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South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July

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South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 17 Empty South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July

Post by George Carlin Sat 17 Jul 2021, 8:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 17 A_10                  South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 17 Lions_10                
SOUTH AFRICA BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Saturday 24 July
KO: 18:00 SAST / 17:00 UK / 20:00 Dubai  Very Happy
Cape Town Stadium (Newlands), Cape Town
Sky Sports Main Event

Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Ben O’Keeffe, Mathieu Raynal
TMO: Marius Bloody Jonker of all people

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA:
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 62 caps, 60 pts (12t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse) – 14 caps, 40 pts (8t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 15 caps, 15 pts (3t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Munster) – 47 caps, 30 pts (6t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 14 caps, 70 pts (14t)
10 – Handré Pollard (vice-captain – Montpellier) – 49 caps, 465pts (6t, 78c, 89p, 4d)
09 – Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks) – 30 caps, 20 pts (4t)

08 – Kwagga Smith (Yamaha Júbilo) – 7 caps, 5 pts (1t)
07 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers) – 56 caps, 25 pts (5t)
06 – Siya Kolisi (captain – Cell C Sharks) – 51 caps, 30 pts (6t)
05 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 40 caps, 5pts (1t)
04 – Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) – 86 caps, 15 pts (3t)
03 – Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) – 43 caps, 5 pts (1t)
02 – Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers) – 37 caps, 40 pts (8t)
01 – Ox Nché (Cell C Sharks) – 2 caps, 0 pts

16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 34 caps, 30 pts (6t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 48 caps, 5pts (1t)
18 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 39 caps, 5pts (1t)
19 – Lood de Jager (Sale Sharks) – 45 caps, 25 pts (5t)
20 – Rynhardt Elstadt (Toulouse) – 2 caps, 0 pts
21 – Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers) – 11 caps, 25 pts (5t)
22 – Elton Jantjies (Pau) – 38 caps, 283 pts (2t, 63c, 49p)
23 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 7 caps, 5pts (1t)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS:
15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter, Scotland) #783
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
09. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

01. Rory Sutherland (Worcester, Scotland) #840
02. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter, England) #851
03. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
04. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
05. Alun Wyn Jones (C) (Ospreys, Wales) #761
06. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
07. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
08. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

PREVIEW:


Last edited by George Carlin on Sat 24 Jul 2021, 4:25 pm; edited 6 times in total
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South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July  - Page 17 Empty Re: South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 24 July

Post by flyhalffactory Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:20 pm

Cyril wrote:Flyhalffactory, are you here to nibble at England player stats or support the Lions? I don’t just mean today, but generally?

Can you qualify your remarks Cyril (perhaps without down-voting like a child every time I post would also be good), provide evidence.

I think Itoje, LCD, Vunipola has excellent games, I also stated Itoje had a great TO but then lost a line-out. I also stated Sutherland had a few iffy moments

So do you want to qualify your statement "Cyril"
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Post by sensisball Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:21 pm

Not sure if it was just coincidence but the Boks collapse coincided with the replacement of the front row. I know Malherbe never looks conditioned but he looked even more like an old bouncer on a market town disco door than ever. Even Marx and Kitshoff generally were off their game.
Kolisi had emptied his tanks by 70 and their decision making and execution was really poor in the last quarter.
Covid has definitely hampered the Bok prep, the question is will this game have put enough miles into enough legs to make a difference after half time next week

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:23 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:So who got motm??

They just mentioned it again, it was AWJ.

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Post by Old Man Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:25 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Old Man wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Old Man - what do you think will change in terms of selection for you next week?

Don’t see much changing, perhaps Kwagga Smith out, he was busy, but didn’t really make an impact. Other than that maybe Koch in Nche out.

The problem really is the discipline, decision making and fitness that seems to be the biggest issues

Old Man
Basically like the  SA A game, they run of steam, lack of game time, lack of fitness, lack of match sharpness creates knock on effects are discipline and decision making


Pretty much yeah.

