Eng V Ireland Sunday 23rd Feb 2020

First topic message reminder :


3pm at Twickers.
Ref: Jaco Peyper (South Africa), Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France), Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France), TMO: Marius Jonker (South Africa)

England:: Daly; May, Tuilagi, Farrell (capt), Joseph; Ford, Youngs; Marler, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Underhill, Curry.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Launchbury, Ewels, Earl, Heinz, Slade.




Ireland: Ireland: Larmour; Conway, Henshaw, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Herring, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, O'Mahony, van der Flier, Stander.

Replacements: Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Porter, Toner, Doris, Cooney, Byrne, Earls.

Cyril wrote:On that point about Aki, I thought he was very good. Ireland’s best player in a poor team performance. Always looking for work and tackled well.

Yep. He and Stander are punching and hitting (metaphorically speaking mostly ) as hard as they can in a side that is still far below the intensity levels required to compete at this level. Mucho work to do for Farrell over the next few years but nobody can fault Aki for trying to infuse some go forward passion in a side badly needing it.

SecretFly wrote:

Cyril wrote:On that point about Aki, I thought he was very good. Ireland’s best player in a poor team performance. Always looking for work and tackled well.

Yep.  He and Stander are punching and hitting (metaphorically speaking mostly   ) as hard as they can in a side that is still far below the intensity levels required to compete at this level.  Mucho work to do for Farrell over the next few years but nobody can fault Aki for trying to infuse some go forward passion in a side badly needing it.

England’s rush defense was on songbtonight, Irish struggled against it.

majesticimperialman wrote:What has happened to Mc Clusky he is a big lump why is he not in the team.?

Also are England fans truly happy with Daily at full back?

If Daly plays like that every week I'd be happy with him at full back. Questionable that Ireland really tested him though.

stuart mccloskey looked to have real potential on his debut against us a few years back. Also have no idea why hes not used, but don't think he would have added much more than Aki who had a decent game.

Old Man wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Cyril wrote:On that point about Aki, I thought he was very good. Ireland’s best player in a poor team performance. Always looking for work and tackled well.

Yep.  He and Stander are punching and hitting (metaphorically speaking mostly   ) as hard as they can in a side that is still far below the intensity levels required to compete at this level.  Mucho work to do for Farrell over the next few years but nobody can fault Aki for trying to infuse some go forward passion in a side badly needing it.

England’s rush defense was on songbtonight, Irish struggled against it.

They're still struggling far too much though.  Other sides can be under the kosh from this England side but still manage to look less spooked and less impotent.  The have just got our number in recent times and ain't letting go.  
We need to find a way to compete again with them.  We just can't let this losing streak fester into a decade long thing or God forbid, develop into our new 'New Zealand' side of the century. And if we do find a way, the bonus is we'll be in a decent position to challenge other top sides too.

Any news on Billy v? his he going to play any part in the 6ns or not?

Can England really keep playing Tom Curry at 8 in his place? Surely we should play an 8, at 8 and a flanker on the Flank?

Congratulations to England, far more up for the game and deserved to win.

Sexton showed why he is captain though - despite his jittery outing he's still the best option available, so is pretty much guaranteed his place until Farrell can start to trust Byrne.
The same cannot be said about Murray, he simply hasn't been the player he was before the last Lions tour where he picked up the hand injury. His service has been glacial, but it is his USP kicking that has been really off. His box kicks have been way too deep or way too vertical, and his relieving line kicks have been too often, way too short. Unlike Sexton, Farrell does have a replacement in Cooney, but Andy (as for Byrne) mustn't really like what he sees, and yet he must like him more than McGrath, Marmion and Blade?
Another question from the game is why Devin Toner? Nice guy that Dev is, Schmidt wasn't wrong to move on. He simply doesn't have the physicality or speed to play the kind of 'in your face' defence that Ireland favour, or the power to take more than one defender to stop him in possession.

Peyper (as he usually does) ignored the offside line for most of the time outside the red zones, which meant the game had both teams falling back in possession until an error or penalty or territorial kick changed the ball direction. Ireland didn't have the carrying power to make up for Sexton and Murray leaving their kicking boots at home. Another performance like that and never mind France beating Ireland in Paris - Italy could win in Dublin.

Cyril wrote:On that point about Aki, I thought he was very good. Ireland’s best player in a poor team performance. Always looking for work and tackled well.

