Wales vs Scotland - Inaugural Doddie Weir Cup

First topic message reminder :

WALES vs SCOTLAND

Saturday the 3rd of November 2018

Principality Stadium, Cardiff Wales

KO: 14:45

This game will be the first occasion when a newly created 'Doddie Weir Cup' will be played for - donated by the Welsh Rugby Union, the trophy will continue to be at stake when the two sides meet in future similar circumstances.

In June 2017 former Scotland international and British & Irish Lion Doddie Weir revealed he was suffering from Motor Neurone Disease and, from the outset, has been driven to help fellow sufferers and seek ways to further research into the, as yet, incurable disease.

Doddie and his Trustees launched the registered charity 'My Name'5 Doddie Foundation' and a series of Welsh rugby initiatives over the course of the weekend will raise money for the foundation and bring Scottish and Welsh rugby communities together.

https://www.myname5doddie.co.uk/

Wales Team
1. Nicky Smith (21 Caps) 2. Ken Owens (57 Caps) 3. Dillon Lewis (5 Caps) 4. Cory Hill (18 Caps) 5. Alun Wyn Jones (117 Caps) (CAPT) 6. Dan Lydiate (62 Caps) 7. Justin Tipuric (57 Caps) 8. Ross Moriarty (23 Caps) 9. Gareth Davies (33 Davies) 10. Gareth Anscombe (18 Caps)11. Luke Morgan (*UNCAPPED) 12. Hadleigh Parkes (8 Caps) 13. Jonathan Davies (65 Caps) 14. George North (76 Caps) 15. Leigh Halfpenny (78 Caps)

Replacements: 16. Elliot Dee (10 Caps) 17. Rob Evans (27 Caps) 18. Leon Brown (3 Caps) 19. Adam Beard (4 Caps) 20. Aaron Wainwright (1 Cap) 21. Tomos Williams (2 Caps) 22. Jarrod Evans (UNCAPPED) 23. Steff Evans (10 Caps)

Scotland Team
Kinghorn (Edinburgh); Seymour, H Jones, Dunbar, L Jones; Hastings, Price (all Glasgow); Dell, McInally (capt), Nel, Toolis (all Edinburgh), Gray (Glasgow), Ritchie, Watson (both Edinburgh), Wilson (Glasgow).

Replacements: Brown, Allan (both Glasgow), Berghan, Gilchrist (both Edinburgh), Fagerson, G Horne, P Horne (all Glasgow), Graham (Edinburgh).

RiscaGame wrote:SQUAD TO PLAY SCOTLAND
15. Leigh Halfpenny (78 Caps)
14. George North (76 Caps)
13. Jonathan Davies (65 Caps)
12. Hadleigh Parkes (8 Caps)
11. Luke Morgan (*UNCAPPED)
10. Gareth Anscombe (18 Caps)
9. Gareth Davies (33 Davies)
1. Nicky Smith (21 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (57 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (5 Caps)
4. Cory Hill (18 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (117 Caps) (CAPT)
6. Dan Lydiate (62 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (57 Caps)
8. Ross Moriarty (23 Caps)

REPLACEMENTS:
16. Elliot Dee (10 Caps)
17. Rob Evans (27 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (3 Caps)
19. Adam Beard (4 Caps)
20. Aaron Wainwright (1 Cap)
21. Tomos Williams (2 Caps)
22. Jarrod Evans (UNCAPPED)
23. Steff Evans (10 Caps)

I figured Gatland might experiment a little with the players missing, but still a few surprises for me.

Smith very strong on the LH side of the scrum, Owens and Lewis very good around the field. I didn’t expect Hill to start, I thought it’d be Ball with Beard on the bench. As far as Wales back-rows go I think that’s the worst we’ve put out in years. You all know I don’t rate Tipuric that highly whilst the other two are pretty one dimensional - that would explain the selection of Lewis who is a bit of a turnover machine. This team selection is all defend and counter, might not work if Scotland can keep the ball.

