The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

by R!skysports Wed 03 Jan 2018, 10:51 am

First topic message reminder :

Bicker away......

A nice video to start with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds9dwHAfy_M

Glasgow Warriors are one of the two professional rugby union sides from Scotland. The team plays in the Pro14 league and in the European Professional Club Rugby tournaments. In the 2014-15 season they won the Pro12 title and became the first Scottish team to win a major trophy in rugby union's professional era. #theyrock

Edinburgh Rugby (formerly Edinburgh Reivers, Edinburgh Gunners and a real rugby team) is one of the two professional rugby teams from Scotland, although hard to determine if they play rugby. The club ~~competes~~ dances in the Pro14, along with Glasgow Warriors, its oldest rival. Since January 2017, Edinburgh plays most of its home games at Myreside Stadium with selected matches at BT Murrayfield.

kiss

The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war….. - Page 3 Davefr10

by jimbopip Wed 17 Jan 2018, 8:00 pm

USKY with Ayr residing Granny. We only want them if they're World Class.

by 123456789 Wed 17 Jan 2018, 10:02 pm

On the Haskell to Glasgow situation part of me thinks Glasgow signing a washed up ex-England international who is evidently on the way down probably is not the way to push toward being a real player on the European stage. With respect to Haskell, a player whom I don’t rate as a great rugby player, he does not seem to be all that motivated by money. He travelled around the world after the 2011 World Cup, you can guarantee that he would have taken a pay cut from Stade in New Zealand and Japan. He also said he had very few offers on the table so Glasgow may be his only one. Lastly there’s no doubt about it Scotland seem to have a block with England at the moment, considering we’ve not beaten them since 2008 and produced some unimaginably poor performances in a fixture Scotland traditionally rise up for. Glasgow players getting experience of a man who is perhaps the embodiment of the English rugby player stereotype might help overturn that. A big, ugly, arrogant private school boy. But as well as that he has leadership experience with Wasps, has won the Heineken cup, the premiership and the six nations, he’s toured with the lions and came through in a wasps team full of World Cup winners. In short, as a player I’m not convinced he’d ever have been good enough to turn Glasgow into European champions, let alone now, but off the field I think he could have a positive effect and at the very least I can’t see him being a negative.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:12 am

Re Haskell : we have one mouthy-southy already so don't need another and I happen to think he is a far better player than Haskell - Ryan Wilson our club captain !

by **George Carlin** Thu 18 Jan 2018, 2:32 pm

Haskell is probably only 57 at the moment, so presumably has at least 3 good seasons left in him.

by Hazel Sapling Fri 19 Jan 2018, 9:56 am

In looking up how long Fagerson was out for, I saw Murchie retired. Was that mentioned? He was a good player for Glasgow until the last couple of years. Concussions ended his career.

Is this a sign of things to come with Brown, Taylor and Reid all having issues in recent times?

by **BigGee** Fri 19 Jan 2018, 10:16 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:In looking up how long Fagerson was out for, I saw Murchie retired. Was that mentioned? He was a good player for Glasgow until the last couple of years. Concussions ended his career.

Is this a sign of things to come with Brown, Taylor and Reid all having issues in recent times?

I would not say concussions ended his career. It was coming to its natural conclusion anyway with the move away from Glasgow and he was wanting to move into coaching.

Getting another concussion and with no real motivation to continue playing was what finally called it for him. This was going to be his last season anyway. It is not the same as younger players who are medically advised to stop because of repeated concussions. Frazer Brown is the one who is in danger of coming into this category.

Once that is the medical opinion, the player is effectively un-insurable and the clubs and unions won't play them regardless of whether they want to carry on or not. The decision is therefore taken away from them.

by tigertattie Fri 19 Jan 2018, 11:38 am

Isn't George North one KO away from being forced to quit too?

It really is a brutal game so you need to be careful of these things. Thats the downside to professionalism I'm afraid. In the amateur set up, if you are not feeling up to playing, you just don't play. A pro player though feels more obliged to play when he is not fully fit as his/her livelihood is on the line!

by **RDW** Fri 19 Jan 2018, 12:07 pm

Edinburgh team to play Stade Francais in the European Challenge Cup at the Stade Jean-Bouin on Saturday 20 January (kick-off 9pm local time / 8pm GMT) - live on BT Sport.