Can't say I noticed him at all. Whereas Manu made metres and gave his creative players an easy out Aki just didn't appear on Sexton's shoulder when the pressure came on. Neither was he there offering to take some of the creative responsibility off of Sexton's shoulders. Ireland have bags of talent in their back three but they never got to fire a shot. Sexton never put the right kicks in and the Irish midfield never did enough to stop the English defence drifting.

Thought that game was going to be a lot closer but the England forwards laid the platform at set piece and gain line and Ford/Farrell did the rest.

The english back row outplayed their counterparts at the breakdown and the front five were very mobile and aggressive and there wre a few cheap shots flying around too. I have never quite understood the rave reviews about James Ryan, who has a very high work rate and is a bright lad, but that's about it. Stick him in the Premiership and he would look average.
The Irish centres were not good enough for a passing game and so their dangerous back three never got a sniff of the ball. The Irish half backs have lost their mojo and were behind a retreating pack but with their experience can they change it up? Not sure.

majesticimperialman wrote:Any news on Billy v? his he going to play any part in the 6ns or not?

Can England really keep playing Tom Curry at 8 in his place? Surely we should play an 8, at 8 and a flanker on the Flank?

I suspect Eddie can see it isn't working, which is partly why he moved to 6 when Lawes came off. He hasn't been a disaster at 8 but it is obvious he is just playing as a 6 or 7 still. On top of that sale are not going to play him there, and therefore not likely to ever really improve to international standard.

Sometimes I think Eddie gets confused at the depth of talent in some positions and tries to get as many of them on the field as possible.

Lawes had his best game at 6 today I have seen, but I would always want Underhill or Curry as they will always look for the turnover if it is on and still do the work Lawes did today.

lostinwales wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:What has happened to Mc Clusky he is a big lump why is he not in the team.?

Also are England fans truly happy with Daily at full back?

If Daly plays like that every week I'd be happy with him at full back. Questionable that Ireland really tested him though.

He has gotten much better under the high ball, however his lastv ditch defence I suspect is still not great, though as you say he wasn't tested in that regard today. His contribution to the attack however from 15 is very obvious, so if his defence gets to being "ok" then I would be happy for him to stay there.

There is no way that either Underhhill or Curry could do the carrying that Lawes did today. Lawes was playing the BV role, doing the hard carries, they lack the bulk.

Well unfortunately I thought we might be on the end of a thumping but that was dreadful from Ireland.

Across the board England were superior, the only positive for Ireland is it didn't manifest on the scoreboard, where we were flattered in the end by the late scores and England incredibly didn't manage the bonus point.

It seem like we have gone backwards from last year, tactically we were all over the place and physically bullied again.

Scotland should have beaten us and the warning signs were there that this was coming, it's all very well wanting to offload more but the pack have to go forward and we need to win our ruck ball.

Too many times we under resourced the ruck, one occasion we had only Ross Byrne in and England turned us over, on another Murray has to go in and again we get turned over because we have no one alert to play scrum half.

In defense we conceded twice from kicks through as we had no one covering in behind. England did the same thing last season at the Aviva but yet we didn't seem to prepare for it.'

Henshaw should have saw yellow for taking out May so we got lucky on that as well.

I struggle to see how we move forward, Doris maybe to come in at 8, Cooney at 9 might give us a bit of energy. James Lowe can't qualify soon enough because Stockdale is all over the place in defense. Henderson will give us a bit more physicality when he returns.

A good win against Italy will at least keep us in the title race until the last weekend but we could be in for a painful trip to Paris based on that performance.

After watching Bath, Quins and Exeter as well as England, how is one of the following 3 not involved with England.

Mercer, Simmonds or Dombrandt are all in good form.

TightHEAD wrote:After watching Bath, Quins and Exeter as well as England, how is one of the following 3 not involved with England.

They cant do both at the same time.

I predicted a heavy thumping at least on the scoreboard but it didn't turn out as bad as I'd feared. Ireland looked completely rudderless and clueless in attack and toothless in defence. I don't get the plaudits that Aki is getting, I just don't see what he brings apart from a brave effort. He stops dead and takes the ball into contact much too often whatever defence he's up against. Too many times our momentum stops with him. Stockdale is having a bit of a nightmare and shouldn't be starting. He really needs to up his game and a time on the bench might just do that once James Lowe qualifies. Sexton as captain doesn't work for me either, he's got enough to worry about pulling the strings and he's been struggling enough without the extra responsibility. There's a lot wrong with the Irish setup but nothing that can't be fixed with some fresh faces replacing the incumbents.
For England I was shocked that Itoje didn't get MOTM. What a massive player he is in every respect and so intelligent (and annoying) in everything he does. I don't think there's many better on the planet at the moment. For all the BS that Eddie Jones comes out vindicating his selections, if he'd had someone like Dombrandt at 8 and let Curry return to his favoured position etc, Ireland would have been looking at a cricket score. As it was if it hadn't been for the unpredictable shape of a rugby ball the game might have been an awful lot tighter.
Onwards and upwards for Ireland, time to give Cooney a start for the Italy game, perhaps McCloskey too, I always had dreams of a McCloskey/Farrell midfield but I doubt that would happen.