The backs look good but still have my reservations about Morgan on the wing. Gatland must have just wanted a speedster there - it’s an experiment that could go wrong then we have a poor performing Stef Evs to replace him. Not much experience on the rest of the bench but they’re all good players. Pleased for Jarrod Evans who I expect will be getting his first cap late on in the game.

I don’t agree AWJ is lucky to be there. He might not be as dynamic as he once was but he has the expertise we can’t get from any of our other locks; and of course he’s the captain.

Lastly Ellis Jenkins, assuming he’s injured because it’s daft to leave out a 7 playing this well?

Also I think we got this. Gatland is home (in Wales) and that gives me confidence as a fan. Reading his interview I think he’s sending out the right messages to the squad in terms of preparation and the sort of challenge we’ll get from the Scots. I think he’s also right in believing the Scotland halfbacks can be got to, and we’ll have to get to them otherwise they could have a field day like they did at the arms park.

Wales by 10-15 probably. I wouldn’t be surprised by a big win for the home side to be honest. I think it could be a bad Autumn for Scotland and Wales normally smash them.

Depends if Scotland have fixed their travel sickness as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure Scotland are, against Six Nations teams at least, on average between 20 and 30 points worse away than at Murrayfield. Chuck into the mix defeats against the USA and Fiji and you have an enormous issue.

I don't think there's that much between the teams, the experience issue is there but let's remember it takes 5-10 years to rack up the number of caps some of the Welsh players have. What was the situation 5 years ago? Wales provided 13/15 players for a Lions tour off the back of consecutive Six Nations wins and an utter humbling of England. At that point Scotland were the square root of useless, donkeys led by the donkey in chief. In other words Scotland have better players now than they did then. That being said the players with a lot of caps that we do have will be missed; Richie Gray, Stuart Hogg, Greig Laidlaw and Finn Russell are real game changers when on form.

I think, however, it'll be a lot tighter than has been suggested. Scotland have a team of young, hungry players who have a real opportunity to put a marker down in the biggest of international years. My heart says Scotland by 40, my head has Wales by 5.

Numbers - worth remembering we have also beating Australia and pumped Argentina both away in recent times, and there very much mitigating circumstances regarding our defeats to USA and Fiji (we put out very experimental and inexperienced teams in an end of season tour).

There's no doubting though we have an away problem against all the 6N teams bar Italy. We have come close several times but haven't been able to convert a win for a long time.

123456789. wrote:Depends if Scotland have fixed their travel sickness as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure Scotland are, against Six Nations teams at least, on average between 20 and 30 points worse away than at Murrayfield. Chuck into the mix defeats against the USA and Fiji and you have an enormous issue.

I don't think there's that much between the teams, the experience issue is there but let's remember it takes 5-10 years to rack up the number of caps some of the Welsh players have. What was the situation 5 years ago? Wales provided 13/15 players for a Lions tour off the back of consecutive Six Nations wins and an utter humbling of England. At that point Scotland were the square root of useless, donkeys led by the donkey in chief. In other words Scotland have better players now than they did then. That being said the players with a lot of caps that we do have will be missed; Richie Gray, Stuart Hogg, Greig Laidlaw and Finn Russell are real game changers when on form.

I think, however, it'll be a lot tighter than has been suggested. Scotland have a team of young, hungry players who have a real opportunity to put a marker down in the biggest of international years. My heart says Scotland by 40, my head has Wales by 5.

So do Wales. Have Scotland ever beaten Wales by 40 at home let alone away ?

Scotland have never scored 40 points against Wales, let alone won by that many.

I really hope I am wrong, but this has a comfortable Wales win written all over it.  We don't travel all that well, and we especially don't travel well to Cardiff.

Add to that Wales, whilst having a few newer players in the squad, are stocked full of experience.

In terms of the team put out, Price has only just come back into form after his horror showing in Wales earlier this year, Hastings only has a handful of starts at club level, let alone internationally so our halfbacks could be targeted.

