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Wales vs England - Build Up/Match Thread - 27-2-21

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Post by TightHEAD Sat 13 Feb 2021, 10:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wales v England

27th Feb

KO 16:46

England:

Daly;
Watson,
Slade,
Farrell,
May;
Ford,
Youngs;
M Vunipola,
George,
Sinckler,
Itoje,
Hill,
Wilson,
Curry,
B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Ewels, Martin, Earl, Robson, Malins.

WALES

1. Wyn Jones (32 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (79 Caps)
3. Tomas Francis (54 Caps)
4. Adam Beard (23 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (CAPT) (145 Caps)
6. Josh Navidi (25 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (82 Caps)
8. Taulupe Faletau (83 Caps)
9. Kieran Hardy (3 Caps)
10. Dan Biggar (89 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (29 Caps)
12. Jonathan Davies (85 Caps)
13. George North (99 Caps)
14. Louis Rees-Zammit (6 Caps)
15. Liam Williams (68 Caps)

Replacements:

16. Elliot Dee (34 Caps)
17. Rhodri Jones (19 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (14 Caps)
19. Cory Hill (29 Caps)
20. James Botham (4 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (59 Caps)
22. Callum Sheedy (6 Caps)
23. Uilisi Halaholo (1 Cap)


Last edited by TightHEAD on Thu 25 Feb 2021, 12:21 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Gooseberry Mon 01 Mar 2021, 7:10 pm

Scarpia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Referee Pascal Gauzere Admits he got both calls wrong for Wales firstv 2 tries.

That is a bit like bolting the stable door once the horse as run off. furious

Just as well Wales won by 16 points not 14 or fewer

Some of us still haven't got over that try (that was correctly ruled out) which wouldve left England losing the 2007 world cup by 2-4 points. Give us at least a week to get over this travesty of justice.

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Post by profitius Mon 01 Mar 2021, 8:26 pm

Scarpia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Referee Pascal Gauzere Admits he got both calls wrong for Wales firstv 2 tries.

That is a bit like bolting the stable door once the horse as run off. furious

Just as well Wales won by 16 points not 14 or fewer

Would have been a different game if those correct decisions were made.
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Post by Scarpia Mon 01 Mar 2021, 8:48 pm

profitius wrote:
Scarpia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Referee Pascal Gauzere Admits he got both calls wrong for Wales firstv 2 tries.

That is a bit like bolting the stable door once the horse as run off. furious

Just as well Wales won by 16 points not 14 or fewer

Would have been a different game if those correct decisions were made.

Yep. Cancel Youngs' try so 40-19 then add on whatever points Wales scored while Itoje was sin-binned. So probably 47 or 54 to 19

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 01 Mar 2021, 11:47 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Scarpia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Referee Pascal Gauzere Admits he got both calls wrong for Wales firstv 2 tries.

That is a bit like bolting the stable door once the horse as run off. furious

Just as well Wales won by 16 points not 14 or fewer

Some of us still haven't got over that try (that was correctly ruled out) which wouldve left England losing the 2007 world cup by 2-4 points. Give us at least a week to get over this travesty of justice.
No, no, no!  
Don't...bring...up...that...try.
You...are...evil.
aaaarrrgh.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 02 Mar 2021, 12:53 pm

Well gauzere hasn't been dropped from being a linesman in the italy wales game. Apparently while the assessors think he was wrong on the first try they feel it was more the tmo and speaking in english which led to the second mistake. Which means only daly has played worse and kept his place.

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Post by Scarpia Wed 03 Mar 2021, 8:07 pm

But surely this is not allowed, Mr Farrell

https://www.facebook.com/coolestguyontheplanet/videos/5342713952420528

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 03 Mar 2021, 8:11 pm

Wouldnt be now. That was in the place called the past.

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Post by Sharkey06 Wed 03 Mar 2021, 11:18 pm

Please someone start an ENgland v Wales 6 Nations 2022 thread so we can forget all about this match and the referee.

Hats off to Gauzere though for making Karl Dickson look like a half decent referee.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 04 Mar 2021, 9:03 am

The England fans already looking forward to their next favourite fixture / world cup final I see laughing

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Post by Rugby Fan Thu 04 Mar 2021, 2:18 pm

The Squidge Rugby YouTube video has a good take on the first controversial try.



It wasn't Farrell who gathered the team under the posts, it was Ford. Ford was talking to the team while Farrell was still with the referee. They weren't all there so Farrell could pass on the warning from the referee, Ford was already holding a team talk. The reason some of the players started to walk away from the huddle, is that Ford had stopped speaking, and you didn't need to stand still while Farrell said a short variation on "No more penalties".