rodders wrote:Well unfortunately I thought we might be on the end of a thumping but that was dreadful from Ireland.

Across the board England were superior, the only positive for Ireland is it didn't manifest on the scoreboard, where we were flattered in the end by the late scores and England incredibly didn't manage the bonus point.

It seem like we have gone backwards from last year, tactically we were all over the place and physically bullied again.

Scotland should have beaten us and the warning signs were there that this was coming, it's all very well wanting to offload more but the pack have to go forward and we need to win our ruck ball.

Too many times we under resourced the ruck, one occasion we had only Ross Byrne in and England turned us over, on another Murray has to go in and again we get turned over because we have no one alert to play scrum half.  

In defense we conceded twice from kicks through as we had no one covering in behind. England did the same thing last season at the Aviva but yet we didn't seem to prepare for it.'  

Henshaw should have saw yellow for taking out May so we got lucky on that as well.

I struggle to see how we move forward, Doris maybe to come in at 8, Cooney at 9 might give us a bit of energy. James Lowe can't qualify soon enough because Stockdale is all over the place in defense. Henderson will give us a bit more physicality when he returns.

A good win against Italy will at least keep us in the title race until the last weekend but we could be in for a painful trip to Paris based on that performance.

Yeah it was a poor performance but it is mainly because England have us figured out and their tactics work perfectly against us every time. Im sure we will have good days under Farrell but probably not as many as under Schmidt.

England have great players and are a fine side but dont think they were amazing either, they didnt have to do a whole lot to beat us though aside from a well worked game plan and some solid performances from key guys.

Sexton and Murray were poor IMO. I would have brought on Doris, Cooney and Byrne at half time and made Stander or Ryan captain.

rodders wrote:

It seem like we have gone backwards from last year, tactically we were all over the place and physically bullied again.

The body language on the field was quite simply atrocious and in my book unforgivable.  England were good - very good even - but not spectacular.  We had a bit of a door into that game had the team as a collective the will to try going through it.  There were a few moments during the game where a turning of the tides might have been possible but the body language of Irish players - not up for it.  Standing around, hands on hips, feeling sorry for themselves, nobody that I saw at least rallying the troops to fight.  

Time for players to take responsibility for the level they want to perform at, stop looking to coaches for their excuses about the kind of stuff you refer to - and at the very least try to match the tone and intent of the opposition.  
In all these games that we are on the wrong end of, the tone of the opposition is 'we're going to humiliate you boys'.  And we as a team don't seem to have that love for the fight anymore, the flaming desire to prove them wrong.  Nope, we just open our officious 'strategy notebooks' to try find the chapter on how to play a side 'that projects a mood of wanting to tear one's head off and sh........................... '.

Gooseberry wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:After watching Bath, Quins and Exeter as well as England, how is one of the following 3 not involved with England.

They cant do both at the same time.

Wow new level of wit on show here.

TightHEAD wrote:After watching Bath, Quins and Exeter as well as England, how is one of the following 3 not involved with England.

Mercer, Simmonds or Dombrandt are all in good form.

Doubt you'll see them this 6n now.

Expect to see a couple of those in the SUmmer. I dont think that Simmonds will be one of the two.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Yeah it was a poor performance but it is mainly because England have us figured out and their tactics work perfectly against us every time. Im sure we will have good days under Farrell but probably not as many as under Schmidt.

England have great players and are a fine side but dont think they were amazing either, they didnt have to do a whole lot to beat us though aside from a well worked game plan and some solid performances from key guys.

Sexton and Murray were poor IMO. I would have brought on Doris, Cooney and Byrne at half time and made Stander or Ryan captain.

The thing is we had plenty of time from the last meeting to come up with some solutions but it was almost a repeat of the 2 games last year.

We seem to just have adopted and attitude and mindset with this game that England are too powerful and have our number, therefore we just roll over.

