2021 - 5 who will, 5 who won't

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Welcome to 2021 - here's hoping it will be a much better year for all, and Boxing will be back - with crowds! Time to do the usual who will/who won't predictions.

5 who will:

1. Ryan Garcia. Genuinely believe that this kid has it all. Yes there's a lot of hype but he's proved it with every obstacle thrown at him. I think he will walk through Luke Campbell.

2. Saul "Canelo" Alvarez. Continues to beat all in front of him. Picks up the IBF belt by practically decapitating Caleb Plant.

3. Tim Tszyu. Gets his WBO shot late in the year and obliterates Teixeira. Definitely a chip off the old block. Wants to set up a unification bout with Jermell Charlo.

4. Josh Taylor. Gets his meaningful 4 belt fight against Ramirez and continues to impress, beating him in a lopsided UD. Hopes for a huge fight against Teofimo Lopez in 2022.

5. Artur Beterbiev continues to chase belts in the Light Heavyweight division and goes after Bivol. Doesn't get him, but knocks out mandatory Fanlong Meng and Deines in brutal fashion. Edit: once he's recovered from Covid!!

5 who wont

1. Andy Ruiz Jr. Has had his moment of glory. Has a couple of fights at close to 280lbs against no-hope opposition. Nobody cares. His trainer leaves him because Fat Andy won't train.

2. Billy Joe Saunders. Makes another stupid video in the build up to a potential Canelo fight - he then doesn't get the fight.

3. Gennadiy Golovkin. Continues to rack up meaningless IBF contender defences. Charlo and Canelo are not interested.

4. Carl Frampton. Quickly realises that he's out of his depth against Jamel Herring and his corner retire him after 8 rounds. Announces his retirement shortly afterwards.

5. Gervonta Davis. On the cusp of landing a superfight against Lopez, gets arrested for starting a brawl outside a bar. Legal issues keep him out of the ring for several months.

Herman Jaeger wrote:Didn’t see it but virtually everyone saying Charlo lost. PBC and Al Haymon are a scam

In a fight most are saying Castano clearly won, one judge scored it 117-111, no wonder so many are switching to UFC

His little place in history(first Argentinian to be undisputed in four belt era) snatched away from him. Just a business USA boxing

Broner won only about four rounds his last fight too

Charlo definitely lost. Not a particularly close fight. I had 117-112 to Castano which seems more or less the going rate from the few other fan cards I've seen. I could maybe see it a little narrower if you were being kind to Charlo, but no way it was close enough to be a draw. Nelson Vazquez's 117-111 card in favour of Charlo should see him barred from any further judging duties, or at least while an investigation into his scoring is conducted....Of course, though, neither of these things will happen.

Even though Weisfeld did score it to Castano by a single round, it looks to me like he'd have done anything to score it for Charlo if he could have as well, because he gave Charlo a 10-8 round in the tenth in a desperate attempt to try and get the hometown boy back in front, which was in no way deserved. Yeah, it was a good Charlo round that he definitely won, and he wobbled Castano in it, but it was nowhere near dominant enough to warrant a 10-8.

Castano got hosed.

Imagine any other sport where they say we’re not competing against them because they’re too good for us

This is now the norm in boxing

Contenders calling themselves champions

You’re not a champion till you fight and beat other champions

If you hold a belt you’re just a contender

And you can carry on contending against other contenders in your division and make it look like championship fights

This is boxing in the four belt era

Andrade wants to fight Charlo and prove he’s a champion

Charlo won’t fight him because Charlo is just a contender and knows Andrade is a champion and too good for him

This is boxing today

It’s dying and it’s some of the people who are running it who are killing it. It’s becoming a turn off. Can’t get the fights we want to see, terrible decisions, bent refs who break up the action too quick

So the question is, how can boxing get ‘champions’ to fight other champions and rid the sport of contenders masquerading as champions?

