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Scotland 6N 2021 thread

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Post by Highland Shaun Mon 21 Dec 2020, 4:00 am

First topic message reminder :

As requested by RDW in the Scotland 2020 thread, I have taken on the job of starting the 2021 6N thread as I want to contribute to the forum as much as I can Smile.

First things first, here are the games and starting times for Scotland 6N 2021 matches :

Game 1: A daunting opener against reigning 6N and ANC champions, England (at a bogey round) on Feb 6th, KO: 1645hrs
Game 2: Our first home game of 6N 2021, against a team in transition or a rebuilding process, Wales on Feb 13th, KO: 1645hrs.
Game 3: Another daunting prospect, this time in the Stade De France, against the very entertaining French team, KO: 1500hrs on Feb 28th.
Game 4: Our second home match, this time against our bogey Celtic cousins Ireland on March 14th, KO: 1500hrs.
Game 5: We end our 2021 campaign at home against Italy, usually seen as a Wooden Spoon decider and one Italy always target as a winnable game, even though its been a few years since they have actually beaten us. This game is on March 20th with a KO time of 1415hrs.

I think most fans would be happy with 3 wins from 5 and Tbh, that is easily achievable if we play to our potential. I know that we have a poor record v Ireland but we know that records are breakable, we are at home so should be aiming for a win in that. I, as most Scotland fans no doubt, would LOVE a win at Twickenham to break the only never ending hoodoo left to beat but I think we all know how tough it will be. It may be good to get them first up but tbh, I don't see it make a difference unless England totally underestimate us or get massively hit by Covid etc.

I also think Gregor Townsend has to deliver positive results etc in order to win over the doubters (I am not one by the way, I am probably the only one on this forum that backs his new contract) once and for all, he will have a tough job picking his squad for the 6N, some players are and will, over the next few weeks, be putting up their hands regarding selection (Rory Hutchinson and Huw Jones fall into this category) and some will be hoping to retain their places on the back of good ANC performances (van der Walt and Duncy Weir for example).

So now comes the bit where you guys can contribute to the thread, who would you pick as the pool of players (is it 26 names?) for the 6N, have you got any left field choices that nobody would expect to see in it, Finlay Christie (as an example because I know a lot would love to see him in the Scotland blue) perhaps?

Hopefully this thread satisfies RDW Wink.

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Post by bsando Thu 04 Mar 2021, 2:49 pm

Scotland 6N 2021 thread  - Page 14 France10

I'm on furlough and thought I'd make a meme Very Happy

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Post by tigertattie Thu 04 Mar 2021, 4:01 pm

Hows furlough treating ya?

My company keep furloughing eveyone except me. I dont know if I'm lucky or unlucky!
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Post by bsando Thu 04 Mar 2021, 4:20 pm

Probably unlucky I'd say haha. It's been a bit up and down to be fair. Overall it's been positive, I've definitely enjoyed the time to think things over and plan our move to Scotland. I'd already been doing that prior to lockdown but it accelerated everything quite nicely. I'll hop off furlough once we're setup next month so I'll probably be on here lot less by then doing some actual work Wink I'm opening a little cafe.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Thu 04 Mar 2021, 4:22 pm

RDW wrote:I wonder if part of the reason the Prem clubs have accepted it is because it means they can select everyone this weekend, instead of deciding to let players have a rest week following a brutal France game which was meant to have happened this weekend.

It does just kick the can down the road however as they will be coming back to their clubs following 3 weeks in a row of 6N rugby.

What could be an extra challenge is that we will now have back to back 6 day lead ins between games. Presumably common sense will prevail with a bit of squad rotation for Italy in the middle game, or possibly just give our key players the first half?

We just need to be careful with player management for this block of games.

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Post by jimbopip Thu 04 Mar 2021, 4:37 pm

Lads, I don't want to pee on anyone's chips but there is nothing on the SRU website about the game being rescheduled and the BBC say that the Prem clubs are saying they may agree to releasing players. So that's may as in it would be up to each club to decide, or the clubs won't be penalised one way or the other. The same goes for the T14 clubs: the FFR cannot, as far as I can see, compel the clubs to release players and the clubs are saying they may release them. By the same token Karen Gillan MAY shin up the drain pipe to tap on my bedroom window tonight with a bottle of champagne and two steak pie suppers in her handbag. Then again she MAY not.