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Post by Old Man Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:26 pm

sensisball wrote:Not sure if it was just coincidence but the Boks collapse coincided with the replacement of the front row. I know Malherbe never looks conditioned but he looked even more like an old bouncer on a market town disco door than ever. Even Marx and Kitshoff generally were off their game.
Kolisi had emptied his tanks by 70 and their decision making and execution was really poor in the last quarter.
Covid has definitely hampered the Bok prep, the question is will this game have put enough miles into enough legs to make a difference after half time next week

We can only hope

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:26 pm

Think Jonny Sexton was man of the match

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Post by George Carlin Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:29 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Think Jonny Sexton was man of the match
Only for Ronan O'Gara who always seems to have a face like fizz any time that he's asked anything.

Itoje was man of the match, probably just pipping Lawes who was a beast. AWJ is made of kevlar. I thought that Price and Hogg were very good too.
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Post by doctor_grey Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:29 pm

Just got back in. Who was MOTM? Itoje?
Why didn't Watson get carded? Couldn't hear the commentary.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:31 pm

Will Greenwoods haircut was man of the match.

Watson wasnt booked because Gatland had the refs in his pocket

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:31 pm

It was four.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:32 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Just got back in.  Who was MOTM?  Itoje?
Why didn't Watson get carded?  Couldn't hear the commentary.

Itoje.

No. Basically don't know why he wasn't carded. One of a number of odd decisions sprinkled across both sides.

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Post by BamBam Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:34 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
BamBam wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
BamBam wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
BamBam wrote:@FHF they're showing Itoje's turnovers again, get ready to count!

Yes and it was still 2 in the first half. If you don't understand what a turnover I can explain it to you

He retrieved possession from the opposition 3 times in the first half. If you're hanging your hat on the fact that one of those was after Faf had picked it up then fair play for the commitment to your agenda Laugh

Itoje got MOTM officially

MOTM doesn't alter the fact that he gained 2 TOs at that point. Official British Lions stats also confirm it
OK?

Are you ok? Why so angry about Itoje getting 3 turnovers in the first 40 mins, all the Lions fans were celebrating because it's a good thing! I would go and find the precise time of each turnover if I thought it would help, but you'd probably say one didn't count for some obscure reason

The MOTM point was to answer Pooly

Why do you always insinuate I'm angry when you realise you are wrong. I'm telling you he had 2 TOs after 40 mins like Sgt Pooly stated but 7&1/2 the stated it was 3 (surprise).The 2 TOs were confirmed at halftime by the British Lions website and Sky.
So not angry lad, just telling you it wasn't 3 TOs and if you want me to explain why it was 2 not 3 then I can.
If however I missed a TO then I'll hold my hand up

OK?

Your head's gone, put the beers down old chap. Already counted to 3 for you once, not doing it again


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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:34 pm

Great second half from the boys. Really came through well.

I agree with the a ove the huge boks didn't really looked conditioned....looked unfit.

Am I rhe only one who doesn't really rate Kolisi...? I just don't see a lot of what he brings.

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Post by R!skysports Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:37 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Great second half from the boys. Really came through well.

I agree with the a ove the huge boks didn't really looked conditioned....looked unfit.

Am I rhe only one who doesn't really rate Kolisi...? I just don't see a lot of what he brings.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:39 pm

R!skysports wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Great second half from the boys. Really came through well.

I agree with the a ove the huge boks didn't really looked conditioned....looked unfit.

Am I rhe only one who doesn't really rate Kolisi...? I just don't see a lot of what he brings.

Dragons

?

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Post by flyhalffactory Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:41 pm

BamBam wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
BamBam wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
BamBam wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
BamBam wrote:@FHF they're showing Itoje's turnovers again, get ready to count!

Yes and it was still 2 in the first half. If you don't understand what a turnover I can explain it to you

He retrieved possession from the opposition 3 times in the first half. If you're hanging your hat on the fact that one of those was after Faf had picked it up then fair play for the commitment to your agenda Laugh

Itoje got MOTM officially

MOTM doesn't alter the fact that he gained 2 TOs at that point. Official British Lions stats also confirm it
OK?