15 Darcy Graham (4)

14 Damien Hoyland (57)
13 Mark Bennett (2)
12 Junior Rasolea (22)
11 Duhan van der Merwe (7)

10 Jaco van der Walt (7)
9 Nathan Fowles (49)

1 Rory Sutherland (57)
2 Cameron Fenton (5)
3 Murray McCallum (32)
4 Fraser McKenzie CAPTAIN (94)
5 Lewis Carmichael (22)
6 Magnus Bradbury (42)
7 Jamie Ritchie (43)
8 Cornell Du Preez (95)

Replacements: 16 Neil Cochrane (65), 17 Kevin Bryce (11), 18 Matt Shields (6), 19 Grant Gilchrist (113), 20 Viliame Mata (27), 21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (99), 22 James Johnstone (13), 23 Dougie Fife (96)

by EWT Spoons Fri 19 Jan 2018, 12:18 pm

That is a very very young team. Average age of the starting 15 is 23, and that is brought up by McKenzie who at 29, is by far the oldest player there.

Front row is 23, 22, 21! (to keep in line with the thread title - 22 is the average age of this front row)

by Eejit Fri 19 Jan 2018, 4:18 pm

Samu and Kebble both playing club rugby on Saturday. Imagine trying to tackle them...

by tigertattie Fri 19 Jan 2018, 4:36 pm

It's ridiculous to have a profession prop of the likes of Kebble playing against an amateur in the scrum! I don't care what anyone says, there is a significant risk of injury to the amateur fella in these situations!

by **BigGee** Fri 19 Jan 2018, 4:58 pm

tigertattie wrote:It's ridiculous to have a profession prop of the likes of Kebble playing against an amateur in the scrum! I don't care what anyone says, there is a significant risk of injury to the amateur fella in these situations!

I am sure the pros are more than aware of their responsibilities and don't go full bore in the scrums. A good few of the professional props have played in the club games before and there have not been any issues.

Back my playing days, before any subs or rules about only props being able to prop. If a prop got injured then usually one of the flankers had to step in (me, who did not know the first thing about propping), the opposing brute in the front row used to take great delight in working you over. The only thing I ever gained from that experience was to believe that I had made a good choice growing up when deciding not to become a prop!

Kebble main goal will be to run around a lot and try to get himself match fit!

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 4:39 pm

In other news Bristol have announced 9 new signings for next season. It is an impressive list but no SHC - an Aussie 9 from the rebels instead. Of course his signing may still be announced but it does seem less likely now.

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 5:17 pm

On the subject of SHs, George Horne was outstanding again today and probably is pretty unlucky not to be in the Scotland squad on that and other showings.

I get that Toonie probably wants him to get a bit more game time first before throwing him in, but you would have to say currently that Fowles and Henry P are just keeping the place warm for him.

Greg Laidlaw ame on for the last 8 mins of the Clermont game, kicked a goal and closed out the game for them comfortably.

Expect to see him doing that for Scotland in the 6N.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 5:21 pm

Worth noting that Horne's passing wasn't the best today with Russell having to catch a few daisy cutters and passes above his head! He's certainly electric in open play though

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 5:42 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Worth noting that Horne's passing wasn't the best today with Russell having to catch a few daisy cutters and passes above his head! He's certainly electric in open play though

At that level it seems to be all about the speed of pass. The top SHs just chuck it out like a missile and great FHs like FR seem to be able to catch it. For ordinary mortals like me, they would probably take your head off. That fraction of a second when they are playing flat to the gain line is like an hour in slow motion to them when they are trying to do something with it.

Was there not a famous quote the first time Barry John played with Gareth Edwards. When GE asked him how he liked his pass, BJ came out with 'you just chuck it Gar and I'll catch it'

I guess that is why Toonie is not bringing him in yet though, for all his brilliance, he is still a work in progress.

by 123456789 Sat 20 Jan 2018, 5:45 pm

BigGee wrote:
tigertattie wrote:It's ridiculous to have a profession prop of the likes of Kebble playing against an amateur in the scrum! I don't care what anyone says, there is a significant risk of injury to the amateur fella in these situations!