On a more sensible note;
how long before we see Gregor Brown-Ally Miller-Rory Darge as the back row for Scotland? Now that the last two have given up being professional tackle bag holders and decided to join a rugby club they should have a decent chance of becoming internationals. Brown , of course, replaced the Giant Red Crayon at 6 against the Ladyboys and looked to the manor born.

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Post by BigGee Thu 04 Mar 2021, 5:01 pm

bsando wrote:Probably unlucky I'd say haha. It's been a bit up and down to be fair. Overall it's been positive, I've definitely enjoyed the time to think things over and plan our move to Scotland. I'd already been doing that prior to lockdown but it accelerated everything quite nicely. I'll hop off furlough once we're setup next month so I'll probably be on here lot less by then doing some actual work Wink I'm opening a little cafe.

Wherabouts are you stting up this venture bsando?

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Post by bsando Thu 04 Mar 2021, 6:09 pm

BigGee wrote:
bsando wrote:Probably unlucky I'd say haha. It's been a bit up and down to be fair. Overall it's been positive, I've definitely enjoyed the time to think things over and plan our move to Scotland. I'd already been doing that prior to lockdown but it accelerated everything quite nicely. I'll hop off furlough once we're setup next month so I'll probably be on here lot less by then doing some actual work Wink I'm opening a little cafe.

Wherabouts are you stting up this venture bsando?

Near where my family live, it's a pretty rural part of Scotland so we're looking to put down some roots. I'll definitely post some photos once I'm up and running, I'm a bit reluctant to shout about it too much whilst I'm still waiting for pieces to fall into place Smile But I want to try and get people to visit once we're good to go.


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Post by jimbopip Thu 04 Mar 2021, 6:21 pm

Would it be handy for Kiltarlity?

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Post by R!skysports Thu 04 Mar 2021, 7:42 pm

Just going to whisper this on this thread

The saddest thing about this 6 nations is that the lions selection now will be based on a team that was the worst in 3 matches, but through crook and hook won.....

Going to be a depressing time

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 05 Mar 2021, 8:42 am

Sigh..... how boring risky.

Anyway, I see Adam Hastings has been banned, so will miss the rest of the 6N. Very unfortunate for him, as I thought his red card was very harsh.

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 05 Mar 2021, 8:48 am

LordDowlais wrote:Sigh..... how boring risky.

Anyway, I see Adam Hastings has been banned, so will miss the rest of the 6N. Very unfortunate for him, as I thought his red card was very harsh.

I thought that at first glance but in retrospect it's probably fair, you literally have to be doing a back flip to get your legs that high.

It was pretty careless considering other players go for high ball without swinging their legs about like a giraffe's neck, I'd say the red card stands. He was only unlucky in the sense that someone ran into his boot.
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Post by bsando Fri 05 Mar 2021, 8:51 am

I was getting a similar feeling this morning, did you read the article about Gatland saying he's not worried about Saracens players lack of game time? I'd been expecting to hear that this would be a reinvigorated tour as all the four home nations are much more equal this year.

I think having Townsend involved will help Scotland gain better representation. Gatland seems like he has his team all worked out in his head though so I'm not getting too optimistic.

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Post by R!skysports Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:17 am

LordDowlais wrote:Sigh..... how boring risky.

Anyway, I see Adam Hastings has been banned, so will miss the rest of the 6N. Very unfortunate for him, as I thought his red card was very harsh.

Yes, Boring, as it will likely be history repeating itself again, and again and again

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:21 am

R!skysports wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Sigh..... how boring risky.

Anyway, I see Adam Hastings has been banned, so will miss the rest of the 6N. Very unfortunate for him, as I thought his red card was very harsh.

Yes, Boring, as it will likely be history repeating itself again, and again and again

So what we can take from that? Scotland don't have enough good players? At the end of the day results count.