Are you ok? Why so angry about Itoje getting 3 turnovers in the first 40 mins, all the Lions fans were celebrating because it's a good thing! I would go and find the precise time of each turnover if I thought it would help, but you'd probably say one didn't count for some obscure reason

The MOTM point was to answer Pooly

Why do you always insinuate I'm angry when you realise you are wrong. I'm telling you he had 2 TOs after 40 mins like Sgt Pooly stated but 7&1/2 the stated it was 3 (surprise).The 2 TOs were confirmed at halftime by the British Lions website and Sky.
So not angry lad, just telling you it wasn't 3 TOs and if you want me to explain why it was 2 not 3 then I can.
If however I missed a TO then I'll hold my hand up

OK?

Your head's gone, put the beers down old chap. Already counted to 3 for you once, not doing it again

Stroll on. As usual you cannae qualify your "statements"
Sky, British Lions website and myself all said 2 but because you wrote 3 many time then we are all incorrect.

Go away now, nothing for you here
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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:43 pm

Oh no was it three or was it four turnovers. It really doesn't matter so why are you getting so irate about it?

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Post by sensisball Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:43 pm

Not sure if it was just coincidence but the Boks collapse coincided with the replacement of the front row. I know Malherbe never looks conditioned but he looked even more like an old bouncer on a market town disco door than ever. Even Marx and Kitshoff generally were off their game.
Kolisi had emptied his tanks by 70 and their decision making and execution was really poor in the last quarter.
Covid has definitely hampered the Bok prep, the question is will this game have put enough miles into enough legs to make a difference after half time next week

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:46 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Great second half from the boys. Really came through well.

I agree with the a ove the huge boks didn't really looked conditioned....looked unfit.

Am I rhe only one who doesn't really rate Kolisi...? I just don't see a lot of what he brings.

I’m not sure what he brings as a captain or player. There’s probably a few loosies around SA that feel hard done by.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:47 pm

Sat in majorca watching the game...thought I'd log on to see oeioles thoughts...and the standard arguments dominate.
Look the boys came through superb..second half..who cares who got one, two or three turnovers.

They won...bring on the second test.

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Post by BamBam Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:47 pm

Who are the British Lions? Conan, Henshaw, Murray etc all would be interested to hear the answer to that one too

Luckily most on here who saw all of Itoje's stellar work getting 4 turnovers (a whopping 3 in the first half!) seem to actually watch the game rather than just rely on website statistics to make up fantasy arguments against English players!

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 8:52 pm

Despite the mediocre forwards I think Gatland will be most tempted to change the fly half and midfield. If Russell is fit he surely comes in, if not Smith after that first appearance must be tempting?

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Post by cb Sat 24 Jul 2021, 9:02 pm

Probably a match with more intensity than quality.  Lions I think the better team overall but fortunate with the try disallowed for offside and the Watson tackle.  

For next week, I think perhaps Harris for Daly.  Daly is a player who needs a bit of space and certainly did not get it from the Boks.  I would leave Henshaw at 12.  If Biggar is unfit then is it Farrell, Russell or Smith?

VDM a little suspect under the high-ball but still offers something different to the other wingers.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 24 Jul 2021, 9:04 pm

Maybe Gatland will revert to what people consider type next week. Somebody like Aki at 12. Daly to the bench. Adams for VDM. If Biggar is fit, I would probably start him, just because of how I assume it’s going to be more of a kick and chase fest.

Possibly no changes in the forward pack for me, but I hope the pack take their second half performance in from the start. Maybe if Wyn Jones is fit, he starts and Mako can come on and do his stuff again.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 24 Jul 2021, 9:04 pm

Poorfour wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:You'd be trying to call up the guy that doesn't want to play internationally as it means spending time away from his family. The same guy that didn't like touring with the Lions last time and who's publicly said if he was Gatland he wouldn't pick him.

Marler is an exceptional loosehead but I think he's a club player now and people need to let it go. Playing for Quins is what makes him happy, he's tried the other stuff and he doesn't want to do it again. Fair enough family comes first.

Hopefully Wyn Jones is going to be ok to have a crack at SA next weekend.

Hopefully he does.

