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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 23 May 2020, 8:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

We have actual cricket news for the first time in forever...and some hope that we will see some test matches this summer!

England bowlers began a return to individual training on Thursday, with batsmen and wicketkeepers scheduled to make a return on 1st June, in anticipation of the West Indies series being rescheduled to begin on 8th July (all according to various reports).

There was also reports a few weeks back they might play some one day games, whilst tests are happening too. Not seen anything else about that, but with England’s depth in the shorter format it could be done you’d think players wise (and actually would present a good opportunity to some on the fringes)

ECB is going to confirm the full list of players who will resume training next week. Murmurings about Hales in the one day stuff don’t go away...

So anyways - let’s keep fingers crossed, and hope everyone who posts here is healthy and staying safe too Hug
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Post by king_carlos on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 6:53 pm

Most batsman will leave a ball then practice a little checked drive that they'd like to play if the ball were a touch fuller.

Dom Sibley plays a little checked drive straight to point then practices the leave he'd like to play if the ball were a touch shorter.

Gotta love him.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 7:36 pm

Dominant day for England at 207/3. It belongs to Sibley and Stokes for their excellent contributions.

If the West Indies don't make early breakthroughs with that new ball tomorrow, it could be another long day in the field for them.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 7:37 pm

A good day for England and a tough day for the Windies seamers. If England hadn't lost two silly wickets to Chase then it could be an even better position.

It sums Holder up quite well that he had an average day with the ball but still got through 20 overs at an economy of 1.65 with 8 maidens.

Joseph for me was the pick of the seamers today. Holder and Roach were getting some good movement at the end though.

If it keeps seaming about and the cracks open up then Broad and Woakes will be in the game.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 7:42 pm

Very good day for england, great work from Sibley and Stokes.

Really poor from the West Indies though - the ball swung all day, spin too for Chase, and they never really exerted too much pressure. Gabriel clearly not fully fit coming into the test either, he looked like a 65 year old in the field

Big chance for england to go big tomorrow - and for that extended batting order to go in and up the rate...
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 8:08 pm

Just caught the end of the day on the BBC highlights and the west indies bowlers looked absolutely goosed by the end of the day. They will need some venom with that new ball early tomorrow to avoid being well behind in the game, I fancy anyone batting after lunch will have a fairly easy ride.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 8:56 pm

It's always the same with the Windies, their bowlers seem to lack either the fitness or the mental strength to string a series of performances together. If and it's a big Stokes is there after an hour tomorrow I can see him causing havoc.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 9:07 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:It's always the same with the Windies, their bowlers seem to lack either the fitness or the mental strength to string a series of performances together.

As opposed to Anderson and Wood....

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 9:35 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Hard not to be impressed by Sibley, horrible to watch and has very few scoring shots but his level of concentration is highly effective.

Certainly knows his areas to score, and isn’t going to go outside of those too often! Made a very promising start to his test career, an overseas hundred in his first winter (against a good SA attack), and potentially on his way to a hundred in just his third innings on home soil
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Post by JDizzle on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 11:12 pm

I am getting some very Nick Compton vibes about Sibley at the moment though. When you are in form, this is a fine way to bat but that needs to be in everyone's minds when it looks really, really ugly when you are out of form.

Since 2000, only one other batsman (minimum 10 innings) has averaged over 40 in Tests whilst striking at under 40 (quiz question for you all for it is!). He can't be content that this is his method... He needs to find ways to rotate the strike better still.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 16 Jul 2020, 11:54 pm

I don't think Sibley's strike rate is a concern if he's scoring enough runs, one day cricket has made an issue out of something that doesn't exist.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:42 am

Soul Requiem wrote:I don't think Sibley's strike rate is a concern if he's scoring enough runs, one day cricket has made an issue out of something that doesn't exist.

I'm a Sibley fan but I think the argument for him rotating the strike more is valid. I think JDizzle has a good point. Getting bogged down so easily will lead to batting being harder for him when out of form.

Ricky Ponting often says the best thing you can do as a batsman out of form is get down the non-strikers end. Just stay in the middle and let that touch come back basically. If Sibley is out of form, which will happen as to all batsman, then with his current game he won't be able to do that.

I've not seen anyone suggest he'd be a better player if he scored less runs at a higher strike rate. Most fans have been very complimentary of his brief Test career. The vast majority also seeing things in perspective with regards to how poor Jennings and Roy were. Nobodies suggesting he try to become Sehwag. Just that he develops the ability, particularly against spin, to rotate the strike. Personally I think developing that ability over time, not overnight, will reduce pressure on him rather than increase it.

Having limited scoring options doesn't concern me either. I used to have a Simon Hughes book as a kid that included an analysis of Graham Thorpe when he first started scoring Test runs. Basically it showed that early in his innings he relied predominantly on a flicked pull of his hip, a viscous cut shot and a checked drive. A poor short ball/half tracker on the body punished, short and wide punished, over pitched punished. The rest he left/ducked/blocked. Simple and limited but very effective.

