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Ireland vs England

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No 7&1/2
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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 16 Mar 2021, 7:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd set up a neutral venue.

Some team news is that Ryan and Ringrose have been ruled out for the home team.

No sign as yet of Underhill so Wilson on for another start unless Jones gets brave and picks Martin from the off. May actually be tempted as POM is back available.


Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 Mar 2021, 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : rubbish spelling)

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Post by Heaf Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:20 pm

Brendan wrote:Defending player kneeling on the ground.

Attacking player drops his head down at the contact.

Tackle around chest.

Red card

Kneeling on the ground - what were you looking at?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:21 pm

Brendan wrote:Defending player kneeling on the ground.

Attacking player drops his head down at the contact.

Tackle around chest.

Red card

The problem is that his chest is always upright, if you don't bend at the hips then you aren't judged to be dropping your height. If feel sorry for him because it's unlucky and he's trying to make a legal tackle but the law interpretation at the minute is so zero tolerance mitigation is pretty hard to find especially if the player is going off for a HIA.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:22 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Aww no way...how can that be a red....

I agree Vunapola was very low, leading with his big head harsh red.

I'm a 1000% for pkayer safety but what more could Aki do there.

Tackle lower.

Oh come on, Billy was so low...how much lower does the defender have to go...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:23 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Aww no way...how can that be a red....

I agree Vunapola was very low, leading with his big head harsh red.

I'm a 1000% for pkayer safety but what more could Aki do there.

Tackle lower.

Oh come on, Billy was so low...how much lower does the defender have to go...

Lower than the head.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:23 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Aww no way...how can that be a red....

I agree Vunapola was very low, leading with his big head harsh red.

I'm a 1000% for pkayer safety but what more could Aki do there.

Tackle lower.

Oh come on, Billy was so low...how much lower does the defender have to go...

Lower! lol. Shoulder to head, it's that simple. He lined him up at the height.

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Post by theslosty Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:23 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
theslosty wrote:With the current protocols it's a red.

But given Billy was quite low, I feel there could have been a bit of mitigation and yellow would have been about right

But he didn't get lower, he just stayed the same height. Aki lined him up at that height and direct shoulder to the head, 100% red.

These things happen very fast and Aki was already pretty low. If it is red at least it hasn't affected the result.
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Post by Duty281 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:24 pm

Even with 14, Ireland are still better. laughing

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:24 pm

So the defender should be on his knees then...

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:24 pm

I don't think we'll be seeing much of Hill after this 6N.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:24 pm

England gave up at half time we should really try to get some trys

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Aww no way...how can that be a red....

I agree Vunapola was very low, leading with his big head harsh red.

I'm a 1000% for pkayer safety but what more could Aki do there.

Tackle lower.

Easier said than done, front on tackles in close quarters there is nigh on no chance to adjust height once set for the tackle, especially if the ball carrier drops his head

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Post by Brendan Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:25 pm

hugehandoff wrote:
Brendan wrote:Defending player kneeling on the ground.

Attacking player drops his head down at the contact.

Tackle around chest.

Red card

clear red....no debate

While by the current understanding yes. It puts all the blame on the defender.  Aki's right knee is almost on the ground, so is lower while, also being a shorter player.

There is no responsibility put on the attacker who is going with more force.  If the attacker had hit the defender's head like Henerson on Farrel it is nothing even though it is shoulder to head.

That is unfair which is the point, how does the attacking player get stopped or should the defending player just leave him through

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Post by owen10ozzy Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:26 pm

Does it matter, the amount of penalties we give away we might as well just play with 13 ourselves..ridiculous

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:26 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:England gave up at half time we should really try to get some trys

Ireland really should. England have humiliated Ireland over the last few years, they should be aiming for some pay back as they're very much on top.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:26 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't think we'll be seeing much of Hill after this 6N.

Brainless penalty. This isn't the player we see for Chiefs. Send him back to Devon and if he refinds his form we'll re-evaluate but currently he'll be lucky to wear the rose again soon.

On the upside George Martin makes his debut. Go in young man.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:27 pm

Clear red, not sure what the debate is.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:27 pm

Old Man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Aww no way...how can that be a red....

I agree Vunapola was very low, leading with his big head harsh red.

I'm a 1000% for pkayer safety but what more could Aki do there.

Tackle lower.

Easier said than done, front on tackles in close quarters there is nigh on no chance to adjust height once set for the tackle, especially if the ball carrier drops his head

He doesn't drop. Clear red.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:27 pm

I think we can say it is game over right now. Ireland deserved winners out played England all over the park today.

