Eng V Ireland Sunday 23rd Feb 2020

First topic message reminder :


3pm at Twickers.
Ref: Jaco Peyper (South Africa), Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France), Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France), TMO: Marius Jonker (South Africa)

England:: Daly; May, Tuilagi, Farrell (capt), Joseph; Ford, Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Underhill, Curry.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Ewels, Earl, Heinz, Slade.




Ireland: Ireland: Larmour; Conway, Henshaw, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Herring, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, O'Mahony, van der Flier, Stander.

Replacements: Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Porter, Toner, Doris, Cooney, Byrne, Earls.

hugehandoff wrote:Daily Mail saying Manu back with Ford and Farrell. Lawes may return to counter Ireland lineout. Marler a slight injury doubt with Obano on standby for sub role.
Really hoping the Lawes thing is totally wrong.

Oh no! Not Lawes at 6, please not Lawes at 6! We were so much better with two flankers on the flanks against Scotland.

BamBam wrote:We do it just so we can rub in the fact we can actually put together 27 players without scrubbing through other countries cast off cupboard

???????

I thought we showed against New Zealand in the world cup that we're perfectly capable of running a line out with just two second rows.

Does the Daily Heil suggest hes simply returning to lock with itoje rather than at 6?

carpet baboon wrote:

BamBam wrote:We do it just so we can rub in the fact we can actually put together 27 players without scrubbing through other countries cast off cupboard

???????

Just a little joke at 9 brain cells expense

So why did the journalist want an apology again? Don't get it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Does the Daily Heil suggest hes simply returning to lock with itoje rather than at 6?

sadly not at 2nd row...at 6....fingers crossed that is wrong

POM has taken us apart a few times but I'm all for playing a flanker at 6. And tbf sending lawes back to the saints.

No 7&1/2 wrote:POM has taken us apart a few times but I'm all for playing a flanker at 6. And tbf sending lawes back to the saints.

Why would you not have Lawes in the 23?

Prefer kruis itoje to start and launchbury at the moment on the bench. Prefer the other options with the back row to him. Just the personal preference I have like meatier locks and just dont think hes ever excelled in any england back row combo. I appreciate he pressure scrum and fly halfs excellently and is great in the lineout but I prefer the overall contributions and combos more of the others.

7.5 is a big Launchbury fan, I agree with Earl on the bench and it's close between Lawes and Launchbury - the latter has had a few good games against Ireland in the past

Huge launchbury fan.

So against Ireland where the lineout and pressuring the half backs is so important you're going to drop the guy who offers that in place of someone who doesn't?

https://twitter.com/foychris/status/1230795374727770113?s=21

Could be an interesting selection

"As per @Nik_Simon88 update, sounds like Furbank ruled out so Daly to full-back and Joseph on wing, with Tuilagi at 13. Could be Cowan-Dickie at hooker and Lawes at 6 too."

So a fly in the centre, a centre on the wing and at full back, a second row at 6 and a flanker at 8?

Think we need to come up with our version of the Toonie Tombola for Eddie

Surely Thorley is a better wing than JJ

BamBam wrote:Surely Thorley is a better wing than JJ

I've seen that it might be Slade at full back with Daly staying on the wing but can't disagree that Thorley would be a better option. Either way going to put a lot of pressure on Jonny May for the expected aerial bombardment.

I think with kruis itoje curry ludlam we should have enough there. Also doesnt weaken the scrum and launchbury s all round game is now 2nd only to itoje. He s also the best a maul defence for me.

Shame for furbank. It just seems this is the tournament he needs to make a mark as theres a couple of guys coming back from injury in the summer which will probably be looked at. If they can acclimatise faster they'll steal the spot.

Soul Requiem wrote:

BamBam wrote:Surely Thorley is a better wing than JJ

I've seen that it might be Slade at full back with Daly staying on the wing but can't disagree that Thorley would be a better option. Either way going to put a lot of pressure on Jonny May for the expected aerial bombardment.

If that is the case at least we know we have one of the best in the business for the job.

BamBam wrote:Surely Thorley is a better wing than JJ

I appreciate that the 1st 6N since the World Cup shouldn't be all about building for France in 4 years time, but surely if you have a choice between a young winger or an older centre to play on the wing, you choose the option that will stand a chance to line up for the next World Cup?

It also makes you think what motivation is there for Thorley if he's training all week, just to see a spot given to another player out of position.

So I see Tuilagi is going to start. Ireland will need to keep him under wraps.

England starting XV
15 Elliot Daly (Saracens, 41 caps)
14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
13 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 41 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 81 caps) C
11 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 49 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 67 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 97 caps)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 69 caps)
2 Jamie George (Saracens, 47 caps)
3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 33 caps)
4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 36 caps)
5 George Kruis (Saracens, 43 caps)
6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 83 caps)
7 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
8 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 21 caps)

Finishers
16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 22 caps)
17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 16 caps)
18 Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 1 cap)
19 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 63 caps)
20 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
21 Ben Earl (Saracens, 1 cap)
22 Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 11 caps)
23 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps)

Advantage Ireland based on that line up.

5 chuffing locks in a 23 man squad. FFS!!!!!!!!

What is Eddie doing?

At least we've got plenty of options on the bench for replacements in the backs if it goes tits up...

Ewels must have pics of Eddie in the nuddy to get in after his performance against France.

bluestonevedder wrote:What is Eddie doing?

Most locks in a squad reward? Most players out of position in a starting XV reward?