Our back row is up against a world class trio.  We have a player still learning the game in Ritchie, Watson is still looking to find his best form, and Wilson who many (myself included) cannot work out how he keeps getting games for Scotland.

We also have the near certainty that Dunbar will get injured, probably fairly early in the match and we will then have to try and reshuffle with P.Horne coming on.

I'm normally very optimistic (mostly unjustified) ahead of Scotland games, but for this one I just can't see anything other than a fairly routine Wales win.

EWT Spoons wrote:I really hope I am wrong, but this has a comfortable Wales win written all over it.  We don't travel all that well, and we especially don't travel well to Cardiff.

Add to that Wales, whilst having a few newer players in the squad, are stocked full of experience.

In terms of the team put out, Price has only just come back into form after his horror showing in Wales earlier this year, Hastings only has a handful of starts at club level, let alone internationally so our halfbacks could be targeted.

Our back row is up against a world class trio.  We have a player still learning the game in Ritchie, Watson is still looking to find his best form, and Wilson who many (myself included) cannot work out how he keeps getting games for Scotland.

We also have the near certainty that Dunbar will get injured, probably fairly early in the match and we will then have to try and reshuffle with P.Horne coming on.

I'm normally very optimistic (mostly unjustified) ahead of Scotland games, but for this one I just can't see anything other than a fairly routine Wales win.

I was following you until that point - you'd probably to struggle to even find Welsh fans that agree with you! Most of the Welsh people on here don't know why Lydiate is picked, Moriarty really isn't an international class 8 (he is at blindside though) and though Tupiric may have been banging on the door of world class over the years, and is still a class player, he's no longer as influential in games IMO. It is a bloody hard, physical back row but I think we should be able to match them well as long as we're sensible - no point running straight into Lydiate and Moriarty as you'll get smashed. We need to be clever with our carrying and use the pop passes just before contact to try the gaps.

Three Lions then

I just think they will have a lot of success at the breakdown. Moriarty and Tuperic are superb players and whilst Moriarty might not be great at 8, he'll be a total menace in defence, and as I say, also when the ball is on the deck.

They are also greatly experienced at the ruck. Ritchie is still learning those skills, Watson is certainly up there as a very good player, but I don't think he's shown the form from previous seasons so far this year. Wilson isn't a great 8, nor is he all that good at 6 or 7 either, certainly if you compare him to his Welsh counterparts.

The whole pack is fairly tidy over the ball - Tipuric not a fetcher like Ellis or Warburton though.

I didn’t know Jenkins wasn’t fully fit. Just read in an Argus article that he still has to do contact drills for his shoulder injury. So that explains that non selection.

This is the first time Parks and JD2 have played together at Test level.

This is going to be the birth of a very beautiful relationship

jimbopip wrote:Chentlemen, a word please.

Sadly, Caz the quiet Bokkie has unfortunately been taken ill and won't be journeying to Murrayfield for the Boks' game.

This means his ticket is available, the downside is it's beside the Brumeister and meself.

Also there is a flight from Stansted to Luvvietoon on the Saturday morning and back on the Sunday morning. Caz has written off the cost, but if anyone wants them and is willing to make a contribution that would be nice.

I have organised an Airbnb for the three of us which is paid for for whether its just Bru and me or if there are three of us so that's a free place to doss. Can't be bad.


PM me if interested.

Hmm, would somoene want to go to a game with a wordy know it all and a gentleman with one testicle?

Lots of confident Welsh fans on here! You know Scots do best when underdogs and generally fall flat on our faces when perceived to win (i.e. the last time we played), so let's see how it goes.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Lots of confident Welsh fans on here! You know Scots do best when underdogs and generally fall flat on our faces when perceived to win (i.e. the last time we played), so let's see how it goes.

