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Scotland 6N 2021 thread

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Post by Highland Shaun Mon 21 Dec 2020, 4:00 am

First topic message reminder :

As requested by RDW in the Scotland 2020 thread, I have taken on the job of starting the 2021 6N thread as I want to contribute to the forum as much as I can Smile.

First things first, here are the games and starting times for Scotland 6N 2021 matches :

Game 1: A daunting opener against reigning 6N and ANC champions, England (at a bogey round) on Feb 6th, KO: 1645hrs
Game 2: Our first home game of 6N 2021, against a team in transition or a rebuilding process, Wales on Feb 13th, KO: 1645hrs.
Game 3: Another daunting prospect, this time in the Stade De France, against the very entertaining French team, KO: 1500hrs on Feb 28th.
Game 4: Our second home match, this time against our bogey Celtic cousins Ireland on March 14th, KO: 1500hrs.
Game 5: We end our 2021 campaign at home against Italy, usually seen as a Wooden Spoon decider and one Italy always target as a winnable game, even though its been a few years since they have actually beaten us. This game is on March 20th with a KO time of 1415hrs.

I think most fans would be happy with 3 wins from 5 and Tbh, that is easily achievable if we play to our potential. I know that we have a poor record v Ireland but we know that records are breakable, we are at home so should be aiming for a win in that. I, as most Scotland fans no doubt, would LOVE a win at Twickenham to break the only never ending hoodoo left to beat but I think we all know how tough it will be. It may be good to get them first up but tbh, I don't see it make a difference unless England totally underestimate us or get massively hit by Covid etc.

I also think Gregor Townsend has to deliver positive results etc in order to win over the doubters (I am not one by the way, I am probably the only one on this forum that backs his new contract) once and for all, he will have a tough job picking his squad for the 6N, some players are and will, over the next few weeks, be putting up their hands regarding selection (Rory Hutchinson and Huw Jones fall into this category) and some will be hoping to retain their places on the back of good ANC performances (van der Walt and Duncy Weir for example).

So now comes the bit where you guys can contribute to the thread, who would you pick as the pool of players (is it 26 names?) for the 6N, have you got any left field choices that nobody would expect to see in it, Finlay Christie (as an example because I know a lot would love to see him in the Scotland blue) perhaps?

Hopefully this thread satisfies RDW Wink.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 11 Feb 2021, 10:59 pm

RDW wrote:Fun fact - Hogg's first cap was 9 years ago!
That does feel remarkable. It feels odd that Hoggy will turn 29 this year.

He's a very different player now to when he was a bit lighter and quicker but I'd argue a better one as well. His tactical kicking has come on leaps and bounds, his defence has improved and he still offers as much running threat most fullback anyway. I really hope he can get a test cap for the Lions whenever and however the SA tour goes ahead. Two tours without a cap is so unlucky and he's too good a player not to get that accolade.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 12 Feb 2021, 1:06 am

Well, assuming the Lions tour goes ahead, I can't see anyone else in the 15 jersey. The only player even slightly close might be Halfpenny.

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 12 Feb 2021, 8:48 am

Just watched the rugby pass with Dylan Hartley and Ryan Wilson and it is possible the most uncomfortable thing I've seen, Ryan Wilson trying to have "bants" with Hartley looking like he's chewing a wasp. The England players really really don't like Wilson!

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Post by EST Fri 12 Feb 2021, 9:35 am

NeilyBroon wrote:Just watched the rugby pass with Dylan Hartley and Ryan Wilson and it is possible the most uncomfortable thing I've seen, Ryan Wilson trying to have "bants" with Hartley looking like he's chewing a wasp. The England players really really don't like Wilson!

You can add the entire population of Munster to that list too!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri 12 Feb 2021, 11:56 am

EST wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Just watched the rugby pass with Dylan Hartley and Ryan Wilson and it is possible the most uncomfortable thing I've seen, Ryan Wilson trying to have "bants" with Hartley looking like he's chewing a wasp. The England players really really don't like Wilson!

You can add the entire population of Munster to that list too!

...and Edinburgh. He's the Mike Brown of Scottish rugby, only faster.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 12 Feb 2021, 12:47 pm

He is the shy retiring type. Disliked almost as much as Farrell....