But it’s not that Marler doesn’t want to play internationally; he doesn’t want to be away from his family for the amount of time that international rugby currently demands. Being away for 2 weeks is very different from being away for 8 weeks. If I were Gatland and I weren’t confident of my props’ fitness, I’d make the call. The worst that can happen is that he says no, and I have to call up someone else.

Taken from a BBC article;

Marler explained: "If I had been picked, I'd have had that little chat.

"'I've been picked for the Lions.' She's like, 'Yeah, what does that mean?'

"'Well, it means I might have to go away for nine weeks.' She says, 'OK, that's, that's cool. If you need to go away for nine weeks you go. We probably won't be here when you get back.'

"Luckily, Warren's actually saved me from even attempting to have that conversation."

His wife was due to give birth in June. Heading over for two weeks of training and unlikely to play? Unlikely he'd take that option, particularly if there has to be an isolation period on return.

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Post by bsando Sat 24 Jul 2021, 9:13 pm

It’s going to be fascinating final two tests after today’s huge win!

Some of the near trys from SA came from some blitz defensive blunders, that’ll need to change for the second test.

The second test could be a really tight affair once again and I’d expect a better showing from the Boks. The lions bench really made a difference today and that’ll give the lions coaches a lot of confidence going forwards.

Personally the only change I would make us maybe Aki or Harris for Daly. DVDM didn’t get the ball much but his physical pressure at rucks and in defence certainly gave very little room to attack for Kolbe etc.

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Post by Heuer27 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 9:54 pm

I see a few folk saying VDM should be dropped next game, I don’t understand this thinking. Kolbe , the most dangerous player in the world, never got a sniff the whole game. VDM looked like the only back to make ground with the limited ball he had and he competed really well in the air.
SA made all their gains down Watson’s wing. For me he is the one with his jacket on a shoogly peg.
Curry seems to have escaped criticism too. He gave away 3 penalties in the first half and on another day would have seen yellow for a no arm, flying shoulder charge on DeKlerk off the ball. He did, like the rest of the pack, settle down in the second half but I think he might just be looking over his shoulder for next week.

Biggar will not make next game will he ? Does his mandatory return to play protocols not exclude him from playing next week? That would mean Farrell at ten Smith or Russell to the bench. Can see Daly replaced by Harris or Aki. No changes for me other than that unless Wyn Jones comes back in.


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Post by doctor_grey Sat 24 Jul 2021, 9:58 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sat in majorca watching the game...thought I'd log on to see oeioles thoughts...and the standard arguments dominate.
Look the boys came through superb..second half..who cares who got one, two or three turnovers.

They won...bring on the second test.
I was going to dislike your post.  Not because of anything you wrote or anything you have written in the past.  It's because you are in Majorca.
And I am not.  You @&^%^&.

We good?

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Post by George Carlin Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:06 pm

Some people here are skating close to a ban for the next test. Can we stop the sledging and personal attacks? Its getting really boring for the rest of us. Either talk about the game without having a pop at each other or put the device down and don’t bother saying anything.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:22 pm

Heuer27 wrote:I see a few folk saying VDM should be dropped next game, I don’t understand this thinking. Kolbe , the most dangerous player in the world, never got a sniff the whole game. VDM looked like the only back to make ground with the limited ball he had and he competed really well in the air.
SA made all their gains down Watson’s wing. For me he is the one with his jacket on a shoogly peg.
Curry seems to have escaped criticism too. He gave away 3 penalties in the first half and on another day would have seen yellow for a no arm, flying shoulder charge on DeKlerk off the ball. He did, like the rest of the pack, settle down in the second half but I think he might just be looking over his shoulder for next week.

Biggar will not make next game will he ? Does his mandatory return to play protocols not exclude him from playing next week? That would mean Farrell at ten Smith or Russell to the bench. Can see Daly replaced by Harris or Aki. No changes for me other than that unless Wyn Jones comes back in.

It is possible to recover from a HIA inside 7 days. It would depend on whether he failed his HIA or whether once he was off the field the medical staff decided it wasn't worth sending him back on. There was a lot of strapping on the knee. I hope he's back because otherwise it's Farrell starting and he didn't look great off the bench. Russell is unlikely to go from injured to starting and I can't see Gatland backing Smith to start over Farrell.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:27 pm

Did Biggar get a HIA? I didn’t think he hit his head.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:28 pm

The only way Daly could stay on is if Biggar failed his HIA no?

