South Africa vs British and Irish Lions 7th August

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SOUTH AFRICA v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Saturday 7th August
KO: 18:00 SAST / 17:00 UK / 02:00 Australia  
Cape Town Stadium
Sky Sports Main Event

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA
A very large bunch of blokes.

WAZZER'S WIZARDS

15. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833
14. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836
13. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland) #837
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
09. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

01. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842
02. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
03. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
04. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
05. Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761
06. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826
07. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
08. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
18. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
19. Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852
20. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849
21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790
22. Finn Russell (Racing 92, Scotland) #835
23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822

chris_501 wrote:

I've always said that the loss in the WC final to SA has spooked Eddie Jones into believing that physical dominance is the only way, I get the feeling the same is happening to Gats.

I think you can create a team to outplay SA...but this is almost impossible with a scratch side like the Lions. You just can't create the combinations in a month.

There is two possibly three players that need changing, and that is the back 3. All this nonsense about them not being given a chance is just that, nonsense.

Hogg was very erratic under the high ball, and he was creamed for SA's first try. VDM just doesn't do enough, sorry, but he is not good enough. He needs to start looking for work, and he needs to learn how to catch a high ball, Watson was poor, but at least he was coming inside looking for the ball, and he was making some hard yards.

But Hogg and VDM deffo need to be dropped, VDM should be dropped for that trip alone, we need to bring in Adams and Williams, I would stick with Watson, but I would not be upset to see LRZ start.

AWJ is the captain, so people clamouring fir him to be dropped need to open their eyes, he really did lead by example, he was tackling everything, and he was smashing every ruck, at one point he was just covered in his own blood. Itoje is one of our best players, he needs to start as well.

As for the rest, you could make a good argument for all the positions, but none of them really did anything wrong, perhaps Vunipola as he struggled, and Murray as he his a little bit too slow at the base of the rucks, but for me, the biggest calls that need to be made, is to drop Hogg and VDM.

LordDowlais wrote:There is two possibly three players that need changing, and that is the back 3. All this nonsense about them not being given a chance is just that, nonsense.

Hogg was very erratic under the high ball, and he was creamed for SA's first try. VDM just doesn't do enough, sorry, but he is not good enough. He needs to start looking for work, and he needs to learn how to catch a high ball, Watson was poor, but at least he was coming inside looking for the ball, and he was making some hard yards.

But Hogg and VDM deffo need to be dropped, VDM should be dropped for that trip alone, we need to bring in Adams and Williams, I would stick with Watson, but I would not be upset to see LRZ start.

AWJ is the captain, so people clamouring fir him to be dropped need to open their eyes, he really did lead by example, he was tackling everything, and he was smashing every ruck, at one point he was just covered in his own blood. Itoje is one of our best players, he needs to start as well.

As for the rest, you could make a good argument for all the positions, but none of them really did anything wrong, perhaps Vunipola as he struggled, and Murray as he his a little bit too slow at the base of the rucks, but for me, the biggest calls that need to be made, is to drop Hogg and VDM.

Always been the problem that he's picked his captain and then needs to play him.

The Oracle wrote:Gatland is also one to give players another chance to redeem themselves. His theory being (I think) that those players who lost or put in a sub-par performance will be busting a gut to prove the critics wrong and will put in a 110% performance. So we might see few changes.

This has been my nagging thought.

LordDowlais wrote:There is two possibly three players that need changing, and that is the back 3. All this nonsense about them not being given a chance is just that, nonsense.

Hogg was very erratic under the high ball, and he was creamed for SA's first try. VDM just doesn't do enough, sorry, but he is not good enough. He needs to start looking for work, and he needs to learn how to catch a high ball, Watson was poor, but at least he was coming inside looking for the ball, and he was making some hard yards.

But Hogg and VDM deffo need to be dropped, VDM should be dropped for that trip alone, we need to bring in Adams and Williams, I would stick with Watson, but I would not be upset to see LRZ start.

AWJ is the captain, so people clamouring fir him to be dropped need to open their eyes, he really did lead by example, he was tackling everything, and he was smashing every ruck, at one point he was just covered in his own blood. Itoje is one of our best players, he needs to start as well.

