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South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 31 July

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Post by George Carlin Sun 25 Jul 2021, 9:23 am

First topic message reminder :

 South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 31 July - Page 14 A_10                   South Africa v British & Irish Lions, 31 July - Page 14 Lions_10                
SOUTH AFRICA BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Saturday 31 July
KO: 18:00 SAST / 17:00 UK / 20:00 Dubai  Very Happy
Cape Town Stadium (Newlands), Cape Town
Sky Sports Main Event

Referee: Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Nic Berry (Australia), Mathieu Raynal (France)
TMO: Marius Jonker ( Erm )

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA:
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 63 caps, 60 pts (12t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse) – 15 caps, 40 pts (8t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 16 caps, 15 pts (3t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Munster) – 48 caps, 30 pts (6t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 15 caps, 70 pts (14t)
10 – Handré Pollard (vice-captain, Montpellier) – 50 caps, 477pts (6t, 78c, 93p, 4d)
09 – Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks) – 31 caps, 25 pts (5t)

08 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 1 cap, 0 pts
07 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers) – 57 caps, 25 pts (5t)
06 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 52 caps, 30 pts (6t)
05 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 41 caps, 5pts (1t)
04 – Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) – 87 caps, 15 pts (3t)
03 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 40 caps, 5pts (1t)
02 – Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers) – 38 caps, 40 pts (8t)
01 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 49 caps, 5pts (1t)

16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 35 caps, 30 pts (6t)
17 – Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) – 44 caps, 5 pts (1t)
18 – Vincent Koch (Saracens) – 21 caps, 0 pts
19 – Lood de Jager (Sale Sharks) – 46 caps, 25 pts (5t)
20 – Marco van Staden (Vodacom Bulls) – 3 caps, 0 pts
21 – Kwagga Smith (Yamaha Júbilo) – 8 caps, 5 pts (1t)
22 – Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers) – 12 caps, 25 pts (5t)
23 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 8 caps, 5pts (1t)

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS:
15. Stuart Hogg (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
09. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790

01. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
02. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
03. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
04. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
05. Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761
06. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
07. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
08. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

16. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
17. Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
20. Taulupe Faletau (Bath Rugby, Wales) #779
21. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, England) #780
23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822

PREVIEW:


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 29 Jul 2021, 8:43 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 9:59 am

alive555 wrote:this test is being completely overshadowed by bad sportsmanship

Erasmus should be banned for a year. Odious individual.

Very bad tempered and what he was probably looking for.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 9:59 am

protea438 wrote:I am not going through all the posts, but can someone summarize how many red cards the dastardly Boks should have got and how many laws has this thread rewritten. Thanks

Laws rewritten?

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 10:02 am

protea438 wrote:I am not going through all the posts, but can someone summarize how many red cards the dastardly Boks should have got and how many laws has this thread rewritten. Thanks

Kolbe could have had a two by himself. Fafs flying shoulder to Murrays face should have been reviewed. Those were the main ones for me. I would have given Duhan a yellow or red for his tackle on DuToit and Itoje a penalty or yellow for kneeling on DeAllendes head.

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Post by alive555 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 10:35 am

Willie Le Roux now claiming Hogg bit him.

Hogg categorically denies it

"Following speculation that has surfaced online, I would like to categorically deny any foul play in last night’s game. I would never bite an opponent and I am annoyed and upset by this unsubstantiated accusation."

Now willie let's see the mark.

Got it?

Didn't think so....

This team is vile

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Post by TightHEAD Sun 01 Aug 2021, 10:37 am

The TMO was to blame again.

The ref wasn't showed Fafs swinging arm to neck flying tackle, the TMO had said nothing in it.

It's a joke.
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Post by George Carlin Sun 01 Aug 2021, 10:41 am

Okay so at the risk of taking my life into my hands and starting a tsunami of jingoism and bile, can anyone who saw the match (because I didn’t) explain for me what the gulf in sides was due to?

Press reports were strangely non committal in their criticism of our forwards which is weird because that’s where we seemed to get crushed in the second half.
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Post by lostinwales Sun 01 Aug 2021, 10:43 am

The Itoje thing is not the kind of event that you ever see picked up. There are the shots of him with his leg across the SA player but there is no context. If there is more footage that makes his actions leading to that suspect then what happened should be reviewed.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 01 Aug 2021, 10:52 am

A question always hanging in the air was: how will the game go, if the Boks don't make as many mistakes as last week, and don't fade in the second half? Not well for us, was the answer.