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:35 am

I think 5-7 players would probably be a fairer representation of where Scotland are than our historic token two. For me:
J Gray
F Russell
Hogg
Watson
VdM

And two bolters
Turner (for me the best 6ns hooker currently)
Harris (hear me out here, he's perfect for gatland, has had a very decent and quietly effective tournament, plus if Toonie is on staff he'll definitely push for his inclusion).
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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:38 am

NeilyBroon wrote:I think 5-7 players would probably be a fairer representation of where Scotland are. For me:
J Gray
F Russell
Hogg
Watson
VdM

And two bolters
Turner (for me the best 6ns hooker currently)
Harris (hear me out here, he's perfect for gatland, has had a very decent and quietly effective tournament, plus if Toonie is on staff he'll definitely push for his inclusion).

I agree with all those. Not sure about Turner, but Harris from what I've seen, yes he could be a tourist but perhaps not a test player. I'd throw Cummings into the mix too. For what it's worth I can't see myself picking more than 7 or 8 Wales players!

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Post by Oakdene Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:39 am

NeilyBroon wrote:I think 5-7 players would probably be a fairer representation of where Scotland are than our historic token two. For me:
J Gray
F Russell
Hogg
Watson
VdM

And two bolters
Turner (for me the best 6ns hooker currently)
Harris (hear me out here, he's perfect for gatland, has had a very decent and quietly effective tournament, plus if Toonie is on staff he'll definitely push for his inclusion).

I'm always impressed with your man Ritchie.

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:41 am

Of course I didn't include Sutherland in that list but his form seems to have dropped slightly. Fagerson has been screwed by the red card so isn't included on those grounds. Gatland could of course view it differently.
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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:42 am

Oakdene wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:I think 5-7 players would probably be a fairer representation of where Scotland are than our historic token two. For me:
J Gray
F Russell
Hogg
Watson
VdM

And two bolters
Turner (for me the best 6ns hooker currently)
Harris (hear me out here, he's perfect for gatland, has had a very decent and quietly effective tournament, plus if Toonie is on staff he'll definitely push for his inclusion).

I'm always impressed with your man Ritchie.

So are we, but he's been a bit battered by injury. Could be another bolter though yes.
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Post by The Oracle Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:00 am

One thing I've noticed - whenever Gatland has been the head coach it's always 'Gatland's squad' or 'Gatland's selections', but previous non-Gatland tours people usually talk about 'Lions Selectors', 'impressing the selectors', etc. I don't think anything has changed in recent tours! It's not some dictatorship now. As far as I know there is still a group of selectors as it was under McGeechan, Woodward, et al.
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Post by Oakdene Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:13 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:I think 5-7 players would probably be a fairer representation of where Scotland are than our historic token two. For me:
J Gray
F Russell
Hogg
Watson
VdM

And two bolters
Turner (for me the best 6ns hooker currently)
Harris (hear me out here, he's perfect for gatland, has had a very decent and quietly effective tournament, plus if Toonie is on staff he'll definitely push for his inclusion).

I'm always impressed with your man Ritchie.

So are we, but he's been a bit battered by injury. Could be another bolter though yes.

Still only young mind

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Post by R!skysports Fri 05 Mar 2021, 1:09 pm

The Oracle wrote:One thing I've noticed - whenever Gatland has been the head coach it's always 'Gatland's squad' or 'Gatland's selections', but previous non-Gatland tours people usually talk about 'Lions Selectors', 'impressing the selectors', etc.  I don't think anything has changed in recent tours!  It's not some dictatorship now.  As far as I know there is still a group of selectors as it was under McGeechan, Woodward, et al.

Well Woodwards Lions was Woodwards squad.

It tends to be called that when the coach selects favour their own team rather than have a balanced and fair selection process - which is usually to the detriment of the squad and performances..

There....that fuse is lit :-) Run

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Post by chris_501 Fri 05 Mar 2021, 1:11 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:I think 5-7 players would probably be a fairer representation of where Scotland are than our historic token two. For me:
J Gray
F Russell
Hogg
Watson
VdM

And two bolters
Turner (for me the best 6ns hooker currently)
Harris (hear me out here, he's perfect for gatland, has had a very decent and quietly effective tournament, plus if Toonie is on staff he'll definitely push for his inclusion).