As for the rest, you could make a good argument for all the positions, but none of them really did anything wrong, perhaps Vunipola as he struggled, and Murray as he his a little bit too slow at the base of the rucks, but for me, the biggest calls that need to be made, is to drop Hogg and VDM.

Agree with the back 3 thoughts LD, Watson may survive but he wasn't great.

AWJ will not be dropped, he was great in the 1st half, he'll improve in the 3rd test.

Think this is a pretty interesting thread on Twitter. It’s about 18 tweets worth, but I found it worth the read.

https://twitter.com/samlstandsup/status/1422242167632896000?s=21

RiscaGame wrote:Think this is a pretty interesting thread on Twitter. It’s about 18 tweets worth, but I found it worth the read.

https://twitter.com/samlstandsup/status/1422242167632896000?s=21

Thanks, not surprised at all on the kick stats. Murray box kicks were on point all day on Saturday yet the kick chase was quite poor for the most part. Think Liam Williams might have made a difference.

"The second half collapse happened once the Lions lost their scum and lineout platform."

Also agree on this, the replacement front row were quite disappointing. Lineout also could have been a bit better.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58064491

Erasmus facing a misconduct hearing. Good. Throw the book at him. Then retrieve the book and throw it at him again.

I think we are getting into the dangerous area of players are getting better and better by not playing

When Williams came on during the first test, he also missed catches.

The Murray kicks may have been in the right area, but they were so slow that the defence could flood the area.

Unless we change to point of attack at some point, it does not matter who you have on, it is an impossible job

Either we try and mix it up and actually use the strong runners (as well as tactical kicking), or we lose - simple

I would put Williams in instead of VDM and change Murray for Price. Keep Bigger, but allow him to play

(and have either Russel or Smith as a replacement on the bench)

Duty281 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58064491

Erasmus facing a misconduct hearing. Good. Throw the book at him. Then retrieve the book and throw it at him again.

They've warned Gatland as well but left it at that following his comments on the appointment of Jonker.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58064491

Erasmus facing a misconduct hearing. Good. Throw the book at him. Then retrieve the book and throw it at him again.

They've warned Gatland as well but left it at that following his comments on the appointment of Jonker.

Remember Mark Dodson got a 70,000 pound fine for suggesting a world cup game should be forfeited if it wasnt played.

R!skysports wrote:I think we are getting into the dangerous area of players are getting better and better by not playing

When Williams came on during the first test, he also missed catches.

The Murray kicks may have been in the right area, but they were so slow that the defence could flood the area.

Unless we change to point of attack at some point, it does not matter who you have on, it is an impossible job

Either we try and mix it up and actually use the strong runners (as well as tactical kicking), or we lose - simple

I would put Williams in instead of VDM and change Murray for Price. Keep Bigger, but allow him to play

(and have either Russel or Smith as a replacement on the bench)

I agree - according to some people here, having Liam Williams and Josh Adams would have comfortably won us the second test despite the fact that our main problems seems to have been a lack of possession and control. I'm afraid that's not true. I would lose VdM for Williams but I don't believe any of the back 3 options can offer what Hogg can. Anthony Watson was also surprisingly shaky despite himself playing a number of times at full back.

Unless we can vary our attack, we are sunk and that's the truth of it.

There's a big difference between coming on during the second half when the team has lost control and starting, would the Lions have won if Adams and Williams were in the back three? Probably not but I cannot see either of them performing as badly under the high ball as the starters did.

Sometimes i wonder if we, that is the posters on here, are as intelligent a collective as we like to think we are.

Dan Biggar is not a bad 10. there are aspects of the way he conducts himself on a rugby field which make me feel like I have put my genitals into a cheese grater...but he is NOT a bad fly half. However, last Saturday he ran the ball twice for a combined gain of 0 yards. Yes, 0 yards. None. Not one yard. He also made three passes all game. Obviously, in the grand Germanic tradition, he was only following orders. In fact if it had been NoArms starting I am sure the figures would have been almost identical. I think any criticism of numbers 11-15 has to be framed by the knowledge that they were being asked to play without the ball.