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:30 pm

Heuer27 wrote:I see a few folk saying VDM should be dropped next game, I don’t understand this thinking. Kolbe , the most dangerous player in the world, never got a sniff the whole game. VDM looked like the only back to make ground with the limited ball he had and he competed really well in the air.
SA made all their gains down Watson’s wing. For me he is the one with his jacket on a shoogly peg.
Curry seems to have escaped criticism too. He gave away 3 penalties in the first half and on another day would have seen yellow for a no arm, flying shoulder charge on DeKlerk off the ball. He did, like the rest of the pack, settle down in the second half but I think he might just be looking over his shoulder for next week.

Biggar will not make next game will he ? Does his mandatory return to play protocols not exclude him from playing next week? That would mean Farrell at ten Smith or Russell to the bench. Can see Daly replaced by Harris or Aki. No changes for me other than that unless Wyn Jones comes back in.
Biggar went off for an HIA? I was in a pub and was hard to hear the commentary. Farrell does not inspire confidence. I can see Daly on the bench with Henshaw and Harris in the midfield. Conan was kind of invisible and could easily be replaced, but with whom?

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Post by Heuer27 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:31 pm

Yeh they said he failed his HIA in commentary which made me think that he would miss next game. I thought the daily protocols he needs to pass wouldn’t give him enough time even if he passed them.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:36 pm

Heuer27 wrote:Yeh they said he failed his HIA in commentary which made me think that he would miss next game. I thought the daily protocols he needs to pass wouldn’t give him enough time even if he passed them.

It’s not the first time I’ve seen a player fail HIA and be available the weekend after, so it must be this. I also think Daly did a lot better when he came back on.

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Post by Cyril Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:36 pm

Watson made some good ground on his wing with a few jinking moves. VDM looked uncomfortable and awkward as usual. Maybe Adams for VDM to add some guile and better defence?

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Post by Heuer27 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:36 pm

Tbh I was surprised that nothing was made of it after the game. It does leave the team really strapped at ten now. He is going to miss most if not all of the training before next week. Not such a problem for a winger but huge for a ten to miss all the training.


Last edited by Heuer27 on Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Cyril Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:39 pm

I’d Biggar is out for the next test it will be interesting if Smith gets on the bench with Farrell moving to 10.

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Post by sensisball Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:41 pm

If Biggar and Russell are the unavailable then I think from Garland's perspective it would have to be Farrell at 10. There is no way that that Gats would overlook the " test match animal" that is the misfiring, and mediocre at best, Faz for a fresh faced kid from Brighton.
No matter how much talent he has shown this season, Gatland would not pick him.

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Post by Heuer27 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:44 pm

Cyril wrote:Watson made some good ground on his wing with a few jinking moves. VDM looked uncomfortable and awkward as usual. Maybe Adams for VDM to add some guile and better defence?

Watson was caught out of position a couple of times. First led to a line out and the second he was out of position and had to track back to collect a ball then ran straight across the pitch inside his 22. A proper coach killer.

No point in guile when the ball is only being hoofed up for the wingers to compete. 6’4 and seventeen stone wins that game every time as seen today. You’ll need to remind me where VDM looked uncomfortable cause I didn’t see it . In fact it looked like SA purposely kept the ball away from him as they didn’t fancy him running it back.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:45 pm

Heuer27 wrote:I see a few folk saying VDM should be dropped next game, I don’t understand this thinking. Kolbe , the most dangerous player in the world, never got a sniff the whole game. VDM looked like the only back to make ground with the limited ball he had and he competed really well in the air.
SA made all their gains down Watson’s wing. For me he is the one with his jacket on a shoogly peg.
Curry seems to have escaped criticism too. He gave away 3 penalties in the first half and on another day would have seen yellow for a no arm, flying shoulder charge on DeKlerk off the ball. He did, like the rest of the pack, settle down in the second half but I think he might just be looking over his shoulder for next week.