Unfortunately, we saw the Lions didn't have any way to change the shape of the game. Bringing on Farrell for Biggar was just bringing more of the same. Gatland could have tried pairing Farrell with Biggar, for double playmakers. However, our back three were all having such poor games, that didn't seem like it would pay dividends.

Williams was the obvious missing piece. I also heard some pundits saying before the first Test that Josh Adams is the best kick chaser in the squad. If that's true, he would surely be worth a shot, if that continues to be in our gameplan. The kicks put up by Biggar and Murray were frequently contestable, but we didn't recover them. Our favoured tactic was to slap the ball back, instead of trying to gather it. It seems as if the Boks cottoned onto that quickly, and were far better at anticipating where the loose ball was going to go.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:01 am

George Carlin wrote:Okay so at the risk of taking my life into my hands and starting a tsunami of jingoism and bile, can anyone who saw the match (because I didn’t) explain for me what the gulf in sides was due to?

Press reports were strangely non committal in their criticism of our forwards which is weird because that’s where we seemed to get crushed in the second half.


Certainly Sir, I can do that for you, the difference was due to 27 - 9.

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Post by jimbopip Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:06 am

Morning peeps Hug

Well, an awful lot to process after yesterday. My thoughts may spill out like an upended tin of Heinz spaghetti but I'll try and be coherent.
In many ways this was a mirror image of last week; the side that won the first half was gradually squeezed out and ended up losing the second half convincingly. Although "convincingly" is probably an understatement 21-0 indeed!

Gats, the coaching team, called it totally wrong. Whereas last week they started with the intention to play at pace and with width; Price and Daly being the obvious examples, and then went for control, Murray and Farrell being the obvious examples, this week they looked to start with the more conservative gameplan. The Murray-Biggar axis never looked like moving the Boks defence around or tiring them out. throughout the first half the Boks held onto the ball for longer than the Lions did and it was the Lions who were tiring rather than the Boks. Interestingly the Boks ran everything off 9, and kicked less than us, and moved the Lions defence around more thus making our forwards work more in defence than their forwards had to.
Henshaw-Harris has a lot of positives going for it but creative distribution isn't one of them. The Lions attacking strategy seemed to be; box kick and chase box kick and chase, Henshaw crash at 12, repeat until the Boks drop through exhaustion. Our wingers are getting a lot of stick today but they were largely bystanders yesterday. Either they weren't able to get to the box kicks or they never received a pass. Similarly, Hogg never popped up at first receiver or hit the line when a gap had been created. DVDM never came off his wing to attack the 10-12 channel thus creating space for his centres. I don't think any other back three yesterday would have fared any better; they would have been following the same gameplan and would have been similarly marginalised.
The plan to introduce Price, Farrell and Daly on the hour was obviously to up the tempo against a tired defence and take the game away from them picard By the time the changes were made we were chasing a lost game and it was our pack who were struggling to keep up.

The coaches' meeting last night would have been "interesting". As an aside, I didn't see Toonie on the TV pictures yesterday. Was he at the match? I don't think the players were the problem yesterday, I think the strategy was inherently flawed. The Boks defence was never seriously troubled, the back three were never involved, there was no plan B. I imagine that the main talking point would be around, "We can't take them on up front without the threat of attacking them in the backs but we can't keep them guessing if we play the same game as we have in the first two tests."

That sounds clumsy; if all we have behind the scrum is; box kick, crash ball 12 then the Boks will put a green wall up across the 10-13 channel and man the barricades all day long. If we are to beat them we need to move their pack around the field and ask different questions of their defence when we have the ball in hand.

Problems?
Aki or Henshaw? Same player essentially. Crash ball all day.
Harris or Daly? One is an excellent defender, one is a very good attacking/distributing 13. Neither have been given the ball in enough space to attack the Boks defence.
Biggar or Farrell ? The Boks seem to have worked out both of these "controlling" 10's .
Back row? outplayed yesterday. Neither Faletau or Beirne made any real difference when they came on. But then they were chosen for the tour in large part because of the damage they can do in the wide channels....but if the ball isn't being moved wide....

There needs to be a more ambitious gameplan. They need to attack the Boks from the first minute, just not in the 10-12 channel or through kicking the ball to them and hoping for a break. The same 23 won't work but is there the will to produce a creative strategy and the players to implement it?