In our defence its a confidence based on decades of results and facts

munkian wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Lots of confident Welsh fans on here! You know Scots do best when underdogs and generally fall flat on our faces when perceived to win (i.e. the last time we played), so let's see how it goes.

In our defence its a confidence based on decades of results and facts

Ach you can prove anything with facts!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

munkian wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Lots of confident Welsh fans on here! You know Scots do best when underdogs and generally fall flat on our faces when perceived to win (i.e. the last time we played), so let's see how it goes.

In our defence its a confidence based on decades of results and facts

Ach you can prove anything with facts!

Apologies, completely inappropriate for here

munkian wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

munkian wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Lots of confident Welsh fans on here! You know Scots do best when underdogs and generally fall flat on our faces when perceived to win (i.e. the last time we played), so let's see how it goes.

In our defence its a confidence based on decades of results and facts

Ach you can prove anything with facts!

Apologies, completely inappropriate for here

What were you thinking man!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

munkian wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

munkian wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Lots of confident Welsh fans on here! You know Scots do best when underdogs and generally fall flat on our faces when perceived to win (i.e. the last time we played), so let's see how it goes.

In our defence its a confidence based on decades of results and facts

Ach you can prove anything with facts!

Apologies, completely inappropriate for here

What were you thinking man!

I'd gone a bit mad there Ted

munkian wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

munkian wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

munkian wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Lots of confident Welsh fans on here! You know Scots do best when underdogs and generally fall flat on our faces when perceived to win (i.e. the last time we played), so let's see how it goes.

In our defence its a confidence based on decades of results and facts

Ach you can prove anything with facts!

Apologies, completely inappropriate for here

What were you thinking man!

I'd gone a bit mad there Ted

Down with this sort of thing!

tigertattie wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Chentlemen, a word please.

Sadly, Caz the quiet Bokkie has unfortunately been taken ill and won't be journeying to Murrayfield for the Boks' game.

This means his ticket is available, the downside is it's beside the Brumeister and meself.

Also there is a flight from Stansted to Luvvietoon on the Saturday morning and back on the Sunday morning. Caz has written off the cost, but if anyone wants them and is willing to make a contribution that would be nice.

I have organised an Airbnb for the three of us which is paid for for whether its just Bru and me or if there are three of us so that's a free place to doss. Can't be bad.


PM me if interested.

Hmm, would somoene want to go to a game with a wordy know it all and a gentleman with one testicle?

But that's who I'm going with: Bru told me you would be joining us.

jimbopip wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Chentlemen, a word please.

Sadly, Caz the quiet Bokkie has unfortunately been taken ill and won't be journeying to Murrayfield for the Boks' game.

This means his ticket is available, the downside is it's beside the Brumeister and meself.

Also there is a flight from Stansted to Luvvietoon on the Saturday morning and back on the Sunday morning. Caz has written off the cost, but if anyone wants them and is willing to make a contribution that would be nice.

I have organised an Airbnb for the three of us which is paid for for whether its just Bru and me or if there are three of us so that's a free place to doss. Can't be bad.


PM me if interested.

Hmm, would somoene want to go to a game with a wordy know it all and a gentleman with one testicle?

But that's who I'm going with: Bru told me you would be joining us.

I find your parochial mannerisms and idiosyncrasies profusely enigmatic Sir!

PS, I don't know half the big words you do Jimbo!

I'll introduce you to some, but it'll cost you in beer.

p.s. if the backs get enough ball on Saturday we will tear the Welsh defence to shreds.

Aldi Price to have a stormer.

jimbopip wrote:I'll introduce you to some, but it'll cost you in beer.

p.s. if the backs get enough ball on Saturday we will tear the Welsh defence to shreds.

Aldi Price to have a stormer.

Would love it if this is true but its a game of international rugby.

It'll either be a close win for us, or a close win for them, or we'll hump em by 15+ or they'll hump us by 15+, or it'll be a draw.

Anyone who thinks they can predict a game accurately clearly watches too much peppa pig episodes at night!