Charlo on a million and a half a fight fighting contenders so it’s not going to be easy. Obviously I’m talking about the middleweight who just boxed Montiel

Well one tiny prayer may soon be answered, Herman, as it looks like Crawford might actually be about to fight someone with a pulse at Welterweight for a change. The WBO have 'enforced' Porter as his mandatory and Arum seems to be indicating that some kind of negotiations are under way.

I don't believe anything which comes out of Crawford's (and by extension in that case, Arum's) mouth these days, mind you, so we should probably brace ourselves for more disappointment. But Lordy, it would be good to see Crawford in there with someone with a decent record at 147 and who won't just come to make up the numbers at long last. Porter has his limitations and will probably lose more than he wins against the very best, but he's a prime Hearns compared to what Crawford has been feasting on these past few years.

On his way to ruining the sport Al Haymon, total cancer:

https://youtu.be/v60ttxrQqEE

Good little card tonight, two quite interesting fights Wardley/Webb and GalahadDickens and of course you’ve got the Savage. Webb’s a nice guy and can punch though this will be the first time I seen him fight but has Wardley just got that little bit more about him and Dickens is a far better fighter than the last time they boxed. Believe it or not I only seen Dickens against Rigondeaux but that’s enough to tell me this is going to be a good fight, a good boxing match. Good fight last week McCarthy and CBS, razor thin rematch definitely needed

I see the talented slick Galahad easily beat the brave but ordinary Dickens in their 50/50....The same bracket of 50/50 as Joshua v Usyk....I'm sure the fact Usyk struggled with perennial loser Derek won't give the sheep food for thought.

As for Galahad he looked worthy of a title shot....As for Dickens the IBF should be ashamed of his lofty position.

Heaven help us if he'd fought Sanchez or Azumah years ago..

Clinic from Galahad, he believes he can dominate the division and he might be right. Going to get the big fights now and he could hold his own with any of them. Would be good to see a boxer dominating a division for a change

Not going to happen they’re friends, shame. Maybe one for the future that one. Not the best of timing right now though it’s probably the natural progression for both of them:

https://youtu.be/rKpGg6hEOgo

Styles make fights Trussman, just because Usyk struggled with Chisora doesn’t mean he can’t hold his own against Joshua? In fact he may find Joshua easier

I hope if he does fight Regis it won’t be a catchweight, that would spoil it a little for me and picks Manny to beat Spence:

https://youtu.be/gt3uTFRHF2k

Well deserved for Galahad, had the beating of Warrington but didn't get the decision.

Case for a draw but no case for a Warrington win

Errol Spence Jr has withdrawn from his ‘super fight’ with legend Manny Pacquiao with a torn retina.
Pacquiao will face Cuban Yordenis Ugas instead. WBA welterweight bout - title which Pacquiao previously held.

That’s an enormous shame, everyone was looking forward to finding out how good, or not, Spence actually is. That fight might now never happen

It’s a pity Floyd won’t put his big boy pants on and give a fully fit Pacquaio the rematch

But he’s all about control Mayweather and I don’t think he’d fight Manny again even for five hundred million

44 year old, six years retired Floyd Mayweather? The one who comprehensively beat Pacquiao back in 2015, that Floyd Mayweather?

Pardon me for daring not to show reverence to your cherry picking/ref bribing idol

Do we know any more about this eye injury?

Can you spar and be unaware that you have a detached retina?

Can you have a detached retina and not feel any pain/discomfort?

The usual stuff from you then Herman, banging on about someone long retired. It seems to really irritate you that he went 50-0, oh well keep the YouTube links coming.

Actually re-watched the Floyd-Manny fight not too long ago, and found myself thinking it was closer than I remembered, albeit I still agree that Mayweather did win it. Neither of them looked like great fighters in there, though. Floyd did a lot of holding and spoiling, especially in the earlier rounds, and Manny looked a bit clumsy and unable to pull the trigger at times. A very dull spectacle and one which probably left quite a lot of casual fans who just dropped in to see the 'biggest fight ever!' not too fussed about ever giving boxing a serious go again.