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Post by eirebilly Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:21 am

jimbopip wrote:
Problems?
Aki or Henshaw? Same player essentially. Crash ball all day.
Harris or Daly? One is an excellent defender, one is a very good attacking/distributing 13. Neither have been given the ball in enough space to attack the Boks defence.
Biggar or Farrell ? The Boks seem to have worked out both of these "controlling" 10's .



Morning brother,

For me it is Price 9 and Smith at 10
Farrell or AKI 12 (i would go for Farrell at 12 if Smith is at 10) with Henshaw at 13
Daly or VDM at 11 with Williams at 14
Hogg 15 (you could leave VDM at 11 and bring in Williams at 15)
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Post by eirebilly Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:24 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
Murray was literally late to one breakdown, he has never had the quickest distribution but he had a decent game. Created the Lions only realistic scoring chance with a chip for Henshaw and his kicking and passing was good.

Thought Lawes has been good too, reliable, hardworking and has taken his chance but Im sure Beirne would have been too had he been given a chance.

Murray was late to more than one breakdown, this led to at least 2 turnovers in the first half.

Ye get what ye get with Murray but if ye want speed at the breakdown and speed of distribution, he is not your man. He is perfect at closing out games when in front but is not the starting force he once was.
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Post by RDW Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:28 am

Read a stat earlier that Harris and Am received 8 passes between them all game.

That pretty much sums things up.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:30 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Farrell and Smith shouldnt be on the tour. Theyre not up to it. The series would be already won if Sexton was selected. Big mistake by Gatland.

Back to comparing the guy who played against the one who didn't on best form. There are some serious questions over Farrell being on tour, but Sexton isn't the player he used to be, and its not the biggest surprise he didn't make it.

Based on what? He was excellent in the 6 nations. Probably the best 10. This tour was made for a physical and tactical 10 like him.

He didn’t get picked because he’s always injured.

Unlike the other 10s and the captain AWJ who are never injured? It was a dumb call from Gatland which he will regret Im sure. He had nothing to lose at all in picking him. Sexton like AWJ was in a position to leave it all out there knowing retirement was coming.

Unlike the other 10s is correct. Sexton has been injured most of the last two seasons. The other 10s haven’t. We couldn’t foresee them or AWJ getting injured either so not sure why you’re comparing? Especially with AWJ, who’s hardly been injured throughout his career. Made of durable stuff that guy, much unlike some of the posters around here. I wouldn’t disagree that Gatland has made some dumb calls with selections though.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:31 am

RDW wrote:Read a stat earlier that Harris and Am received 8 passes between them all game.

That pretty much sums things up.

It wasn’t a game for backs at all, and as a result we’ll probably see a few of them dropped. It seems impossible to create space against South Africa.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:33 am

Hogg didn’t bite, Itoje’s shin made contact with de Allende as he got up. Proper gaslighting from the narcissistic South Africans. They’re very good at covering themselves in glory on Lions tours.

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Post by RDW Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:37 am

The problem with the trial by social media is it's all stills - I'm sure you could take a picture of multiple incidents in a game and it looks bad.

FWIW Itoje and Hogg are potentially in trouble here but I've not seen enough replays (i.e. it's all pictures)

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Post by RDW Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:40 am

Also worth saying there appeared to be major bad blood between Hogg and Le Roux all game - I haven't seen Hogg that worked up in a very long time.

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Post by LordDowlais Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:53 am

I said it last week, and I will say it again this week, the back three were awful again, I'm sorry, but we need to drop Hogg and VDM next week and replace them with Liam Williams and Josh Adams. Hogg was like a turnstile for there first try, and his work under the high ball was suspect all game and the less said about VDM the better, he should be dropped next week for that trip alone, Watson keeps his place by the skin of his teeth, at least he comes inside looking for work.

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Post by George Carlin Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:54 am

So it’s time for some Finnsanity? Very Happy
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Post by LordDowlais Sun 01 Aug 2021, 11:58 am

George Carlin wrote:So it’s time for some Finnsanity? Very Happy

I would deffo have him on the bench instead of Farrell, when he came on for Biggar we looked rubbish. Also, anyone notice Farrell when he was chasing his own kicks ? He did not challenge for a single one, and was leading in with his shoulder.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:07 pm

So, I ended up doing an almost double shift yesterday and haven't seen anything but the score.  Will watch this afternoon.  Sounds like the Boks took the Lions to the woodshed in the second half and that was that.  My old man told me it seemed we didn't get the Gatland from the Australia tour, rather the Gatland who coached Waikato last year in the NZ Super Rugby equivalent (they took the collar for that season).

