

BigGee wrote:
tigertattie wrote:using the same logic, Glasgow were misusing Bennett so he's been sent to a decent team where tactics are actually used rather than everyone being told to "just ran about like dafties"

I guess you are right. Those sort of tactics would never get you to the top of the league any time.

Or would they?

Ahhhh but they do result in you losing games when a team with structure comes along and rattles your cage Hug

by **BigGee** Wed 17 Jan 2018, 1:49 pm

tigertattie wrote:
BigGee wrote:
tigertattie wrote:using the same logic, Glasgow were misusing Bennett so he's been sent to a decent team where tactics are actually used rather than everyone being told to "just ran about like dafties"

I guess you are right. Those sort of tactics would never get you to the top of the league any time.

Or would they?

Ahhhh but they do result in you losing games when a team with structure comes along and rattles your cage

Are you talking about Edinburgh?

Just remind me what the score was last time we played?

by reallybored Wed 17 Jan 2018, 2:52 pm

Edinburgh vs Stade game, an interesting watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDWTzb-r8pc

Again really impressed by Edinburgh's performance. Stade's defence was very physical and well organised but Edinburgh stuck to the task and got it done.

McInally is playing unbelievably well right now.

Good shifts from McCallum, Toolis, Gilchrist, Watson and Mata up-front.

Rasolea, Hoyland & Kinghorn the standouts in the backs.

Bradbury is wasted at 6 hitting rucks and supporting play imo.

by **BigGee** Wed 17 Jan 2018, 3:06 pm

https://twitter.com/RugbyInsideLine/status/953597663370412032/photo/1

Haskell to Glasgow!

That one is a bit left field and not one that I would ever have seen coming.

1. Would he be good for us?

He is a big name and a big player, though coming towards the end of his career. I guess it would depend on what his motivation is for coming. He has done a bit of travelling around before, NZ, Japan and France. Maybe he just wants to tick off the Pro 14 as well. What effect would he have on the rest of the squad as well.

2. Could we afford him?

You would not imagine he would be coming to Glasgow for the weather. It may well be his last professional contract and no doubt he will want it to represent his market value.

I can't imagine we could afford him without letting another big name go. Looking in terms of current back rowers who are out of contract, you might imagine that could be Ryan Wilson, who will also be looking for a fairly serious contract this time around and was one of the many players on the Bristol wish list at one stage.

If it came to the choice, I would rather keep Wilson, but I guess that would come down to who is being offering what.

What this season has definitely shown though is that we are a big carrying back row short and that has cost us in the euro games. We do need strengthening in that department. Whether that would be Haskell or an unknown NZ player with a Scottish Granny remains to be seen?

by Hazel Sapling Wed 17 Jan 2018, 7:03 pm

Can't imagine Haskell coming to Glasgow. Money has been freed up with the departure of Russell but really Glasgow need a true 8 (Ashe can't stay fit long enough, Strauss is gone and M Fagerson has not developed fully yet). Haskell is a 6.5 and is ideally suited to being a flanker rather than at 8. With Gibbins, Wilson (who I assume will stay), Smith and hopefully Wynne (if he kicks on), Glasgow don't really improve and spend considerably on an NSQ player who is aging out.

There are not many who fit the role of what an 8 is likely to be asked to do in our system. I would hope between Lineen and Rennie they have a young bloke from NZ (or the Pacific Islands) in mind.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Wed 17 Jan 2018, 7:26 pm

BigGee wrote:https://twitter.com/RugbyInsideLine/status/953597663370412032/photo/1

Haskell to Glasgow!

That one is a bit left field and not one that I would ever have seen coming.

1. Would he be good for us?

He is a big name and a big player, though coming towards the end of his career. I guess it would depend on what his motivation is for coming. He has done a bit of travelling around before, NZ, Japan and France. Maybe he just wants to tick off the Pro 14 as well. What effect would he have on the rest of the squad as well.

2. Could we afford him?

You would not imagine he would be coming to Glasgow for the weather. It may well be his last professional contract and no doubt he will want it to represent his market value.

I can't imagine we could afford him without letting another big name go. Looking in terms of current back rowers who are out of contract, you might imagine that could be Ryan Wilson, who will also be looking for a fairly serious contract this time around and was one of the many players on the Bristol wish list at one stage.

If it came to the choice, I would rather keep Wilson, but I guess that would come down to who is being offering what.

What this season has definitely shown though is that we are a big carrying back row short and that has cost us in the euro games. We do need strengthening in that department. Whether that would be Haskell or an unknown NZ player with a Scottish Granny remains to be seen?

1. No
2. Don't care as would not take him if gift wrapped and draped in gold bars.

A complete arse and also up his own.

Who can forget ahem ... 'Brand Haskell'. Getting some kid in trouble with his school because the kid had the temerity to criticise Haskell the Brand. The guy is a kingsize knobber. Not his kind of club and as has been said elsewhere I smell schieze here.

by jimbopip Wed 17 Jan 2018, 7:28 pm

If you look at the article it says "is speaking to Glasgow".
I often speak to my dead granny, doesn't mean I'm going round to hers for tea and biccies.

by Eejit Wed 17 Jan 2018, 7:30 pm

What an odd rumour. Certainly he’s got bags of experience and he’s bloody massive. Wonder if it’s true that there’s a coaching element to it.

That would be some first choice back row of true.

by **BigGee** Wed 17 Jan 2018, 7:40 pm

jimbopip wrote:If you look at the article it says "is speaking to Glasgow".
I often speak to my dead granny, doesn't mean I'm going round to hers for tea and biccies.

Good of you to join us Jim, you have been a bit quiet recently.

Took the prospect of Brand Haskell opening a Glasgow branch to rouse you!

I am sensing you are not in favour!

by jimbopip Wed 17 Jan 2018, 7:49 pm

Ah Gee, I think he's a bit too Hampstead for us. He's probably got Red White And Blue Brexit knickers.

He's not a bad, as in really honkingly bad..bad enough to play for the Luvvies bad, as it happens but he's not a Warrior.
Actually he'd fit right in in Stockbridge.

by **BigGee** Wed 17 Jan 2018, 7:55 pm

jimbopip wrote:Ah Gee, I think he's a bit too Hampstead for us. He's probably got Red White And Blue Brexit knickers.

He's not a bad, as in really honkingly bad..bad enough to play for the Luvvies bad, as it happens but he's not a Warrior.
Actually he'd fit right in in Stockbridge.

You are probably right, we can waive our rights to him and buy him a single ticket to Waverley.

Unknown Strapping Kiwi youngster with a Scottish Granny it is then!

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