PGATour Running Commentary - Aug 2020

by GPB Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

PGATour Running Commentary- Aug 2020

1. Last week: Justin Thomas overcame a 4 shot deficit to win the WGC-FEDEX St Jude by three shots over a four players of Tom Lewis, Daniel Berger, Phil Mickelson and Brooks Koepka Richie Werenski won the Barracuda event, by one point over Troy Merritt.

2. After he won the Memorial, Jon Rahm took the #1 OWGR ranking from Rory, and now after winning the FEDEX, Justin Thomas took the #1 spot.

3. This week is the PGA Championship, with most of the OWGR Top 100 players in the field. The tournament venue is at Harding Park, which has hosted two WGC tournaments in the last 20 years. Here are some finishes by players in this years field: Woods (1), Garcia (3), Stenson (3), GMac (6), Furyk (15)Poulter (18), Mickelson (29), Scott (29), ZJohnson (43), The Match play was played at Harding Park in 2015, won by Rory, beating Woodland in finals. Players advancing to the Round of 16, include Willett, Furyk, Casey, Oosty, Fleetwood, Fowler, Hideki, and Leishman.

4. Only two more tournaments to qualify for the FEDEX playoffs, some notable players that are currently inside the Top 125, but probably have not clinched a spot in the Northern Trust (Tom Lewis (#117), Russell Knox (#120, Paul Casey (#121), Charl Schwartzel (#123). Some players just barely outside the Top 125 include Nick Watney, Zach Johnson, Matt Wallace, Shane Lowry, RCB, Sergio, and Justin Rose. Some players that need a big week to get inside the Top 125 include Willett, Dufner, Power, Walker, Stenson

by McLaren Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:20 pm

Pedro, see my post above. At 272 starts DJ has a major, Phil hand't by that point.

by GPB Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:27 pm

Some #1 rankings are better than others,

IMO, Westwood's and Kaymer's #1 rankings are a case of "Someone has to have the #1 ranking, it might as well be me"

Westwood first got #1 the ranking in week 44 of 2010 with an OWGR average of 8.28. He was #1 for a total of 22 weeks, his last week at #1 was Week 22 of 2011. His best average as #1 was 9.37 in Week 51 of 2010.

Kaymer first got the #1 ranking on week 9 of 2011 with an 8.35 avg. Kaymer held the ranking of 8 total weeks and 8.35 was his best average.

Mickelson has never had the #1 ranking, but since 2007*, his OWGR average has been greater than 9.37 for 51 different weeks and greater than 8.35 for 139 weeks.

Luke Donald was #1 for 56 weeks, and 29 of those weeks his OWGR average was greater than 10.00, which makes his reign at #1 a lot more respectable than either Westwood's or Kaymer's.

From late 2010 to early 2011, someone had to be the #1 ranked player, and Westy and Kaymer fit the suit.

by beninho Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:43 pm

GPB wrote:Some #1 rankings are better than others,

IMO, Westwood's and Kaymer's #1 rankings are a case of "Someone has to have the #1 ranking, it might as well be me"

Westwood first got #1 the ranking in week 44 of 2010 with an OWGR average of 8.28. He was #1 for a total of 22 weeks, his last week at #1 was Week 22 of 2011. His best average as #1 was 9.37 in Week 51 of 2010.

Kaymer first got the #1 ranking on week 9 of 2011 with an 8.35 avg. Kaymer held the ranking of 8 total weeks and 8.35 was his best average.

Mickelson has never had the #1 ranking, but since 2007*, his OWGR average has been greater than 9.37 for 51 different weeks and greater than 8.35 for 139 weeks.

Luke Donald was #1 for 56 weeks, and 29 of those weeks his OWGR average was greater than 10.00, which makes his reign at #1 a lot more respectable than either Westwood's or Kaymer's.

From late 2010 to early 2011, someone had to be the #1 ranked player, and Westy and Kaymer fit the suit.

No real idea what any of this means. Just to clarify when lw and my were number 1, no obe else had a higher ranking?

by Davie Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:47 pm

beninho wrote:

No real idea what any of this means. Just to clarify when lw and my were number 1, no obe else had a higher ranking?