Is it right Lions were outmuscled and out thought?  I saw stats a few mins ago as I eat breakfast and (from ESPN) Harris had 3 touches, Watson had 3 touches, and VDM only 1.  This would not be a recipe for beating the Boks.  Plus 15 blydi pens against the Lions??????

Gatland has big boy decisions to make for his last test as Lions coach, possibly the biggest decisions of his career.  And maybe the last match of his career. This is completely career defining and professional legacy stuff.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
George Carlin wrote:So it’s time for some Finnsanity? Very Happy

I would deffo have him on the bench instead of Farrell, when he came on for Biggar we looked rubbish. Also, anyone notice Farrell when he was chasing his own kicks ? He did not challenge for a single one, and was leading in with his shoulder.

Biggar was awful.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:18 pm

doctor_grey wrote:So, I ended up doing an almost double shift yesterday and haven't seen anything but the score.  Will watch this afternoon.  Sounds like the Boks took the Lions to the woodshed in the second half and that was that.  My old man told me it seemed we didn't get the Gatland from the Australia tour, rather the Gatland who coached Waikato last year in the NZ Super Rugby equivalent (they took the collar for that season).

Is it right Lions were outmuscled and out thought?  I saw stats a few mins ago as I eat breakfast and (from ESPN) Harris had 3 touches, Watson had 3 touches, and VDM only 1.  This would not be a recipe for beating the Boks.  Plus 15 blydi pens against the Lions??????

Gatland has big boy decisions to make for his last test as Lions coach, possibly the biggest decisions of his career.  And maybe the last match of his career.  This is completely career defining and professional legacy stuff.

Treat yourself and give it a miss! Gatland will definitely earn his money this week. Lots of big decisions after that. He's dropped previous quotes that it felt like Australia where they were done after raising themselves for the second test, can't see that myself. Yes SA were up for it and went too far a lot of the time but they'll be confident their pack can replicate it next week.

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Post by jimbopip Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:18 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
George Carlin wrote:So it’s time for some Finnsanity? Very Happy

I would deffo have him on the bench instead of Farrell, when he came on for Biggar we looked rubbish. Also, anyone notice Farrell when he was chasing his own kicks ? He did not challenge for a single one, and was leading in with his shoulder.

Biggar was awful.

Again gentlemen, is it the players or the plan? Was Biggar terrible in the decisions he made or was he just following orders to the letter?

I know I alluded to it earlier but I can't imagine Toonie ever sending a team out to face the Boks with such a limited game plan.

The statistic that Am and Harris received the ball 8 times between them Shocked ...which side would have been happier with that before kick off?


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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:21 pm

jimbopip wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
George Carlin wrote:So it’s time for some Finnsanity? Very Happy

I would deffo have him on the bench instead of Farrell, when he came on for Biggar we looked rubbish. Also, anyone notice Farrell when he was chasing his own kicks ? He did not challenge for a single one, and was leading in with his shoulder.

Biggar was awful.

Again gentlemen,  is it the players or the plan? Was Biggar terrible in the decisions he made or was he just following orders to the letter?

I know I alluded to it earlier but I can't imagine Toonie ever sending a team out to face the Boks with such a limited game plan.

The statistic that Am and Harris received the ball 8 times between them  Shocked ...which side would have been happier with that before kick off?


Both. The plan barely worked last week but a lot of media said the result justified it. It was screaming out to have a bit more adventure. Given the amount of stick that england and Farrell get with sticking to the coaches plan that isnt working I think its fair to point the finger at the players and captain here. It's tempting to throw Russell in and say do your thing but given his limited training and how we've played so far doesn't exactly seem fair to him. Tough, tough choices.

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:37 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Farrell and Smith shouldnt be on the tour. Theyre not up to it. The series would be already won if Sexton was selected. Big mistake by Gatland.

Back to comparing the guy who played against the one who didn't on best form. There are some serious questions over Farrell being on tour, but Sexton isn't the player he used to be, and its not the biggest surprise he didn't make it.

Based on what? He was excellent in the 6 nations. Probably the best 10. This tour was made for a physical and tactical 10 like him.

He didn’t get picked because he’s always injured.