It looked for long periods like our players wanted to be on the plane home. Stander and Ryan showed a bit of fight, literally at times but aside from that we just seemed to give up and allowed ourselves to be bullied.

Like with respect to England, they were smashed by South Africa in the RWC final, beaten well by France in Paris and by Wales last season. Scotland have really troubled them in their last couple of games as well.

So they are beatable, it seems like the Irish players and media seem to be buying into this false narrative that they are unplayable.

I mean I saw a quote from Bod how we come unstuck against bigger sides like SA and France, despite having really good records against both in recent years.

Schmidt is a dreadful coach. Why are Irish fans not demanding his head on a platter. I’d want an apple in his mouth. I’d probably go with a Granny Smith as it’s green, symbolising Irishness. But Schmidt is such a control freak he’d probably demand a red one. A red apple is an abomination and just out to mock Munster fans. Shameful behaviour from a shameful fruit.

On another note a man from Bandon was once official apple supplier to the court of Gustavus Adolphus.

Oh they are definitely beatable just not the way we play them

It's almost funny.  But rugby seems to be the hour hand of a clock.  It goes around all the way to 12, then keeps going but technically starts all over again.

Just as Ireland feel the need to expand their boring, heavy duty, forward based defensive game, and add zip, offload and strike running to their ammo belt, the rest of the world seems to be at a different number on the clock face and perhaps thinking of closing things up and becoming more doggedly pragmatic in the Schmidt (SA) mould.  There was a time when virtually all Ireland had were rugged forwards.... now England beats us easily with a deck of them.

It is funny.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:There is no way that either Underhhill or Curry could do the carrying that Lawes did today. Lawes was playing the BV role, doing the hard carries, they lack the bulk.

Fair enough but he can do that from the 2nd row. I still dont really want him near the 6 shirt considering we have better options there which will cause real problems at the breakdown in defence and protect the ball when we are in possession. Without the ball carriers England needed him yesterday, I really hope that Eddie does not see this as the norm now.

Basically please let us have a real no.8 in the squad.

Don't understand the criticism of Stockdale - he isn't the first to be done by the bounce of the ball and wasn't even the first in the match. Larmour's positioning was also off for the first try, neither were Conway nor Earls effective. That wasn't surprising as Jones had Curry and Underhill with the pace close to the breakdown to snaffle the ball and he had Joseph playing as a third centre to stop any wide ball if it got that far. Ireland won the second half 12-7 because Farrell changed his setup by getting Stockdale/Conway to frequently go hunting in midfield and slower guys like POM were covering wide.

Obviously Irelands problem is that England always raise their game for them 

The Great Aukster wrote:Don't understand the criticism of Stockdale - he isn't the first to be done by the bounce of the ball and wasn't even the first in the match. Larmour's positioning was also off for the first try, neither were Conway nor Earls effective. That wasn't surprising as Jones had Curry and Underhill with the pace close to the breakdown to snaffle the ball and he had Joseph playing as a third centre to stop any wide ball if it got that far. Ireland won the second half 12-7 because Farrell changed his setup by getting Stockdale/Conway to frequently go hunting in midfield and slower guys like POM were covering wide.

He should have either caught the ball before it bounced or slapped it down as it hit the ground. Golden rule in rugby, dont let the ball bounce if you can help it and I think he could have. It was pretty weak from him I thought.

The Great Aukster wrote:Don't understand the criticism of Stockdale - he isn't the first to be done by the bounce of the ball and wasn't even the first in the match. Larmour's positioning was also off for the first try, neither were Conway nor Earls effective. That wasn't surprising as Jones had Curry and Underhill with the pace close to the breakdown to snaffle the ball and he had Joseph playing as a third centre to stop any wide ball if it got that far. Ireland won the second half 12-7 because Farrell changed his setup by getting Stockdale/Conway to frequently go hunting in midfield and slower guys like POM were covering wide.

... he also got rid of Murray, the main - though not only - weakness in the first half.  The other players simply have no faith in his ability to charge them up (quite an important element of a scrumhalf's role).  They don't.  Body language says they don't have faith in him to pump them up anymore.  But of course they'll always be diplomatic in public and rubbish such a notion.

Farrell said he'd hold his hand up and admit he didn't have things right for that first half.  Well, if he's being honest, let's see the changes.  Some will suggest one of them should be Cooney starting for Italy.  Maybe so, but my take on it is that the 'lesser' games are now more suited to Murray, Sexton and other underperformers.  These are the games they should be playing in to get into a right rhythm with less pressure.
Bigger games (France) should now be given to players in better form and players earmarked for the future.

