Wales vs Scotland - Inaugural Doddie Weir Cup

First topic message reminder :

WALES vs SCOTLAND

Saturday the 3rd of November 2018

Principality Stadium, Cardiff Wales

KO: 14:45

This game will be the first occasion when a newly created 'Doddie Weir Cup' will be played for - donated by the Welsh Rugby Union, the trophy will continue to be at stake when the two sides meet in future similar circumstances.

In June 2017 former Scotland international and British & Irish Lion Doddie Weir revealed he was suffering from Motor Neurone Disease and, from the outset, has been driven to help fellow sufferers and seek ways to further research into the, as yet, incurable disease.

Doddie and his Trustees launched the registered charity 'My Name'5 Doddie Foundation' and a series of Welsh rugby initiatives over the course of the weekend will raise money for the foundation and bring Scottish and Welsh rugby communities together.

https://www.myname5doddie.co.uk/

Wales Team
1. Nicky Smith (21 Caps) 2. Ken Owens (57 Caps) 3. Dillon Lewis (5 Caps) 4. Cory Hill (18 Caps) 5. Alun Wyn Jones (117 Caps) (CAPT) 6. Dan Lydiate (62 Caps) 7. Justin Tipuric (57 Caps) 8. Ross Moriarty (23 Caps) 9. Gareth Davies (33 Davies) 10. Gareth Anscombe (18 Caps)11. Luke Morgan (*UNCAPPED) 12. Hadleigh Parkes (8 Caps) 13. Jonathan Davies (65 Caps) 14. George North (76 Caps) 15. Leigh Halfpenny (78 Caps)

Replacements: 16. Elliot Dee (10 Caps) 17. Rob Evans (27 Caps) 18. Leon Brown (3 Caps) 19. Adam Beard (4 Caps) 20. Aaron Wainwright (1 Cap) 21. Tomos Williams (2 Caps) 22. Jarrod Evans (UNCAPPED) 23. Steff Evans (10 Caps)

Scotland Team
Kinghorn (Edinburgh); Seymour, H Jones, Dunbar, L Jones; Hastings, Price (all Glasgow); Dell, McInally (capt), Nel, Toolis (all Edinburgh), Gray (Glasgow), Ritchie, Watson (both Edinburgh), Wilson (Glasgow).

Replacements: Brown, Allan (both Glasgow), Berghan, Gilchrist (both Edinburgh), Fagerson, G Horne, P Horne (all Glasgow), Graham (Edinburgh).

Very fair

RDW_Scotland wrote:

As an aside does anyone else think that the rule to give a penalty for double movement when trying to score is
 incredibly harsh and not really within the spirit of the game? Given that we want to see teams attack and tries being scored it doesn't seem right for it to be such a game changer, especially when in the heat of battle it is often the natural thing for s player to do when they're close to the line. Just a thought!

Possibly. But I guess it is sort of cheating as the player is technically out of the game once they have placed the ball initially so they shouldn’t be going back for a second bite of the cherry. Or do you mean chainging the law entirely to allow double movements?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Trying to put a positive spin on things, despite really not playing well we were milimeters away from scoring twice late on which would have put us right back in the game. Indeed if the Horne try had stood we would have been within 4 points, 8 minutes to go and a man advantage - would have been an interesting finale.

Exactly, I was so certain Scotland would score during this period of sustained pressure and really thought Horne had scored that try as well until the TMO had a look. I think, as you say, had Scotland scored then it was game on for that last 10 mins.

My takeaways would be

Positives - Good driving maul, some decent attacking moments at times, some great kicking to territory especially by Kinghorn and Hastings, lineout was much better and some interesting little throws to the front.

Negatives - Weak defensive decision making from Dunbar and Jones and I wonder if perhaps they are just not the right combination at international level, wasteful kicks when close to the Welsh 22 boosting the Wale's confidence in defence as Scotland looked under pressure, lack of a decent ball carrier to get over the gainline and to sure up the scrum, not taking 3 points when on offer and chasing the game (when has this ever worked in Scotland's favour?), basic errors due to rustyness, the backs often getting tangled up in messy plays (Wales were much more organised and id the basics well).

The ref - I thought he was a bit off his game at times (the TMO had to remind him he had called advantage to Scotland at one point when the ball was held up over the Welsh line ) My main gripe was at the breakdown. He was whistle happy around this area when players got over the ball but then seemed perfectly happy to let both teams forwards flop over the ball for a while before rolling away which really slowed the pace of the game down. Price complained about this on numerous occasions and it got a bit ridiculous at times. His penalty against Gray was an odd one too (unless there's an infringement for making a carry into an opposition player?). He also seemed obsessed about players being offside and I think his penalty against Wales was harsh as he lost his footing and fell forwards.

I definitely don't think they should allow all double movements as in normal play there is a reason for that law. I also don't think they should allow double movements in the act of scoring but instead of a penalty it should be dealt with the same as if the ball was held up - i.e. attacking team scrum.

Thing is, if you don't penalise it, then players will just do it all the time with impunity, as if they are playing advantage. They have nothing to lose as sometimes they will get away with it

BigGee wrote:Thing is, if you don't penalise it, then players will just do it all the time with impunity, as if they are playing advantage. They have nothing to lose as sometimes they will get away with it

Agreed, not sure where you are going with that one RDW, it wasn't even a double movement, it was one movement, the full version of Stairway then a completely different movement.

