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ENGLAND vs ITALY - 13/02/21 - build up / match thread

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Post by TightHEAD Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:58 am

First topic message reminder :

ENGLAND vs ITALY - 13/02/21

Kick off - HQ - 14:15

England need to bounce back well, good time for Italy to turn up and disrupt their plans as best they can.

Line ups

England: Daly; Watson, Slade, Farrell,May; Ford, Youngs (Mr Untouchable); M Vunipola, Cowan-Dickie, Sinckler, Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Curry, B Vunipola??.

Replacements: George, Genge, Stuart, Ewels, Earl, Willis, Robson, Malins.

Italy: Trulla; Sperandio, Brex, Canna, Ioane; Garbisi, Varney; Lovotti, Bigi (capt), Riccioni, Lazzaroni, Sisi, Negri, Meyer, Lamaro.

Replacements: Lucchesi, Fischetti, Zilocchi, Cannone, Ruzza, Palazzani, Allan, Mori.


Last edited by TightHEAD on Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:39 pm; edited 7 times in total
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Post by doctor_grey Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:06 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:What does Farrell actually bring to this team?

I do think this every time I see him play, especially over the last year. He's Eddie's favourite and a big mouth in the dressing room, so he's not getting dropped anytime soon.

I just ask because..

Hes not creative
I dont see his leadership when the games are a mess
He can't Ruck to save his life
Hes petty, like cheap shot again today..
Hes not a ball carrier?

We have better leaders in the team / squad and better 12s
Jamie Noon

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:10 pm

Eh! Leave wor Jamie alone!

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:17 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Pros
Change of tactics to open it up more

Negatives
Billy V
Youngs
Farrell
Daly

Thought vunipola and Farrell were much better myself. Completely due to tactics. They got more ball.

What did you see in Farrell that I'm clearly missing..?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:18 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:What does Farrell actually bring to this team?

I do think this every time I see him play, especially over the last year. He's Eddie's favourite and a big mouth in the dressing room, so he's not getting dropped anytime soon.

I just ask because..

Hes not creative
I dont see his leadership when the games are a mess
He can't Ruck to save his life
Hes petty, like cheap shot again today..
Hes not a ball carrier?

We have better leaders in the team / squad and better 12s
Jamie Noon

Jamie Noon was a FAR superior player than Farrell...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:21 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Pros
Change of tactics to open it up more

Negatives
Billy V
Youngs
Farrell
Daly

Thought vunipola and Farrell were much better myself. Completely due to tactics. They got more ball.

What did you see in Farrell that I'm clearly missing..?

Great passing. Holding defenders well. Thought from that it led to the best game from dale I've seen in a long time.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:21 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:What does Farrell actually bring to this team?

I do think this every time I see him play, especially over the last year. He's Eddie's favourite and a big mouth in the dressing room, so he's not getting dropped anytime soon.

I just ask because..

Hes not creative
I dont see his leadership when the games are a mess
He can't Ruck to save his life
Hes petty, like cheap shot again today..
Hes not a ball carrier?

We have better leaders in the team / squad and better 12s
Jamie Noon

Jamie Noon was a FAR superior player than Farrell...
thumbsup

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Post by hugehandoff Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:23 pm

The issue of our midfield is our main stumbling block. Without Manu we have no go forward and no balance with the all the ball players. Ford, Farrell and Slade are basically all playmakers and none present a running threat, albeit they do possess other threats. JJ at least offers pace and stepping, Lawrence we just don't know, but we very badly need some decent new talent here.

But we played with intent today and the forwards at least gave some quick ball. Mako and Sincks certainly added quite a lot. I cannot see us hurting quality opposition with the current midfield so assume we will keep it pretty tight from now on.

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Post by TightHEAD Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:27 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Pros
Change of tactics to open it up more

Negatives
Billy V
Youngs
Farrell
Daly

Thought vunipola and Farrell were much better myself. Completely due to tactics. They got more ball.

