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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by super_realist Thu 23 Apr 2020, 10:48 am

First topic message reminder :

Just wondering what ailment you have which does not have a proven cure from modern medicine but for which Chinese "medicine" does.
Mac is the secretive one, not me.

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:01 am

For example do the deaths per capita not concern you a bit?

It feels like we all know the caveats but can still give an honest answer about how we currently feel.
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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:06 am

McLaren wrote:But some of your responses seem to imply I won't accept the what studies in the future say about the UKGs response because I would currently put my money (maybe about 50p) on future analysis not looking good for them.

But I refuse to believe you have not began to form a gut reaction to how things have played out. If you were to share this I wouldn't hold you to it and in fact would be keen to hear when and why your thoughts on the matter change.

Mac, I don't think there's anyone in the world who hasn't changed their views on this whole thing, and virtually every country has approached it differently, employed different tactics, different timeliness and changed direction.

By its very nature it is dynamic and things are going to change right throughout the whole thing. Every country will be able to point to mistakes they have made, but also to things they have done well, even if Beninho will never bring himself to say it.

As for who will be the first one out, why would there be one? Hancock has done a pretty good job in my opinion. Certainly better than a lot of people I could think of if put in the same place.
Patel has clearly been the weakest, which is concerning given her role.

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:08 am

McLaren wrote:For example do the deaths per capita not concern you a bit?

It feels like we all know the caveats but can still give an honest answer about how we currently feel.

The reasons for deaths per capita is a combination of a huge number of factors. That cannot be ignored.

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:09 am

McLaren wrote:But some of your responses seem to imply I won't accept the what studies in the future say about the UKGs response because I would currently put my money (maybe about 50p) on future analysis not looking good for them.

But I refuse to believe you have not began to form a gut reaction to how things have played out. If you were to share this I wouldn't hold you to it and in fact would be keen to hear when and why your thoughts on the matter change.
Possibly so, which is wrong of me. My feeling on your current comments is that they're based, IMO, on your political leanings. Let's see where we are in the Autumn.

The problem is, I think there's nuance to this that you're too quick to ignore/misinterpret. Yes, when the inevitable inquiry happens, there'll be things that could have happened faster, better etc. I have no doubt of that. As things stand though, I don't see very much that suggests UKG haven't done a reasonable job so far. Too much else is 20:20 hindsight and I won't get into that - one of my roles at work is as a Biological Safety Officer for quite a large number of people and I have to sit on Safety Committees at varying levels. It's very easy to see what should have been done, or done better, w/ hindsight. There's also so much we don't know about the virus itself, yet. For example, see:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20060160v2

Now, having read that, jump up and down again about how mortality rates in differing countries is all down to the fault of the relevant Government.
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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:10 am

McLaren wrote:For example do the deaths per capita not concern you a bit?

It feels like we all know the caveats but can still give an honest answer about how we currently feel.
You're not giving due credence to all potential variables in that figure.
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Post by beninho Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:11 am

I have no real issues with Hancock, but I think that he is in the prime position to be made some sort of scapegoat. Someone will have to foot some sort of blame, even if they are not to blame.

Patel is awful, but at least shoplifting has hone down. But, she can't take any responsibility.

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:11 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:For example do the deaths per capita not concern you a bit?

It feels like we all know the caveats but can still give an honest answer about how we currently feel.
You're not giving due credence to all potential variables in that figure.

Does that surprise you Navy?

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:11 am

It's an impossible debate to have at the moment based on their being so many unknowns. Living in the UK we have an idea of what the overall numbers are but outside of that statistics for Spain and Italy are reasonably easy to obtain. Germany for instance is a complete unknown, on the face of things they're doing pretty bloody well but overall death rates for the country simply aren't there to compare with elsewhere, the same is true of a lot of countries.

Making judgements based on incomplete data seems a bit silly to me and i'll wait until I solidify any opinion.

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:20 am

Navy

As I said we all know the caveats. But that doesn't change the fact having a huge deaths per million is currently worrying.

Maybe the UK has a more virulent strain, who knows, but if it does then surely that just adds to the concern?
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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 11:26 am

McLaren wrote:Navy

As I said we all know the caveats. But that doesn't change the fact having a huge deaths per million is currently worrying.

Maybe the UK has a more virulent strain, who knows, but if it does then surely that just adds to the concern?


Do you find it surprising we have high death rates? I don't in the slightest for plenty very obvious reasons.

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 12:25 pm

On the question of Chinese deaths I have a question.

I'm not for a moment suggesting that the Chinese figures are accurate, but there are enough foreign workers there to report if the low claims of death were wildly exaggerated. Odd that I haven't seen any foreigners based in China giving any updates.

Something fishy?



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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 27 Apr 2020, 12:35 pm

super_realist wrote:On the question of Chinese deaths I have a question.