I was surprised at Dee’s card too. He stumbled but I don’t think Scotland were in a scoring position at the time either. French ref’s have always been Poopie, almost as bad as SH refs.

Who got man of the match? did not see the end of the game.

majesticimperialman wrote:Who got man of the match? did not see the end of the game.

Tipuric. Martyn Williams’ choice I think. Although I’m not sure he would have been my choice. Saying that I’m not sure who I’d give it to. No real stand outs.

So with my calmer head on now

Biggest disappointment was the forwards playing trundlemppetry!  Honestly how many pick and goes within 5m without ever looking like they were going to get in.  Someone needed to show leadership and do something else.  Not trusting Hastings so not giving it to the backs?  At times they were screaming for the ball unmarked!

I thought Hastings did well overall.  Early mistake, Wales targeting him ( fairly ! ) Only got caught in possession once IIRC and even then got the ball away.  Didn't create much - half a dozen times he went to make the pass but then decided not to as there was a red shirt in the way.  He will never have had so little time and space to work in.

I think missing Laidlaw, Russell and Hogg was just too much.  Thats a lot of experience to be missing and while Laidlaw may not be our best 9 his calm head would have made a difference today.   Any one of those three playing today I think we might have won.  Without them we never looked like doing so.  We had plenty of opportunity right down on their line but no cutting edge to score the tries

The Oracle wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Who got man of the match? did not see the end of the game.

Tipuric. Martyn Williams’ choice I think. Although I’m not sure he would have been my choice. Saying that I’m not sure who I’d give it to. No real stand outs.

Good call.  He was an utter pain in the backside all match.  I'm sure it was him late on dragging Hastings round while he tried to find the pass.  Watson had a great game as well.but Wales won the battle of the back rows and thats what won them the match so for me a good call

mikey_dragon wrote:I was surprised at Dee’s card too. He stumbled but I don’t think Scotland were in a scoring position at the time either. French ref’s have always been Poopie, almost as bad as SH refs.

I have to say me and the rest of the guys I was watching with were starting to ask how many penalties were going to be given away in the 22 before the yellow card came out. However the circumstances in which it was given seem distinctly unfair, firstly the fact he seemed to fall over, secondly to give the yellow card on the basis of someone else committing the same offence immediately before doesn't really work unless the ref stops the game and gives a warning.

"This game will be the first occasion when a newly created 'Doddie Weir Cup' will be played for - donated by the Welsh Rugby Union, the trophy will continue to be at stake when the two sides meet in future similar circumstances."

Does similar circs mean it will be like the Calcutta Cup- up for every clash, including the 6N?

Taylorman wrote:"This game will be the first occasion when a newly created 'Doddie Weir Cup' will be played for - donated by the Welsh Rugby Union, the trophy will continue to be at stake when the two sides meet in future similar circumstances."

Does similar circs mean it will be like the Calcutta Cup- up for every clash, including the 6N?

They have not been entirely clear on that one, but i believe that is the case.

I guess we will find out for sure in February!

Taylorman wrote:"This game will be the first occasion when a newly created 'Doddie Weir Cup' will be played for - donated by the Welsh Rugby Union, the trophy will continue to be at stake when the two sides meet in future similar circumstances."

Does similar circs mean it will be like the Calcutta Cup- up for every clash, including the 6N?

"Future similar circumstances" Next time a much loved player is terminally ill? Next time the unions need to make some extra cash?

Like the furore over, "Well we never actually said the gate money was going to the My Name Is Doddie appeal" this pronouncement reminds me of the slogan on the bus promising £350 million a week to the NHS.

Think one of the clips of the big man doing the rounds had him saying it would be played for each time the two nations compete.

So my assumption based on that would be that when the two teams face off in the 6 nations it'll be up for grabs again.

EWT Spoons wrote:Think one of the clips of the big man doing the rounds had him saying it would be played for each time the two nations compete.

So my assumption based on that would be that when the two teams face off in the 6 nations it'll be up for grabs again.

It'll start getting dusty on a shelf in Cardiff then

munkian wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Think one of the clips of the big man doing the rounds had him saying it would be played for each time the two nations compete.

So my assumption based on that would be that when the two teams face off in the 6 nations it'll be up for grabs again.

It'll start getting dusty on a shelf in Cardiff then

Far from it Munkian, you'll have to move it once a year to bring to the stadium, taunt us with it and then take it back to Cardiff again. It'll get a good dusting during that, just to rub it in

EWT Spoons wrote:

munkian wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Think one of the clips of the big man doing the rounds had him saying it would be played for each time the two nations compete.

So my assumption based on that would be that when the two teams face off in the 6 nations it'll be up for grabs again.

It'll start getting dusty on a shelf in Cardiff then

Far from it Munkian, you'll have to move it once a year to bring to the stadium, taunt us with it and then take it back to Cardiff again.  It'll get a good dusting during that, just to rub it in

At least Wales will win something every six nations.

Can't wait for the World Cup year when you win it at Cardiff in February, retain it in the group stages and then we win it, eventually, in the final.

jimbopip wrote:
Can't wait for the World Cup year when you win it at Cardiff in February, retain it in the group stages and then we win it, eventually, in the final.

I'd take that

I’m sure we’d all love that. Really brotherly love and all that.

Dontheman2 wrote:I’m sure we’d all love that. Really brotherly love and all that.

Anyone but the West Brits

TightHEAD wrote:At least Wales will win something every six nations.

While England will come 2nd as per

Pie wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:At least Wales will win something every six nations.

While England will come 2nd as per

Or 5th.