Unlike the other 10s and the captain AWJ who are never injured? It was a dumb call from Gatland which he will regret Im sure. He had nothing to lose at all in picking him. Sexton like AWJ was in a position to leave it all out there knowing retirement was coming.

Unlike the other 10s is correct. Sexton has been injured most of the last two seasons. The other 10s haven’t. We couldn’t foresee them or AWJ getting injured either so not sure why you’re comparing? Especially with AWJ, who’s hardly been injured throughout his career. Made of durable stuff that guy, much unlike some of the posters around here. I wouldn’t disagree that Gatland has made some dumb calls with selections though.

Sexton played in the 6 nations. He was injured for the France game only. Nice try.

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Post by protea438 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:39 pm

alive555 wrote:Willie Le Roux now claiming Hogg bit him.

Hogg categorically denies it

"Following speculation that has surfaced online, I would like to categorically deny any foul play in last night’s game. I would never bite an opponent and I am annoyed and upset by this unsubstantiated accusation."

Now willie let's see the mark.

Got it?

Didn't think so....

This team is vile

Look from the 2009 tour we kind of knew how vile and disgusting the British and Irish Lions were, i guess the mindset hasnt changed in 2021, I guess you are correct

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Post by LordDowlais Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:44 pm

protea438 wrote:
alive555 wrote:Willie Le Roux now claiming Hogg bit him.

Hogg categorically denies it

"Following speculation that has surfaced online, I would like to categorically deny any foul play in last night’s game. I would never bite an opponent and I am annoyed and upset by this unsubstantiated accusation."

Now willie let's see the mark.

Got it?

Didn't think so....

This team is vile

Look from the 2009 tour we kind of knew how vile and disgusting the British and Irish Lions were, i guess the mindset hasnt changed in 2021, I guess you are correct

Yeah, your lot didnt cover themselves in glory in 2009 either, I remember Burger gouging a player as he lay on the ground, and getting away with it.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:45 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:

Sexton played in the 6 nations. He was injured for the France game only. Nice try.

I'm not trying anything, I genuinely just remember him being injured often. If he didn't miss a game through injury then we would go off injured. He was mostly injured with Leinster over the last two seasons as well. I think he's an all time great, but the selectors were reluctant to pick him because of his recent injury record that's all.

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Post by George Carlin Sun 01 Aug 2021, 12:54 pm

Gatland can take comfort in that whatever his plan was for Test 2, it definitively did not work.

That gives him genuine leeway to do something different. It may be difficult for people who have not watched him play for Racing over the past 2 years, but all joking aside, a stodgy forward game with a never ending kick chase is made for Finn Russell to vary and disrupt.

I have no doubt that VdM has had his chips (2 games in a row with a mistake worthy of cards) but even if you replace any two of the back 3 with Williams and Adams (and it is not clear at all who deserved to be replaced), without a proper attacking platform to use them, are we really any more likely to be winning the game?

The biggest worry has to be the lack of a forward platform. If we're going to be living off scraps then we need to attack with it. I for one would rather lose the last game 5 tries to 4 that just endlessly kick possession away as our pack gets minced.
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Post by BigGee Sun 01 Aug 2021, 1:18 pm

This thread is in danger of being locked down again and if that is the case, it will stay locked. Please stop trading insults about hypothetical internet based allegations. I am sure if there is any substance to it, then we will be hearing about some evidence in the very near future

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Post by Duty281 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 1:21 pm

South Africa are just trying to deflect attention away from their own foul play with these pointless and baseless accusations. Good job Reynal is the referee next week, he won't take any nonsense.

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Post by alive555 Sun 01 Aug 2021, 1:27 pm

Duty281 wrote:South Africa are just trying to deflect attention away from their own foul play with these pointless and baseless accusations. Good job Reynal is the referee next week, he won't take any nonsense.

hopefully this will may off the idea south africa should join the 6n . Not welcome should be the message

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Post by eirebilly Sun 01 Aug 2021, 2:30 pm

Personally, i thought that there was foul play from both sides during both tests so far. I would not consider SA to be any worse than the Lions.

What i do not like is the play acting. That is really creeping into the game at a rate of knots. Kolbe was very bad for this yesterday after he was tripped.
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Post by Old Man Sun 01 Aug 2021, 2:32 pm

Gentlemen, this conversation of who transgressed the most, who deserved more red cards and yellow cards is starting to become just a little pathetic.

You are rugby men, behave like it.

Gatland bargained on a few things.