What did you see in Farrell that I'm clearly missing..?

Great passing. Holding defenders well. Thought from that it led to the best game from dale I've seen in a long time.

Laugh
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Post by doctor_grey Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:28 pm

hugehandoff wrote:The issue of our midfield is our main stumbling block. Without Manu we have no go forward and no balance with the all the ball players. Ford, Farrell and Slade are basically all playmakers and none present a running threat, albeit they do possess other threats. JJ at least offers pace and stepping, Lawrence we just don't know, but we very badly need some decent new talent here.

But we played with intent today and the forwards at least gave some quick ball. Mako and Sincks certainly added quite a lot. I cannot see us hurting quality opposition with the current midfield so assume we will keep it pretty tight from now on.
Unfortunately, keeping it in tight is part of how England lost form. It seems odd that Eddie Jones would stick with FFS (Ford-Farrell-Slade) and play a forwards based game. But you may well be right.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:30 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Pros
Change of tactics to open it up more

Negatives
Billy V
Youngs
Farrell
Daly

Thought vunipola and Farrell were much better myself. Completely due to tactics. They got more ball.

What did you see in Farrell that I'm clearly missing..?

Great passing. Holding defenders well. Thought from that it led to the best game from dale I've seen in a long time.

Its interesting...but I just dont see it...

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:33 pm

Think Farrell must have a clause in his contract that he cant be dropped, very poor today. Ford does everything better including defend but more important brings a really calm presence. Not sure why he isnt the starting 10 every game.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:34 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Pros
Change of tactics to open it up more

Negatives
Billy V
Youngs
Farrell
Daly

Thought vunipola and Farrell were much better myself. Completely due to tactics. They got more ball.

What did you see in Farrell that I'm clearly missing..?

Great passing. Holding defenders well. Thought from that it led to the best game from dale I've seen in a long time.

Its interesting...but I just dont see it...

Watch it back and look for it. It's there.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:37 pm

I thought Farrell was really poor today, as he has been for quite a while. Handling, passing was off and he offered next to nothing from a running perspective (as normal I guess).

He's becoming a problematic selection for me.

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Post by hugehandoff Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:38 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
hugehandoff wrote:The issue of our midfield is our main stumbling block. Without Manu we have no go forward and no balance with the all the ball players. Ford, Farrell and Slade are basically all playmakers and none present a running threat, albeit they do possess other threats. JJ at least offers pace and stepping, Lawrence we just don't know, but we very badly need some decent new talent here.

But we played with intent today and the forwards at least gave some quick ball. Mako and Sincks certainly added quite a lot. I cannot see us hurting quality opposition with the current midfield so assume we will keep it pretty tight from now on.
Unfortunately, keeping it in tight is part of how England lost form.  It seems odd that Eddie Jones would stick with FFS (Ford-Farrell-Slade) and play a forwards based game.  But you may well be right.

I am sure that we all hope that England keep playing with intent and pace. Fingers crossed that this continues and no matter who is selected it is more threatening, effective and enjoyable to watch.

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Post by hugehandoff Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:39 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Think Farrell must have a clause in his contract that he cant be dropped, very poor today. Ford does everything better including defend but more important brings a really calm presence. Not sure why he isnt the starting 10 every game.

Adding defending slightly undermines you otherwise valid points. Ford waved them through for one try.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:39 pm

It doesn't take very long, does it?

The headline in the Telegraph from a report written by Mick Cleary just posted:
Billy Vunipola and rest of England's Saracens contingent still look undercooked
Eddie Jones has missed a trick by sticking with his regular men who are in a trough

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Post by TightHEAD Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:40 pm

Farrell is a useless ....

A decent leader would recognise that he is costing the team with his selection. Time to fall on his sword.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:40 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Pros
Change of tactics to open it up more

Negatives
Billy V
Youngs
Farrell
Daly

Thought vunipola and Farrell were much better myself. Completely due to tactics. They got more ball.