Biggar will not make next game will he ? Does his mandatory return to play protocols not exclude him from playing next week? That would mean Farrell at ten Smith or Russell to the bench. Can see Daly replaced by Harris or Aki. No changes for me other than that unless Wyn Jones comes back in.

It’s not that I think VDM did too much wrong per se, but Adams was very unlucky to not be selected anyway and VDM missed a couple of tackles today. I know his six nations stats apparently suggest he doesn’t miss tackles, but it’s just little things that Gatland may think of.

Nothing personal against VDM and if he is selected, I’d obviously back him.

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Post by TightHEAD Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:50 pm

Adams Starts. If Bigger is out would love to see Smith on the bench. Farrell to win it for the Lions at 10 to shut up the haters.

Class player.
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Post by Heuer27 Sat 24 Jul 2021, 10:52 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Heuer27 wrote:I see a few folk saying VDM should be dropped next game, I don’t understand this thinking. Kolbe , the most dangerous player in the world, never got a sniff the whole game. VDM looked like the only back to make ground with the limited ball he had and he competed really well in the air.
SA made all their gains down Watson’s wing. For me he is the one with his jacket on a shoogly peg.
Curry seems to have escaped criticism too. He gave away 3 penalties in the first half and on another day would have seen yellow for a no arm, flying shoulder charge on DeKlerk off the ball. He did, like the rest of the pack, settle down in the second half but I think he might just be looking over his shoulder for next week.

Biggar will not make next game will he ? Does his mandatory return to play protocols not exclude him from playing next week? That would mean Farrell at ten Smith or Russell to the bench. Can see Daly replaced by Harris or Aki. No changes for me other than that unless Wyn Jones comes back in.

It’s not that I think VDM did too much wrong per se, but Adams was very unlucky to not be selected anyway and VDM missed a couple of tackles today. I know his six nations stats apparently suggest he doesn’t miss tackles, but it’s just little things that Gatland may think of.

Nothing personal against VDM and if he is selected, I’d obviously back him.

I would have Adams in but it would be for Watson for me . He was anonymous today. I’ve not seen the stats re missed tackles etc. I do like Watson as a player proper rolls Royce unfortunately he just didn’t show it today. Personally I wouldn’t drop any wings there are bigger issues that need solving. Centres and back row spring to mind.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 24 Jul 2021, 11:04 pm

Heuer27 wrote:Yeh they said he failed his HIA in commentary which made me think that he would miss next game. I thought the daily protocols he needs to pass wouldn’t give him enough time even if he passed them.

The earliest you can return is 7 days so he could make next weekend. Anything less than the 7 so if the game next week was on the Friday then it would be a no go. If I was a cynic I'd suggest the HIA was a convenient way of getting a limping Biggar off the pitch and Daly back on it rather than having a makeshift backline for the end of the game. That's not a serious accusation before anybody gets their knickers in a twist.

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Post by RDW Sat 24 Jul 2021, 11:29 pm

Well that's a good result to wake up to! Sounds an intense game.

Looking forward to watching it in the cold light of day and seeing some of the key decisions discussed on here.

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Post by TightHEAD Sat 24 Jul 2021, 11:43 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heuer27 wrote:Yeh they said he failed his HIA in commentary which made me think that he would miss next game. I thought the daily protocols he needs to pass wouldn’t give him enough time even if he passed them.

The earliest you can return is 7 days so he could make next weekend. Anything less than the 7 so if the game next week was on the Friday then it would be a no go. If I was a cynic I'd suggest the HIA was a convenient way of getting a limping Biggar off the pitch and Daly back on it rather than having a makeshift backline for the end of the game. That's not a serious accusation before anybody gets their knickers in a twist.

Gats had been around a bit!

Great game management. Maybe the Saffer waterboy should get his ass up into the stands.
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Post by TightHEAD Sat 24 Jul 2021, 11:46 pm

There must be a rule to say the waterboy has to carry water and not a clipboard onto the pitch!
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Post by TightHEAD Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:04 am

All points scorers apart from Pollard were Gallagher Premiership players.

