South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 31 July

The Oracle wrote:I know my comment was straight after Poorfour’s comment but it wasn’t a response to him (I would have used the quote function!). I guess it was more a response to R!sky who was worried/annoyed that the Lions seemed to change game plan when we were not getting any joy on the wings. Apologies if I’ve misunderstood the post. But if that was the theme then I think the Lions need to be praised for changing tactics mid game. In my opinion it would been madness to see us getting smashed back when the ball went wide and continue to ship the ball out there. SA had our number there, for whatever reason, so it was great to see us change and go down a different path which then saw the game change in our favour. Completely agree that if the personnel are all there to do it then go for it. But we’ve not got settled combinations yet, such is the nature of the Lions tours. I like watching Finn Russell, for example, but chucking him in with new players who have never played with him (training aside) and hoping it all clicks like it sometimes does for Scotland is a big ask. Scotland fans talk about being on Finn’s ‘wavelength’, and that’s sometimes a struggle for his  Scotland teams mates who he plays with lots! Would love it to work more than I’d like to see a Lions team grind out a win, but………I dunno. Is it risky (or R!sky?! Haha sorry  )?

R!skysports wrote:

This is my point, imo they didn't change tactics, but had a plan to boot the ball almost every time. Yes they threw out once or twice, but it seemed up and unders were the plan from the start..which negates the attacking set up he had (and which I had got a little excited about)

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Ruck, if they are to be believed are saying that Gatland has revealed his changes to the match day squad if Biggar cannot play. As expected Farrell goes in at 10, not expected, Marcus Smith comes in at 22 as Russell is still struggling.

sensisball wrote:if LCD can get knocked out in the premiership final, fly 13 hours to SA 6 days later and play off the bench the following week then surely Biggar can "pass" his HIA return to play protocol? After all he wasn't even knocked out last week.

EST wrote:Has anybody seen any of Rassie's video?  Equal parts embarrassing and cringeworthy.

EST wrote:Has anybody seen any of Rassie's video?  Equal parts embarrassing and cringeworthy.

protea438 wrote:

EST wrote:Has anybody seen any of Rassie's video?  Equal parts embarrassing and cringeworthy.

Laws are laws though and should be followed correctly, Where was Rassie incorrect then ?

He is getting a lot of flak for it, but no counter arguments, I am sure Warren Gatland could easily rustle up a video

EST wrote:Has anybody seen any of Rassie's video?  Equal parts embarrassing and cringeworthy.

RDW wrote:You've got to wonder what the Bok players are making of all this. It's either going to create a backs against the wall attitude or serve as a huge distraction. Imagine if he's subjected them to similar ramblings all week at training.

RiscaGame wrote:I did think of watching the video, but then saw it's an hour long. I struggle to believe somebody has put time into that. I hope the Boks aren't too dehydrated, whilst Jaco/Rassie is neglecting his waterboy duties to do this.

It reminds me more of when Rafa Benitez presented his "facts". That was cringey and so is this.

Old Man wrote:Whilst I think Rassie is portraying himself as a whiner here, the video does pose questions.

The dismissive attitude towards Siya is crigeworthy in its own right, and some clips which I haven’t focused on were interesting.

But then Rassie is doing the Springboks no favour here. This will now become the series full of whiners and controversies.

miltonkeynesengland wrote:

Old Man wrote:Whilst I think Rassie is portraying himself as a whiner here, the video does pose questions.

The dismissive attitude towards Siya is crigeworthy in its own right, and some clips which I haven’t focused on were interesting.

But then Rassie is doing the Springboks no favour here. This will now become the series full of whiners and controversies.

If he'd produced a video showing faults for and against SA it would have helped your guys. He'd be getting praise and clarity around decisions that he wants...as it is...it just looks awful.

For Siya this reminds me a lot of Robshaw...he just could never seem to win refs around to his POV. E.g. "not now Christopher" from Owens. Warbs was very good at this..Vermeulen in the WC seemed to have it. Some players just don't seem good at it and if you're the captain it's trouble for your team.

No 7&1/2 wrote:...

It must also be said it's a very lazy presentation; why has Erasmus not done his own set of presentations rather than steal a random guy's off twitter?

protea438 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:I did think of watching the video, but then saw it's an hour long. I struggle to believe somebody has put time into that. I hope the Boks aren't too dehydrated, whilst Jaco/Rassie is neglecting his waterboy duties to do this.