I think it's interesting that as the years roll on and that very forgettable fight understandably fades into distant memory, the idea of Pacquiao rating as the greater of the pair is starting to gather momentum amongst a lot of fans from what I've seen. A few years back most (even if they did so grudgingly) seemed to side with Mayweather, but I get the impression the tide may be turning slightly these days. More and more seem to be agreeing that Mayweather's lasting influence on the sport has been somewhat negative, and are won over by the fact that Pacquiao, while he probably had a few more low moments, maybe had more glorious highs on the flip side and was the guy who more regularly gave the fans what they wanted, in all senses...Albeit that wasn't always to his benefit, and I guess it would be fair to say that plenty of people out there are willing to use outside-the-ring grievances as a way of downplaying Mayweather's achievements inside it.

Anyway, should have known better than to get excited for Pacquiao-Spence. In fairness to Spence these things happen, he doesn't have bad form for this and it wouldn't be so much of a kick in the teeth if a few other guys out there were actually bothering to fight decent opponents and throw some entertainment our way. But jeez, what a deflating and painfully predictable bit of bad news that this fight is off.

We're almost two-thirds of the way through 2021, and how many really meaningful or big fights have we had?

Manny knocking Floyd welterweight career into a cocked hat that’s not even up for debate. Floyd avoided all the dangermen at 47 I don’t care what anybody says

Best defensive fighter since Pea, one of the best defensive fighters ever and second best fighter of his generation. That’s my summary if you wanted a quick sound bite

If you go by resume can’t rate him above Manny

If you think he’s more talented and you like his zero then that’s up to you. Who am I to argue?

Thurman was a good win that's not in doubt but the only counter you need in this debate to have Mayweather a clear distance ahead is Jeff Horn, that loss cannot be brushed over. The losses do matter when you're talking about such fine margins and in a p4p sense I don't think it's all that close, that win over Saul Alvarez looks better and better with each passing year, you'll counter by mentioning the catchweight and i'll then mention Cotto etc.

There's then the not too small issue of Mayweather actually beating Pacquiao quite easily, it wasn't a particularly exciting fight but Floyd did more than enough to win comfortably, I don't think I can see it being any closer than 117-111. I am however intrigued to know which of Pacquiao's wins at Welterweight trumps Mayweather so convincingly?

Floyd is a grade a tool but his personality doesn't change the fact he was a special talent, the extent of his apparent cherry picking is blown out of all proportion and does take away from what is a fantastic overall record. His performances down at super featherweight against Genaro Hernandez and Corrales were pretty special, he looked a million dollars against Manfredy in his first title defence, a fight that was meant to be tricky.

Floyd avoided most of the dangermen of the welterweight division, Manny went towards the dangermen that’s the difference

Manny’s resume is deeper

Herman Jaeger wrote:Floyd avoided most of the dangermen of the welterweight division, Manny went towards the dangermen that’s the difference

Manny’s resume is deeper

Like who?

Thurman for starters, blatant duck

Spence Jr running from One Time too

Keith Thurman?

He's a good Welterweight but no more than that, it adds to Pacquiao's resume based on his age but would have done little for Mayweather. Nowhere near good enough to think Mayweather ducked him. That's tickled me actually.

One Time that’s the one guy more than any other stylistically could have caused Floyd the most problems

We must disagree on that one

Bradley could have caused Floyd all sorts of problems too, possibly not as much as Keith but I suspect either of those two could have beaten Floyd on their best day. Not saying Floyd couldn’t beat them either but more than coincidental he didn’t fight two of his most stylistically difficult prime tests

Manny to fight Spence and talk of Crawford if he beaten Errol too

Could you see Floyd fighting Spence Jr or Crawford? Never go near them surely

Manny got the longevity over him at 47 just thinking on it

Best overall debatable again just thinking on it but unequivocal Manny better welterweight. I would say Floyd had proved himself a good rather than great welterweight

I’ll finish there because I’m rambling

You honestly think that Keith Thurman, yes Keith Thurman could have beaten Floyd Mayweather? I'll have to ask how and why he or Bradley are a stylistic nightmare, the hand speed difference is huge whilst neither has the offensive arsenal to break the unbreakable defence, just seems convenient to throw out names with no logic behind them.