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Post by BigGee Fri 12 Feb 2021, 1:14 pm

doctor_grey wrote:He is the shy retiring type. Disliked almost as much as Farrell....

Unless you are a Glasgow fan, we love him!

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Post by BigGee Fri 12 Feb 2021, 1:16 pm

I see Adam Hastings was running out with the Scotland team at the csptains run today

I would say he is nearly ready to play again on that basis. Maybe we will see him on the next Glasgow game.

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Post by jimbopip Fri 12 Feb 2021, 1:26 pm

BigGee wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:He is the shy retiring type. Disliked almost as much as Farrell....

Unless you are a Glasgow fan, we love him!
Batman has been a fantastic captain and player for Glasgow: every club needs a Batman.

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Post by George Carlin Fri 12 Feb 2021, 5:36 pm

jimbopip wrote:
BigGee wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:He is the shy retiring type.  Disliked almost as much as Farrell....

Unless you are a Glasgow fan, we love him!
Batman has been a fantastic captain and player for Glasgow: every club needs a Batman.
If only to make everyone feel like they've got their lives together.
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Fri 12 Feb 2021, 6:17 pm

jimbopip wrote:
BigGee wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:He is the shy retiring type.  Disliked almost as much as Farrell....

Unless you are a Glasgow fan, we love him!
Batman has been a fantastic captain and player for Glasgow: every club needs a Batman.

If only to fill the Al Kellock role. You presume he’s doing something, but no one is quite sure what

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Post by RDW Fri 12 Feb 2021, 9:37 pm

In other news Opta stats has produced a list of all time most elusive runners in the 6N. They've calculated the defenders beaten per carry ratio.

Now, think about all the wonderful runners that have appeared in the 6N era who could top the list - Shane Williams, Jason Robinson, BoD, maybe French backs.....

Nope

Kenny Logan!!!!

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri 12 Feb 2021, 10:09 pm

Most elusive in defence maybe???!!!

Still, he bagged Gabby, which in Moneyball parlance shows that he certainly has confidence...

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Post by Highland Shaun Sat 13 Feb 2021, 12:34 am

https://twitter.com/topofthemoonGW/status/1360313762608271366?s=19


100 players capped by Gregor in his time in charge :-O.

Whatever happened to the Kiwi lad Burleigh?

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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Feb 2021, 1:07 am

70 caps for Scotland and whenever I think of Kenny Logan my brain immediately goes to Scotland vs Fiji at the 2003 RWC when he was up against Caucau at his peak. Like a Lego man trying to stay grounded in a hurricane. Sport can be cruel.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:43 am

Mine would be France at Murrayfield in (I think) 1998 when he came up against Phillipe "the rocket" Bernat-Salles. Reminds me of Top Gun: "where did he go??" "Where did whoooo go?"

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Post by NeilyBroon Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:44 am

Highland Shaun wrote:https://twitter.com/topofthemoonGW/status/1360313762608271366?s=19


100 players capped by Gregor in his time in charge :-O.

Whatever happened to the Kiwi lad Burleigh?

I'd forgotten he even existed! He moved back to NZ and currently plays in the mitre cup according to wiki. Decent enough club player, dunno if he'd have had much impact at international.

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Post by RDW Sat 13 Feb 2021, 8:19 am

Burleigh was a rare highlight during a really grim period for Edinburgh. Not international class, but a great club player for Edinburgh.

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Post by NeilyBroon Sat 13 Feb 2021, 8:33 am

I'm sure we could come up with a forgotten men xv from the last few years:

1 Coosack
2 McArthur
3 Welsh
4 A Toolis (was struggling to think of second rows who slipped under the radar!)
5 ??
6 Hamilton
7 Smith
8 Ashe

9 Sam HC (could argue this one but he's definitely low in the pecking order of coaches)
10 Leonard (I'm sure someone can come up with better than that!)

11 Farndale
12 Burleigh
13 Bennett (debatable but I think as he should have more caps he's on this list)
14 Hoyland
15 Bryce

That looks like a standard Andy Robinson xv!

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Post by RDW Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:07 am

We'll I'm I'm the enviable position tonight of going to sleep and letting all the stress happen again!

I really don't care how we win as long as we do. I suspect it's going to be a complete arm wrestle and not much in it.

I'm definitely more nervous than last week - there was no expectation last week!