Collapse2005 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Don't understand the criticism of Stockdale - he isn't the first to be done by the bounce of the ball and wasn't even the first in the match. Larmour's positioning was also off for the first try, neither were Conway nor Earls effective. That wasn't surprising as Jones had Curry and Underhill with the pace close to the breakdown to snaffle the ball and he had Joseph playing as a third centre to stop any wide ball if it got that far. Ireland won the second half 12-7 because Farrell changed his setup by getting Stockdale/Conway to frequently go hunting in midfield and slower guys like POM were covering wide.

He should have either caught the ball before it bounced or slapped it down as it hit the ground. Golden rule in rugby, dont let the ball bounce if you can help it and I think he could have. It was pretty weak from him I thought.

Yeah I thought he was too casual and thought he had more time, I get what he was doing but he should have made sure it went dead. Sexton also did poorly, sure it is a difficult bounce but he should have gathered - again another case of thinking he has more time.

I agree with Aukster though that Larmour should have had both covered, everyone is high in the defensive line and no one is covering the kick.

It would be meant and drink to Rob Kearney, god bless him....

rodders wrote:
It would be meant and drink to Rob Kearney, god bless him....

God bless him indeed. He'd have taken care of biz there for sure, and sure the scoreline at the end would only probably have been 62 - 3.

I can’t wait until Schmidt is sacked as all our problems will be fixed. We will play heads up rugby, a raft of new players will come in, we will play with tempo and attacking aggression, and we will be world beaters again, just like under Declan Kidney.

On another note, there’s a man from Carrick-on-Suir who bred the first dog in space. He had to get the specimen himself but he’s well known for having cold hands. He showed more attention to bouncing balls than the Irish back three on Sunday.

It was obvious to anyone who read Schmidt's book that he knows Farrell was going to mess up all his good work. It's just like when Moyes came in to replace Fergie at United.

He's got them playing tag rugby with the U-20s and hanging out with Bono, what sort of way is that to prepare for a 6N crunch game? I'd say Owen was in on it too.

rodders wrote:It was obvious to anyone who read Schmidt's book that he knows Farrell was going to mess up all his good work. It's just like when Moyes came in to replace Fergie at United.  

He's got them playing tag rugby with the U-20s and hanging out with Bono, what sort of way is that to prepare for a 6N crunch game?  I'd say Owen was in on it too.

I can feel the recovery starting already.  We're going to be world beaters again!  Can't keep us down.  We'll have an auld laugh at ourselves for now, have a smoke and a kebab and then go kill some unsuspecting team with a game 'nobody could'a played against' !
Will Andy be still coach though? Hmmmm

I haven’t read his book. I’ve got the audiobook read to me by Ger Earls. The disgust in his voice is palpable throughout. The book wasn’t even printed on recycled paper. Greta Thunberg told me that in my Sack Schmidt WhatsApp group which also has 3 people from Love Island. It also has 3 people from Dursley Island who are much more interesting.

Peter Stringer wrote:The book wasn’t even printed on recycled paper.

Oh I don't know about that. Many fine armchair critics assured us they've already turned those pages back to toilet paper.
So Greta should be well pleased. I hear the latest jet engine will be able to run on recycled paper and a handful of safety matches.

Peter Stringer wrote:I can’t wait until Schmidt is sacked as all our problems will be fixed. We will play heads up rugby, a raft of new players will come in, we will play with tempo and attacking aggression, and we will be world beaters again, just like under Declan Kidney.

On another note, there’s a man from Carrick-on-Suir who bred the first dog in space. He had to get the specimen himself but he’s well known for having cold hands. He showed more attention to bouncing balls than the Irish back three on Sunday.

Haha, who is this punter.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Peter Stringer wrote:I can’t wait until Schmidt is sacked as all our problems will be fixed. We will play heads up rugby, a raft of new players will come in, we will play with tempo and attacking aggression, and we will be world beaters again, just like under Declan Kidney.

On another note, there’s a man from Carrick-on-Suir who bred the first dog in space. He had to get the specimen himself but he’s well known for having cold hands. He showed more attention to bouncing balls than the Irish back three on Sunday.

Haha, who is this punter.

Not a clue but they're more like what this forum needs

Rumours are since Owen has finally learned to wrap his arms, he simply can't stop!