I'm not for a moment suggesting that the Chinese figures are accurate, but there are enough foreign workers there to report if the low claims of death were wildly exaggerated. Odd that I haven't seen any foreigners based in China giving any updates.

Something fishy?



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52392762

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 12:41 pm

I think the Chinese government did as well as any government and it is too early to make judgements on their performance.
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Post by I'm never wrong Mon 27 Apr 2020, 12:53 pm

McLaren wrote:I think the Chinese government did as well as any government and it is too early to make judgements on their performance.

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 12:55 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:
McLaren wrote:I think the Chinese government did as well as any government and it is too early to make judgements on their performance.

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

Mac's attempt at sarcasm

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 27 Apr 2020, 12:59 pm

McLaren wrote:I think the Chinese government did as well as any government and it is too early to make judgements on their performance.


Why? Because they royally effed up the entire world??
I agree as it happens Mac - they should start calling in some the $T's that MAGA owes them to restart their economy.

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Post by JAS Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:04 pm

I think the main reason for our high death rate relative to many other countries (regardless of demographics ) was how far into the curve we imposed our kind of wishy washy lockdown. A couple of weeks earlier would have made a HUGE difference. The other big error was not jumping on contact tracing of those coming back from suspect areas and sticking with it. Also once we locked down we should have been REALLY locked down, there was WAY too much vagueness about what constituted essential work. I know...all easier to see with hindsight and I accept that all of the above might not have been quite as obvious in Feb/Mar nor was the true destructive profile of the virus. Early Feb many were still saying “och it’s only the flu”


To be fair we HAVE got a lot right, the way we increased our intensive care capability at short notice has been superb (unfortunate, a lack of PPE or PPE distribution problems have taken a bit of a shine off.

The other big thing that WAS good was the announced financial package (again not so good has been the way the banks haven’t really picked up on the “we’re all in this together theme”)


Last edited by JAS on Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:08 pm

WHO have a lot to answer for in regards to many countries initially slow response.

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Post by dynamark Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:18 pm

The Germans may have a different reporting system.Im no doc but if you putting something on death cert of someone who had all manner of health issues assume you have to put Covid if its there as the thing that tipped them over.I hope advisors are looking closely at the death rate from other factors including not getting treatments and not calling 999.
The Chinese along with some other cultures need to be told what is acceptable by WHO in terms of food and hygiene.
Still amazed by folk thinking we will be back to normal in a few weeks.Just been to Tesco and lady in front is addling around the store looking at everything deciding what to put in her basket with a queue behind her then when I asked could she stand aside while I come by I got the death stare.Decide what you want before you go in!

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:22 pm

WHO have already told China they are fine with wet markets reopening providing "safety standards" are in place. As if tjst is going to matter.

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:23 pm

dynamark wrote:The Germans may have a different reporting system.Im no doc but if you putting something on death cert of someone who had all manner of health issues assume you have to put Covid if its there as the thing that tipped them over.I hope advisors are looking closely at the death rate from other factors including not getting treatments and not calling 999.
The Chinese along with some other cultures need to be told what is acceptable by WHO in terms of food and hygiene.
Still amazed by folk thinking we will be back to normal in a few weeks.Just been to Tesco and lady in front is addling around the store looking at everything deciding what to put in her basket with a queue behind her then when I asked could she stand aside while I come by I got the death stare.Decide what you want before you go in!

The stupidity you see in Britain during this crisis is something you usually only see at the airport

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:30 pm

Kwini

Sorry that was sarcasm aimed at super.

Although given they were the first to get it, albeit self inflected, it appears they handled it OK based on current info.
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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:33 pm

Mac, what do you make of the apparent disproportionate way it affects people from BAME backgrounds? Surprised you haven't mentioned it before given how you elected yourself a spokesman.
Do you think there might be a genetic predisposition to being more likely to be affected more seriously, or is it more linked to socio economic and other demographic factors.

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:37 pm

Super

Hard to know what to make of that.

First guesses would be genetics (unlikely), proportion of bame people in care jobs, proportion of bame people with poverty linked health issues, bame access to PPE. But really it is hard to see what is causing it right now.

Have other countries seen the same pattern?
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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:39 pm

It is known though that certain ethnicities are more susceptible to diabetes, kidney problems, sickle cell anaemia etc.

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Post by dynamark Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:39 pm

Super so correct I use Ryanair out of East Midlands its tragic priority queue is longer than the non priority and they get to stand in line and sit on a plane for longer !I'm last on Ive got a seat booked! and then when we land everyone jumps up and grabs their bag and stands there for 10 minutes.Last on shuttle bus is usually first off.
BAME more Diabetics and multi generation households must be a factor plus mass worship?

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:41 pm

True, and there is the weird one (Ms I think) where the rates increase the further from the equator you are.