I am sure the pros are more than aware of their responsibilities and don't go full bore in the scrums. A good few of the professional props have played in the club games before and there have not been any issues.

Back my playing days, before any subs or rules about only props being able to prop. If a prop got injured then usually one of the flankers had to step in (me, who did not know the first thing about propping), the opposing brute in the front row used to take great delight in working you over. The only thing I ever gained from that experience was to believe that I had made a good choice growing up when deciding not to become a prop!

Kebble main goal will be to run around a lot and try to get himself match fit!

Being quite chubby going into puberty I was chucked at hooker when I started playing, by school senior rugby age I’d made the move to centre which in turn became fly-half. Unfortunately the 1st XV coach by that stage was the same one who’d played me at hooker which meant I had a season of starting at 10 or 12 but also being the second choice hooker. Unfortunately the first choice hooker had a habit of getting himself injured, I took a little consolation from the confused look from the opposing front row when the opposition fly-half dawdled into the scrum. The major downside was that being primarily a back I never practised scrummaging and was chucked in on one occasion against a trio of county playing brutes who tore me apart.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 5:53 pm

BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Worth noting that Horne's passing wasn't the best today with Russell having to catch a few daisy cutters and passes above his head! He's certainly electric in open play though

At that level it seems to be all about the speed of pass. The top SHs just chuck it out like a missile and great FHs like FR seem to be able to catch it. For ordinary mortals like me, they would probably take your head off. That fraction of a second when they are playing flat to the gain line is like an hour in slow motion to them when they are trying to do something with it.

Was there not a famous quote the first time Barry John played with Gareth Edwards. When GE asked him how he liked his pass, BJ came out with 'you just chuck it Gar and I'll catch it'

I guess that is why Toonie is not bringing him in yet though, for all his brilliance, he is still a work in progress.

So Horne's passing is ok because even though he passes to ankles he passes it there quickly?? Laugh

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 5:57 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Worth noting that Horne's passing wasn't the best today with Russell having to catch a few daisy cutters and passes above his head! He's certainly electric in open play though

At that level it seems to be all about the speed of pass. The top SHs just chuck it out like a missile and great FHs like FR seem to be able to catch it. For ordinary mortals like me, they would probably take your head off. That fraction of a second when they are playing flat to the gain line is like an hour in slow motion to them when they are trying to do something with it.

Was there not a famous quote the first time Barry John played with Gareth Edwards. When GE asked him how he liked his pass, BJ came out with 'you just chuck it Gar and I'll catch it'

I guess that is why Toonie is not bringing him in yet though, for all his brilliance, he is still a work in progress.

So Horne's passing is ok because even though he passes to ankles he passes it there quickly??

Basically yes, as long as you have a FH who can catch it there and you beat Exeter!

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 7:32 pm

Edinburgh game is on BT sport at 8. I've just bought myself a Chromecast and have BT sport on my phone as part of my new deal so bye bye to dodgy internet links!

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:06 pm

Not a good start Edinburgh - kick off goes over the tryline, give away a penalty at the first ruck then stade score within 2 minutes!

Pitch is in s complete state - it already looks like a tattie patch.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:10 pm

Edinburgh's first scrum on Stade's ball stood up well but we were completely annihilated on our own ball.

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:13 pm

He was in front of the kicker!

Still it looks a bit worrying for Edinburgh, could get messy here.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:13 pm

Could be a long 80 minutes for this young Edinburgh team - 2 tries down after 10 minutes

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:15 pm

We're looking like rabbits caught in the headlights. Not much leadership being shown on the pitch just now

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:17 pm

Darcy Graham running into 2 of the biggest blokes in the stade team picard

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:26 pm

Darcy Graham getting absolutely smashed in every contact leading to turnovers

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:27 pm

Edinburgh looking like they've just met in the carpark!

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:29 pm

Edinburgh look like they have never played together before.