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Post by NeilyBroon Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:30 am

RDW wrote:We'll I'm I'm the enviable position tonight of going to sleep and letting all the stress happen again!

I really don't care how we win as long as we do. I suspect it's going to be a complete arm wrestle and not much in it.

I'm definitely more nervous than last week - there was no expectation last week!

Tbf I have no expectation this week, I've decided just to have faith that the boys have prepared well and ride the rollercoaster if we lose 😂

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Post by jimbopip Sat 13 Feb 2021, 12:17 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Most elusive in defence maybe???!!!

Still, he bagged Gabby, which in Moneyball parlance shows that he certainly has confidence...

That's a new metaphor to my jaded old mind. Do you have a DVD of her being bagged?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 13 Feb 2021, 12:26 pm

Have you moved onto DVDs Jimbo?? I had you down as a video cassette sort of chap...

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 13 Feb 2021, 12:28 pm

jimbopip wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Most elusive in defence maybe???!!!

Still, he bagged Gabby, which in Moneyball parlance shows that he certainly has confidence...

That's a new metaphor to my jaded old mind. Do you have a DVD of her being bagged?
I'm sure it's available on the Dark Web. Payment in Bitcoin.

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Post by NeilyBroon Sat 13 Feb 2021, 6:57 pm

Well that was painful. Guess we're out of the running again. Aim should be to lower penalty count, today it really told. I don't want to see Gary Graham play for us until he learns to actually listen to the ref. We badly missed Ritchie today. On a brighter note it was probably harris' best game, we scored some lovely tries. We probably would have won had it not been for the card.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:02 pm

Lang offered zero for me today, although I’ll admit Harris was decent (fell off in the 2nd half though but so did the entire team). Can’t blame Gregor for the red card or the discipline really, but you can for the selection. Lang-Harris doesn’t work end of, how many times do we need to seen that proven?

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:03 pm

Also Ali Price needs dropping for kicking the ball away at the end, utterly moronic

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Post by 123456789. Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:10 pm

Our depth got showed up a tad today. Gary Graham was not good enough - three or four levels below Ritchie. Same for Lang. We had a fourteen point lead and did not capitalise on it, if we'd kept our foot on the gas then we'd have been out of sight by the time Fagerson was sent off.

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Post by NeilyBroon Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:16 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Also Ali Price needs dropping for kicking the ball away at the end, utterly moronic

That was probably the defining moment, however he was pivotal in the first try and had several good moments

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Post by NeilyBroon Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:17 pm

Agreed on Lang though, hard to see what he offered really other than solid tackling

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:20 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Also Ali Price needs dropping for kicking the ball away at the end, utterly moronic

That was probably the defining moment, however he was pivotal in the first try and had several good moments

How often do we end up going for the Hail Mary play at the end of tight games, and how often do they come off? We seem to do it a lot, and I don’t recall them ever coming off. We got away with one last weekend with the terrible DG attempt, and still Price decides that a kick to nothing is the way to see out the game. It’s completely infuriating.

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Post by NeilyBroon Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:24 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Also Ali Price needs dropping for kicking the ball away at the end, utterly moronic

That was probably the defining moment, however he was pivotal in the first try and had several good moments

How often do we end up going for the Hail Mary play at the end of tight games, and how often do they come off? We seem to do it a lot, and I don’t recall them ever coming off. We got away with one last weekend with the terrible DG attempt, and still Price decides that a kick to nothing is the way to see out the game. It’s completely infuriating.

Problem is, who would we put in? Tbf I do wonder if Steele for the last 10 would have worked better as he seemed very controlled against England but I don't think he'd be good for the whole game, Sam HC is unavailable, George Horne is injured and Dobie has barely hit puberty.

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Post by tigertattie Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:25 pm

Lang was solid. Didn’t give away mindless Penalties and tackled well.

Our discipline let us down today. With England committing penalty suicide against us last week and the example of POM, it was utterly criminal that we gave away so many important penalties today.

Ali price had a moment of brilliance for Darcy’s try but he was woeful in the second half. That kick near the end was shambolic.

Both fagerson boys clearly got swept up in the hype of last week and both were really really poor today. Matt looks like last week was a flash in the pan and has gone back to his poor Scotland standards. Zander may have bought into his own hype too much. He was completely uncontrolled today. Didn’t scrum well and gave away many rush to the head penalties. He needs to just calm down.