Also, catching the ball is often not as simple as ....well, catching a ball. If you know that the opposition 9&10 are going to put everything up in the air you flood the area they will kick to. This means lots of blockers slowing down the chasers and/or surrounding your receiver and making it as awkward as possible for the attacker to get to the ball. Similarly, a good attacking kick is as much about getting lots of people into the area where the ball is landing in order to hamper the receiver as much as possible. Not necessarily by jumping and competing for the ball: just standing between him and where the ball will land is often good enough. So, oftentimes the difference between your back three having a great game in terms of the aerial contest and having a shocker is what the rest of your team do.

I have said earlier that there needs to be a different plan of attack this week. If we change everything behind 10 and keep the same tactics we will lose. We will be beaten like a dozen eggs on Shrove Tuesday.

Somewhere in Gats' mind is the awful realisation that losing the series is not the worst thing that can happen. Graham Henry described the second Test as "a hard watch". If Saturday is another "hard watch" and we win Gats won't care. If it's another "hard watch" and we lose then it's a double loss for the Waikato Wonder. A series defeat and a coach who did nothing/learned nothing after the first two matches. Maybe that will spur him on to make the brave choices.

15. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales) #833

14. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836

13. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824

12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland) #837

11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841

10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821

9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843

1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842

2. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829

3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818

4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825

5. Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales) #761

6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England) #826

7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853

8. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

Replacements:

16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851

17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787

18. *Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814 – subject to outcome of disciplinary hearing.

19. Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852

20. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849

21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790

22. Finn Russell (Racing 92, Scotland) #835

23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822

Pretty harsh on Beirne and Watson but good team anyway. Kyle Sinkler stunk when he came on last Saturday hoping for better from him.

Good to see Williams, Adams and Aki in the mix.

Some bold changes there. Agree with a few, disagree with others. Won't amount to much if the Lions remain as one-dimensional as they were on Saturday.

Mish fans are going to lose it. (Faletau fans too)

To be honest I am surprised that Simmonds made it, as he's not actually any bigger than Watson and is therefore liable to suffer the same problems Watson did. Still Simmonds can play across the back row.

Watson has been really unlucky, one of the best players on tour. Beirne likewise.

Initial thoughts are, I consider Owens lucky to not be replaced by George and am a little surprised he is starting.

I had a feeling that Aki would start. I am not surprised Adams and Williams are in, it was just a question of which two of the back three missed out.

Keeping everything crossed this week, that Wyn Jones is able to play.

Aki and Henshaw makes sense although tough on Harris. DVDM a bit lucky to be retained.
Hopefully when Finn comes on he can bring the big winger into the game a bit more than we saw last week.
Wyn Jones better be fully fit, don't fancy Mako on the field for for than 25 minutes or so.
Will Simmonds have the platform to highlight his dynamic  game when he comes on?

Its a better looking team for me, with something on the bench to make a real impact this time.

Good to see a proper second row sub this time, it is a lot to ask any second row to go 80 mins three times in three weeks.

We have some real pace to come on with Simmonds and a real playmaker with Russell.

This is more like the team I would have liked to be playing from the first test, I just hope it is not to late.

If we can stay in the game, then maybe we have a chance.

I was speaking to a couple of my SA managers in the office in 2019 after the WC victory, they said they targeted the breakdown because they create 9-10% of tries from it. Looking at our potential Lions (I said it before the Lions squad was selected to get on the plane and I haven't deviated because we are still in the same position) we needed to win the breakdown (turnovers, rucks and especially the mauls) and the aerial, before we can create a platform for the backs.

We did ok in the 1st 40 mins but we weren't that brilliant as some seem to allude to. Reference the forwards we had a 100% tackle efficiency which was pleasing but its not going to win you the game, unfortunately Gats went with a defensive and offensive lock unit instead of right/left and whilst it was no surprise AWJ completed (the defensive) 15 tackles to Itojes 5, what was worrying he carried 8 times to Itojes 4 and made 7 metres to Itojes 2, Itoje was there to be dominant on the front foot, to compete at the breakdown and win the aerial battle.
So......insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
I'd doubt very much if Gats will change the engine room or BR or even bring in Hamish, whilst SA will probably strengthen their pack at least

Has Sinklair been cleared to play yet?

I thought the 3rd test was going to be picked at 2pm

BigGee wrote:Has Sinklair been cleared to play yet?

Not yet, still waiting to here the outcome of Syncleur’s hearing.