Firstly that the Springboks would tire early, that didn’t happen.

Secondly the Lion set piece would dominate as they did last week, that didn’t happen.

Thirdly he expected to win the aerial battle, they lost that 10-22.

He hoped by selecting a big strong fast wing opposite of Kolbe to get opportunities. That didn’t happen.

Instead the Springboks improved on a couple of things having an extra match in their season’s development.

Their set piece improved, their aerial skills improved, their accuracy improved, their maul execution improved, their Bomb squad made a big improvement, their technical scrumming improved, and they showed enough variety to create a few scoring chances.

They still need to work on their discipline and unforced errors.

The Lions on the other hand has somehow lost their set piece dominance and the aerial skills they had last weekend. They showed nothing on attack other than those huge bombs in the SA 22 and it failed.

If we can all be adults here and remember this is ultimately about the rugby. The alternative is we can behave like Rassie and Gatland, and then instead of enjoying rugby we take a drink every time we think someone deserves a card.

Single shot of whatever your poison is for a yellow, and double shot for every red.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 01 Aug 2021, 2:39 pm

Old Man wrote:Gentlemen, this conversation of who transgressed the most, who deserved more red cards and yellow cards is starting to become just a little pathetic.

You are rugby men, behave like it.

Gatland bargained on a few things.

Firstly that the Springboks would tire early, that didn’t happen.

Secondly the Lion set piece would dominate as they did last week, that didn’t happen.

Thirdly he expected to win the aerial battle, they lost that 10-22.

He hoped by selecting a big strong fast wing opposite of Kolbe to get opportunities. That didn’t happen.

Instead the Springboks improved on a couple of things having an extra match in their season’s development.

Their set piece improved, their aerial skills improved, their accuracy improved, their maul execution improved, their Bomb squad made a big improvement, their technical scrumming improved, and they showed enough variety to create a few scoring chances.

They still need to work on their discipline and unforced errors.

The Lions on the other hand has somehow lost their set piece dominance and the aerial skills they had last weekend. They showed nothing on attack other than those huge bombs in the SA 22 and it failed.

If we can all be adults here and remember this is ultimately about the rugby. The alternative is we can behave like Rassie and Gatland, and then instead of enjoying rugby we take a drink every time we think someone deserves a card.

Single shot of whatever your poison is for a yellow, and double shot for every red.

Good post

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Post by Heaf Sun 01 Aug 2021, 2:52 pm

Duty281 wrote:'Eyes on the ball' is irrelevant. The officiating team gave yellow because they believed Murray 'landed on his back'. Quite how they came to such a conclusion is beyond me.

Same way they decided there was no head contact in the Faf incident in the 'A' game Erm

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sun 01 Aug 2021, 2:52 pm

alive555 wrote:this test tour is being completely overshadowed by bad sportsmanship

Let’s just call it as it is, the whole thing has descended into farce

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Post by cb Sun 01 Aug 2021, 3:46 pm

Irrespective of whether Erasmus's comments influenced the referee or not - one effect it did have was to slow everything down.  Almost every decision was thought about and reviewed. This did not help the Lions at all.  However the Lions lost because they were the second best team on the day (and lucky to come second).

In 2009, I thought that second test match was one of the best matches of the decade.  I think this match will be one of the worse of this decade.

The Lions desperately need to play some more rugby next Saturday.

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Post by Newsilure Sun 01 Aug 2021, 4:54 pm

Last week we caught the Boks cold and beat them at their own game, yesterday we tried to do it again and they proved conclusively that, when they get their intensity right, we cannot beat them at their own game.

Good news is we can change and change radically at that. Yesterday Biggar was clearly playing to instructions and only made 3 passes, that's not normal for him or any Flyhalf, in his last game for Wales he passed 31 times. So, its pretty clear that a different plan can be implemented.

Next week i would have Biggar focussing on passing to Aki outside of him or Adams/Watson coming on his inside, lets do something that ties up the Boks in rucks and mauls so that we create space either for runners like Conan or Faletau out wide or to kick into for the Wings and Williams to chase.

We also need to start winning some turnovers at the breakdown apart from Itoje no forward has been doing this, Beirne is probably our best loose forward at  turnovers so he needs to start and Lawes, who was brilliant in first test and good in first half yesterday,  should come of the bench. Alternatively we could focus on significantly slowing the breakdown down to give time for our defence to organise, probably the best we have for at that is Navidi.