I have no idea what any of your reply means either laughing

by super_realist Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:17 am

GPB wrote:Some #1 rankings are better than others,

IMO, Westwood's and Kaymer's #1 rankings are a case of "Someone has to have the #1 ranking, it might as well be me"

Westwood first got #1 the ranking in week 44 of 2010 with an OWGR average of 8.28. He was #1 for a total of 22 weeks, his last week at #1 was Week 22 of 2011. His best average as #1 was 9.37 in Week 51 of 2010.

Kaymer first got the #1 ranking on week 9 of 2011 with an 8.35 avg. Kaymer held the ranking of 8 total weeks and 8.35 was his best average.

Mickelson has never had the #1 ranking, but since 2007*, his OWGR average has been greater than 9.37 for 51 different weeks and greater than 8.35 for 139 weeks.

Luke Donald was #1 for 56 weeks, and 29 of those weeks his OWGR average was greater than 10.00, which makes his reign at #1 a lot more respectable than either Westwood's or Kaymer's.

From late 2010 to early 2011, someone had to be the #1 ranked player, and Westy and Kaymer fit the suit.

How does that explain how you rank Watson over Kaymer?
You always have an excuse and your own arbitrary rules for what figures actually mean and represent.
To be number one means you have been the most cosistent player over a period of time and seeing as you so like being "better than the average" then Kaymer, Donald and Westwood were just that, significantly better than the rest of the field and enough to be justifiably the number one player in the world.

Funny that you don't mention Justin Thomas' or Rev Gordon Spieths average. Was it just because they're Yanks?

by **navyblueshorts** Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:53 am

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Would you really want DJ's brain? He's so dense he bends light.

Nice try super, but sadly light is not bent by mass. The shape of spacetime is bent by mass and the light just travels in a straight line through the bent spacetime geometry.

Always hilarious when someone makes themselves look stupid when trying to mock another for being dumb.

by incontinentia Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:25 am

GPB wrote:Some #1 rankings are better than others,

IMO, Westwood's and Kaymer's #1 rankings are a case of "Someone has to have the #1 ranking, it might as well be me"

Westwood first got #1 the ranking in week 44 of 2010 with an OWGR average of 8.28. He was #1 for a total of 22 weeks, his last week at #1 was Week 22 of 2011. His best average as #1 was 9.37 in Week 51 of 2010.

Kaymer first got the #1 ranking on week 9 of 2011 with an 8.35 avg. Kaymer held the ranking of 8 total weeks and 8.35 was his best average.

Mickelson has never had the #1 ranking, but since 2007*, his OWGR average has been greater than 9.37 for 51 different weeks and greater than 8.35 for 139 weeks.

Luke Donald was #1 for 56 weeks, and 29 of those weeks his OWGR average was greater than 10.00, which makes his reign at #1 a lot more respectable than either Westwood's or Kaymer's.

From late 2010 to early 2011, someone had to be the #1 ranked player, and Westy and Kaymer fit the suit.

Thats a very interesting take, thank you GPB. I kind of agree that those guys were #1 sort of by default as Woods was out with injuries etc. Amazing that Mickelson never held the #1 spot, he surely deserved a taste of it.

by McLaren Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:29 am

GPB/Inco

How do you view the current #1 ranking? DJ only has 9.16 and the position has changed hand many times over the summer. Is this another period without a dominant "true" #1?

by incontinentia Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:04 pm

McLaren wrote:GPB/Inco

How do you view the current #1 ranking? DJ only has 9.16 and the position has changed hand many times over the summer. Is this another period without a dominant "true" #1?

It definitely is Mac. Hard to see any of the current crop dominating like Woods did, so it will probably be a rotating #1 spot for the foreseeable. It will be interesting to see how the new crop like Morikawa et al get on. Did you see that crazy stat where his 6 iron has the same dispersion as a regular tour players pitching wedge?! Given the importance of approach shots, he could be the one to grab the #1 spot and keep it. Also, he seems quite "clutch", as our friends in the states would say.

by McLaren Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:11 pm

Tigers approach play from 150+ was one of the areas where he dominated the game. Looking good for Morikawa if he can replicate that.

by GPB Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:10 pm

Anytime I see a OWGR #1 ranking with an average below 10, I think of it as the #1 player as a placeholder. There are four total players with averages above 8.0 and another one at 7.5. And Morikawa's would definitely be higher if he had a fully populated resume. Anyone of these 5 players could be #1 on Monday.