Hey price out, get us a proper number 8 and we’re looking good. The rest of the team, inc Harris were good today with Watson, JG and Hogg utterly outstanding.

Oh well. Here’s to another shot in 30 years time
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:27 pm

It’s a fair question, and more of a mindset thing than a call to necessarily drop Price. Although isn’t SHC unavailable only through Gregor not liking him rather than being injured?

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:28 pm

Are Wales on the up, are they starting to turn there game around? 2 out of 2. could Wales be in for a grand slam this year, or am i reading to much in to it right now.

Rees zamit as some lovely skills, a real gem find for Wales,

Well played Wales you held out against a 14 man Scottish team.

Hard luck Scotland nearly pulled it off.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:29 pm

tigertattie wrote:Lang was solid. Didn’t give away mindless Penalties and tackled well.

It’s not enough tattie, it really isn’t. That’s 2 centres who fall into the solid category lining up alongside each other. You don’t get to the level we want to see from Scotland picking that. We saw last week what a difference an impact centre can have, it gives you something to play off. We have the players to replace Redpath with an impact player, but Toonie isn’t interested

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Post by BigGee Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:31 pm

We lost that game on the disallowed try

No complaints about the decision, but we lost our way for 5 mins afterwards and allowed them to score. If we had scored from that pressure, as we should have, there was clear daylight and we would not have been caught. The red card just made matters worse.

I agree that Gary Graham had a poor game, he gave away far to many penalties and looked as if he was trying to hard to impress, which is i guess what a lot of players do, if they feel this is their. To be subbed off after coming on as a sub is always a bit humiliating though, so presumably Toonie not impressed either.

International rugby is just different and not everyone who shines at club level, does well in it. he may or may not get another chance.

Lang did not do much wrong, but was not the creative spark that Redpath was last weekend. assuming he is n ot back for the next round, we might see Hutch come into the squad, or maybe Hastings will be fit and could play at 12.

matt fagerson did a lot of good stuff in this game as well, but was also fast and loose on the penalty count as well. It costs you at this level, we won last week because we did not give any way and probably lost this week because we gave away to many.

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Post by NeilyBroon Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:33 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:It’s a fair question, and more of a mindset thing than a call to necessarily drop Price. Although isn’t SHC unavailable only through Gregor not liking him rather than being injured?

Probably.

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Post by 123456789. Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:35 pm

I think we need to be smarter in the 22, we all get a boost when we have go for the maul in the corner but we had a lot of penalties in their 22 and we should have taken the points.

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Post by BigGee Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:35 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:It’s a fair question, and more of a mindset thing than a call to necessarily drop Price. Although isn’t SHC unavailable only through Gregor not liking him rather than being injured?

SHC seems to have fallen down the pecking order at Exeter as well now and is not getting game time there at the moment. Steele is the other form Scottish SH and is worth his place on the bench. Price is not getting dropped any time soon and other than that poor kick away at the end, played well enough. If Toonie wants to roll the dice, it will be to bring Dobie onto the bench, not bring back SHC. Its a real shame he did not get a start for Glasgow this week. A couple of good games could have convinced Toonie that he is ready.

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Post by tigertattie Sat 13 Feb 2021, 7:49 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Lang was solid. Didn’t give away mindless Penalties and tackled well.

It’s not enough tattie, it really isn’t. That’s 2 centres who fall into the solid category lining up alongside each other. You don’t get to the level we want to see from Scotland picking that. We saw last week what a difference an impact centre can have, it gives you something to play off. We have the players to replace Redpath with an impact player, but Toonie isn’t interested

I’m not saying he’s the future, I’m saying that none of today was his fault.

Today was a typical Scottish performance where we shot ourselves in the foot. Matt fagerson was taking pot shots at each toe all day and Zander blew the entire thing off.

Zander’s first penalty was madness too. You simply don’t bind on the opposite props arm. You learn that in colts rugby for crying out loud.

Poor pooor poor
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Post by NeilyBroon Sat 13 Feb 2021, 8:04 pm

BP wins for the rest of the 6Ns to snatch a victory? 😂

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Post by RDW Sat 13 Feb 2021, 9:04 pm

Well that's a difficult result to wake up to - sounds like everyone went through the ringer watching this one.

