Scotland V England - The Calcutta Cup

Past results

2010	13 March	England	15–15	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	63	39	15
2011	13 March	England	22–17	Twickenham	London	64	39	15
2012	4 February	England	6–13	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	65	39	15
2013	2 February	England	38–18	Twickenham	London	66	39	15
2014	8 February	England	0–20	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	67	39	15
2015	14 March	England	25–13	Twickenham	London	68	39	15
2016	6 February	England	9–15[2]	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	69	39	15
2017	11 March	England	61–21[3]	Twickenham	London	70	39	15
2018	24 February	Scotland	25–13[4]	Murrayfield	Edinburgh	70	40	15
2019	16 March	Scotland	38–38	Twickenham	London	70	40	16

Teams


TBC





Furbank; May, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Heinz; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Kruis, Itoje, Ludlam, Underhill, Curry

Replacements: Dunn, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Lawes, Earl, Youngs, Devoto

Ah come on. At least change the last scotland flag to a union jackpot something. And dont give me the twaddle its supposed to represent the holder of the Calcutta cup!

When thinking about potential changes to make this weekend I struggled to decide who might come in. Let's put Finn Russell to the side in all this as we just don't know if he's going to be brought back in. I don't think he will be for this game.

Front row


Fraser Brown finally got his opportunity but I'm not sure he took it - he was part of the wayward lineout and gave away a stupid penalty. McInally made good impact when he came on but also had dodgy lineout. 50/50 for me.

Props to stay the same after strong displays, and Berghan back onto the bench as he was meant to be.

Second row


Starters to stay the same but I'd up the grunt on the bench with either Gilchrist or Skinner (whose not in the squad remember) brought in.

Back row


All probably deserve to get another shot, and we will be like for like with England particularly if we don't have a meaty 8 to worry about. If Bradbury is fit I'd bring him onto the bench.

Halfbacks


Price didn't overly convince and was one of the many who gave away a stupid penalty. I think Townsend will stick with him though - we may see changes in round 3.

Hastings, well, depends on Russell but I think he'd still start

Centres


If Tuilagi is meant to be fit I would bring in Matt Scott for the added physicality, but SJ and JOnes again probably deserve to keep their place. Jones was pretty quiet but we all know what happened last time at Murrayfield (as will the English)

Back 3


As has been mentioned on other threads they didn't really carry much threat, but in the absence in any other options we stick with what we have. Darcy Graham is a huge miss.

Sutherland
Brown
Fagerson
Gray
Cummings
Ritchie
Watson
Haining

Price
Hastings
Maitland
Johnson
Jones
Kinghorn
Hogg

Subs - Dell, McInally, Berghan, Gilchrist, Bradbury, Horne, Hutchinson, Harris

Same as the Ireland game but a meatier bench basically.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah come on. At least change the last scotland flag to a union jackpot something. And dont give me the twaddle its supposed to represent the holder of the Calcutta cup!

It is a Wikipedia copy and paste and the flag shows who collected the Calcutta Cup. As it was a draw Scotland retained the Cup as they won it the previous year.

Them's the rules!

Hard to argue with your team RDW, I'd possibly replace Johnson with Scott (I know you mentioned maybe doing that), but then again, last time Johnson & Jones lined up against England they both played a big part in that game.

I'd also bring McInally back in to start. Brown was fine, but I just think McInally is better

RDW wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah come on. At least change the last scotland flag to a union jackpot something. And dont give me the twaddle its supposed to represent the holder of the Calcutta cup!

It is a Wikipedia copy and paste and the flag shows who collected the Calcutta Cup. As it was a draw Scotland retained the Cup as they won it the previous year.

Them's the rules!

While we're at it, England retained the cup in 2010 when we drew 15-15 because they won it in 2009!

Looking through the history it is littered with the game being a draw and the previous owner retaining it.

EWT Spoons wrote:Hard to argue with your team RDW, I'd possibly replace Johnson with Scott (I know you mentioned maybe doing that), but then again, last time Johnson & Jones lined up against England they both played a big part in that game.