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Post by JDizzle on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 7:10 am

Soul Requiem wrote:I don't think Sibley's strike rate is a concern if he's scoring enough runs, one day cricket has made an issue out of something that doesn't exist.

King Carlos puts pretty much how I feel on this more eloquently than I will, but I don’t disagree with what you say. But history suggests that striking at sub 40 isn’t a long term strategy of success and he just needs to be aware of that and look to improve it. No need to rip his batting strategy up overnight.

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 7:49 am

Sibley is doing a good job at the moment. Yes he's short on scoring shots , and particularly seems to battle to score off the spinners - but as long as he is surrounded by more fluent strikers (not Denly , for example) this matters less than it might.
Of more concern to me - well not so much concern , as reservation , is that he is still only half a dozen Tests in to his career. So he is likely to be more thoroughly tested over the next year or so as his weaknesses are dissected by analysts. He hasn't always looked exactly secure early in his innings so I suppose it is a little too early to say how much of his success is down to fortune and how much to his undoubted determination to put a high price on his wicket.
The analogy with Compton is arguably a fair one. Hopefully he will develop in a way that the other man did not...and perhaps will be treated a bit more kindly by the selectors if he does strike a flat spot ?

In any case he is at the moment making runs and shoring up the early part of the England innings...and we can't reasonably ask more than that.


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Post by dummy_half on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 7:56 am

No problem with Sibley starting his innings at less that 2 runs an over - he's an opener and so his job includes batting time and taking the sting out of the attack. However, his role model should be Alistair Cook - did the blocking against the opening bowlers, but would go on and score at a strike rate often around 50 even with his limited shot-playing by:
1 - Being able to rotate the strike with pushed singles
2 - Maximising the runs when he got a ball in one of his areas (cut, clip, pull). That is, send it to the boundary when it's there to be hit.

England's plan today should be to grind for another hour or so and then start to get the scoreboard really going round once the bowlers have been ground into the dirt. Hopefully Sibley will get to a well-deserved 100.

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 8:15 am

Assuming decent weather I think England should aim to move the game along quickly today...they need to up that scoring rate so that they can get a substantial score on the board and make a hole in the West Indian first innings before the close. (Unless they are going to get something like 500 - unlikely - I reckon they'll have to bat twice so time will be important )
If Craig can tear himself away from the Scottish independence thread for a few minutes perhaps he will give us a detailed road map for the second day Smile

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 8:41 am

England should be looking for a minimum of 400 from this position. Hopefully we'll see one of those knocks from Buttler that the selectors desire. It could be the day he saves his test career, or the day it expires for good.

But we're all wary of the collapse around the corner. In the last test, England went from 249/3 to 313 all out, which paved the way for the West Indies' win. It shouldn't happen again, with a longer tail and the tourists looking ragged yesterday, but you never know.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 8:55 am

400 is a pretty ambitious target still.

West Indies are starting with the new ball and England are into the tail once one of these fall, albeit a ridiculously strong tail. There was no extended period of play yesterday where half chances werent given, the holder drop the screaming one. If they don't get those early wickets though then England do have the players to really make them suffer after lunch.

Time should not be a consideration at this point. Sibley bats one way, and that's really not a problem its also another over in the legs of the quicks which they will feel in the second innings. Let's worry about 300 first then the big hitters can do their thing and take even more out of the windies making them run around in the field. 400 really would be a should win position given the lack of batting talent in the opposition.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 8:59 am

Duty281 wrote:England should be looking for a minimum of 400 from this position. Hopefully we'll see one of those knocks from Buttler that the selectors desire. It could be the day he saves his test career, or the day it expires for good.

But we're all wary of the collapse around the corner. In the last test, England went from 249/3 to 313 all out, which paved the way for the West Indies' win. It shouldn't happen again, with a longer tail and the tourists looking ragged yesterday, but you never know.

Yes very much feels like Jos enters the last chance saloon today....what we'd all give for an ODI-esque 85 (62) from him today...
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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 9:12 am

[quote="Gooseberry"]400 is a pretty ambitious target still.

West Indies are starting with the new ball and England are into the tail once one of these fall albeit a ridiculously strong tail. There was no extended period of play yesterday where half chances werent given, the holder drop the screaming one. If they don't get those early wickets though then England do have the players to really make them suffer after lunch.

Time should not be a consideration at this point. Sibley bats one way, and that's really not a problem its also another over in the legs of the quicks which they will feel in the second innings. Let's worry about 300 first then the big hitters can do their thing and take even more out of the windies making them run around in the field. 400 really would be a should win position given the lack of batting talent in the opposition. [/quote

Bit hard on Pope there , goose !