I don't think anyone is going to breakout out of the pack and get a stranglehold of the #1 ranking

by GPB Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:56 pm

Mickelson is blowing out the field in his first Champions Tour event.

He has a chance to shoot the low score in each round (albeit only 3 rounds).

I don't think shooting the medalist round in each round has ever been done before on the PGATour.

by incontinentia Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:07 pm

Surely super realist could beat this given his running chops?

by incontinentia Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:09 pm

GPB wrote:Mickelson is blowing out the field in his first Champions Tour event.

He has a chance to shoot the low score in each round (albeit only 3 rounds).

I don't think shooting the medalist round in each round has ever been done before on the PGATour.

Does anyone actually watch the Champions Tour? No disrespect to those involved, but I have zero interest in it.

by GPB Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:00 pm

I don't have a lot of interest in Sr Golf, but I would rather watch Sr Golf, than most other programming.

by pedro Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:10 am

What about a std.dev., Z score or field differential on the #1 OWGR points? Just to see whether the #1’s have been exceptional or just very good?

by McLaren Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:22 am

Pedro

You are probably taking the pish but it is the sensible thing to do. I would like to know who is the #1 OWGR #1.

What was the Tiger stat that the commentary used to roll out every week, something like the gap between Tiger and #2 was the same as the gap between #2 and 1000.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:42 pm

incontinentia wrote:
GPB wrote:Mickelson is blowing out the field in his first Champions Tour event.

He has a chance to shoot the low score in each round (albeit only 3 rounds).

I don't think shooting the medalist round in each round has ever been done before on the PGATour.
Does anyone actually watch the Champions Tour? No disrespect to those involved, but I have zero interest in it.

None. I did occasionally when it was clearly a chance to see legends in action, but it's become an additional pension pot for recently uncompetitive main Tour players. They simply blow the old guard away and it's not like the oldies can use playing experience in their favour cf. regular Tour players vs. newcomers to that world. Pretty pointless.

by robopz Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:49 pm

GPB wrote:Shotrock-

I can't believe there are alleged "knowledgeable" posters who think clubs like your club and others need to jump through hoops to get the PGATour to play at their course. The course belongs to the membership for 51 weeks a year, and they may not want to cut down trees to make the course longer and grow rough to 3.5".

Oakmont wants to have the toughest course in the nation, and that's fine. Its their club. Buit if you want to rent my house for a week, don't expect me to paint the exterior because you don't like a white house and want a purple house with orange shutters.

Just to be clear though... The courses that host the PGA tour want the PGA tour and are willing to do whatever they have to keep them. It's a prestige thing for them. And the members approve or The tour wouldn't be there. Also more and more of the courses are owned by the Tour, so they are going to do whatever they want.

So I have ZERO concern for the members at those places because they absolutely know what they're getting into. If you're a member in the minority at one of those clubs and don't want the tour there, fine, resign and go someplace else. Nobody's chaining you to the property.

As for TPC Boston? That place is a beast. But when weather softens up golf courses guys at that level are going to eat them for lunch. And that's before you get into how guys are overwhelming courses with length now. Just watch what happens at Olympia Fields this week. Supposedly they have firm fast the first two days, with weather expected in Friday night to soften up the weekend... If that in fact happens, the difference in the way that course plays will be night and day

by robopz Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:10 pm

As for comments earlier in this threat about Dustin Johnson being overrated... I'm sorry but I see it exactly the opposite. He's UNDERrated.

He was a decent player in college but basically entered the pros with zero fantair. Nobody, and I mean nobody saw him has a guy who would win at least once for 13 seasons, ever get to #1 for 92 weeks (5th most ever), win 6 WGC's, a major and become one of the best on the PGA Tour of his generation.

And as far as one best of his generation on the PGA Tour, That's not an opinion that's fact as the numbers back it up. Problem is people look at win totals of the past and don't think much about a guy with "only" 22 wins. Well excuse me, but most people just don't get how few people do that in these days of exponentially increased depth of fields and international competition.

And international competition is a key. it's really hard for international players to get high on a list of PGA tour wins because most split time on 2 tours. But those guys are competing on the PGA tour too and in most of the fields that DJ has beaten.

I would also point out... DJ is actually ahead of Phil Mickelsons based on number of events played. And DJ won his 1st major quicker than Phil did. Now nobody can know if he will keep pace, but he is in the prime of his career right now.