I'd also bring McInally back in to start.  Brown was fine, but I just think McInally is better

We keep thinking about their contribution to the amazing comeback, but these guys were also responsible for going 31 points down in the first place!

I don't see to many changes to the Scotland team unless there are any injuries we don't know about.

The mood music from Toonie was that he was likely to stick with the players who have been in the squad through this two week training block and that is therefore likely to exclude Russell from coming back or Skinner and Fagerson returning. You can see why he would do that, the players deserve that kind of loyalty from him. The week's break after this game is a much more opportune moment to refresh the squad.

I guess we will hear about any squad changes today and if not then it is stick to what we have got and that means more of the same, maybe with a couple of bench swaps and tweaks. No-one in the team last week had a stand out bad game, so all of them worthy of another crack in some shape or form.

Titles and sources always help then rdw. England wins scotland wins and draws on the end.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Titles and sources always help then rdw. England wins scotland wins and draws on the end.

Personally I love criticism on match threads from people who rarely make their own! 

That's good, some people would get upset rather than use it as a way to improve.

RDW wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Hard to argue with your team RDW, I'd possibly replace Johnson with Scott (I know you mentioned maybe doing that), but then again, last time Johnson & Jones lined up against England they both played a big part in that game.

I'd also bring McInally back in to start.  Brown was fine, but I just think McInally is better

We keep thinking about their contribution to the amazing comeback, but these guys were also responsible for going 31 points down in the first place!

It's a fair point. Ok I'm sold, bring in Scott for SJ

Missed the Ireland-Scotland game, how did Hastings go? Its been Russell led madness that has been the main area for Scotland when they have got the better of us over the last few years, but Hastings doesn't strike me as being enough of a maverick to do the same

RDW wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Titles and sources always help then rdw. England wins scotland wins and draws on the end.

Personally I love criticism on match threads from people who rarely make their own! 

Damn, I was going to jump in - but maybe do not make the qualifying mark


To England - Eddie will have to make some changes. Mako was earmarked for this game but having seen the way Marler and Genge were destroying the French tightheads I would argue both should go again. We have to then select a proper number 8 and add ballast to the second row.

England...balance the side up a bit..

1 Genge
2 George
3 Sinkler with a major kick up the a$$
4 Kruis
5 Lawes / Itoje
6 Curry
7 Underhill
8 Dombrandt

9 Youngs but we need a new 9
10 Farrell or Ford
11 Daly
12 Devoto
13 Joseph
14 May
15 Furbank -Give him a chance

Scrum was excellent. Tight 5 deserve credit for that along with the replacements. Lost lineouts for once I think you cant point firmly at the hooker. Hard to know what changes to that pack will be. We could get away with 1 change and see a considerable difference. Sorry for my peasantry rdw dont want to get on the wrong side of you as you're a great poster. ( let alone the mid thing).

No 7&1/2 wrote:Scrum was excellent. Tight 5 deserve credit for that along with the replacements. Lost lineouts for once I think you cant point firmly at the hooker. Hard to know what changes to that pack will be. We could get away with 1 change and see a considerable difference. Sorry for my peasantry rdw dont want to get on the wrong side of you as you're a great poster. ( let alone the mid thing).

 No worries 7.5 - I shouldn't have reacted that way.

Are england really that poorly stocked at 9 that Ben Youngs is still the best option?

Whats happened to Dan Robson or Joe Simpson?

Tramptastic wrote:Are england really that poorly stocked at 9 that Ben Youngs is still the best option?

Whats happened to Dan Robson or Joe Simpson?

Dan Robson is struggling this season, and Eddie feels he is too quiet (same accusation levelled at Spencer - along with thoughts he only looks good because he is at Sarries).

Joe Simpson is second choice to Willi Heinz at Glaws (and is 15 months older than Youngs so not one for the future).