(shameless steal from Rugby Onslaught)

Pete330v2 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Peter Stringer wrote:I can’t wait until Schmidt is sacked as all our problems will be fixed. We will play heads up rugby, a raft of new players will come in, we will play with tempo and attacking aggression, and we will be world beaters again, just like under Declan Kidney.

On another note, there’s a man from Carrick-on-Suir who bred the first dog in space. He had to get the specimen himself but he’s well known for having cold hands. He showed more attention to bouncing balls than the Irish back three on Sunday.

Haha, who is this punter.

Not a clue but they're more like what this forum needs

DOD's alter ego or Gibbo.

It has the classic poetic hallmark of Gibbo.

Got to honest. I thought Sexton and Murray amongst others have probably shown that they are now one or two seasons past their sell by date at this level.
England didn’t have to be anything more than professional to ease past Ireland which must be a bitter pill to swallow for Irish fans .
England were clearly the more hungry team and Ireland couldn’t match that
The Irish half backs control was woeful and consistently placed their team under pressure with loose kicks and poor passing.
Cooney has to start and They have to blood a new ten ASAP.
Farrell does not seem to have fixed the issues that had become apparent at the end of Schmidt’s reign and he wil not get a huge amount of time to do so with a fan base used to success as the Irish are now.
So far the whole tournament has been pretty poor quality barring a few moments of stardust from the French. The World Cup really has seemed to have had a negative effect on all the teams .

Heuer27 wrote:Got to honest. I thought Sexton and Murray amongst others have probably shown that they are now one or two seasons past their sell by date at this level.
England didn’t have to be anything more than professional to ease past Ireland which must be a bitter pill to swallow for Irish fans .
England were clearly the more hungry team and Ireland couldn’t match that
The Irish half backs control was woeful and consistently placed  their team under pressure with loose kicks and poor passing.
Cooney has to start and They have to blood a new ten ASAP.
Farrell does not seem to have fixed the issues that had become apparent at the end of Schmidt’s reign and he wil not get a huge amount of time to do so with a fan base used to success as the Irish are now.
So far the whole tournament has been pretty poor quality barring a few moments of stardust from the French. The World Cup really has seemed to have had a negative effect on all the teams .

pretty darn good summation.

Pictures going about today showing Ryan clearing out Curry with a "shoulder to the head" in the 4th minute. I am not entirely sure the shoulder hits his head, but is is pretty close and a certain red if it had, 1, been seen and 2 actually to the head.



A very stupid thing to do, especially so early in the game, it would have n=been a cricket score if Ireland were down to 14 that early.

I can't get the picture to load properly, but the link is there to follow.

Red card all day long.

Right so.... we'll add that to the list of things unwinding in Farrell's Ireland;

Discipline.

I seem to remember a few cheap shots from both teams yesterday. The ref and assistants just seemed to ignore no arm clean outs at the ruck from both sides. Both Farrell and Stander should probably have warmed a naughty chair for their spat . Especially after both captains had already been given the waggy finger from the ref as I remember it.

Certainly the tmo had a day to forget.

Murray and Sexton aren’t past it, yet. They’d probably be more effective coming off the bench though. Murray was too slow in the first half, and the Irish tactics don’t work against England as shown on 3 occasions which is why Sexton also struggled. Faz senior is probably another stubborn coach who won’t change tactics.

We'll give him a while then but public opinion won't allow him to be too stubborn for too long if it's not having an impact on success rates.

If he won't change tactics (negative ones) we'll have to change him.

Heuer27 wrote:I seem to remember a few cheap shots from both teams yesterday. The ref and assistants just seemed to ignore no arm clean outs at the ruck from both sides. Both Farrell and Stander should probably have warmed a naughty chair for their spat . Especially after both captains had already been given the waggy finger from the ref as I remember it.

Each to their own. I believe all's fair that the ref doesn't catch apart from actions whose primary purpose is to cause injury.

The Irish clearouts were too much for my liking, but penalties and some control from the ref would be preferable to cards.

England’s line speed on defence was a sight to behold, it caused Murray and Sexton to play on the back foot and they never really looked like they handled it at all, not sure they are past it, but hell, they didn’t look good.

Stander seems a bit too big now, maybe lose a few pounds, but he was good in a pack that looked like they came off second best.

Was surprised that Sexton never exploited the space behind the rush defence.

England for all their running still play direct rugby, admittedly at high speed and intensity, but not a lot of flair.

Unless teams handle their physicality (like SA did) they will be hard to beat.