Love the Sheriff but seriously George is not even on the bench
The two best jackalling BRFs and the best in the 6Ns Beirne and Watson, the best BRF over the ball Beirne not even in the 23, we lost 8 TOs and won 2

OK. Poor selection but lets get behind them

Seems a little like panic to me.

Not sure what our plan is.

The pack is mostly the same and was comprehensively out played and out muscled last week.

Players not played together

DVM still in *unless they plan to use him

Watson not on the bench?

really has been a poor tour for us so far

Lets hope we can play and win

Bit of a disappointing team that. Not sure sticking with Lawes and Jones is going to suddenly change the impact at the breakdown. At least we've got a lock on the bench to come on and the hope of Russell. By then it may just have got to the stage of throw the ball and hope.

flyhalffactory wrote:I was speaking to a couple of my SA managers in the office in 2019 after the WC victory, they said they targeted the breakdown because they create 9-10% of tries from it. Looking at our potential Lions (I said it before the Lions squad was selected to get on the plane and I haven't deviated because we are still in the same position) we needed to win the breakdown (turnovers, rucks and especially the mauls) and the aerial, before we can create a platform for the backs.

We did ok in the 1st 40 mins but we weren't that brilliant as some seem to allude to. Reference the forwards we had a 100% tackle efficiency which was pleasing but its not going to win you the game, unfortunately Gats went with a defensive and offensive lock unit instead of right/left and whilst it was no surprise AWJ completed (the defensive) 15 tackles to Itojes 5, what was worrying he carried 8 times to Itojes 4 and made 7 metres to Itojes 2, Itoje was there to be dominant on the front foot, to compete at the breakdown and win the aerial battle.
So......insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
I'd doubt very much if Gats will change the engine room or BR or even bring in Hamish, whilst SA will probably strengthen their pack at least

Surprised you didn't mention that Itoje didn't make a single break down the left wing and failed to take any penalty kicks.

I don't have a clue which way we want to play, so it's hard to have any strong objections to the squad.

This is the first time we've had an out-and-out second row on the bench. Assuming no injuries, that means Beard coming on for AWJ or Itoje. Rather than go off, Itoje could switch to the flank, which Lawes will surely have noticed.

Alternatively, we could see something weird, where Itoje switches to seven, in an attempt to put have four large lumps on the field for 10 minutes or so. Perhaps to try and stabilize things if our set piece is a shambles.

Having both Russell, Simmons and Daly on the bench smacks a bit of hoping for a miracle "try from the end of the world" if we are behind.

I would have picked Beirne ahead of Lawes too

Rugby Fan wrote:I don't have a clue which way we want to play, so it's hard to have any strong objections to the squad.

This is the first time we've had an out-and-out second row on the bench. Assuming no injuries, that means Beard coming on for AWJ or Itoje. Rather than go off, Itoje could switch to the flank, which Lawes will surely have noticed.

Alternatively, we could see something weird, where Itoje switches to seven, in an attempt to put have four large lumps on the field for 10 minutes or so. Perhaps to try and stabilize things if our set piece is a shambles.

Having both Russell, Simmons and Daly on the bench smacks a bit of hoping for a miracle "try from the end of the world" if we are behind.

Almost certainly I'd expect Itoje to go to 6 if/when Beard comes on.

Strong 12. Big winger. We are going full on Warrenball, this weekend.

Sinckler's hearing started at 9 and still no news. Mad.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Bit of a disappointing team that. Not sure sticking with Lawes and Jones is going to suddenly change the impact at the breakdown. At least we've got a lock on the bench to come on and the hope of Russell. By then it may just have got to the stage of throw the ball and hope.

I agree, but AWJ is not selected there to compete at the breakdown primarily he is there to defend the line, not dominate the set-piece and loose.

My worry is if PSDT and some of the recent additions are fit to get in the SA 23, I feel that SA wasn't 100% match fit and coming into the 3rd test they are going to me bang on the money

I am glad we’ve selected a captain who isn’t expected to do anything in the set piece or the loose

RiscaGame wrote:Strong 12. Big winger. We are going full on Warrenball, this weekend.