Consider the graphic below... It demonstrates how "back in the day"... It took 29 or 30 wins to be a top-10 player of your era. But because it's so much harder to win now, The benchmark is more like 20. It's not that players have gotten worse. It's that there are more players who can win today, they are bunched in common fields more, so they are all "stealing" wins from each other... Deflating win totals for all of them. (Yes, even Tiger too)

No I will agree that because of golfs general over simplistic thought that "only majors matter", DJ might not yet stack up to some. But his career ain't over yet either...

PGATour Running Commentary - Aug 2020 - Page 7 Egmqg410

by robopz Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:31 pm

Somebody was asking about OWGR high and low averages... Here they are since the beginning of 2010 when the OWGR "Merry-Go-Round" began... 13 players.

PGATour Running Commentary - Aug 2020 - Page 7 Owgr-h10

by GPB Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:36 pm

Mickelson picked a bad time to be good.

Since Jan 1, 2010 he has had 56 weeks with an average above 7.65.
44 weeks with an avg higher than 8.00
19 weeks with an avg higher than 9.00
8 weeks with an avg than 9.5
Highest average was 9.86.

His best chance of having the #1 ranking was during the summer of 2010, when Woods was free falling. That is when he was first diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, and he was trying to find a way deal with that affliction.

If only he had done was Westwood did. Sit on his ass and wait for the math to catch up with the rankings and backdoor the #1 ranking.

by robopz Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:01 am

GPB wrote:Mickelson picked a bad time to be good.

Since Jan 1, 2010 he has had 56 weeks with an average above 7.65.
44 weeks with an avg higher than 8.00
19 weeks with an avg higher than 9.00
8 weeks with an avg than 9.5
Highest average was 9.86.

His best chance of having the #1 ranking was during the summer of 2010, when Woods was free falling. That is when he was first diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, and he was trying to find a way deal with that affliction.

If only he had done was Westwood did. Sit on his ass and wait for the math to catch up with the rankings and backdoor the #1 ranking.

I'm confused what you're talking about what Westwood did. Other than get injured, what did he do?. He WD'd from the WGC, then couldn't even play in the PGA... Then took some time to try to get better. Wasn't his fault Tiger happened to be in a free fall at the same time.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:23 am

GPB wrote:Mickelson picked a bad time to be good.

Since Jan 1, 2010 he has had 56 weeks with an average above 7.65.
44 weeks with an avg higher than 8.00
19 weeks with an avg higher than 9.00
8 weeks with an avg than 9.5
Highest average was 9.86.

His best chance of having the #1 ranking was during the summer of 2010, when Woods was free falling. That is when he was first diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, and he was trying to find a way deal with that affliction.

If only he had done was Westwood did. Sit on his ass and wait for the math to catch up with the rankings and backdoor the #1 ranking.

Shame about the last two sentences. St. Phil was at Death's door...wait, no he wasn't and the Westwood snipe is pretty pointless.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:40 am

Looks like we've got US Open-esque conditions at Olympia Field this week - certainly on day one the course was playing very firm. Much different to last weeks!

by beninho Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:41 am

I don't think anyone, myself included, has said that DJ is overrated. His record shows that he is anything but. That was never my point.

by GPB Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:09 pm

beninho wrote:I don't think anyone, myself included, has said that DJ is overrated. His record shows that he is anything but. That was never my point.

But you did say

The greatest underachiever in golf is Dustin.

Which I certainly don't believe and what I think Robo was countering*.

He has won more PGATour events than anyone less than 44 yrs old. And as Robo said, as an amateur, he was never considered a golf prodigy. As an amateur, he was good enough to make the 2007 Walker Cup team, but he was not getting exemptions into playing any PGATour events. I don't know anyone that projecting a great career for DJ when he turned pro.