Watson is unlucky that he is playing in a position against arguably two of the best players eligible over the last couple of years in Tipuric and Curry. Add in Navidi's ability to play anywhere in the back row and I would start to doubt his selection.

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Post by NeilyBroon Fri 05 Mar 2021, 1:59 pm

chris_501 wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:I think 5-7 players would probably be a fairer representation of where Scotland are than our historic token two. For me:
J Gray
F Russell
Hogg
Watson
VdM

And two bolters
Turner (for me the best 6ns hooker currently)
Harris (hear me out here, he's perfect for gatland, has had a very decent and quietly effective tournament, plus if Toonie is on staff he'll definitely push for his inclusion).

Watson is unlucky that he is playing in a position against arguably two of the best players eligible over the last couple of years in Tipuric and Curry. Add in Navidi's ability to play anywhere in the back row and I would start to doubt his selection.

Watson completely outplayed curry at Twickenham which I think should count for something. With some of the options from other nations he could form part of a formidable backrow. In fact he could play alongside tipuric in a similar arrangement to what he has with Ritchie who is primarily an openside. Add falateau or CJ Stander into the mix and you have a very difficult backrow to deal with.
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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 05 Mar 2021, 2:10 pm

Tipuric, Navidi, Curry, Underhill, VDF (is he injured again) - it's a strong list. If Watson also goes then I expect Curry and Navidi will be blindside flankers or at 8. I think Watson should go anyway, he's one of the stronger candidates and Ireland aren't helped by not having any natural 7's besides VDF.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Fri 05 Mar 2021, 7:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Sigh..... how boring risky.

I agree Lions selection debates are incredibly boring, but for some reason people just insist on getting into them ad nauseam! Very Happy

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:07 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Sigh..... how boring risky.

I agree Lions selection debates are incredibly boring, but for some reason people just insist on getting into them ad nauseam! Very Happy  
Think if the tour does not go ahead this year. We get to have the same debates all over again.

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:35 pm

Out of all the Scotland players, Watson is the one I'd love to see most on the tour. He's been absolutely outstanding for the last few years. Problem is as discussed he's got a hell of a lot of competition, who have also been outstanding. His issue also is he only covers one position.

I really, really hope he goes though.

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Post by whatahitson Sat 06 Mar 2021, 2:19 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:I think 5-7 players would probably be a fairer representation of where Scotland are than our historic token two. For me:
J Gray
F Russell
Hogg
Watson
VdM

Sutherland and Fagerson are close IMO. Genge and Marler have played (or not played) their way out of the squad. Fagerson is an old fashioned tight head which will be needed against South Africa's pack to balance out Sinckler. Ali Price has a chance as well.

Hogg is the only guaranteed Scot at the moment. There's just so much competition in every other position. I think more than 10 English players have played themselves out of the tour in the last 4 weeks so there's room for more Scots but if Wales win the six nations you can't argue if Navidi goes ahead of Ritchie for instance.

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Post by BigGee Sat 06 Mar 2021, 6:24 pm

Exeter beat a spirited Bath this afternoon with Gray getting a try and Sam Skinner two.

Hard to argue that Skinner should not be in the squad now ahead of Craig and Gilchrist, though as Toonie held him back from Edinburgh this week, it seems unlikley that he won't be in.

With Ritchie Gray being doubtful, there may be some movement on the second row front in any case.

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Post by RDW Sat 06 Mar 2021, 9:29 pm

Gray must have scored more tries this season than his entire career with Glasgow. This move has been fantastic for him.

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Post by BigGee Sat 06 Mar 2021, 9:46 pm

Hoggy did pick up a knock towatds the end as well but got up and carried on and was subbed a few mins later

Hopefully nothing serious

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Post by flyhalffactory Sun 07 Mar 2021, 8:12 pm

I'm a big Skinner fan, I think he is an excellent BSF, even better at 6 than at lock, so I was wondering why Gregor left him out of the 6Ns squad. Didn't realise it was because of covid.

https://www.devonlive.com/sport/rugby/rugby-news/gregor-townsend-explains-exeter-chiefs-4929270

"Exeter Chiefs’ duo Sam Skinner and Sam Hidalgo-Clyne have missed out on selection for the 2021 Guinness Six Nations due to Covid protocols Scotland head coach Gregor Townsend has revealed.