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Post by TightHEAD Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:02 pm

One thing is certain after this tour, SA must not be allowed to join the 6 Nations, too much negative anti rugby bitching from their coaches, players and supporters.

Hopefully World Rugby will step in at some point and take action against them. It's just not rugby.
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Post by Northgrill Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:03 pm

The irony of Itoje kneeling before the game for a protest that was sparked by a cop kneeling on someones neck.

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Post by hugehandoff Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:07 pm

Missed the match as flying to see family in San Francisco so watched it later on knowing the result. Just thought it an appalling advert for the game. Two very negative sides with plenty of niggle and no skill or flair. The selection for the 1st test was much better tactically in principle in trying to play with tempo and move the Saffers around. This was dire. It felt like we had more on breaks waiting for injuries and reviews to happen. No continuity at all. And the values of rugby appear to have been tossed aside when under pressure. Erasmus a joke but the standard of officiating not good but the whinging even worse.
Next Sat we must at least try to play some rugby and ask a few questions. I don’t suggest we play silly rugby in the wrong areas but play with tempo and creativity when we can.

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Post by hugehandoff Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:09 pm

Northgrill wrote:The irony of Itoje kneeling before the game for a protest that was sparked by a cop kneeling on someones neck.

Totally ridiculous comment. No comparison at all. This is a rugby match and of course no way he knelt on his neck on purpose. He should still have been punished for this as clearly dangerous but careless and not malicious. I don’t see him as a dirty player just a hard one.

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Post by EST Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:19 pm

Congratulations to the Boks for the win, but this series is going downhill rapidly - a bitter, nasty and uninspiring spectacle that will be doing nothing to win over the uninitiated - far as I'm concerned it's rugby at it's absolute worst.

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Post by Northgrill Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:26 pm

hugehandoff wrote:
Northgrill wrote:The irony of Itoje kneeling before the game for a protest that was sparked by a cop kneeling on someones neck.

Totally ridiculous comment. No comparison at all. This is a rugby match and of course no way he knelt on his neck on purpose. He should still have been punished for this as clearly dangerous but careless and not malicious. I don’t see him as a dirty player just a hard one.

Ah come on. He’s one of my favourite players and one of the better performers yesterday but that was pure sh1thousery. He’s an elite athlete. He knew what he was doing. What was worse was how he tried to appeal to the referee for a penalty by diving after DDA confronted him on it. You’d expect if from a continental footballer but not from one of the best second rows in the world.


Last edited by Northgrill on Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by hugehandoff Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:29 pm

Northgrill wrote:
hugehandoff wrote:
Northgrill wrote:The irony of Itoje kneeling before the game for a protest that was sparked by a cop kneeling on someones neck.

Totally ridiculous comment. No comparison at all. This is a rugby match and of course no way he knelt on his neck on purpose. He should still have been punished for this as clearly dangerous but careless and not malicious. I don’t see him as a dirty player just a hard one.

Ah come on. He’s one of my favourite players and one of the better performers yesterday but that was pure Poopie. He’s an elite athlete. He knew what he was doing. What was worse was how he tried to appeal to the referee for a penalty by diving after DDA confronted him on it. You’d expect if from a continental footballer but not from one of the best second rows in the world.

I agree re Itoje’s reaction to being shoved. Very poor but still not good to link him to the USA cop. Inappropriate.

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Post by Old Man Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:35 pm

Jaden Hendrikse has been called into the Bok squad as there is concern over Faf de Klerk injury.

Hendrikse has been performing well for the Sharks and is an exciting youngster.

I doubt he will get game time as Reinach and Jantjies are in line before him.

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Post by Mr Bounce Sun 01 Aug 2021, 5:38 pm

If I were the one making changes, I'd go for something a little bit different. What is the point of having great expansive players on the tour if they won't be used?? I would be looking to replace the entire back 3 with Adams at 11, Williams at 15 and LRZ at 14. They are a cracking unit, safe under the high ball and the two wingers have genuine pace and a nose for the try line. Both Duhan and Hogg were poor in the air.

Price has to start again at 9. I felt that Murray was so one-dimensionally slow we barely had any likelihood of quick ball. The pack were ok, if a little flat, so why not inject some major pace by having Simmonds start at 8?

And as for the 10s, starting Smith or Russell has the potential to inject a huge amount of pace and intrigue to the game.

It won't happen, but if we use the same tactics as Saturday, it'll be another 15-20 point loss, so we may as well roll the dice.

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