Not really a surprise. One of the most unaspiring coaches around, who Warrenball is the only tactic he has. Works against teams that he can physically bully, but struggles with any other team. Sadly this is what we knew would happen, but we were given hope when he selected the first test side to have some pace, only to have them play vertical warrenball. Then the second test, slowed it down even more and after two of the worst matches the Lions have had (taking 2005 away), we are now in panic mode. Well lets hope he allows the players to play some rugby and we might have a chance....

RiscaGame wrote:Sinckler's hearing started at 9 and still no news. Mad.

Takes a while to go through it all doesn't it. As long as he denies anything can't see anything coming of it as there's nothing to see on the video.

RiscaGame wrote:Sinckler's hearing started at 9 and still no news. Mad.

Fagerson coming into the 23 would make an impact for the Lions if Sinkler does miss out. I’m sure he’ll bring his offloading game and be desperate to prove a point after being left out so far.

BamBam wrote:I am glad we’ve selected a captain who isn’t expected to do anything in the set piece or the loose

At least he's making sure the game doesn't go south through the shear force of his leadership.

bsando wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Sinckler's hearing started at 9 and still no news. Mad.

Fagerson coming into the 23 would make an impact for the Lions if Sinkler does miss out. I’m sure he’ll bring his offloading game and be desperate to prove a point after being left out so far.

I do like Ferguson.

BamBam wrote:I am glad we’ve selected a captain who isn’t expected to do anything in the set piece or the loose

Well he is there to manage the ref....oh, that went well at the weekend lol

Although I think he still is a class player

Springbok team to face the British & Irish Lions:
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 64 caps, 60 pts (12t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse) – 16 caps, 40 pts (8t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 17 caps, 20 pts (4t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Munster) – 49 caps, 30 pts (6t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 16 caps, 75 pts (15t)
10 – Handré Pollard (vice-captain, Montpellier) – 51 caps, 494 pts (6t, 79c, 98p, 4d)
9 – Cobus Reinach (Montpellier) – 15 caps, 35pts (7t)
8 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 2 caps, 0 pts
7 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 42 caps, 5pts (1t)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 53 caps, 30 pts (6t)
5 – Lood de Jager (Sale Sharks) – 47 caps, 25 pts (5t)
4 – Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) – 88 caps, 15 pts (3t)
3 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 41 caps, 5pts (1t)
2 – Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers) – 39 caps, 40 pts (8t)
1 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 50 caps, 5pts (1t)

Replacements:
16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 36 caps, 30 pts (6t)
17 – Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) – 45 caps, 5 pts (1t)
18 – Vincent Koch (Saracens) – 22 caps, 0 pts
19 – Marco van Staden (Vodacom Bulls) – 4 caps, 0 pts
20 – Kwagga Smith (Yamaha Júbilo) – 9 caps, 5 pts (1t)
21 – Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers) – 13 caps, 25 pts (5t)
22 – Morné Steyn (Vodacom Bulls) – 66 caps, 736 points (8t, 102c, 154p, 10d)
23 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 9 caps, 5pts (1t)

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Sinckler's hearing started at 9 and still no news. Mad.

Takes a while to go through it all doesn't it. As long as he denies anything can't see anything coming of it as there's nothing to see on the video.

Someone must have seen something, or else he would not have been cited in the first place. They have access to a lot more angels than we have.

I would be looking to see if there is any physical evidence of a bite as a starting point.

This will be a very nervous time for Sinklair, not only potentially missing the test, but his whole reputation on the line!

Sorry am I reading that right? Mostert at 7?

BigGee wrote:...They have access to a lot more angels than we have...

Not sure how this helps

Any more from the accusation against Hogg?

BigGee wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Sinckler's hearing started at 9 and still no news. Mad.

Takes a while to go through it all doesn't it. As long as he denies anything can't see anything coming of it as there's nothing to see on the video.

Someone must have seen something, or else he would not have been cited in the first place. They have access to a lot more angels than we have.

I would be looking to see if there is any physical evidence of a bite as a starting point.

This will be a very nervous time for Sinklair, not only potentially missing the test, but his whole reputation on the line!

Denial is always the best option no matter what. The citing officers must have been searching ages as they completely forgot to check the guys in green.

No PSDT, Faf or Vermulean for the Boks, who have also gone for a 5:3 bench this time.

Steyn brought in in case they need a game closer out themselves!