The rest of the tournament hasn't gotten any easier losing Zander either.

What's that phrase from trainspotting again....

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 13 Feb 2021, 9:22 pm

It's a tough watch, but some really strong performances today in a Scotland jersey. I thought Russell, D Graham and Hogg, in particular, were excellent. Watson was huge, again, and Jonny had another very busy game.

G Graham was too eager and lacked composure (same with M Fagerson at times, but he generally had another good game). We need Ritchie back. Lang is just a solid tackler and little else. Harris was OK, once again. He gave away an early penalty for being offside but had a couple of nice half efforts in the first half. I still think he's an empty shirt in attack, but replacing Lang with Taylor (either of them!), Redpath, Hutchinson or Scott is a priority.

We should be ok without Z Fagerson. Nel will be handy against the French pack, and Berghan isn't a bad sub. I personally don't agree with the red card.

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Post by tigertattie Sat 13 Feb 2021, 9:35 pm

I did fear after last week that folk were getting on that hype train. We still put too much clout behind winning against England than anyone else.

I said before the tournament that 3 wins would be a great result where many were saying it was an expectation.

If we don’t win any more games other than against Italy then this year will be just another one of our false dawns. A win over Ireland and Italy and we can still say progress is being made. Winning against France too will be a great result yet make this loss even more frustrating.

Scotland need to get that composure that we’re sorely lacking. Losing against a better team is far easier to take than when we shoot our selves in both feet and the testicles.
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Post by bsando Sat 13 Feb 2021, 10:09 pm

BigGee wrote:We lost that game on the disallowed try

No complaints about the decision, but we lost our way for 5 mins afterwards and allowed them to score. If we had scored from that pressure, as we should have, there was clear daylight and we would not have been caught. The red card just made matters worse.

I agree that Gary Graham had a poor game, he gave away far to many penalties and looked as if he was trying to hard to impress, which is i guess what a lot of players do, if they feel this is their. To be subbed off after coming on as a sub is always a bit humiliating though, so presumably Toonie not impressed either.

International rugby is just different and not everyone who shines at club level, does well in it. he may or may not get another chance.

Lang did not do much wrong, but was not the creative spark  that Redpath was last weekend. assuming he is n ot back for the next round, we might see Hutch come into the squad, or maybe Hastings will be fit and could play at 12.

matt fagerson did a lot of good stuff in this game as well, but was also fast and loose on the penalty count as well. It costs you at this level, we won last week because we did not give any way and probably lost this week because we gave away to many.

Well said Big Gee, the composure dropped in the second half and I think not taking the three hurt Scotland a few times. Laidlaw would have been furious watching from the comfort of his new home in Ichikawa, Japan. I wish he was there at times today.

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Post by 123456789. Sat 13 Feb 2021, 10:10 pm

I’m sorry to disagree, I know we’re Scotland and we shouldn’t expect too much but we’ve got a really really good group of players here and they should achieve something special.
That’s why it’s so frustrating. The red card, by the letter of the law, is correct. As far as I’m aware that law did not change in the first 50 minutes of the game. ZF was aware of them.
I’m ready to accept that because rugby is a contact sport and timing matters more than intent in the law book.
What’s really frustrating and hurting me tonight, is Gary Graham. I was born in England to Scottish family. I largely grew up in a Scottish expat community in England. A large proportion of my childhood friends have Home Counties accents yet consider themselves proud Scotsmen.
Gary Graham gave it the bigg’un two years back when Proud Eddie asked him to train with England about how he felt more English than Scottish. Having talked for England he should have shown up for Scotland and he categorically didn’t.

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Post by bsando Sat 13 Feb 2021, 10:18 pm

So infuriating being 17 - 8 up with an easy shot at goal to then end up 17 - 15 literally three minutes later. They should have taken the points. I feel like Scotland got sucked into the way Wales wanted to play it at that point, fast and loose. I'm sure in the review they'll all be kicking themselves.

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Post by bsando Sat 13 Feb 2021, 10:30 pm

I just looked back at the last play. LRZ fell over and it was an open goal if DVDM hadn't been ankle tapped.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 13 Feb 2021, 10:43 pm

I know, Duhan has the beating of him by cutting inside. Unfortunately it was the cutting inside that gave Watkins the tap opportunity.

Fine fine margins.

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