What did you see in Farrell that I'm clearly missing..?

Great passing. Holding defenders well. Thought from that it led to the best game from dale I've seen in a long time.

Its interesting...but I just dont see it...

Watch it back and look for it. It's there.

I dont believe it is...

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:43 pm

hugehandoff wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Think Farrell must have a clause in his contract that he cant be dropped, very poor today. Ford does everything better including defend but more important brings a really calm presence. Not sure why he isnt the starting 10 every game.

Adding defending slightly undermines you otherwise valid points. Ford waved them through for one try.

Maybe but Ford is a better defender over all. Farrell makes way more defensive errors IMO.

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Post by TightHEAD Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:43 pm

Sam Simmons call up?

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:52 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Sam Simmons call up?

I would like to see that too.


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Post by doctor_grey Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:52 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Sam Simmons call up?
to play 8..........or 10? Is likely an upgrade regardless.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:53 pm

Farrell at his best is a fantastic player. His passing game at his best has been excellent for England. The ball to Sinckler against Australia. The millimetre perfect flat ball across the front of Earls to create an early try against Ireland. The pass to Daly that allowed him to round Cuthbert and score the winner against Wales.

He's woefully out of form and looks very burnt out currently though. His place kicking has suffered significantly as well. Ford is definitely kicking better at Tigers than Faz is for England.

At 29 I think Farrell will return to form and offer a lot to England again. I don't think he should be playing himself into form in the Six Nations though. I also think that the captaincy negatively affects his on-field performance.

Curry and Itoje look the natural options to me for the captaincy. Jamie George I think could do a very good job on-field as well. A cool head and good rugby brain.

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Post by TightHEAD Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:59 pm

You can't blame Farrell for all the problems he is causing England, he isn't playing rugby on a weekly basis. Should go out on loan.

He shouldn't be selected, that is the problem.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:03 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Pros
Change of tactics to open it up more

Negatives
Billy V
Youngs
Farrell
Daly

Thought vunipola and Farrell were much better myself. Completely due to tactics. They got more ball.

What did you see in Farrell that I'm clearly missing..?

Great passing. Holding defenders well. Thought from that it led to the best game from dale I've seen in a long time.

Its interesting...but I just dont see it...

Watch it back and look for it. It's there.

I dont believe it is...

It will be. Watch it back.

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Post by hugehandoff Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:04 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Sam Simmons call up?
to play 8..........or 10?  Is likely an upgrade regardless.

12 or 13?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:05 pm

When you going to answer that question then tight head?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:22 pm

I assume you're never going to answer then tight head. Just have to guess your issue with the guys of ethinic minority then. It's a puzzle.

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Post by TightHEAD Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:22 pm

You could play Simmons anywhere.

Great player with a decent rugby brain. So he is already ahead ahead of most England players.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:25 pm

TightHEAD wrote:You could play Simmons anywhere.

Great player with a decent rugby brain. So he is already ahead ahead of most England players.

Qwhite.

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Post by TightHEAD Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:28 pm

To answer you question 7 1/2

They are dim because we kept giving away free kicks at scrum time.

To imply its because they are of, as you say ethnic minority is a pathetic attempt of baiting. Says more about you hence why I block you on 606.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:30 pm

TightHEAD wrote:To answer you question 7 1/2

They are dim because we kept giving away free kicks at scrum time.

To imply its because they are of, as you say ethnic minority is a pathetic attempt of baiting. Says more about you hence why I block you on 606.


Wow. Free kicks eh. Ignoring Stuart LCD and George's role. Qwhite a reach.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:52 pm

thread locked, to sort this out

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Post by RDW Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:53 pm

A few threads have opened up talking about what comes next with England so I don't think this thread needs re-opened.

This has actually been a good thread until the end, where we've had some really unnecessary baiting and bickering. We can't have this continue. It's been a really good 6N so far on this forum and I don't want this to go any further.

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