Billy Vunapola said in the week England was playing more for pride today. well not much pride to show today.

Bundiaki looks more like a back rower than a centre. just how much weight as he put on?

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:28 pm

Aaww was that Genge punching?

Or wriggling to get up

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:28 pm

Got to be a yellow for Ireland here.

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Post by Cyril Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:29 pm

Disappointing by England again but Ireland really are such a dirty side. They remind me of old-school Argentina in lots of ways.

There was a dropped knee and a potential gouge in that lady play.

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Post by Brendan Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:31 pm

I think Ireland will be glad with their phyiscallity but looked much better playing what is in front of them.

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Post by Scottrf Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:31 pm

Brendan wrote:
hugehandoff wrote:
Brendan wrote:Defending player kneeling on the ground.

Attacking player drops his head down at the contact.

Tackle around chest.

Red card

clear red....no debate

While by the current understanding yes. It puts all the blame on the defender.  Aki's right knee is almost on the ground, so is lower while, also being a shorter player.

There is no responsibility put on the attacker who is going with more force.  If the attacker had hit the defender's head like Henerson on Farrel it is nothing even though it is shoulder to head.

That is unfair which is the point, how does the attacking player get stopped or should the defending player just leave him through
Easily possible. It’s just because these guys are used to tackling round shoulders.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:32 pm

Lol. Nice drop kick.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:35 pm

Stick to the topic rather than personal attacks or they'll be bans handed out.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:35 pm

Woeful Six Nations for England, bar one good half against the French. Time for Jones and half the team to go. Rebuild needed otherwise England will be walking into a Parisian disaster in 2023.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:36 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Stick to the topic rather than personal attacks or they'll be bans handed out.

I refuse not to state Daly and Youngs are rubbish Sarge. JUST BAN ME NOW.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:37 pm

Well played Ireland, I imagine the players enjoyed that. Big physical showing.

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Post by Brendan Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:37 pm

Scottrf wrote:
Brendan wrote:
hugehandoff wrote:
Brendan wrote:Defending player kneeling on the ground.

Attacking player drops his head down at the contact.

Tackle around chest.

Red card

clear red....no debate

While by the current understanding yes. It puts all the blame on the defender.  Aki's right knee is almost on the ground, so is lower while, also being a shorter player.

There is no responsibility put on the attacker who is going with more force.  If the attacker had hit the defender's head like Henerson on Farrel it is nothing even though it is shoulder to head.

That is unfair which is the point, how does the attacking player get stopped or should the defending player just leave him through
Easily possible. It’s just because these guys are used to tackling round shoulders.

Point is if shoulder to head is red and Farrell had go off because he was hit in the head by Henderson.

The simple reason is a forward can hit as many people in the head as they wants with his shoulder, it's just bad tackling. If the attacker uses his arm it's not ok

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:37 pm

Duty281 wrote:Woeful Six Nations for England, bar one good half against the French. Time for Jones and half the team to go. Rebuild needed otherwise England will be walking into a Parisian disaster in 2023.

What are your changes then Duty? You said more than half of today's side I think.

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Post by TightHEAD Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:37 pm

Well played Ireland.

One day we'll have a real leader on the pitch.

CJ Stander enjoy retirement in your native SA!

Mmm Biltong.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:38 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Stick to the topic rather than personal attacks or they'll be bans handed out.

I refuse not to state Daly and Youngs are rubbish Sarge. JUST BAN ME NOW.

I'm saying nothing mate lol....Sam will have me!

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Post by westisbest Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:38 pm

Great win for Ireland. Thought the red was slightly harsh. Feel we took our foot off the gas towards the end.

Great end to the tournament, where we didn’t start to well.
Pleased for Stander that his last game is a win.

Henshaw man of the match. Been quality this tournament.

Lions selection (if goes ahead) will be interesting.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:40 pm

Great win for us but not going to get too excited about it as England were very poor. Shame we didnt beat Wales, would have been a good campaign.

Henshaw, Keenan, Earls, Sexton and Beirne had good tournaments.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:42 pm

westisbest wrote:Great win for Ireland. Thought the red was slightly harsh. Feel we took our foot off the gas towards the end.

Great end to the tournament, where we didn’t start to well.
Pleased for Stander that his last game is a win.

Henshaw man of the match. Been quality this tournament.

Lions selection (if goes ahead) will be interesting.

Line in the sand. If you know the laws you know its red. Not harsh at all. As long as people think it is there'll be more reds.