It reminds me more of when Rafa Benitez presented his "facts". That was cringey and so is this.

So what are you basing things on, at least Rassie made the effort. I have more faith in a World Cup winning coach than random people on the internet when dealing with rugby related issues

RiscaGame wrote:

protea438 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:I did think of watching the video, but then saw it's an hour long. I struggle to believe somebody has put time into that. I hope the Boks aren't too dehydrated, whilst Jaco/Rassie is neglecting his waterboy duties to do this.

It reminds me more of when Rafa Benitez presented his "facts". That was cringey and so is this.

So what are you basing things on, at least Rassie made the effort. I have more faith in a World Cup winning coach than random people on the internet when dealing with rugby related issues

Pretty pointless you discussing anything on here then, if people other than Rassie can't offer opinions. Perhaps tweet him instead, seeing as he's quite prolific on there nowadays. Just make sure you choose the right account.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The more I think on it the more I'm amazed he thinks this is a good idea. He could have just pointed out Vunipola's act of picking up De Klerk, Watsons tip and pointed out the very short advantage and got more sympathy and possibly the ear of the next set of officials in about 40 seconds. Meanwhile most watching will be saying well you've ignored a tonne of stuff here including things from the clips like the South African lock flying off his feet at a ruck while moaning Itoje left is off his feet.

It must also be said it's a very lazy presentation; why has Erasmus not done his own set of presentations rather than steal a random guy's off twitter?

EST wrote:

RDW wrote:You've got to wonder what the Bok players are making of all this. It's either going to create a backs against the wall attitude or serve as a huge distraction. Imagine if he's subjected them to similar ramblings all week at training.

This series has honestly left me feeling pretty scunnered with the state of rugby just now:  Partisan bickering from pundits, clickbait rugby twitter accounts producing nonsense, fairly turgid play and a World Cup winning coach whining to whoever will listen about refereeing decisions - it's all extremely boring.  This is all being conducted against a backdrop of global pandemic and civic unrest in the host country - we should be feckin' delighted there is a tour at all and that we're privileged enough to watch it.  

RDW wrote:

EST wrote:

RDW wrote:You've got to wonder what the Bok players are making of all this. It's either going to create a backs against the wall attitude or serve as a huge distraction. Imagine if he's subjected them to similar ramblings all week at training.

This series has honestly left me feeling pretty scunnered with the state of rugby just now:  Partisan bickering from pundits, clickbait rugby twitter accounts producing nonsense, fairly turgid play and a World Cup winning coach whining to whoever will listen about refereeing decisions - it's all extremely boring.  This is all being conducted against a backdrop of global pandemic and civic unrest in the host country - we should be feckin' delighted there is a tour at all and that we're privileged enough to watch it.  

Agree with this. Unless the 2nd and 3rd tests are absolute humdingers, this series isn't going to be remembered for the rugby.

I also agree that if this is the future of top level rugby (all the social media guff, public bashing from coaches etc) I'm not looking forward to it.

Rugby Fan wrote:For instance, when Maro Itoje goes for a turnover, he often won't try to lift the ball. Instead, he pushes it into the turf. This has the double benefit of letting him lean, without looking like he's going off his feet, and also stops the attacking side from getting the ball away. To the referee, it can look like Itoje is trying to get the ball, while it is not being released by the attacking side.

lostinwales wrote:As long as it does not involve deliberate injury rugby has always been about what you can get away with instead of playing to the rules.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:For instance, when Maro Itoje goes for a turnover, he often won't try to lift the ball. Instead, he pushes it into the turf. This has the double benefit of letting him lean, without looking like he's going off his feet, and also stops the attacking side from getting the ball away. To the referee, it can look like Itoje is trying to get the ball, while it is not being released by the attacking side.

This was the old Rory Best way of winning turnovers. Bodyweight on the ball appeal to ref, no one was going to be able to move him once he was clamped on. If the opportunity arose get the forearms on the floor for extra purchase. He took his career to another level with that technique. Itoje is no fool, he'll have watched what the officials like to penalise pre game and then try to play to the ref, he really does play right on the edge. He used to be amazing at using his boot to flick the ball out the ruck before that was banned as well.