The younger Mitchell at Saints is currently behind Reinach, Maunder(s) at Chiefs are behind Nic White, last seasons U20 SH is at Tigers. Basically the young guys are bench warming too much to be considered.

GeordieFalcon wrote:England...balance the side up a bit..

1 Genge
2 George
3 Sinkler with a major kick up the a$$
4 Kruis
5 Lawes / Itoje
6 Curry
7 Underhill
8 Dombrandt

9 Youngs but we need a new 9
10 Farrell or Ford
11 Daly
12 Devoto
13 Joseph
14 May
15 Furbank -Give him a chance

I really hope you don't go for that team - I'd much rather EJ stays stubborn and picks the same team!

Dombrandt at 8 could be a real star.

England playing so badly is probably the worst thing that could happen for Scotland! There will surely be a reaction this week.

Tramptastic wrote:Are england really that poorly stocked at 9 that Ben Youngs is still the best option?

Whats happened to Dan Robson or Joe Simpson?

Joe Simpson missed the boat (31 now too - maybe young by EJ's debut scrum half standards but still..)

Robson missed the RWC with blood clots. I believe he made a full recovery and is certainly back playing but I am not sure if he's showing good enough form.

BamBam wrote:Missed the Ireland-Scotland game, how did Hastings go? Its been Russell led madness that has been the main area for Scotland when they have got the better of us over the last few years, but Hastings doesn't strike me as being enough of a maverick to do the same

He did well mostly, a little hesitant in a few instances but he made some great kicks for territory and put Ireland under pressure with high balls. Some nice inside passes too. Zero grubbers which was actually nice to see, Russell can use that too much and ricochet off players legs creating a lot of unnecessary pressure on his teammates. If Hastings can play the same this weekend but add a few breaks and some better support lines he'll be wearing the 10 jersey for a while. Russell on form is incredible, but Russell off form is below an average Hastings performance in my view.

Hastings seems to have an impressively hard head given the Doris Day incident.

Finn Russell isn't in the training squad for this week.

The saga rumbles on!

RDW wrote:Finn Russell isn't in the training squad for this week.

The saga rumbles on!

Probably a good thing, Townsend looking to just shut down the question early on, preventing any more disruption. He'll come back in over the break for a dose of reconciliation (hopefully)

Jones will be forced to play an 8 at 8 this week. twice failing to keep the ball in the back of a dominant scrum really cost england yesterday. curry and underhill at 6 and 7 are to be feared.

without billy, mako or manu, England are going to need more variety, as they rarely broke the gainline.

so i think it could be a really open game (please dont rain), as both sides need width and guile to score.

was at last year's match...never thought, at half time, i would cheer so desperately an England score to draw the match at full time!!!!

Whilst the Russell saga adds a bit of additional sniping doubt towards Townsend the pressure on this game is really much more on England, especially following the manner of the defeat to France. Id say they have more uncertainty over selections too.

Its very late notice to be calling in a solution for the 8 issue. If Dombrant had been in the extended squad then his use in this game would be a lot easier than bringing him absolutely from the cold.

As I understand it though Mako was only rested from the last test and should be fully fit for this one. Tulagis absence isn't confirmed either, although for the long term its probably better he is rested ( I do wonder how much he has played through niggling injury as per Moody in the 2011 world cup and hidden this from the medics, he tried to play through and waved off treatment initially before being replaced), and in theory Devoto offers some level of carrying ability.

Scrum halves...well Ive broken recorded that one to death but dont expect a change. I do subscribe to some of Sams argument that the fact both struggled so much was partly down to England going back in contact and the breakdown. France did much the same as SA did to England in that regard. The good news for whichever starts is that Scotland are unlikely to have the ability to replicate that and England should get a bit more go forward.

Lineout was a bit of a mixed bag for England too. Maybe some of that down to Cowan Dickie being in and out of camp and distracted, but also it was an area France were set up to target with 5 jumpers. Again its hard for Scotland to replicate that to the same extent with the players they have available.