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 9:35 am

Oh gosh yeah my apologies Id forgotten he was a thing at all! Must be because he went missing from the last test Whistle

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 10:04 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:England should be looking for a minimum of 400 from this position. Hopefully we'll see one of those knocks from Buttler that the selectors desire. It could be the day he saves his test career, or the day it expires for good.

But we're all wary of the collapse around the corner. In the last test, England went from 249/3 to 313 all out, which paved the way for the West Indies' win. It shouldn't happen again, with a longer tail and the tourists looking ragged yesterday, but you never know.

Yes very much feels like Jos enters the last chance saloon today....what we'd all give for an ODI-esque 85 (62) from him today...

I really do not see them dropping Buttler before the end of this series. There just seem to be far too many "supportive" comments being given to various media by team management.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 10:20 am

The first hour this morning will be vital. New ball presumably being taken and I'd wager that the Windies seam attack will use it better than the first one.

If Sibley and Stokes can be there as things settle down then England could be in a really good position.

Call me pessimistic but I think this pitch will be excellent for batting on day 2 and 3. If England can cash in on that then they will be well set. If we see an all too familiar collapse to around 300-320 then the Windies might have some really good batting conditions to respond.

It's another test shaping up well though. Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Curran and Woakes will all score quickly by playing their natural game.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 10:22 am

Im in the same mind with Buttler in terms of what maybe should be and what probably will be. But also its worth remembering that rotation for him was likely always part of the plan this summer, 6 tests in 7 weeks is a lot to put on a three format player even if he will miss the Ireland white ball.  Its also difficult for Foakes or Bairstow to put pressure on from the outside when theres no other red ball going on. Bairstow as we know has been dropped for a similar poor run of form, and Foakes missed his chance by having a relatively poor county season last year.
There obviously comes a point where you just have to shake things up, as has been the case with the revolving door of openers in recent years, but i like to see player demanding a call up  to get a place. If/when Foakes gets a chance its on him to take it with both hands ( or a couple of leaping salmon one handed takes) and demand to get the job long term if he genuinely is the better player.


edit...checked Foakes' record and hes only played in one warm up in sri lanka and the warm for this since the end of last season. Its over a year since he passed 50 in red ball.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 10:40 am

Wasn't Buttler's only red ball fifty in the last year against Australia at the Oval though?

I'm not saying that Foakes is in prime form but not having a chance to display form in the last 6 months is arguably better than having displayed poor form!

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 10:43 am

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcw25grrk#?date=2020-07-18

Weather looks a little miserable for tomorrow. Could be tough to force a result if that forecast comes to fruition.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 10:52 am

Duty281 wrote:https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcw25grrk#?date=2020-07-18

Weather looks a little miserable for tomorrow. Could be tough to force a result if that forecast comes to fruition.

Sadly it looks pretty rubbish. Listening to the TMS commentary just now and they are saying that they are hopeful of play but expecting significant delays.

Looking at it more optimistically it should mean cloud cover for Broad, Woakes and especially Curran if there is play.

It doesn't really change England's aim though. Bat at least 2 more sessions then try to put them under pressure with early wickets.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:09 am

king_carlos wrote:
Duty281 wrote:https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcw25grrk#?date=2020-07-18

Weather looks a little miserable for tomorrow. Could be tough to force a result if that forecast comes to fruition.

Sadly it looks pretty rubbish. Listening to the TMS commentary just now and they are saying that they are hopeful of play but expecting significant delays.

Looking at it more optimistically it should mean cloud cover for Broad, Woakes and especially Curran if there is play.

It doesn't really change England's aim though. Bat at least 2 more sessions then try to put them under pressure with early wickets.

Rain percentages arent very high so likely to be only small disruptions. Does mean both teams get to bowl under cloud too and as we know from the last match Stuart Broad automatically wins you the game if theres a cloud.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:12 am

Noones going to want to stand at second slip if Gabriel keeps bowling straight at them! Maybe a wake up call for Holder

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:14 am

Gabriel actually started off alright this time, but now his radar has malfunctioned again.

And how many times is Joseph going to be allowed to trespass in the 'red area' before the umpire does something about it?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:19 am

If Sibley gets there, where will this rank in all time slowest England hundreds? He must be getting towards top 10 in balls faced if he does get there already
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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:21 am

Plenty of movement...Gabriel might be quite dangerous to a batsman taking guard on the next pitch over from this one.

Not sure how he has lost it so dramatically from last week. Seems to have recovered from his injury quite well at least...last couple of balls more like it.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:30 am

Sibley apparently scoring faster than Stokes against the seamers, which shows how much he hit Chase.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:33 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If Sibley gets there, where will this rank in all time slowest England hundreds? He must be getting towards top 10 in balls faced if he does get there already

This came up yesterday...apparently the balls faced stats only dates back to 1989 so gives a false return on the cricinfo database. The TMS chap has more detailed stats from scorecards, its not even close to all time but is up there fpr recent. Stokes if you only count balls from seamers is apparently up there with the slowest centuries for scoring rates in test cricket though.