I mean, we are well known for our porous defence

For a while a few seasons ago, our defence did suddenly become relatively sh!t. I don't know why it happened. It's sorted itself out now though.

I wonder if that episode contributed to Gatland's decision to take Andy Farrell over Shaun Edwards on the last Lions tour.

I couldn’t call this game either way, but I would normally favour the home team in a lot of games between six nations teams, if I was to part with money.

My biggest concern this weekend is watching Dragons lose in Galway anyway

RiscaGame wrote:I couldn’t call this game either way, but I would normally favour the home team in a lot of games between six nations teams, if I was to part with money.

My biggest concern this weekend is watching Dragons lose in Galway anyway

I like the team we've put out !

RiscaGame wrote:I couldn’t call this game either way, but I would normally favour the home team in a lot of games between six nations teams, if I was to part with money.

My biggest concern this weekend is watching Dragons lose in Galway anyway

I agree with the odds usually being 6/4 in favour of the home team, but Toonie will be wanting to right the sh*tfest of the 6 Nations' match AND the Doddie Weir factor will feed into it too.

As for the Dragons; surely you must be used to the constant disappointment?

jimbopip wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:I couldn’t call this game either way, but I would normally favour the home team in a lot of games between six nations teams, if I was to part with money.

My biggest concern this weekend is watching Dragons lose in Galway anyway

I agree with the odds usually being 6/4 in favour of the home team, but Toonie will be wanting to right the sh*tfest of the 6 Nations' match AND the Doddie Weir factor will feed into it too.

As for the Dragons; surely you must be used to the constant disappointment?

Are you used to it as a Scotland fan ?

My last five matches; two defeats at Twickenham , narrow loss to The Criminal Element at Murrayfield and then this season's defeat at the Principality.

The eagle-eyed among you, or anyone who has never played prop, will have counted that that is only four; the fifth was our glorious victory over England this year and despite having tickets, flights and a room in the Hilton all paid for I never got be there.

Disappointment comes in so many forms. As MrsPip often says.

munkian wrote:

123456789. wrote:Depends if Scotland have fixed their travel sickness as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure Scotland are, against Six Nations teams at least, on average between 20 and 30 points worse away than at Murrayfield. Chuck into the mix defeats against the USA and Fiji and you have an enormous issue.

I don't think there's that much between the teams, the experience issue is there but let's remember it takes 5-10 years to rack up the number of caps some of the Welsh players have. What was the situation 5 years ago? Wales provided 13/15 players for a Lions tour off the back of consecutive Six Nations wins and an utter humbling of England. At that point Scotland were the square root of useless, donkeys led by the donkey in chief. In other words Scotland have better players now than they did then. That being said the players with a lot of caps that we do have will be missed; Richie Gray, Stuart Hogg, Greig Laidlaw and Finn Russell are real game changers when on form.

I think, however, it'll be a lot tighter than has been suggested. Scotland have a team of young, hungry players who have a real opportunity to put a marker down in the biggest of international years. My heart says Scotland by 40, my head has Wales by 5.

So do Wales. Have Scotland ever beaten Wales by 40 at home let alone away ?

Just to clarify, in common parlance the head/heart phrase serves the purpose of distinguishing between the rational decision making of the brain based on facts, figures and situation whereas the heart is the more emotional, irrational, pipe dreaming organ. So to make it very clear I think it is likely to be victory for Wales although not by as much as has been suggested in some quarters, however from an emotional, irrational perspective I would always back Scotland to win.

123456789. wrote:

munkian wrote:

123456789. wrote:Depends if Scotland have fixed their travel sickness as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure Scotland are, against Six Nations teams at least, on average between 20 and 30 points worse away than at Murrayfield. Chuck into the mix defeats against the USA and Fiji and you have an enormous issue.