You keep ignoring it as if it's irrelevant but Pacquiao has lost FOUR times at Welterweight including to Mayweather himself, what does it make Pacman if he's losing to good rather than great fighters, then there's Jeff Horn who you again conveniently ignore. I could say that Porter or Brook would have been a stylistic nightmare, it's nonsense and not one I can qualify with any reasoning, see how that works?

Margarito
Williams
Bradley
Porter
Thurman
Spence Jr
Crawford

Floyd comes out of all of those without a loss?

Manny got losses because he took on better opposition. Get it?

Herman Jaeger wrote:Margarito
Williams
Bradley
Porter
Thurman
Spence Jr
Crawford

Floyd comes out of all of those without a loss?

Manny got losses because he took on better opposition. Get it?

Williams would have been interesting, he beats the rest without a doubt, he definitely doesn't lose to Marquez and Horn though, the people that Pacquiao actually lost to. That still doesn't answer my question of why Thurman and Bradley are a stylistic nightmare? I'm sure you have an extensive answer backed with in fight examples for that.

I’m not giving away why I think Thurman and Bradley are highly dangerous opponents for Floyd. I prefer to let you think about it

And if Thurman’s so rubbish how come Spence Jr running from him like his life depending on it?

And you bring up Marquez who wasn’t acclimatised to the extra weight, well styles make fights, I can bring up Miguel. Manny dominated, Floyd had problems. Floyd bent over to a pre Tony Cotto don’t forget that either. Floyd knew

Bent over to Keith, bent over to Miguel

In other words you don't have any reasoning and know trying to explain it would show you up even further. Thank you for clearing up what I already know. So many excuses Herman, how many more do you have?

Coming from the fountain of technical knowledge

Gvozdyck CLEARLY the best light heavyweight in the world smh

Herman Jaeger wrote:Coming from the fountain of technical knowledge

Gvozdyck CLEARLY the best light heavyweight in the world smh

I at least back up my opinions Herman instead of just trying to make things fit my agenda.

That's not the first time i've seen you say that about Gvozdyk (notice the spelling Mr Big Shot) but it's not something i've ever said. In fact what I actually said was that he was lucky to beat Stevenson and that fight showed he didn't belong at the top level, was being outboxed for large parts of that fight. Good effort though.

Soul Requiem wrote:Fonfara and Shukotsky were decent fights too, it's hardly his fault that there was only one 50/50 out there, Gvozdyk only beat him because he got old, go back five years and that becomes a routine defence like the rest of them.

Fighting Beterbiev is seen as a good fight when it's uninspiring which shows that people alter there attitude depending on who the boxers are.

Hmm really looks like i'm calling Gvozdyk the number one.

You picked him to beat Beterbiev

Just looked through the thread and at no point do I comment on the Gvozdyk Beterbiev fight aside from saying that nobody cares about it, are you imagining things Herman. Again you can't back up your posts.

Just doesn’t sit comfortably with you does it? Your hero bent over twice to keep his eau, Manny bent over to no one

Aww bless you Herman, trying to divert away from the fact you can't back up your opinions. It's strange how you can only talk in superlatives, I appreciate Floyds talent just like I do Manny's but a hero he is not.

Given up on the Gvozdyk thing now?

What have Miguel and One Time got in common? Both got grease on their dicks from bending over Floyd

Joking about r**e, classy stuff.