So in theory I do feel England should win. But Scotland never need much to get up for this fixture, and we saw they certainly had the wind in their sails against Ireland even if they did keep getting smashed on the rocks. If they can actually believe in themselves, play with that level of passion but a bit less panic then we know well form last year and the year before they are capable of an upset.

I was hugely impressed with Scotland and of course if they start taking some of their chances they will cause most sides problems. At home I expect them to be very difficult for England. Many an England side has arrived as favourites at Murrayfield and been sent home with their chariot sticking firmly out of their backside. I expect England to be 0 and 2 after this weekend.

Eddie is too stubborn and and the no.8 thing is a massive own goal. At least play Simmonds. I did not see the France match (luckily) but believe the scrum was ok albeit Sinckler was quiet around the park. Given the 6 day turn around for England I would fancy starting Williams with Cowan-dickie and Marler. Then bring George and Sinckler on as subs along with Mako. We have also known that England struggle to get over the gainline in the backs without Manu, but little seems to have been learnt. Fingers crossed for a big improvement across the board, but even that might not be enough.

Well I'd have expected that if Dombrandt was going to be called up, and Spencer, we'd have heard by now. Mistake in my opinion as curry isnt going to get up to speed with an extra week and youngs is urgghhh.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well I'd have expected that if Dombrandt was going to be called up, and Spencer, we'd have heard by now. Mistake in my opinion as curry isnt going to get up to speed with  an extra week and youngs is urgghhh.

Very much agree. If it were a fallow week there would be more time to get a player up to speed, but bringing in someone form completely outside, especially in a role like SH is going to cause as many problems as it would solve. Its now a case of making the best of whats there. Only a few days ago people were all over Curry, and whilst a little skeptical about a non specialist 8 whoever it was it was seen as the earth shattering disaster it currently is. Hes still the greatest thing since chinese takeaway, so maybe we just have to accept and fancy moves off the back of the scrum aren't going to happen and look to what the trio can bring as a positive for the time being.

England squad is apparently unchanged

https://twitter.com/FoyChris/status/1224380471636897793

This is the squad from rfu twitter.

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Alex Moon (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)
    
Backs
Elliot Daly (Saracens)
Ollie Devoto (Exeter Chiefs)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
     
Apprentice player
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped) 

Even from this and the disappointing we will have to put up with youngs again ano number 8 youd tempted to have hill and earl involved wouldn't you?

I'd go with Lawes back to lock, Curry to 6 and Earl to 8 - at least he's played there more than Curry has

England should have learnt their lesson by now, playing players out of position does not work well. Curry, Underhill, Dombrant/Earl in the back row.

England really need to win this week end, just to prove that last week end was just a bad day at the office. England played just like Scotland did against Ireland every time they got into France half they lost the ball. Simply put it was not good enough from England Even if it was the first game, claiming to be a bit rusty is just a poor excuse.

Thinking about the game this week end Eddie Jones, should really be thinking of dropping Ben Youngs and bringing Danny Care back in. what as happend to Ben Spencer?

Eddie should be starting to think about the next 4 years to the next RWC, and start to bring the new stars of tomorrow.

I don’t think EJ will change much with the hopes of the putting the France game down to a blip and getting their tournament back on track. A dominant win and the drop Ben Youngs/sort the back row chat loses a little credibility.

France beat England up in the same way South Africa did. We won’t do that, and for that reason I think we’re going to get pumped.

I’m going though, and the most important thing about this fixture is how many delicious pints of Guinness I’m going to drink.

France showed the blueprint on how to beat England.
1. At rucks, pile in numbers off their feet and seal off the ball so Underhill and Curry don't get a sight of the ball.
2. The outside centre needs to be on the offside line and beyond, don't give Joseph time or space.
3. Use the vague French ref to your advantage to create mayhem, score early and then just leather the ball into the English 22 and let them try and run it back, probably in the rain.
4. The moment one side of your scrum goes backwards, the prop on the other side needs to dive for the floor and the ref will wave play on.