So in my opinion Marcus Smith would be fine.
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Post by tigertattie Sun 25 Jul 2021, 12:05 am

Player A did this or player B did that

For me that game was decided by discipline. Too many pens from the lions in the first half and then SA returned the favour in the second.

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Post by RDW Sun 25 Jul 2021, 2:57 am

Test match rugby is different. This game made that very plain to see! What a brutal test and totally different from any of the warmup games. For all the talk of an attacking Lions team it was a real slugfest, with neither team really able to make the most of their strike players.

I didn't think there was much in it in the 1st half really, certainly not the Bok dominance I was expecting based on some comments. The Lions were majorly letdown by poor discipline. The Boks were worthy of their lead - they did what they do best and we struggled to work out a response - but it was very much still game on.

2nd Half the Lions really raised the level and the Boks couldn't march it, and had run out of steam. It's the little things that count - the Boks surely knew the Lions would be the fitter team so why fanny about trying to play on at the end of the first half instead of just kicking it out? Extending the length of the game was not to their advantage!

Ultimately I think the Lions were the better team over the 80 and deserved the win.

On the contentious calls, well the first one was so close it was hard to tell either way but I don't think it was forwards or that he was in front of the kicker. For me PSDT did knock on. Hamish Watson should have had a yellow but it was at the bottom end of the scale of severity, but that was a mistake by the ref. I bet if there was a crowd that would have been a yellow.

As for individual performances, the only player to not have a good game was Daly with everyone else playing their part. That kind of game really needed a 13 like Harris or Henshaw - it just wasn't Daly's day.

My player ratings:

Sutherland - 6.5
It's a tough gig being a starting prop against the Boks and he grew into the game. Gave away a few pens but for me they were the classic 50/50 random calls. The one before HT both props went down at the same time - harsh on Sutherland. I can see Wyn Jones replacing him next week if he's fit.

LCD - 6
Lineout want array a few times and that short squint throw was a bad mistake. I think he's a much better impact sub option and he may find that role next week.

Furlong - 6.5
Again it's a tough old ask being a starting prop and he did fine.

AWJ - 7
Not a standout as an individual but he holds the team together.  I'd be a lot more nervous if he wasn't there

Itoje - 8.5
Huge performance. When the big games come he shows he's a big game player.

Lawes - 8.5
Surprising pick perhaps but he did everything that was asked of him and was a big carrier. Absolutely deserves to keep his spot next week.

Curry - 7
An all action display but feck me some of those pens were dumb and directly led to points. He couldn't help himself hitting Faff late - understandable but stupid!

Conan - 8
Another surprise choice but he did everything asked of him - carried hard into heavy traffic. Another who should retain his place.

Price - 7.5
Another good game with outstanding box kicks. One was a bit short but the rest were spot on and led to some real aerial dominance. Large parts of Irish social media seem to think otherwise but I'm not sure what game they were watching! He should start next week again.

Biggar - 6
A quiet game - it sort of passed him by. He's used to being the dominant driver of the team but that doesn't seem to be his role here. Not sure what happened with his injury - there didn't appear to be any head contact.

VDM - 7
Didn't get a huge amount in attack but his kick chase was excellent. He was close to breaking away a few times but called back for earlier infringements. There's been quite a few calls on here to replace him with Adams but it wouldn't be based on that performance. Not sure what missed tackles everyone was seeing either - he overran one kick chase to Le Roux but that's all I saw.  IMO he warranted his selection.

Henshaw - 6.5
We've not seen his 6N form but he was solid in midfield. Made bad choices after his break but it was one of the few line breaks in the game so we'll let him off!

Daly - 5
Smashed in attack, missed tackles, missed kick at goal - not a good display unfortunately. Suspect he'll be on the bench next week.

Watson - 7
I thought he had a decent game. He's all class and made good ground with the ball.

Hogg - 7
Completely solid at the back and marshalled the kicking game well. Didn't get to stretch his legs but we know he can.

Subs - front row made good impact. For all the criticism of Murray and Farrell they were exactly what we needed coming off the bench and did their job well. The back row subs didn't make huge impact but brought plenty energy. Williams didn't get into the game really.

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