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Post by miltonkeynesengland Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:43 pm

Congrats Ireland comprehensive win today

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Post by Heaf Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:44 pm

Ireland B
Officials C-
England F

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:45 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
westisbest wrote:Great win for Ireland. Thought the red was slightly harsh. Feel we took our foot off the gas towards the end.

Great end to the tournament, where we didn’t start to well.
Pleased for Stander that his last game is a win.

Henshaw man of the match. Been quality this tournament.

Lions selection (if goes ahead) will be interesting.

Line in the sand. If you know the laws you know its red. Not harsh at all. As long as people think it is there'll be more reds.

There was enough mitigation to make it yellow, harsh call.

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Post by TJ Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:46 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Clear red, not sure what the debate is.

I agree. Unlucky but red. When you looked in slow motion its clear that Vunipola did not dip lower as the tackle was made - aki went for the smother tackle and was a smidge too high.
Players have to change the way they tackle - get lower

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:47 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Well played Ireland.

One day we'll have a real leader on the pitch.

CJ Stander enjoy retirement in your native SA!

Mmm Biltong.

Had the sound off, so this was his last international match? Is he moving back to SA?

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Post by tatterd Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:47 pm

England got smashed up front

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:47 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
westisbest wrote:Great win for Ireland. Thought the red was slightly harsh. Feel we took our foot off the gas towards the end.

Great end to the tournament, where we didn’t start to well.
Pleased for Stander that his last game is a win.

Henshaw man of the match. Been quality this tournament.

Lions selection (if goes ahead) will be interesting.

Line in the sand. If you know the laws you know its red. Not harsh at all. As long as people think it is there'll be more reds.

There was enough mitigation to make it yellow, harsh call.

What was the mitigation against the thresholds of World rugby?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:49 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
westisbest wrote:Great win for Ireland. Thought the red was slightly harsh. Feel we took our foot off the gas towards the end.

Great end to the tournament, where we didn’t start to well.
Pleased for Stander that his last game is a win.

Henshaw man of the match. Been quality this tournament.

Lions selection (if goes ahead) will be interesting.

Line in the sand. If you know the laws you know its red. Not harsh at all. As long as people think it is there'll be more reds.

There was enough mitigation to make it yellow, harsh call.

What was the mitigation?

Being low is not a mitigation.....dipping or lowering suddenly is as it's difficult for the tackler to adjust. BV didn't get lower, he didn't dip.

By the current laws, this a really straight forward call for the ref.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:54 pm

Vunapolas head is about waist high going into the collision and he is leading with his head, very difficult to avoid.

https://youtu.be/4bZDqvikg8g



Last edited by Collapse2005 on Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:55 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Stick to the topic rather than personal attacks or they'll be bans handed out.

I refuse not to state Daly and Youngs are rubbish Sarge. JUST BAN ME NOW.

I'm saying nothing mate lol....Sam will have me!

I will Ben had a decent game. Murray had a great game mind though it's easier to control when your forwards are on top in every facet of the game.

Ireland did us up front, completely. Starting pack have got to have a long hard look at themselves because none of them were good enough.

Henshaw and Beirne were sensational for Ireland. Their work in defence built that victory.

Only positive for me is young George Martin making his debut and  having a good carry through Sexton and just doing the good hard graft without conceding pens. Should be the first of many caps over the next 10 to 15 years.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:59 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Vunapolas head is about waist high going into the collision and he is leading with his head, very difficult to avoid.

Well he was obviously not waist height, he was running. He was the same height from 5m away up until the tackle....hence no mitigation.

There is always a lot of outrage from fans regarding red cards for these type of tackles. A lot of the time it just seems to be people not understanding the laws rather than any crazy call. This is one of the most clear cards we've had this 6N, a very simple red card.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:59 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Vunapolas head is about waist high going into the collision and he is leading with his head, very difficult to avoid.

https://youtu.be/4bZDqvikg8g


Thats not mitigation.

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Post by Heaf Sat 20 Mar 2021, 6:59 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Vunapolas head is about waist high going into the collision and he is leading with his head, very difficult to avoid.

https://youtu.be/4bZDqvikg8g


Sorry if that's waist high you must be about 10 feet tall ...

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Post by Old Man Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:00 pm

Well Stander’s retirement and move back to SA does question the “adopted country” issue.

In his case he wanted to play test rugby and thinking he won’t make it in SA meant he chose another country, yet his yearning for his country of birth is still very much alive.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:00 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Vunapolas head is about waist high going into the collision and he is leading with his head, very difficult to avoid.

https://youtu.be/4bZDqvikg8g


Thats not mitigation.

If you are sensible it is.

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