Ford was then one of the first to spread out on England's right, with Watson, who would have been heading furthest out, not moving with any urgency. As everyone has said, the left wing was covered, albeit that touchline was closer.

While I still think England were hard done by, because the ref shouldn't have put time on solely after a private interaction with Biggar, I'm more inclined to see how we made that situation worse for ourselves. You can't completely neutralize poor referee judgement but there were aspects we could have controlled far better to make sure Wales couldn't capitalize on a something like that.

On the second controversial try, I've seen a number of arguments about what the law actually says versus how such incidents are usually refereed. The best take, though, is JP Doyle's on the House of Rugby podcast.

When asked how the TMO could have missed such an obvious infringement, Doyle compared it with that popular awareness video on YouTube which asks you to count basketball passes (below if you haven't seen it)



He says you can become so focused on one question, that you miss the whole picture which everyone else sees. It wasn't the TMO trying to be an originalist in his law interpretations: he just lost track of the context he needed for that call.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 04 Mar 2021, 2:31 pm

There is a video going around of Farrell doing the exact same thing that Dan Biggar did whilst playing for Saracens.

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Post by whatahitson Thu 04 Mar 2021, 2:53 pm

LordDowlais wrote:There is a video going around of Farrell doing the exact same thing that Dan Biggar did whilst playing for Saracens.

The referee hadn't told the Glasgow captain to speak to his team about discipline.

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 04 Mar 2021, 3:00 pm

Yes, I saw that M’Lord. Funny how things go, eh?

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 04 Mar 2021, 3:00 pm

Yes, I saw that M’Lord.  Funny how things go, eh?

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 04 Mar 2021, 3:24 pm

So he knew the pitfalls of what he was doing.

Gwyn Jones could not have put it better, for that try and the Keiron Hardy try.

YOU SHOULD NEVER TURN YOUR BACK AGAINST THE OPPOSITION.

He reckons this his bred into you at the lowest age grade levels.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 04 Mar 2021, 3:38 pm

Blame firmly with the ref, who has had admitted he made a mistake.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 04 Mar 2021, 3:49 pm

The situation is a very grey area according to Joel Jutge.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 04 Mar 2021, 3:52 pm

LordDowlais wrote:So he knew the pitfalls of what he was doing.

Gwyn Jones could not have put it better, for that try and the Keiron Hardy try.

YOU SHOULD NEVER TURN YOUR BACK AGAINST THE OPPOSITION.

He reckons this his bred into you at the lowest age grade levels.

No problem with the Hardy try at all. Very smart. The one from the penalty against Farrell was an abomination and the fault of the referee, not the players. You have to turn your back when you are in a huddle, which is what the referee was effectively asking the players to do.

There are problems with the historical Farrell clip. There is no context so you don't know what has been cut out, including if the referee had asked for the other captain to talk to his team. The team on the receiving end was also not in a huddle, just not organised (same as Hardy try).

You are blaming Farrell for something which is the referee's fault.

One event being wrong does not validate the other either way.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 04 Mar 2021, 3:55 pm

Ah Ok so if Farrell does it that's OK.

If anybody else does it, it's cheating.

Thanks for clearing that up. picard

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 04 Mar 2021, 3:57 pm

Well yes actually. The laws were changed after that rather old clip of Chris Ashton in a Saracens shirt.

As the ref has said himself: it was a mistake.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 04 Mar 2021, 4:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Ah Ok so if Farrell does it that's OK.

If anybody else does it, it's cheating.

Thanks for clearing that up. picard

You really are not reading anything through are you. Please read back my previous message, but just in case it is too hard for you to find I'll summarise.

The fault is not with Farrell or Biggar

The fault is with the referee.

Nobody was 'cheating'. The referee was being a moron.


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Post by LordDowlais Thu 04 Mar 2021, 4:03 pm

Laugh

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Post by whatahitson Thu 04 Mar 2021, 5:58 pm

I don't know why there's confusion. The Farrell incident didn't see the referee stop the clock and tell the captain to speak to his team. It's a completely different situation.

Wales did nothing wrong the problem was the referee. Farrell is a poor on pitch captain and does not know how to manage them properly which probably led to him not giving them fair warning before he put the clock back on.

If there's any argument it's with England trying to stop momentum and slow down the clock by bringing the water carriers on. Even so it's poor form by Gauzere to not signal to Farrell that time is about to be put back on, at which point the ball is live. No one wants to see that happen to their team in a world cup final do they? No. It's bad refereeing.

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