Townsend explained that any 50/50 calls with players based outside of Scotland’s two Pro14 clubs went against exiles this time round as each national side looks to create Covid secure bubbles to ensure the tournament is given the best possible chance of being completed."

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Post by bsando Mon 08 Mar 2021, 7:25 am

Sensible decision making

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Post by jimbopip Mon 08 Mar 2021, 7:45 am

Interesting timing! Toonie chooses to , casually, tell the rugby world that Scotland left some very good players out of their 6Nations squad rather than risk compromising their covid secure bubble. Oh, and how is the France investigation proceeding?

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Post by RDW Mon 08 Mar 2021, 8:23 am

To be fair that was from the end of January...

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Post by tigertattie Mon 08 Mar 2021, 8:45 am

RDW wrote:To be fair that was from the end of January...

Toonie is also clairvoyant
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Post by jimbopip Mon 08 Mar 2021, 9:54 am

Clairvoyant??? Them's a lot of syllables for a Monday morning. For an ex prop them's a lot of syllables for any time.
France game must be a 28-0 (a) they played far too fast and loose with the rules (b) it is almost impossible to see a scenario where Scotland are not disadvantaged.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 08 Mar 2021, 11:01 am

If Premiership clubs do release players, it would not really be a disadvantage for Scotland to play after the Italy game.

For the Scottish clubs however, we are on the boundary of what is likely the Champions Cup cutoff and need to win out to make sure of finishing third (Glasgow) or fourth (Edinburgh).

It should be a 28-0 forfeit but it may impact TV money and such so can see them trying to get the game to go ahead.

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Post by tigertattie Mon 08 Mar 2021, 12:10 pm

jimbopip wrote:Clairvoyant??? Them's a lot of syllables for a Monday morning.  For an ex prop them's a lot of syllables for any time.
France game must be a 28-0 (a) they played far too fast and loose with the rules (b) it is almost impossible to see a scenario where Scotland are not disadvantaged.

Me know big words

Me used to be 2nd row and No 8

Me clever

Anyhoo. France need to be punished but what does handing us a 28-0 win do? Hee haw! Had we beaten the sheep botherers then yes, it would have been a handy win to be given (I'd still not have wanted it though). The best thing for Scotland would be to play the game and win. Handing us a "moral" victory on paper would jsut be a box ticking excercise and serve no purpose other that to potentially hand the 6Ns title to the red team!
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Post by flyhalffactory Mon 08 Mar 2021, 1:11 pm

tigertattie wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Clairvoyant??? Them's a lot of syllables for a Monday morning.  For an ex prop them's a lot of syllables for any time.
France game must be a 28-0 (a) they played far too fast and loose with the rules (b) it is almost impossible to see a scenario where Scotland are not disadvantaged.

Me know big words

Me used to be 2nd row and No 8

Me clever

Anyhoo. France need to be punished but what does handing us a 28-0 win do? Hee haw! Had we beaten the sheep botherers then yes, it would have been a handy win to be given (I'd still not have wanted it though). The best thing for Scotland would be to play the game and win. Handing us a "moral" victory on paper would jsut be a box ticking excercise and serve no purpose other that to potentially hand the 6Ns title to the red team!

I don't want a paper 5 pointer, it'll just be another thing thing for our cousins to moan about, however if we manage to get a BP win against Ireland, followed by another against Italy....that'll be us on 20 pts if they do award it, just need Fra to put one over Wales Hero

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Post by bsando Mon 08 Mar 2021, 1:38 pm

Scotland 6N 2021 thread  - Page 14 Scot_s10

Scotland squad is up for last two weeks. Rufus MacLean added to the backs which is great to see. I wonder what sort of team we'll see for Ireland?

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Post by BigGee Mon 08 Mar 2021, 1:50 pm

Sam Skinner gets called into the Scotland squad. Not surprising as he has been playing well for Exeter, including a brace of tries this weekend against Bath.