I always want us to win, but I definitely don't want Eddie to feel vindicated and continue with this stupid selection if we do somehow beat the Irish

Joseph...on the wing? Seriously???

And Ewells...WTF is he doing in there!!!

LondonTiger wrote:5 chuffing locks in a 23 man squad. FFS!!!!!!!!

There's five centres as well. Why Ewels and Slade are on the bench is a mystery, no back three cover.

Yeah. That's not a good team.

The front row and the second row should function ok but beyond that I'm expecting a mess in attack.

Soul Requiem wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:5 chuffing locks in a 23 man squad. FFS!!!!!!!!

There's five centres as well. Why Ewels and Slade are on the bench is a mystery, no back three cover.

An injury on the wing will see Slade go to FB and Daly to wing - is my guess.

So...
5 locks in the squad...1 at blindside flanker
3 opensides...1 at 8
a fly half at 12
A 13 a wing
A 13 at full back.

But we all know May's stupid nose is a weakness.

LondonTiger wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:5 chuffing locks in a 23 man squad. FFS!!!!!!!!

There's five centres as well. Why Ewels and Slade are on the bench is a mystery, no back three cover.

An injury on the wing will see Slade go to FB and Daly to wing - is my guess.

There is that but you'd prefer an actual back three player on the bench instead of crow barring things around. Thorley should be in the 23 at the expense of Ewels who is offering nothing at all.

Can anyone recall a standout England performance when we've started three locks and had at least another one on the bench? I know we've had wins with that selection but I can't remember a time when I've thought "Hats off to Eddie, that's exactly what we needed"

Just looking on ESPN, Lawes appears to have started with the 6 shirt seven times under Jones, and we've lost four of those matches (France x2, Scotland, and Wales Cup warm-up). The three wins were Italy, Japan and Wales at Twickenham in 2018, and none of them were performances to write home about.

is Jospeh there because they have a concern over Manu's injury?

Rugby Fan wrote:Can anyone recall a standout England performance when we've started three locks and had at least another one on the bench? I know we've had wins with that selection but I can't remember a time when I've thought "Hats off to Eddie, that's exactly what we needed"

Just looking on ESPN, Lawes appears to have started with the 6 shirt seven times under Jones, and we've lost four of those matches (France x2, Scotland, and Wales Cup warm-up). The three wins were Italy, Japan and Wales at Twickenham in 2018, and none of them were performances to write home about.

Great news, thanks for that stat. Were any of those 4 losses in Twickenham?

Eddie is losing it.

I'm sorry but that is one hell of an awkward looking squad. Maybe I'm a sausage maybe I'm not but Eddie is testing England fans nerves.

Ireland by more than 10.

Did England not beat Wales in 2017 in Cardiff with a muddled back-row selection? Itoje, Clifford and Hughes if I remember rightly. Not sure who made up the second-row, but i think Launchbury got man of the match. I remember Jiffy saying he had been immense in the game during the commentary.

We have found a 6 & 7 that are potentially a world class combination when both fit and yet we continue to start one at 8?

MichaelT wrote:Did England not beat Wales in 2017 in Cardiff with a muddled back-row selection? Itoje, Clifford and Hughes if I remember rightly. Not sure who made up the second-row, but i think Launchbury got man of the match. I remember Jiffy saying he had been immense in the game during the commentary.

I'd argue that Itoje is a better flanker than Lawes whereas having Hughes there just makes it feel more balanced.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Can anyone recall a standout England performance when we've started three locks and had at least another one on the bench? I know we've had wins with that selection but I can't remember a time when I've thought "Hats off to Eddie, that's exactly what we needed"

Just looking on ESPN, Lawes appears to have started with the 6 shirt seven times under Jones, and we've lost four of those matches (France x2, Scotland, and Wales Cup warm-up). The three wins were Italy, Japan and Wales at Twickenham in 2018, and none of them were performances to write home about.

Great news, thanks for that stat. Were any of those 4 losses in Twickenham?

No, only two of the matches (Japan & Wales) were at Twickenham.

MichaelT wrote:Did England not beat Wales in 2017 in Cardiff with a muddled back-row selection? Itoje, Clifford and Hughes if I remember rightly. Not sure who made up the second-row, but i think Launchbury got man of the match. I remember Jiffy saying he had been immense in the game during the commentary.

Yeah, but it's Wales

Hmm. Joseph OK as a makeshift winger but how is he fielding kicks or on positioning? He could be in for a tough afternoon.

Agree - wouldn't have Lawes there, but the question was about 3 second-rows and a good performance. Thought England would struggle this week anyway, but now its definitely advantage Ireland as you said earlier.

Also the Welsh back-row at the time was better than the back-row we will face on Sunday. Warburton, Tipuric and Moriarty with Faletau on the bench was not to be sneezed at.

MichaelT wrote:Did England not beat Wales in 2017 in Cardiff with a muddled back-row selection? Itoje, Clifford and Hughes if I remember rightly. Not sure who made up the second-row, but i think Launchbury got man of the match. I remember Jiffy saying he had been immense in the game during the commentary.

That's right, although on that occasion, there was no fourth of fifth lock on the bench. Haskell and Tom Wood were there instead. However, Itoje, Launchbury & Lawes did play the whole game. Haskell came on for Clifford, while Wood replaced Hughes with only three minutes left. The match was won by Daly scoring from the kick by Davies which didn't find touch. It was an exciting game but not sure England ever got the upper hand over that Welsh pack.