A lot of changes to the team, so not so surprising.

The pitch is absolutely awful as well, that is not helping, no one can keep their feet.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:31 pm

Darcy Graham looking like an under 12s player so far! Bumped in the tackle by the Stade winger

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:34 pm

Fenton has obviously been taught scrummaging by Ross Ford - he hasn't hooked a ball yet

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:37 pm

Darcy Graham's defensive positioning has been appalling at 15

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:46 pm

Could really have done with those 3 points!

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:53 pm

Well 12-0 HT is a pretty good result for Edinburgh given how bad we've been and Stade's early tries. The whole team needs a kick up the arse at half time - the only player to come out with pass marks is CDP who has been the only player to match Stade physically.

Fowles doing his best to stay as 4th choice scrum half when the Scotland squad meets up and Graham showing that he's really not a 15!

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 8:55 pm

Well on the positive side (and it is really hard to take anything positive from this) - it is still only 12 - 0

This truly is an awful game.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:17 pm

Edinburgh have had 5 or 6 lineouts near Stade's line and they've messed up every one

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:21 pm

Well whatever Cockers said to them at half time, it seems to have worked. That and the subs!

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:23 pm

Darcy Graham making the turnover, very impressive

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:24 pm

Aye Edinburgh look a lot more purposeful now - helped by some of the substitutions made

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:25 pm

Another messed up lineout!!!! McKenzie has spilt so many tonight

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:28 pm

Watching McKenzie's performance tonight you've got to wonder if it was the right decision to offload bresler.

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:31 pm

Another really soft try, defence went AWOL

Not a night to be chasing a game unfortunately and not helped by an inability to win any lineouts

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:36 pm

Darcy Graham limps off.

Pretty tough night for him playing on this pitch, he has certainly tried hard, but no way to use pace or agility on a ploughed field of a pitch

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:48 pm

Great finish Dougie Fife - could get a BP out of this!

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:52 pm

Just to make Kevin Bryce's transition to prop more complicated he's now come on at loosehead...and did pretty well to be fair!

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 9:57 pm

Performance really wasn't good but credit to Edinburgh for digging in and coming away with a BP.

Going to need a lot of improvement from those players during the 6N break though!

by **BigGee** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 10:02 pm

Well to be fair, that was a much better second half and you would have to say that Edinburgh were the better side. In better conditions, they might have made more of a game of that once they settled into the game.

I know I am a bit hard on him sometimes, but SHC definitely was the better of the two SHs on show for Edinburgh today and his passing, considering the conditions was actually pretty good. Admittedly the Edinburgh pack was going a whole lot better in the second half, but Fowles was so slow and his box kicking was poor as well.

Bennett is not quite there yet, but that is understandable and like Graham he was never going to show his wares on this pitch. Plaudits to the props as well, who put in a very good effort against a big old French pack.

Stade are going to have to go to Newcastle now, that will be a tough one for them.

Edinburgh get Blues, which is very winnable, but then probably away for the semi.

by **RDW** Sat 20 Jan 2018, 10:36 pm

Jamie Lyle on BBC saying we'll be playing the QF at Murrayfield which I think is a mistake - you can't build a following at a new ground without playing big games there! Edinburgh would surely sell out myreside and it would create a good atmosphere.

by 123456789 Sat 20 Jan 2018, 11:47 pm

Has Hidalgo-Clyne not kicked on or actually got worse? At one point it seemed a case of when not if he replaced Laidlaw. From what I've seen it's been a steady decline since Laidlaw schooled him but admittedly I'm not sure I've watched an entire Edinburgh game for years. At this rate, he seems at great risk of getting stuck behind Horne and Price. It does seem one of those cases in which an Edinburgh player would do better at Glasgow. If it wasn't for the Scotland selection side of things I think a swap between Hidalgo-Clyne and Pyrgos would be in the interest of all parties.

by TJ Sun 21 Jan 2018, 9:11 am

I think SHC suffered badly from playing behind a soft Edinburgh pack and getting rubbish ball all the time - lost confidence as well. He looks to be coming back into form as the pack appear to have had some steel inserted up their fundaments by cockers

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