I don't think there's that much between the teams, the experience issue is there but let's remember it takes 5-10 years to rack up the number of caps some of the Welsh players have. What was the situation 5 years ago? Wales provided 13/15 players for a Lions tour off the back of consecutive Six Nations wins and an utter humbling of England. At that point Scotland were the square root of useless, donkeys led by the donkey in chief. In other words Scotland have better players now than they did then. That being said the players with a lot of caps that we do have will be missed; Richie Gray, Stuart Hogg, Greig Laidlaw and Finn Russell are real game changers when on form.

I think, however, it'll be a lot tighter than has been suggested. Scotland have a team of young, hungry players who have a real opportunity to put a marker down in the biggest of international years. My heart says Scotland by 40, my head has Wales by 5.

So do Wales. Have Scotland ever beaten Wales by 40 at home let alone away ?

Just to clarify, in common parlance the head/heart phrase serves the purpose of distinguishing between the rational decision making of the brain based on facts, figures and situation whereas the heart is the more emotional, irrational, pipe dreaming organ. So to make it very clear I think it is likely to be victory for Wales although not by as much as has been suggested in some quarters, however from an emotional, irrational perspective I would always back Scotland to win.

or go for the moral victory!

jimbopip wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:I couldn’t call this game either way, but I would normally favour the home team in a lot of games between six nations teams, if I was to part with money.

My biggest concern this weekend is watching Dragons lose in Galway anyway

I agree with the odds usually being 6/4 in favour of the home team, but Toonie will be wanting to right the sh*tfest of the 6 Nations' match AND the Doddie Weir factor will feed into it too.

As for the Dragons; surely you must be used to the constant disappointment?

Pretty much used to it. Bit more positive this weekend though. Have a feeling in my bones, like I did when I watched my one away win at Sale years ago

Gee, if you're in Cardiff High Street enjoying a pre-match sweet sherry with Mrs Gee (The Yard is very jolly) it's almost time to head off. There were about six of us at the 6Nations game and we all missed the anthems, or heard them from the toilets, due to the "enhanced security measures". Lots of waiting and being searched; takes ages.

Two things you don't want to happen;

1) you miss the best anthems anywhere in World Rugby

2) you get caught short while being held in the queue, as happened to two Welsh lads dressed upas a Dragon and the Six Nations Trophy. Oh the panicked and embarrassed begging of, "Does anyone have an empty bottle or pint glass?....Please".

Other than that, enjoy the game.

Not sure if you guys have seen this, but my respect for Doddie has just increased even further seeing him speak so eloquently about his diagnosis

https://twitter.com/bbctheoneshow/status/1058086272453959680?s=21

jimbopip wrote:
Gee, if you're in Cardiff High Street enjoying a pre-match sweet sherry with Mrs Gee (The Yard is very jolly) it's almost time to head off. There were about six of us at the 6Nations game and we all missed the anthems, or heard them from the toilets, due to the "enhanced security measures". Lots of waiting and being searched; takes ages.

Two things you don't want to happen;

1) you miss the best anthems anywhere in World Rugby

2) you get caught short while being held in the queue, as happened to two Welsh lads dressed upas a Dragon and the Six Nations Trophy. Oh the panicked and embarrassed begging of, "Does anyone have an empty bottle or pint glass?....Please".

Other than that, enjoy the game.

*One good anthem and one ridiculous Corries song.

I may be late to the party on this one, but has Gregor Townsend got a touch of the Quentin Tarantinos?!

Wish we could cut out missed kicks to touch though

We're struggling to get over the gainline here - Wales have picked a defensive back row and they're dominating the collisions so far.

Lee Jones abandoning his wing there. Thought this was jones mark 2?

Looks like jones of old to me

?

His tackle prevented a try!

That was a very long advantage to Wales. For me the fact we nearly scored, or had the opportunity to score, means we’ve used the advantage we were given rather than the ref blowing up earlier in the move.

Long advantage - a bugbear of mine.

We're giving away far too many penalties

What with these silly grubbers that just give wales the ball???

Kicking too much / too early

First scrum 23 minutes in!