There's been a big crackdown in the Prem on that sort of turnover and now it's a case of no lifting motion, no reward. Perhaps we'll see more of that this weekend from the officiating team. Got to say I thought the officials were consistent at the breakdown and both sides moaning about the officials is normally a sure sign they did a good job.

protea438 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:I did think of watching the video, but then saw it's an hour long. I struggle to believe somebody has put time into that. I hope the Boks aren't too dehydrated, whilst Jaco/Rassie is neglecting his waterboy duties to do this.

It reminds me more of when Rafa Benitez presented his "facts". That was cringey and so is this.

So what are you basing things on, at least Rassie made the effort. I have more faith in a World Cup winning coach than random people on the internet when dealing with rugby related issues

Irish Londoner wrote:

protea438 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:I did think of watching the video, but then saw it's an hour long. I struggle to believe somebody has put time into that. I hope the Boks aren't too dehydrated, whilst Jaco/Rassie is neglecting his waterboy duties to do this.

It reminds me more of when Rafa Benitez presented his "facts". That was cringey and so is this.

So what are you basing things on, at least Rassie made the effort. I have more faith in a World Cup winning coach than random people on the internet when dealing with rugby related issues

The words "Sir Clive Woodward"

No 7&1/2 wrote:McBride has just read out a prepared statement re Biggar's concussion protocols after Jones updated yesterday that Biggar had trained well all week. Did not answer the journalists question however on whether this meant that Biggar had trained or whether it was just a turn of phrase. Sounds like the Lions are playing fast and loose on health.

THis is from Walesonline on the Jones quotes yesterday:

How is Dan Biggar? Has he completed his return-to-play protocols after a HIA?

"I wasn’t aware he was carrying anything. As I can see, he has trained fully.

"I’m not part of the medical team so I can’t give you a full answer on that. The squad as a whole is important."

Has he trained much?

"As I already said, yes."




Confirmed that Faletau is the openside cover.

EST wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:McBride has just read out a prepared statement re Biggar's concussion protocols after Jones updated yesterday that Biggar had trained well all week. Did not answer the journalists question however on whether this meant that Biggar had trained or whether it was just a turn of phrase. Sounds like the Lions are playing fast and loose on health.

THis is from Walesonline on the Jones quotes yesterday:

How is Dan Biggar? Has he completed his return-to-play protocols after a HIA?

"I wasn’t aware he was carrying anything. As I can see, he has trained fully.

"I’m not part of the medical team so I can’t give you a full answer on that. The squad as a whole is important."

Has he trained much?

"As I already said, yes."




Confirmed that Faletau is the openside cover.

It's a very bad look, and really strange the captain doesn't know the starting 10 suffered a concussion.

The Oracle wrote:And thirdly, a number of posters questioned exactly where Dan Biggar picked up the head injury because no one seemed to see it and thought it might have been a bluff to allow Daly back on the pitch (which he couldn’t do if Biggar had a ‘normal’ injury).

The Oracle wrote:

EST wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:McBride has just read out a prepared statement re Biggar's concussion protocols after Jones updated yesterday that Biggar had trained well all week. Did not answer the journalists question however on whether this meant that Biggar had trained or whether it was just a turn of phrase. Sounds like the Lions are playing fast and loose on health.

THis is from Walesonline on the Jones quotes yesterday:

How is Dan Biggar? Has he completed his return-to-play protocols after a HIA?

"I wasn’t aware he was carrying anything. As I can see, he has trained fully.

"I’m not part of the medical team so I can’t give you a full answer on that. The squad as a whole is important."

Has he trained much?

"As I already said, yes."




Confirmed that Faletau is the openside cover.

It's a very bad look, and really strange the captain doesn't know the starting 10 suffered a concussion.

Your main problem there is taking something WalesOnline has printed and assumed it is true/accurate. It’s a compete rag that often just copies and pastes stuff from other sites. I’d take it all with a pinch of salt. Plus, as others have said there is an element of smokescreens from the Lions. And thirdly, a number of posters questioned exactly where Dan Biggar picked up the head injury because no one seemed to see it and thought it might have been a bluff to allow Daly back on the pitch (which he couldn’t do if Biggar had a ‘normal’ injury). Overall, I’d say there is more to this than a ‘bad look’ from the captain.