Love the way you just skirt over his relinquishing twice

Proves your bias

If it was the other way round, you’d be bringing it up all the time

Manny’s an alpha welterweight, Floyd is not

Alpha Welterweights lose to Jeff Horn?

I didn’t see the Horn fight

Was it a fair result?

A lot of fans said Manny got robbed

What do we think of the DAZN presentation on here so far?

Would it work better eventually do people feel with Laura Woods as the anchor with Ali Drew doing the interviews?

Would be sad if Spence’s eye injury ends his career. Abner Mares suffered a similar injury and he’s yet to resurface. Obviously all injuries are different but doesn’t look all that good for the American.

Talking of YouTube links here’s a good short little video for Azumah, his fight with Hagler was a minor classic and as you can see in this video he boxed some tough customers, some good video of Mickey Duff too:

https://youtu.be/UhBQZIaJKxI

In other (depressing) news, David Haye has decided he hasn't quite bled the sport and fans dry enough just yet and is making another comeback. What's that, his third one now? Rumours abound that his comeback opponent for the obscene Triller card next month, the mega rich Fournier, bailed Haye out when he was temporarily banged up in Dubai a couple of years back for some shady financial shenanigans. This is allegedly Haye's way of saying thanks. But this is a TOTALLY legitimate fight which they're both training like mad men for and which is a genuine test on the road to world championship glory, of course.

It gets worse, mind you. We know that Haye is no longer managing his former rival Chisora. The split was amicable when it happened about a month ago, but lo and behold, all of a sudden word around the camp fire is that there is actually plenty of bad blood between them, and they've got another score to settle - and will do in a rematch in early 2022.

Not to mention we now have Brook and Khan 'close to agreeing a deal'. Yeah, about six or seven years too late, when they're both shot to bits and only because they've finally realised there's nowhere else for them to go, and very few fans have any interest left in them. It's enough to make you sick.

Okay, I've always laid the blame for that one never happening a lot more firmly at Khan's door than Brook's, but if Brook and his handlers had shown a bit more ambition and not made such a pig's ear of his career, we wouldn't be in this situation where the pair of them could potentially take the fans for a ride, and we'd be spared the spectacle of Brook having to sheepishly crawl back to Hearn cap in hand in a desperate attempt to bag one last pay day to cap off such a disappointing career.

Why oh why do you lot bring up the Manny and Floyd debate and go to war over it. Some people have Floyd higher, some people have Manny higher. Personality wise they're both a pair of complete twonks and I will NEVER forgive Manny giving Margherito a pay day after being caught cheating in the worst way (go watch assault in the ring and tell me it didn't matter).

They're both the greatest boxers of our generation, interchangeable at 1 and 2 and I only have Floyd at 1 as he comprehensively beat Manny whlist looking like he was cruising.

As for boxing at the moment, it is completely in the doldrums, there is no huge fights to look forward too and even the Joshua Hype train seems to be slowing. Will Tyson Fury be back or has he had enough? Is there any other heavyweight but him that at the moment you could see giving Joshua a decent bout.

Spence and Pacman looks like it couldn't be helped but there was always the niggle in the back of my mind that something wasn't right with that one. Oh and as for those claiming this shows Pac follows the glory, not the money, lets not forget the original hurdle was Pac demanding 40 mil or something stupid (and i can't blame him for it).

Domestic wise other than Beefy Vs Fowler, it all looks very slow BUT Amy Timlins up again in a couple of weeks time for the European Championship, should be a good scrap.

Ebanie Bridges looks like she may be adopted by the British public as whlist she's not the greatest boxer she shows a hell of a lot of heart, and a lot more for her weigh ins which had Eddie Hearn praying to god.
Shannon Courtney is another that seems to have gone off the boil or maybe i'm just getting annoyed that after giving Bridges a hard time over her 'sexy' photo's the last few i've seen of her have been exactly the same?