The way Gabriels bowling only dot balls or wides extras might get to 100 first!


Edit ... 150 balls seam faced in the first innings Stokes' currently the slowest scoring ever in tests.


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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:33 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If Sibley gets there, where will this rank in all time slowest England hundreds? He must be getting towards top 10 in balls faced if he does get there already

I don't know...it seems slow ; but in fact his scoring rate in this innings is not that much slower than Stokes ( he's just under 1 run every three , Stokes at his current rate would be on Sibley's score only about twenty four balls earlier.) Considering that he faced the early overs it isn't that awful.

Edit ...those figures change by the over so don't shoot me , mathematicians Smile

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:37 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If Sibley gets there, where will this rank in all time slowest England hundreds? He must be getting towards top 10 in balls faced if he does get there already

Of the records that exist, 32 test centuries have taken up more than 300 balls. Atherton, Hussain and Boycott all feature on the list - but the slowest by an Englishman was Clive Radley against New Zealand in 1978: he took 396 balls to score a ton and eventually finished up with 158 off 524 balls. The match was drawn.

https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/news/cricket_quiz_slowest_test_centuries.html

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:38 am

Vaughn now rightly wondering why they havent taken the new ball. The premier quicks already have a few overs in their legs.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:40 am

Wondering where this will end up on percentage of runs from extras ...currently 25 from 219 which is pretty ridiculous.

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:42 am

Surprised the Windies haven't taken the new ball yet. Hussain suggesting Holder would be concerned about leaking runs as the reason but his side do need wickets. We haven't dominated the opening 40 minutes in terms of runs scored but we've continued to grind on and increase our advantage.
Unlike Alfie (not often I type that), I'm not concerned about time at this stage.

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:48 am

guildfordbat wrote:Surprised the Windies haven't taken the new ball yet. Hussain suggesting Holder would be concerned about leaking runs as the reason but his side do need wickets. We haven't dominated the opening 40 minutes in terms of runs scored but we've continued to grind on and increase our advantage.
Unlike Alfie (not often I type that), I'm not concerned about time at this stage.

Still no new ball. Odd indeed. I know the old one is moving a bit but with no wickets down the bowlers will be tired before they ever take the new one , even if they do get a break...

Yeah I know it is early to be stressing about time ; but I don't trust the British weather .

Maybe Holder already has one eye on a draw ?

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:53 am

Well the draw is fast becoming the favourite, with the game moving at a glacial pace, but the last time I said that there was a total English collapse.

New ball taken, time to wake up.

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Post by GSC on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 11:53 am

14 runs scored in coming up to an hour, then WIs take the new ball. Bit of a nothing morning so far
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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:00 pm

Taken at last. Can't help thinking England have taken the tactical honours today...
Dawdled for fifty minutes (17 runs from 11 overs) and kept their wickets in hand ; now ready to look for runs against more attacking fields and a harder ball.

May still change completely. But it seems odd , negative play from the tourists.

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Post by GSC on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:02 pm

Maybe, but England's scoring rate still means the WIs are well in this if they can get some inroads with the new ball
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:03 pm

22/0 in the opening hour.

At some point England are going to have to attack if they want to win this series.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:04 pm

alfie wrote:Taken at last.  Can't help thinking England have taken the tactical honours today...
Dawdled for fifty minutes (17 runs from 11 overs) and kept their wickets in hand ; now ready to look for runs against more attacking fields and a harder ball.

May still change completely. But it seems odd , negative play from the tourists.

WI do not need to win the test, so perhaps quite happy to bore us into making a mistake?

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:17 pm

Looks that way , LT.

Don't know. Still think England will get a move on at some point , and as long as they don't make too big a score (yes I'd sooner see them out for under 400 as I reckon they bowl better when they don't have a "monster" to defend) a good bowling effort in useful conditions might put the tourists under a lot of pressure. Sitting back too early in a game is a dangerous choice.

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:20 pm

17 overs today for 32 runs. Sibley really is becalmed...just five added, at this rate Stokes will reach the century first.

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Post by GSC on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:22 pm

Think they're gonna have to take the initiative pretty soon after lunch if they want to force a result
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:25 pm

West Indies out to 33/1 with the bookmakers. But England don't have that many runs...not yet anyway.

'Geoff' Sibley four runs away from joining the 300-ball club of centurions.


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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 12:33 pm

GSC wrote:Think they're gonna have to take the initiative pretty soon after lunch if they want to force a result

Agreed. Should have a pretty good platform from which to launch , at least. And some weary bowlers. But you'd really want to be bowling well before the close so they will need to step on it when they do.

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