Mclean and Haining also come in to the squad.

Stewart, Rae, Gray (who you would assume was out for the head knock), Thompson and Graham all drop out as well.

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Post by NeilyBroon Mon 08 Mar 2021, 1:55 pm

Can't imagine it'll be drastically different. Expect Johnson will come in at centre unless Toonie liked the sound beating that Sarries got from the Cornish pirates. I'd say it'll look like:

Sutherland/Kebble
Turner
Nel
Cummings
Gray J
Ritchie
Watson
Fagerson

Price
Russell

VdM
Johnson
Harris
Maitland possibly coming in for Graham
Hogg (c)

Subs
Cherry
Kebble/Sutherland (Bhatti)
Berghan
Skinner
Haining
Dobie (toonies joker)
VdW (injury dependent, otherwise Lang)
Shug


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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 08 Mar 2021, 2:12 pm

No third TH is a risk though McCallum and Rae are not setting the heather alight. In a way, Z Fagerson indicating that he is heading abroad in a year or two and Nel getting closer to 40 might force us to blood some young academy props benefitting Scotland.

S Johnson has to be the man at 12 as he is a solid constant next to Russell (even Harris is looking better with Russell as the playmaker). Not sure on why Hutchinson is not in there instead of D Taylor or Lang but can only hope we see him get opportunities during the summer tour when more opportunities should be available along with Redpath, S Johnson, H Jones, Bennett, Lang, D Taylor, Scott....how long is the summer tour again?

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Post by NeilyBroon Mon 08 Mar 2021, 2:34 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:No third TH is a risk though McCallum and Rae are not setting the heather alight. In a way, Z Fagerson indicating that he is heading abroad in a year or two and Nel getting closer to 40 might force us to blood some young academy props benefitting Scotland.

S Johnson has to be the man at 12 as he is a solid constant next to Russell (even Harris is looking better with Russell as the playmaker). Not sure on why Hutchinson is not in there instead of D Taylor or Lang but can only hope we see him get opportunities during the summer tour when more opportunities should be available along with Redpath, S Johnson, H Jones, Bennett, Lang, D Taylor, Scott....how long is the summer tour again?

I wouldn't waste more opportunities on Lang, he'd be right down the bottom of that list. For someone who used to play fly half before 12 I don't know how he's so devoid of attacking ideas. It reminds me of the days of Andy Henderson and Graeme Morrison.
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Post by BigGee Mon 08 Mar 2021, 3:06 pm

Sam Johnson has been playing a lot better the past few games as he has found his fitness and form, hard to see him not being picked at 12.

I don't honestly think we lose a lot, if anything, with Skinner coming in for Gray. Both Cummings and Gray j can go a full 80 mins as well, so it will give us a bit more options if he covers BS as well as the row.

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Post by flyhalffactory Mon 08 Mar 2021, 3:24 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Can't imagine it'll be drastically different. Expect Johnson will come in at centre unless Toonie liked the sound beating that Sarries got from the Cornish pirates. I'd say it'll look like:

Sutherland/Kebble
Turner
Nel
Cummings
Gray J
Ritchie
Watson
Fagerson

Price
Russell

VdM
Johnson
Harris
Maitland possibly coming in for Graham
Hogg (c)

Subs
Cherry
Kebble/Sutherland (Bhatti)
Berghan
Skinner
Haining
Dobie (toonies joker)
VdW (injury dependent, otherwise Lang)
Shug


I'd like to find a spot for Darcy Graham at least on the bench, but to be honest Maitland covers Wing/FB from the start and Shug covers Centre/FB from the bench, so that's kinda spot on.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Mon 08 Mar 2021, 5:25 pm

I wonder if Toonie will pick a 6/2 split on the bench?
Irelands attritional forward play may merit it?

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Post by Highland Shaun Mon 08 Mar 2021, 7:18 pm

I take it Bayliss hasn't dropped out completely, it only says who has come in, not the players released back to their clubs?

Bayliiss only failed a HIA last week so could likely still be in contention for tge final 2 games, if he passes the HIA eventually?

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