On re-reading Robo's comments, he specifically did state "over-rated", but I think his comments support the argument that DJ is not an underachiever.

by beninho Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:53 pm

Its quite a nuanced position. The greatest underachiever, is not an overated player, and is not a standard underachiever. And to be fair, its still a view i hold, though the names of Couples and Norman both appear the rival him.

by beninho Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:26 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_golfers_with_most_PGA_Tour_wins

by GPB Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:02 pm

In the 1933 Western Open at Olympia Field, gangster Jack "Machine Gun Jack" McGurn an Al Capone Henchman was arrested while he was on the 7th green

wiki wrote:On August 25, 1933, the Western Open golf championship began at Olympia Fields Country Club in the far south suburb of Olympia Fields. A reasonably skilled golfer and flashy dresser, McGurn entered the competition as Vincent Gebhardi (another version of his real name), the professional at public Evergreen Golf Course. In the opening round, McGurn carded a 13-over-par 83 on course No. 4 (today's North Course). The next morning, the name "Gebhardi" on the day's pairing sheet was observed by an alert Chicago Police chief detective, who sent two sergeants to arrest him. "Aware of McGurn's truculent temper", the Chicago Tribune account reported, "the sergeants enlisted the help of Lt. Frank McGillen and five policemen from the Homewood station of the county highway force".

McGurn was playing much better the second day. The group of burly officers accosted McGurn on the seventh green and told him he was under arrest under a warrant issued the day before under the "criminal reputation law". He was accompanied by his wife, the glitzy "Blonde Alibi" Louise Rolfe. Wearing a tight, thin white dress and sporting a three-carat diamond ring, she approached the policemen and snapped, "Whose brilliant idea was this?" McGurn politely asked to finish his round. Amused, the plainclothesmen agreed and became part of his gallery. But the police presence began to unnerve McGurn and his game suddenly went sour. He came in with a 16-over-par 86 for a 36-hole total of 169, 14 strokes above making the cut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McGurn

by I'm never wrong Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:15 am

Maybe Rory is distracted. Apparently his wife is due to give birth to a daughter very soon.

by GPB Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:30 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Maybe Rory is distracted. Apparently his wife is due to give birth to a daughter very soon.

for the last 11 weeks?

by BlueCoverman Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:57 pm

GPB wrote:
I'm never wrong wrote:Maybe Rory is distracted. Apparently his wife is due to give birth to a daughter very soon.

for the last 11 weeks?

Yes, very probably he's just worked out how expensive daughters are! Laugh

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:27 pm

Pleasure to watch Johnson these past two weeks. Imperious

by JDizzle Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:04 am

Incredible putt from DJ on 18 to force a play off!

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:05 am

Absolutely superb - and an incredible back nine by Rahm too. Fantastic golf

by incontinentia Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:08 am

That was some putt by DJ!! These two guys in a playoff will be great.

by JDizzle Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:23 am

Crazy.

by JDizzle Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:25 am

Similar to the Thomas/Morikawa putts a few weeks back on 18 yo force a play off. Two monsters holed. An incredible weekend performance from Rahm!

by incontinentia Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:28 am

Bloody hell! Amazing by Rahm. Would've sucked if he lost after his error yesterday.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:28 am

Doesn’t get any better than that - what a Sunday of golf

by robopz Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:49 am

GPB wrote:
I'm never wrong wrote:Maybe Rory is distracted. Apparently his wife is due to give birth to a daughter very soon.

for the last 11 weeks?

Probably more like 38 weeks...

First 11... trying to revive the rabbit...
Next 16... learning to accept it
Last 11... OH S**T mode Shocked

by robopz Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:51 am

Ridiculous good golf today.... PGAT, LPGA, ET... Really good stuff

by pedro Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:44 am

robopz wrote: Really good stuff

I would say exceptional.

by incontinentia Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:04 am

pedro wrote:
robopz wrote: Really good stuff
I would say exceptional.

I'd like to see some data and bar charts on how it compares to other golf sundays Smile

by super_realist Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:09 am

pedro wrote:
robopz wrote: Really good stuff
I would say exceptional.

Quick, get it in the HOF

by Shotrock Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:49 pm

How can you not like DJ or Rahm this week as well? That said, I would add Rory to the mix if he didn't have Fatherhood on his mind at the moment. Hoping for a great tournament.

by GPB Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:16 pm

Shotrock wrote:How can you not like DJ or Rahm this week as well? That said, I would add Rory to the mix if he didn't have Fatherhood on his mind at the moment. Hoping for a great tournament.

Poppy Kennedy McIlroy was born Monday

not sure if "Poppy Kennedy" is Brit approved.

by super_realist Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm

Kennedy is a spud munchers surname so it's OK as a middle name I suppose.

Poppy is better than calling yourself Walmart or whatever Yanks call their kids.

by GPB Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:37 pm

Whew. That was close

Praise Jesus!!!

Poppy Kennedy is not a name of derision from alleged adults!

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