Thing for the genetics angle is bame is a very broad category.
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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:42 pm

Multi generation households is probably a good shout.
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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:44 pm

Surely Mac as the further you get away from the equator the more likely you are to live longer and more likely you are to therefore develop the sort of illness that appears later in life?
It's one of the reasons cancers are lower in Africa, for many kinds people simply don't live long enough to get them.
Life expectancy of many equatorial countries is already low.

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:46 pm

This might help

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21478203/

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Post by dynamark Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:47 pm

Mac its not just in the house they are generally very social, corner shop ,barbers,in the street,very tactile .I go to football with some Sihk friends and they all shake hands with me and each other before and after .Your average Brit doesn't know his neighbour .I live on my own(aaahhh) and in the last 5 weeks I have seen my son once at distance and had a chat out of the window with a few folk.The dopey old dear in the Tescos is my biggest contact.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:49 pm

McLaren wrote:Kwini

Sorry that was sarcasm aimed at super.

Although given they were the first to get it, albeit self inflected, it appears they handled it OK based on current info.


I get that Mac, But I was dead serious! Plus: No-one will ever know exactly what went down in China. Given the apparent impact on their economy, you'd think that was way out of proportion to their alleged fatalities.


Heard of my first acquaintance to die of this sh1t yesterday, 31-y-o gorgeous young lady in Florida who proved that you can only pump your body full of drugs for so long before something catches up with you, in her case the dreaded Covid put the nail in her coffin. Too bad.

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:49 pm

McLaren wrote:This might help

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21478203/


Solar radiation playing a key role then.

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Post by dynamark Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:51 pm

Am I correct there was a case in the Falklands? How -an albatross maybe.
Numbers for Iceland ,the Yukon ,Patagonia would be interesting

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 1:52 pm

dynamark wrote:Am I correct there was a case in the Falklands? How -an albatross maybe.
Numbers for Iceland ,the Yukon ,Patagonia would be interesting

Or Greenland.

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 2:00 pm

Sorry to hear that kwini.
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Post by dynamark Mon 27 Apr 2020, 2:04 pm

Kwini bad news sorry to hear.Im not aware of anyone who has even been infected but lots of folk with other usual issues.Neighbour telling me last night his chemo had been put off 6 weeks ago -collateral damage possibly. Other routine stuff on hold which may have a consequence down the line we will get the picture eventually.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 27 Apr 2020, 2:17 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-22/iceland-is-the-perfect-country-for-studying-covid-19


As of last Tuesday:
1778 positive tests
10 deaths
A sh1tload of testing

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Post by JAS Mon 27 Apr 2020, 4:08 pm

Aw Poopie that is not good news Kwini :-(

Regarding more remote places, for a time, Shetland actually had the worst per head of population rate of any area in the U.K. A family returning from a northern Italy ski trip apparently, pretty much no tracing until it was too late.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 27 Apr 2020, 4:43 pm

So it turns out that dear old Jeremy Corbyn has a brother who shall we say is an interesting chap.

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 4:50 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:So it turns out that dear old Jeremy Corbyn has a brother who shall we say is an interesting chap.

He's been spouting nonsense even longer than Jeremy.

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 27 Apr 2020, 5:00 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy

As I said we all know the caveats. But that doesn't change the fact having a huge deaths per million is currently worrying.

Maybe the UK has a more virulent strain, who knows, but if it does then surely that just adds to the concern?
Maybe, but stop throwing probably unwarranted blame around at this juncture, perhaps?
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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 27 Apr 2020, 5:01 pm

super_realist wrote:WHO have a lot to answer for in regards to many countries  initially slow response.
Not really. Don't believe everything coming out of Trump's mouth...
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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 5:03 pm

I don't need to WHO tweeted in January that Coronavirus couldn't be transmitted from Human to Human, have been very sympathetic to China and have stated that they approve of them restarting wet markets.

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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 5:07 pm

Hey Mac, Beninho, today's Governmental briefing is on, and Dominic Cummings is the scientific adviser today..................



Just kidding, it's Prof Chris Whitty and Prof Stephen Powis.

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 5:10 pm

I haven't watched any of the briefings. What are they like?
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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 5:12 pm

I don't watch, I occasionally listen just to get the numbers and any update. Just the usual stuff you would expect but I always turn off before the usual set of retarded questions from the ghastly Kuennsburg, Rigby and Peston get wheeled out.

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 5:44 pm

Super

Kuennsberg just gives me the horn.
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Post by super_realist Mon 27 Apr 2020, 5:48 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

Kuennsberg just gives me the horn.

She's awful Mac. Is she a "weird crush" or do you genuinely think she's hot?
She looks incredibly plain and uninteresting.

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Post by McLaren Mon 27 Apr 2020, 5:56 pm

Genuinely think she is hot
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Join date : 2011-01-27

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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread - Page 5 Empty Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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