Easy.

Recwatcher16 wrote:France showed the blueprint on how to beat England.
1. At rucks, pile in numbers off their feet and seal off the ball so Underhill and Curry don't get a sight of the ball.
2. The outside centre needs to be on the offside line and beyond, don't give Joseph time or space.
3. Use the vague French ref to your advantage to create mayhem, score early and then just leather the ball into the English 22 and let them try and run it back, probably in the rain.
4. The moment one side of your scrum goes backwards, the prop on the other side needs to dive for the floor and the ref will wave play on.

Easy.

Yep pretty much summed it up, not a game nigel will look back at with pride. Some shockers in there however he didn't make us mess up time and time again in the red zone. We could have scored 7 drop goals of we had our heads on straight. Agree with the scrum we should have got a few more penalties especially as their Tight head had his head up his bum for most of the match. But none of that matters as we failed to take charge and use it wisely. It's almost as if they were distracted by something, saracens cheating will rattle on for a while I think especially as they are the spine of the team. Scotland will be up for this and thought they played well in alot of the game sat and their scrum will be probably be better than France's. At least we don't have to face dupont anymore.

Sooooooooo.

Looks like England are coming up with no specialist 8 again.

Scotland absolutely need to start smashing the rucks to secure ball otherwise we'll see more of the same from the Ireland match.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Sooooooooo.

Looks like England are coming up with no specialist 8 again.

Scotland absolutely need to start smashing the rucks to secure ball otherwise we'll see more of the same from the Ireland match.

Oh I'd love to see us bring in one of the new back rows and make life hard for you, but strongly suspect it that the England team will be like the one vs France just with even less hard carrying options.

Mako is due to be back isn't he? He pretty much carries like a No 8

RDW wrote:Mako is due to be back isn't he? He pretty much carries like a No 8

Yes

We'd be better off playing him at 8. Both Marler and Genge went well last week so somebody will miss out.

https://www.itv.com/six-nations/articles/jones-to-persevere-with-curry-at-number-eight-for-england

Yep - slipping into the bad habit of picking a guy who is one of the best in the world out of position.

Not saying Daly is one of the best but we have had the same situation with him for ages. I expect him back at 15 at the weekend by the way.

RDW wrote:https://www.itv.com/six-nations/articles/jones-to-persevere-with-curry-at-number-eight-for-england

And Tuilagi confirmed as out, too. Great news for Scotland.

RDW wrote:https://www.itv.com/six-nations/articles/jones-to-persevere-with-curry-at-number-eight-for-england

Banters getting a bit spicy on here

Gooseberry wrote:

RDW wrote:https://www.itv.com/six-nations/articles/jones-to-persevere-with-curry-at-number-eight-for-england

Banters getting a bit spicy on here

I’m sure the dancing emoticon wasn’t intended as celebrating someone getting hurt because that would be a dick move.

Also Tuilagi is a monstrous ball carrier, and not having him in the 23 knocking down tacklers like skittles changes how the game might otherwise have gone.

RDW wrote:https://www.itv.com/six-nations/articles/jones-to-persevere-with-curry-at-number-eight-for-england

I genuinely despair.

Heres an idea Eddie. We've been waiting years for a real top top class 7 and we have one now, and he has excelled at 6, alongside Underhill.
Why not develop him into the best flanker in the world.

And develop an actual 8 such as Mercer, or Dombrandt or even Move Ted HIll to 8....etc.

Eejit wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

RDW wrote:https://www.itv.com/six-nations/articles/jones-to-persevere-with-curry-at-number-eight-for-england

Banters getting a bit spicy on here

I’m sure the dancing emoticon wasn’t intended as celebrating someone getting hurt because that would be a dick move.

Also Tuilagi is a monstrous ball carrier, and not having him in the 23 knocking down tacklers like skittles changes how the game might otherwise have gone.

?

The title and the article is about Curry continuing at number 8...