Brook and Khan, who cares... too little, too late. It'll be PPV, EH will make a fair few bucks over a fight that will be dull as dishwater or over for one of them quickly.

As for Haye, can he really pull this off again.... only time will tell but as soon as it was announced you just KNEW Chisora was gonna be brought up.

Oh but a massive Kudos to Warrington who's again putting it all on the line against a fighter everyone said afterwards he should avoid like the plague. Lets see more of that.

Agree with you Derby on Floyd / Manny. I personally couldn't care less who WAS best. Floyd is retired and only "comes back" to make several million $$$. And whilst Manny is apparently still great, it's only part-time when he can't be bothered being a Senator.

Brook and Khan are also both yesterday's news, albeit still "active". Like Chris says, both shot to bits, and utterly irrelevant. I wish that they'd leave it so their rivalry becomes a "Hatton vs Witter What Might Have Happened" kind of thing. But I guess that the lure of a few more million each is too much. With Khan now a god-awful reality "star", he's desperately trying to stay in the eyes of a public who really don't care. I don't either.

As for David Haye, he's even worse. I am guessing that his lifestyle costs more than he has. His pathetic showing against Wlad turned most of the British public against an exciting fighter, who probably had more to offer the sport had he been 100%. If his toe was genuinely knackered he should have postponed. Then you get the ridiculous press conference face off with Chisora - all to promote himself. Granted, he took Dereck to the cleaners, but then most half-decent fighters do. What next? Calling out Dillian Whyte? (That would be quite fun actually). This latest Haye development coupled with ODLH making a "comeback" really makes me retch.

As for the lack of decent match-ups, I blame the promoters and the different organisations/federations/councils/associations. They are so scared of their charges losing their titles or "0"s, they simply want to make as much money as possible. It's ridiculous that there are 4 separate recognised belts. There should be one World Champ in each division, and to get a shot you have no option but to fight the next best contender. If that person's injured, you fight the next in the list. No pathetic no-name mandatories (IBF I am looking at YOU). It'll never happen because of all the money involved, but it's a nice thought.

The problem with the Joshua gravy train  is that the big heavyweights only get wheeled out twice a year at best. People lose interest quickly, so it's no surprise that the support is waning. Covid hasn't helped either, and neither has the Fury debacle.

Derbymanc wrote:

Oh but a massive Kudos to Warrington who's again putting it all on the line against a fighter everyone said afterwards he should avoid like the plague. Lets see more of that.

I appreciate that Warrington is willing to a risk but i've never been able to warm to him as a fighter, the whole Leeds football fan thing I found jarring very quickly, ordinarily i'd find him quite enjoyable to watch. There's a bit of the Steve Collins about him too, has the names on his records but at a time they were on the downslide.

Loving the bile on this thread

Keep it coming, lads. We need more bile

Anyone looking forward to tonight’s show? Been quite good hasn’t it, Fight Camp?

See the game today you don’t even have to come through British level to get a world title shot

You fight your British rivals after your world title shot. Buatsi tonight, Yarde before. Post modern boxing. Everything the wrong way round nowadays

What’’s Bolotniks like? I saw someone say he was rubbish

To be fair to all Hermy, the bile always starts when someone starts trying to discuss Manny or Mayweather. It's a toxic conversation.

I forgot boxing was on to be honest, i'm looking forward to Amy Timlin in a few weeks but that's about it, boxings shooting itself in the foot at the moment and most of the match ups are so one sided it's ridiculous

Dreadful card last night anticlimax after the last two but Woods levels above Jama and going by the comments I read most people thought she and Tony Bellew gelled well. A few said they thought a third commentator was needed to go alongside Costello and Lee, which I wouldn’t argue with

A few were looking ahead and seeing Eddy robbing Bivol. It’s a good fight with Bivol, it’s a very good fight in fact. I guess if he beat Bivol some of those domestic fights could be huge. In a perfect world of course you’d much prefer to see him face one of the British rivals first to set up the Bivol